0:00

This is interesting. Things that you thought

0:02

you wanted to do that haven't happened.

0:05

I haven't booked skydiving. I

0:09

haven't booked skydiving either, but that wasn't on

0:11

my list. Welcome

0:16

to Art Juice. This is honest,

0:18

generous and humorous conversations that will

0:20

feed your creative soul and get

0:22

you thinking with me, Alice Sheridan.

0:25

And me, Louise Fletcher. Today

0:27

might be a little bit of a rustling

0:30

of paper episode.

0:33

Yes, the post-it notes are still all over my

0:35

desk. That is something I still need

0:38

to be working on. But we thought

0:40

we would have a little bit of a chat

0:42

about reflecting back on

0:44

the year, not in

0:46

terms of super planning-y for next

0:48

year, but just

0:51

in terms of how things have

0:53

gone, looking back, what

0:55

we're noticing when we take time

0:58

to look at it, rather than

1:00

perhaps how we might immediately imagine

1:02

it. But before we get

1:04

into that, what have you been doing this week?

1:07

I've been prepping, and

1:10

this isn't self-promotion because by

1:12

the time this comes out, it'll be over, but

1:14

I've been prepping for a little

1:17

flash studio sale. I started

1:19

to have a clear out of my studio

1:21

and realized there's a lot of things I've

1:23

been hanging on to, little bits and

1:25

pieces from different projects that

1:27

I haven't let go of, nothing, you

1:29

know, just bits on paper. And I

1:32

thought, am I going to put a

1:34

lot of things on a bonfire? And

1:36

I thought, am I going to put

1:38

these on the bonfire? I still like

1:40

them. Yeah. So I decided I have

1:42

a little studio sale pre-Christmas. I never

1:44

get around to giving people an opportunity

1:46

to buy something before Christmas. I'm never

1:48

organized enough. And then I thought,

1:50

does it have to be a big deal or can I

1:52

just, you know, I can do this quickly.

1:55

So I don't have millions of

1:57

things. I have about 32. I

2:00

think little paper pieces or pieces on

2:02

paper that will be bargains. And then

2:04

in some kind

2:07

of miracle in the last few weeks, my

2:09

creativity has all come back and

2:11

I finished six paintings. And I

2:13

thought, they're not a

2:16

big series, they don't have a great big

2:18

concept behind them. I just

2:20

really love them. And instead of my

2:22

usual big launch, I just

2:24

think I'm going to put them on my website at

2:26

the same time and see if anyone wants them. So

2:30

I've been working on that. So of course

2:32

you think it's not a lot, but then

2:34

you've got to photograph everything. And in the

2:36

case of the paintings, you've got to

2:39

paint the edges and varnish them and find frames

2:41

for them and all of that kind of thing.

2:43

So I've been doing that, but I'm quite enjoying

2:45

that because it's the clearing

2:47

out feeling. And the reason I think

2:49

it's so important to get rid of

2:52

these little pieces is, and

2:54

so I'm going to either sell them or burn them. Like

2:56

if they don't go in a week, they go in. That's

2:58

it. Because I feel like

3:01

I need the mental space to

3:03

just say, everything's new, whatever I

3:05

do next. And the stuff I'm hanging on to

3:07

needs to go. Feels

3:09

a bit like shedding the skin. So that's

3:11

mainly what I've been up to this week.

3:14

I love that. I love doing

3:16

it at the right time. Like

3:18

the inspiration has struck for doing

3:20

it. And it just feels like,

3:24

why couldn't I just do this? We

3:26

get so up in our own heads

3:28

about making these things bigger

3:30

than they have to. Yes.

3:34

Like, you

3:36

know, nobody might want these things. And

3:38

then I'll just put them on fire. It

3:41

doesn't matter. But we do. We get all time.

3:43

And then I've got to do a sales page.

3:45

And then I'll have to do, do I? Or

3:47

can I just, I've done a couple of social media

3:49

posts and I'll put it in my newsletter on Sunday

3:52

and that's it. And

3:54

I think the reality is that there

3:56

is a certain amount of work of

3:58

putting that stuff together. but

4:01

even if you weren't being as definitive

4:03

as, okay, even if they don't sell,

4:05

I'll put them on the

4:07

bonfire. The work is

4:10

done at that point for getting them up

4:12

and out, and I often think that that

4:15

hurdle, that, oh,

4:17

I've got to do everything and get it together,

4:19

and the fact that you're doing it when

4:21

it feels the right time for you is what gets

4:24

you through that. It's a little bit like what we were talking about

4:26

last week, whereas I'm in the opposite. I'm

4:28

like, I've got things to sell. I

4:31

can't be bothered to put the page

4:33

together. I don't want to deal with

4:35

couriers before Christmas. I'm

4:38

kind of in the opposite space, and that's all right

4:41

too. Yeah, exactly, because I

4:43

haven't been doing... I mean, since,

4:45

I think it was about April that I

4:47

put my last paintings up for sale, and

4:50

since then I've had very

4:53

little inspiration to paint and certainly none

4:55

to put anything up for sale. And

4:58

what I like about doing it this way, just putting

5:00

a few up, is it's

5:02

very easy to vanish and paint edges on

5:04

six, but when

5:06

you've done 20, it's monumental.

5:09

It's all 40 in

5:11

the case of that exhibition last year. That's

5:13

just a lot of work. So I

5:17

might not go the collection route for

5:19

a while. I might just do this. Like,

5:21

I've got some things you want it. If you don't, it's

5:24

fine, but here it is. There's

5:26

something that's so lovely in that, that I've been

5:28

thinking a lot about this week.

5:31

I've come up with a three little thing, which I

5:33

might not talk about today, but one

5:36

of the middle parts of that is

5:39

appreciation and not in the

5:41

sense of like a gratitude

5:43

journal or anything like that,

5:46

but the appreciation for

5:48

yourself of where you

5:51

are, what stage you're at, what

5:53

capacity you have, and whatever you're

5:55

doing being okay for you right

5:57

now. Appreciation of

5:59

what else you have. is going on

6:01

in your life or an appreciation of

6:03

how much energy you feel you have

6:06

or where your interest or your desires

6:08

lay. And I think it's a

6:10

part that's so often missing between

6:13

the desire for what we want to

6:15

do, like the intentions and the action

6:18

taking go get it do it thing.

6:22

And it just fell into place this week as

6:24

a like real middle gap that is

6:26

so important as

6:29

a stage between those two things. And

6:32

I love it because what you're talking about is

6:36

really kind of embracing.

6:39

Yeah that's a good

6:41

point and you've been talking about human

6:43

design in your membership club

6:46

and in human design my

6:48

manifesto profile is

6:51

very much this thing of creative

6:53

urges and if you don't have a

6:55

creative urge don't bother which I really

6:57

struggle with. I try

6:59

and push myself to do things

7:02

even though but when I get that urge

7:04

and I know this is the same for

7:06

everyone I just think it's more exaggerated maybe

7:08

in certain profiles but for me if

7:10

I get the creative urge it couldn't be easier.

7:13

Yeah it's like oh god because I said to

7:15

someone oh it'll take me a few days to

7:17

photograph all this work and get it up on

7:19

the website. It was jump high that afternoon

7:21

because I was in the mode of doing

7:23

that way if I'm not

7:25

it's just a slug. So

7:28

yeah it's a bit annoying having to wait

7:30

though because you're sitting around twiddling

7:32

your thumbs like when am I going

7:34

to get a creative urge? How about

7:36

you what's your week been like? Well

7:39

my urge has not been creative so

7:42

much as I said

7:44

to my daughter it's a little bit like putting

7:47

makeup on an unwashed face right

7:50

I don't want to get any of the

7:52

Christmas decorations out until I feel the house

7:55

is clean and sorted underneath

7:57

so that has been a great

7:59

time. two of

8:01

us, and I have to say it

8:04

has been brilliant with two

8:06

of us having that kind of

8:08

rebound energy and discussion.

8:10

What we have been doing is we started

8:12

to sort of clear out a bit of

8:15

one of the cupboards, which

8:17

has swiftly moved to almost every

8:19

single cupboard and room in the

8:21

house. It's

8:24

been, I would say it's been

8:26

a mammoth undertaking, but it hasn't

8:28

felt like that. It's felt like,

8:30

oh, this feels so good. And

8:32

it's about this face clearing. I give you a

8:34

really silly example of bottom of a cupboard that's

8:36

got, you know, there's sort of things in the

8:38

kitchen that you don't use that often. So they

8:41

go in a cupboard that's a bit out of

8:43

the way. And there's little box

8:45

of stack of boxes, electric candles, none

8:47

of which worked. And I'm like, what

8:49

are these here for? They've

8:52

been there for 10 years since my

8:54

40th birthday party. They

8:56

were one of those things that you thought, I'm not

8:58

throwing these away. I don't know where to put them.

9:00

I'll just put them in here. Yeah.

9:02

And the lovely thing of finding them

9:05

and going, okay, they don't work. This is a

9:07

no brainer. They can, they can go. But when

9:10

you've found that and realized that you've

9:12

given that not mental space

9:15

in this case, but house

9:17

space, storage space, which

9:19

has stopped space

9:21

for other things coming in or actually

9:23

just enjoying the space, when you come

9:25

across something else and you think, what

9:27

about this? Should we save this

9:30

for another time? Like there was a quite

9:32

a useful, like little strapping roll thing for

9:34

a picnic blanket. And my husband said, well,

9:36

what about this? Are we keeping this? I

9:39

was like, oh, you could use that for

9:41

a tube. Like, yeah, you're carrying a

9:43

roll of straps on your shoulder. No,

9:46

no, no, no. Where is it going to go? Where I'll

9:48

think of it at the time. Am I going to

9:50

go to get it? No, no, no, no, no. It was

9:52

part of a freebie thing. It can go out, be

9:55

gone. So we

9:57

have been doing all of that. I

10:00

love it. I love clearing out. When we left

10:02

our house in New York, it was five bedroom

10:04

house for two of us. It was way bigger

10:06

than we needed. And several rooms were just full

10:08

of junk. And I

10:11

didn't realize until we cleared them out

10:13

to move and then

10:15

got them decorated and sorted out, I

10:17

didn't realize how much weight I

10:19

was carrying every time I walked past that

10:21

closed door that I knew in that room

10:23

was boxes of old video tapes or whatever

10:26

nonsense we had. It

10:28

weighs you down mentally. And when you

10:30

clear that cupboard or that room or

10:32

whatever, you just

10:34

feel so much better and

10:37

your house feels lighter. And I love that

10:39

you're doing that before you put the decorations

10:41

up because it'll feel so much nicer. They're

10:43

not hiding. You don't have to put things

10:45

up on that cupboard door to hide what

10:47

you know is behind it. It's

10:50

funny too, because we have discovered

10:52

in the process, like there's a cupboard

10:54

that we have on the landing and it has

10:56

sheets and stuff in, one of those I think

10:59

is entirely empty from a previous time

11:01

I did it. But I'm so

11:03

bad with cupboards. I'm so bad with

11:05

cupboards. Once the doors

11:07

closed, I literally forget what is inside them.

11:11

Sometimes I have to label them like on

11:13

the, oh, it's

11:15

not a good thing. But we also

11:17

thought, oh, it'd be nice to get all

11:19

the photos out. And we knew that there

11:22

was a box of photos somewhere. And

11:24

where I was like crawling in like the, we

11:27

don't have a full loft, but we've got loft spaces

11:29

in the top rooms. Crawling

11:31

through there to try and find them, try and find them,

11:34

try and find them. Went into one

11:36

of the cupboards, found a stack of

11:38

my old paintings from about 10 years

11:41

ago. They are going

11:43

on the bonfire. Oh, but you've

11:45

got to show us something. No. Oh,

11:47

that'd be so interesting. No, it really

11:50

wouldn't. I'll get mine. I

11:55

mean, you're the reason. It's a cramp

11:57

off. I have got like the

11:59

sun. that I have kept but like these

12:01

could just these can just go and it's interesting

12:03

because obviously at the time I put them in

12:06

the cupboard I felt they can't

12:08

go yet I need to keep these no I

12:10

don't feel that anymore so I think that's what's

12:12

interesting about this process is that you like you

12:14

feel that it's it's changed and

12:17

it's different so yeah that's what I've been

12:19

doing. Okay

12:25

so talking about clearing mental

12:27

space I think doing

12:29

this like going back over your year

12:31

I know we're a bit early because

12:33

it's November still well by

12:36

the time this comes out it'll be December

12:38

but we're not doing another podcast after

12:41

this episode until the new year we're

12:43

having a break yay so we thought

12:47

this would be a good time to talk

12:49

about this but I find this something similar

12:51

it's just struck me in going back over

12:53

the year and thinking about it it's like clearing

12:56

out the stuff in my

12:58

head and it makes space for whatever is

13:00

gonna come next yeah but I

13:02

said to you when we said you said

13:04

will we talk about planning and I said don't

13:06

you know we said no we're not gonna do

13:09

that and I said but just seems like what's

13:11

the point anyway because in recent years for

13:13

both of us I think life

13:15

has like thrown things at you and

13:17

you bet the best laid plans as

13:19

many people know listening but

13:22

I think there's still something to have in

13:25

a plan which I

13:27

did at the beginning of the year that

13:29

gives you focus so that when crap

13:32

comes up and things happen you can't

13:34

work for a while or you can't work

13:36

in the same way at least you have something

13:39

to come back to you don't get completely I

13:41

think of it a bit like a boat on

13:43

the ocean that gets completely swept away or it

13:47

has an anchor and even though the

13:49

storm comes it's still anchored somewhere

13:51

so I do think there's

13:53

a point to having a loose plan at

13:55

the beginning of the year but definitely this

13:57

year my plan was a lot looser than

14:00

it's been in prior years. Yeah,

14:02

so I have my little

14:05

notebooks, which I call my annual

14:07

planner, and I've

14:10

done that now for 2015. So

14:14

there's a

14:16

nice little stack of them, and it is

14:18

interesting. I have to say there's

14:20

some good stuff in, there's some junk in

14:22

some of these pages, but there is some

14:24

good stuff in here too, often just as

14:27

a place to leave things. But when I

14:29

went to get it for this year, I

14:31

have been using it differently this year. I

14:34

didn't want at the start

14:36

of the year to feel like I

14:38

had everything fixed and in place. And

14:41

as a result, I haven't been using

14:43

it so much as a calendar

14:47

planner. It's

14:49

more been, it's had an outline of

14:51

the year at the beginning, and then it's just been

14:54

a notebook for ideas, but more

14:56

of the project ideas and things like

14:58

that have been digital and online. And

15:00

as a result, I haven't felt as

15:02

connected with this book. It

15:04

hasn't felt as much part of my

15:06

life or a place that I

15:09

go to to work things out. And in some

15:11

sense, I'm actually quite interested to see that it

15:13

is full, because I thought I would pick

15:16

it up again and say actually only half

15:18

the pages are full. I

15:21

started the year differently. I started trying to

15:23

use a different system, not the system that

15:25

has worked for me. And as a result,

15:27

I didn't stick with it. Right. That's interesting,

15:30

isn't it? It's worth trying though. It's worth

15:32

trying to see if it's better than what

15:34

you've been doing. Yeah, I haven't bought my

15:36

one for next year, partly because I'm thinking

15:39

about maybe going bigger, maybe

15:41

going to an A4 book

15:43

so that I have more space

15:45

to write ideas out. I've been feeling

15:47

that when I've been writing ideas, I've

15:49

been doing them on... We've got a

15:51

whole bunch of big A4 lined notebooks

15:54

that are left over from the children

15:56

at school. I've been using those because

15:59

they feel like... little bit more expansive and I just

16:01

wonder if I need a bigger page to

16:05

do for next year. But yeah, no

16:07

this year in a way I didn't

16:09

set as many intentions, it was much

16:11

looser. I wanted to be open to

16:14

doing other things that weren't art

16:16

related which have happened. It's

16:18

been interesting to look

16:21

and develop in different directions. So

16:24

I've done NLP training, EFT, I've

16:26

done this business

16:28

certification that included some energy

16:30

work and

16:33

somehow in amongst that I've done open studios

16:36

just and an art fair. What

16:40

I find interesting about mine is

16:42

it's a lot, I'd written a lot less than I

16:44

usually do in terms of goals

16:47

for the year. I was just

16:49

looking at, I haven't looked at it until we

16:51

sat down to do this but there

16:53

were basically three business things I'd written

16:55

down which was increase the price of

16:58

my course for this year to reflect

17:00

its true value. I always felt it

17:02

should be 9.95 and I never charged

17:04

that and this year I finally got

17:07

it to that level so I did

17:09

do that. Yeah, make a

17:11

new series of abstract work which

17:14

sells out. So I did

17:16

make the series, I was left

17:18

with one piece so it was but it was

17:20

only a small series, it was about 12 paintings,

17:23

no maybe 16 and that was

17:25

at the beginning of the year about April. So

17:28

I did do that and grow my

17:30

mailing list in preparation for my course

17:33

launch. I did do that, I stuck to

17:35

everything I said I would do on that

17:37

but then I have this fourth block which

17:39

is it's freedom and peace

17:42

I've written and then I

17:44

gave myself some things to do to make

17:46

some practical things. For

17:49

example, I'm not going to give you everything because some

17:51

are a bit personal but I've got down, pay

17:54

more attention to health,

17:57

I've got down, redesign our tribe

17:59

to be. less

18:01

heavy workload for me. I've got move?

18:03

I actually decided I decided

18:10

not to move. I was going to

18:12

move areas and when my mum got ill

18:14

I just decided that's out but at least

18:17

I was in progress with that. Yeah but

18:19

you were thinking that that might be a

18:21

whole different area of the country but that

18:24

actually is in progress in a different way.

18:26

Hopefully in progress. Yeah. And then I wrote

18:29

more trips away and that

18:32

is something I'm just beginning towards the

18:34

end of the year to actually start

18:36

doing. But what I find

18:38

interesting is, and we talked

18:40

about this before about making space

18:42

for painting, my absolute commitment to

18:45

concrete goals that are about work.

18:47

I do them. If I write them in

18:49

here I do them and then my complete

18:52

lack of commitment to anything that's

18:54

about my own happiness and

18:56

ease because there's other things on

18:58

this list that didn't happen as well.

19:00

And my goal for next year is

19:03

to really make maybe in this

19:06

book the only things I am

19:08

allowed to write as objectives will

19:10

be in this area of freedom

19:12

and peace. Maybe I'm not going to let myself

19:14

write on this side, on these

19:16

work sides. I'll include painting

19:18

in the freedom and peace. I'll include

19:21

making paintings in there but it's

19:24

just interesting how I cannot you know

19:26

come every time I think you should

19:28

go for a walk for health

19:30

reasons you should go for a walk I think

19:32

but I could get a

19:34

bit of painting time in but I could

19:36

you know there's always something else that I

19:38

would rather do and my short-term

19:42

preference takes over from my longer

19:44

term knowledge of what's good for

19:46

me. That's kind of story in my life.

19:49

I'd rather paint I don't get

19:51

enough time for that at the moment I'll do

19:53

that instead of going for that walk because the whole

19:56

time I'm on that walk I'll be thinking I should

19:58

be painting. So I did start trying dance

20:00

while I'm painting. So I'm trying to

20:02

get both things. I'm trying to move while I'm doing

20:04

it. By

20:06

me. Yeah so I feel

20:09

like if I look at this, I

20:11

did have a successful business year.

20:13

I had a less successful art year

20:15

in the sense that I didn't make

20:18

very much. Completely lost my inspiration after

20:20

that series in April until

20:22

just very recently when it's suddenly come

20:24

back. And I was quite stressed about

20:26

that the whole time it was happening, which

20:29

probably made it worse. Like why why am I

20:31

not wanting to paint? What some days I didn't

20:33

even want to paint and I always want to

20:35

paint. Yeah that's quite different for you isn't it?

20:38

I'm quite yes. I didn't want to. It's like

20:42

and I thought maybe I saw what you

20:44

said a few months ago. Maybe I'm

20:46

just not. I was talking to

20:49

someone who said to me, well what

20:51

would you say if I said to you you're

20:53

not an artist? And now like my whole

20:55

body went into this horrible... No!

20:59

No I don't want you to say that to me. And I

21:02

did feel quite stressed about it and yet it

21:04

was just one of those things

21:06

that comes and goes because now I'm filled with

21:08

new ideas and excitement and I can't wait to

21:10

be able to get

21:13

on with some of them and I'm making

21:15

space for that. So that big lull in

21:17

the middle of the year was just a

21:19

lull. It wasn't anything to worry about. But

21:22

it's what we make it mean isn't it? I

21:25

mean I've had that a little bit this year

21:27

with the knot painting and thinking about it now,

21:30

actually I haven't actually checked

21:33

my list, my inventory

21:35

list. I think

21:37

by the end of the year I actually

21:39

have made quite a lot of paintings but

21:42

it's felt like it's felt like

21:44

not as much... I

21:46

don't want to use the word productive. It's

21:49

more, it's felt much gentler

21:51

in terms of the painting which

21:53

has been a bit frustrating at times

21:55

and I've certainly had moments that we've spoken about

21:57

on here where I even felt like we were...

22:00

if I'm not painting, if I'm not interested in doing

22:02

it, am I even an artist? And

22:05

also, I feel like this

22:07

year has been one

22:09

of the years where I have learnt

22:12

most about what's

22:14

important to me in

22:16

the paintings that I do and

22:19

how I like to achieve that. That

22:22

is a big win. Actually that's true

22:24

for me too. I feel

22:26

like, do you feel like, the way it

22:29

feels to me is like the cogs were

22:31

moving but I couldn't, they weren't

22:33

making any sense. I

22:35

wasn't even aware of thinking about what do I

22:37

want, what do I want, but it was happening

22:39

and then all of a sudden it's clicked into

22:41

place so I feel like I can

22:44

now express what it is I'm

22:46

trying to do and why. And

22:48

from that has come a couple

22:51

of ideas for processes that

22:54

link into what I want to achieve,

22:57

new processes. So

23:00

it all kind of fit together without me consciously

23:04

sitting there trying to make

23:06

it fit together which is

23:08

interesting. Yeah. So that rest period is

23:10

maybe what we need to have that happen. Sorry

23:12

I talked over you. I

23:15

think it's perhaps, maybe it's not so much

23:17

of the rest period as knowing

23:21

that sometimes these things just take time. Like

23:23

we're talking about this at the end of

23:25

December, completely arbitrary in a way. Like it's

23:28

not even the end of winter, it's the

23:30

middle of winter. If you're

23:32

doing it seasonally, winter doesn't finish

23:34

until when? I don't know but

23:37

it certainly doesn't feel like winter's

23:39

finished until probably the end of

23:41

February still feels winter. Why are

23:44

we talking about this now because we've got

23:46

this complete false system

23:48

of January to December

23:50

when it's all a cycle anyway? And

23:53

I think so often we

23:55

put slightly funny

23:57

boundaries or edges around some

24:00

that we think should take a certain amount

24:02

of time and it takes

24:04

longer than that and it's no surprise to

24:06

me and I've certainly noticed this

24:08

before as well that you

24:11

might have something in

24:13

your ideas that you want to do

24:15

in January and it only actually does

24:18

happen in December. It

24:20

takes all that time and I

24:23

don't know if it's helpful or not but it

24:25

takes all that time of having it there as

24:27

a thing. This is a thing I wanted to

24:29

do, it hasn't happened. This is a thing. Why

24:31

is this not happening? Oh, actually look,

24:33

certainly something is happening and

24:35

what I'm interested in

24:38

now is, is that

24:41

part of it, the process of

24:43

sitting down at any point and

24:46

saying this is what I would like, this is

24:48

what I'm interested in pursuing, this is what I'm

24:51

exploring as an

24:53

intention, is that necessary?

24:56

And my instinct to feel is that it

24:58

is, it's how we deal with the

25:00

patch in the middle when we're not

25:02

doing it. And again, it goes

25:04

back to my thing about appreciation of capacity.

25:06

I don't know how

25:09

helpful it is to have

25:11

those things as a list at the beginning

25:13

of the year which you feel like you're

25:15

not getting to all year. But

25:18

that's a little bit of a mindset switch.

25:20

It's like what's

25:22

on your radar and

25:25

what are you working on now and then it goes

25:27

back to your anchor idea and it's

25:29

okay if it's taking a little bit of time because I

25:31

can always come back to it. But

25:33

I think without doing that intentional

25:36

awareness type of

25:38

setting then it really feels drifty.

25:41

Yeah, I agree. I agree.

25:44

And that period

25:46

of not knowing, some I've said to

25:48

you before, I just want

25:50

to make raw and authentic paintings and

25:52

you said what does authentic mean? And

25:54

I was like, I can't

25:57

tell you, but I'd know it if it's

25:59

not authentic. I was doing it and I'm not doing it.

26:02

And so I had that whole period where I

26:05

couldn't put into words what that is, just like

26:07

you've just described. And now

26:09

I can say, and I can

26:11

say why, but I didn't

26:14

sit there and analyse it today and

26:16

write it all out. It just has

26:18

somehow clicked into place for me recently.

26:20

Oh right,

26:24

I know why now. So now I can talk about

26:26

it to other people when

26:28

it comes time to do that. Now, and

26:30

now as I say, once you get

26:33

clear on all

26:36

the why, it also

26:38

guides the process for me anyway

26:40

to say, right, so

26:42

what process would get

26:44

that result? What different

26:48

to what I'm doing now and what parts of

26:50

what I'm doing now need to stay and what parts

26:52

need to go, etc, etc. So

26:55

it becomes very practical, but I think what

26:57

a lot of people try and do is

26:59

rush to the practical, you know, get

27:02

my studio ready, right, I'm going to do this,

27:04

I'm going to do that. Maybe that's what I

27:06

was doing. And you're not there

27:08

yet. So you can't start doing the thing

27:10

because it's not fully. If I can't explain

27:12

to you what I mean, how

27:15

can I make paintings with that clarity? I

27:17

can't. So they're drifty. And

27:19

so what tends to happen for

27:21

me with a drifty period is

27:24

everything I make is very

27:26

clearly drifty. You

27:29

could look at it and you could say, well, you

27:31

have no, what are you actually doing

27:33

in this painting? Well, I don't know, to

27:36

be honest. And the I don't know comes

27:39

right out at you. Like there's no, there's

27:41

nothing to it. So it's

27:43

just about understanding then that it's

27:46

not a rest. It's what is

27:48

it? As I was saying,

27:50

but it's not a rest. It's like

27:52

the opposite of a rush. It's a

27:54

clicking into place happening when you're not

27:57

aware of it happening. You're not aware

27:59

of it happening. of it until it... Oh,

28:02

that's it. Or certainly for me

28:04

anyway, it comes as one like flash, not

28:07

as a series of little realisations. Maybe

28:10

that's different for other people. I think

28:12

there's so much of what we do

28:14

that we talked before about making a

28:16

painting and about this dance for

28:19

me anyway between the analytical understanding

28:21

side of it and the

28:24

painting and exploring and being in flow

28:26

and not being short and the ability

28:28

to move quickly in and out of

28:30

both of those states. And I really

28:33

feel that almost as a physical dance.

28:35

And I think

28:37

it's very much the same with

28:39

what we're talking about is how you

28:41

move through life, right? And

28:44

there are some things that are

28:46

conscious decisions and there are some

28:48

things that actually happen subconsciously. You're

28:50

working on them, things float up

28:53

to the surface. And

28:55

while you can't always be totally

28:57

knowledgeable about that, I think you

28:59

can learn to

29:01

be more aware of dipping

29:04

in, like poking down below

29:06

the surface, stirring things up

29:08

and seeing what lifts up

29:10

so that it becomes part of the way

29:12

that you choose to operate

29:15

or respond or react. How

29:18

you make things happen in your life, what

29:20

decisions you say yes to or no to,

29:22

like we can do that subconsciously. You can

29:25

do that on autopilot or you can do

29:27

that with a sense of awareness. And

29:30

some of that is about dropping things. Some of

29:32

that is about recognizing, yeah, I put way too

29:34

many things on my to-do list. I give myself

29:37

far too much to do. I like to keep

29:39

myself busy and also I

29:41

like to have periods of rest.

29:43

So how do I manage those

29:45

two spaces together? Like there's no end,

29:47

there's no December is the end. No,

29:50

it feels like it to me

29:52

feels like tying up the ear

29:54

with a bow and starting

29:56

afresh. And when I lived

29:58

in America every... New Year's Eve,

30:00

we would go to Central Park in

30:03

New York and watch fireworks and that

30:05

felt like right, done,

30:08

on with the next year and sometimes I'd be

30:10

standing there crying because it'd been a horrible year

30:12

and I didn't know what the next year was

30:14

going to be. Sometimes I'd be really happy and

30:17

excited but I always felt like yeah that's

30:19

the end of it but I know for

30:21

you I think you go much more seasonally in

30:23

your feeling so you feel like spring is the

30:26

beginning and I bet lots of people do.

30:28

Well September often this year not so much

30:31

because I just do what I'm told. See

30:34

September always feels like dying time

30:36

to me when people say I

30:38

love fall I'm like how can

30:40

you when it's just everything's dying

30:42

and now winter's coming and it

30:45

feels I always feel like

30:47

that's an ending maybe that's my natural

30:49

ending when the leaves start falling.

30:52

That'd be interesting Spring definitely

30:54

feels like my beginning I'm sure it's

30:56

just for everyone. Spring feels you

30:59

can't help it with everything being born but

31:01

yeah I do like January and I like

31:04

the fact that the new year gives us

31:06

something in the UK

31:08

January and February I'm miserable so it

31:10

gives us something to at least be

31:13

looking forward to if we're thinking of it as

31:15

a new year. Yeah we got married

31:17

in January for that reason just basically

31:20

so we could have a big party

31:22

in January but the theory was that

31:24

you know every year it'd be a

31:26

good excuse for another party or

31:28

a celebration or a way to kind of

31:30

get away you know but January come we'll

31:32

just go for it on the sofa shall

31:34

we just stay here it's fine fine

31:37

do you want a glass of ginger wine yeah but

31:42

I think if you if you it's

31:44

nice as a habitual practice

31:46

maybe to to drop some

31:48

things and this kind of having

31:51

a point to review and say okay

31:53

that's what I learned that's what's different that's what

31:56

I want to change going forward or how I

31:58

want to feel differently you know. that's a

32:00

very useful point. So what would you drop

32:02

or what or rather okay here's

32:04

another way of thinking about it. So

32:07

if I'm looking at my sort of list

32:09

things that this

32:11

is interesting things that you thought

32:13

you wanted to do that haven't

32:15

happened. Well definitely

32:17

those things for me are the things

32:19

I said around freedom and peace. I

32:22

didn't get most of those done. I

32:24

haven't booked skydiving. I haven't

32:27

booked skydiving either but that

32:29

wasn't on my list. I

32:31

haven't written my book. Right. I haven't

32:34

happened. I haven't been

32:36

to the Scottish Isles. I'd kind

32:38

of forgotten that. Well

32:41

the Scottish Isles are not going anywhere. They're not

32:43

going anywhere and actually there is something out there

32:45

that I might go out to Scotland for but

32:47

it won't be the Scottish Isles but I think

32:50

you know I can't

32:52

remember what was in my mind when

32:54

I wrote that. There was something that

32:56

I wanted in that that hasn't happened.

32:58

Yeah photos that's happening now so there we

33:01

go right at the end of the year. But

33:04

it's actually been quite an interesting year I think

33:07

in terms of doing things differently.

33:09

I think a more interesting question than

33:11

what was on there that you didn't

33:14

do is what was on there that

33:16

you didn't do and you feel bad

33:18

about. Oh that's good. Because it's

33:20

okay not to do some of the things

33:23

but you see for me like not looking

33:25

after myself better not doing the

33:27

art tribe stuff although we are beginning that

33:29

now. I regret that. I think that you

33:31

know I should have whereas some of the

33:34

other things I think well I change my

33:36

mind about doing that. So moving across the

33:38

country I don't regret not doing because I changed

33:40

my mind. So with the book for

33:42

example do you regret that or do you just

33:44

feel like it's not the right time at the

33:46

moment and I'm okay with that? I just

33:48

feel like it's not the right time at the moment. Yeah

33:53

no the one thing that I've got is a

33:55

personal thing which is taking a trip with my dad

33:58

it just didn't work out. they

34:00

did a lot of traveling which they

34:02

then realised absolutely exhausted them and

34:05

and like you say medical wise other things

34:07

have sort of overtaken that. Yeah

34:09

I've, Mum and I have talked about going

34:12

to Ireland where my dad's family's from and

34:14

she's done a lot of family history research

34:16

and we were going to go there and

34:18

see and then she's been ill and there's

34:20

always something and I really want to make

34:22

that happen next year because I don't

34:24

know how well long she'll be well enough. I mean

34:26

at the moment yes she's ill,

34:29

she has cancer but honestly she's

34:31

like the spare cancer patient

34:33

of Yorkshire. Everybody wants to meet her

34:35

because she's even the hardest

34:37

chemotherapy they give her she just like gets up

34:39

and goes yeah is that the best you've got

34:41

give me more. She's

34:43

amazing so she's doing really well so once

34:45

all that chemo's over I would like to

34:48

take her and do that but it

34:50

is hard when maybe that won't be possible

34:52

because she might not carry on doing

34:54

really well and I know how you feel it's like

34:57

oh did we let that chance go but

34:59

you can't do everything and you can't control what

35:04

happens in people's health

35:06

and you've done lots for your

35:08

Mum and Dad that isn't taking them on a

35:10

trip so yeah

35:13

what was needed. Isn't it

35:15

interesting though how a lot of this is coming back

35:17

to personal things and

35:19

I think that's I mean maybe everybody

35:21

else is really good at that. What

35:23

managing their personal things and yeah I

35:25

think their personal things and priorities. You

35:27

know what I do come across a

35:29

lot of people who make their personal

35:31

things the priority and their painting doesn't

35:34

get done okay or they don't go

35:36

on Instagram and sell it or they

35:38

don't so yeah there's definitely people who

35:40

do that but then they feel like

35:42

oh why can I never make time

35:44

for the businessy things or the painting

35:46

so we never get the balance right

35:48

I think we're always probably doing

35:51

this but the other thing that's happened this

35:53

year for me that's thrown the balance

35:55

off a bit is that

35:58

halfway through well no in about April

36:00

or May I suddenly knew, oh I

36:03

want to get a bigger workspace

36:06

and I want it to be somewhere that people can come

36:08

to for workshops or retreats and

36:11

so I went on this pursuit as

36:13

which I've talked about on here before

36:15

and I looked at various options nothing

36:17

was quite right or it was right but it

36:19

wasn't going to work out for one reason or another

36:23

and that is very time consuming and

36:25

frustrating when you you're like

36:27

but that was a perfect except the plan

36:29

to say you can't do this or whatever

36:31

something gets in the way and I think

36:33

I may have may

36:36

have got to a solution on

36:38

that now for next year

36:40

and that will

36:42

be exciting and it's ended up being something

36:44

very different than I imagined in the first

36:46

place but actually it's ended up being something

36:48

that I wrote down in my book probably

36:51

four years ago right

36:54

except the fact it's not by the

36:56

sea because the idea I had was

36:59

originally for a place like this by the

37:01

sea and this isn't by the sea but

37:03

other than that it kind of does fit

37:05

my criteria from a while ago so that's

37:07

interesting that something that I wrote down all

37:10

that time ago is now coming back

37:12

in a completely different way but my

37:14

point was we make

37:16

these plans and goals but then if something else

37:18

comes up that you realize is oh

37:20

that's what I want I don't

37:22

think you should brush it aside because

37:25

you had these other plans I think

37:27

you should pursue the thing that feels

37:29

the most exciting definitely flexibility over sticking

37:31

to something rigidly and I think what

37:33

we're saying is is having a degree

37:35

of patience and acceptance

37:38

and when I say acceptance I don't just

37:40

mean sitting back and taking it I

37:43

mean going with the flow acceptance

37:45

because if we talk

37:48

about I don't feel actually like I

37:51

have been less involved

37:53

in a way in making

37:57

my art but that means I've

37:59

been more involved in other things that

38:01

doesn't feel like things have been out

38:03

of balance, that feels like I've been

38:06

broadening out of scope. Very

38:09

often with I don't even know why

38:11

I'm doing this, I don't know

38:13

what I'm going to do with this, I

38:16

don't know why I'm doing this, I don't know

38:18

why I'm spending time on this, sometimes

38:21

literally why on earth am I spending time

38:23

on this, you know, why did I sign

38:25

up to do this thing, this is like

38:27

I do not have time for this, why am I

38:29

doing it and it

38:33

all eventually gets somewhere that you think

38:35

oh okay right certain little

38:37

jigsaw pieces are starting to get together

38:40

and make a little bit sense to me

38:42

now and yeah it's

38:44

just that it's just that patience element

38:46

isn't it, I'm not very good with patience,

38:49

but getting better, patience and

38:51

accepting that you don't always

38:54

know as you say why,

38:56

patience and trust in

38:59

just doing the thing that feels like

39:02

finding this space, I feel like I've got

39:04

to do that for some reason, I feel

39:06

like I need this bigger space, but I

39:09

don't really can't really explain it and

39:11

my very practical friend when I first

39:13

started talking about it was like well

39:15

yeah but what's the plan and I

39:17

was like I don't know, I just

39:20

know if I've got the space the plan will

39:22

come, yeah but what

39:24

are you going to use these various rooms for,

39:27

I don't know because this particular building I

39:29

was looking at, a commercial building it had

39:31

several rooms, I don't know

39:33

but I can tell you I'm going to use them all,

39:35

I know that and now I'm going to fill them all

39:37

with something, but think how much

39:39

better you've got at doing that process

39:42

over the last five years

39:44

of following the nudge of

39:46

something, yeah yeah I didn't used

39:48

to, no, trusting

39:50

myself to follow, no, hear

39:54

a nudge let alone trust myself to

39:56

follow it, now you remember me, and

39:58

it's always gradual. It's

40:01

always kind of gradual shift and

40:03

those kind of moments of realisation.

40:05

Anyway, yeah, so maybe worth digging

40:07

out what you thought in January. It's

40:10

a nice, it is a nice process to do, I

40:12

think, because we're never and just remember we're never the

40:14

same and like next year is never going to be

40:16

the same. It's just like what's

40:18

your understanding

40:21

and where can where

40:23

can you make changes or where can you accept

40:26

things with a little bit more understanding

40:29

and appreciation perhaps. And I

40:31

do think this year it's taking longer. Everything

40:34

feels slower towards the end of

40:36

this year than it has done

40:38

previously. Maybe I'm just

40:40

ready to like press stop. Yeah,

40:43

not hyped up on like Christmas markets

40:45

or selling or doing things last minute

40:47

or a nightmare. It

40:51

would be crowds of people are pushing to

40:53

get to a stand selling

40:55

just tap. Awful. Sorry

40:59

to anyone who's doing a Christmas market. I'm sure

41:01

your stuff is lovely. I went

41:03

to our local kind of makers market

41:05

and I actually

41:07

let's do this in what's inspired. I

41:12

have one too. Do you want to go first? You

41:14

go first because it's slower. Yeah,

41:17

OK, so I had a lovely day last

41:19

week which finished up with the makers market

41:22

where I was really looking forward to going

41:24

and buying myself another treasure from a local

41:27

ceramicist because the last one who survived a

41:29

whole year. So I'm allowed to buy myself

41:31

another one. What is that all about? I

41:33

don't know. But there we

41:35

go. I was really looking forward to

41:38

going and choosing. And I bought lots

41:40

of things, including candles from a guy

41:42

who makes them still in his mum's

41:44

kitchen and some lovely laser cut wood

41:46

things for the tree. I had a

41:48

really lovely time. It was on Black

41:51

Friday, actually, deliberately not buying Black Friday

41:53

things, but buying things from people

41:56

who had made them themselves. I

41:58

want to actually take back my. buying cat.

42:00

What I don't like is not cat in

42:02

a lot of these markets, it is in

42:04

some. In a lot of

42:06

them it's beautiful things, but I just can't be

42:09

doing with the crowds. And

42:11

the place I wanted to go is this

42:13

beautiful big old mill near me and I

42:15

saw, oh this would be a lovely trip

42:17

out to see. There's some lovely ceramicists there

42:19

and stuff. And then on Facebook they posted,

42:22

bring gloves and a coat because you'll have to

42:24

stand outside because there will be big queues and

42:26

there are some other, some cafes you can pop

42:29

into while you're waiting and then

42:31

we'll only be able to allow so many people in

42:33

at a time and I was like, oh that

42:35

sounds awful. No, I don't want to queue with

42:38

that many people to get in. But

42:40

it did look lovely, what they had. So

42:42

I do take it back and apologies to

42:44

everybody for my casual comment. I

42:47

just don't like the idea of all the crowds, but

42:49

yeah there was some lovely stuff. I think it's just,

42:51

it goes back to conscious buying for me. Just

42:55

not spending on things that

42:57

you're going to treasure and really use

42:59

and enjoy. But what's really inspired

43:01

was earlier in that day I

43:04

went to see the Marina Abramovich

43:06

at the Royal Academy. Oh

43:09

my gosh, if you ever want

43:11

to question the purpose of your

43:13

existence and if what we do, I

43:16

want to. Okay go

43:18

on. It was extraordinary. It was a

43:20

really extraordinary exhibition because you

43:22

think how are they going to put

43:24

on an exhibition about performance art with

43:26

performances that have happened like 40 years

43:28

ago? How are they going

43:31

to do this so that you can actually

43:33

experience it or understand it in

43:35

the same way that as this would have

43:38

been performed? And actually

43:40

it was a more extensive exhibition

43:42

than I was expecting. Maybe

43:44

it was one of those lovely things where I just

43:46

thought this is an opportunity, I don't want to

43:49

miss this. I want

43:52

to go and see. Performance art is

43:54

not my thing, but I think she

43:57

is an extraordinary person. Am

43:59

I really? didn't want to miss it but

44:01

I hadn't done any research, I

44:04

didn't know how big the exhibition was

44:06

going to be so I was I

44:09

was going to say pleasantly surprised,

44:11

I'm not sure pleasantly surprised, the

44:13

guys I went with if you're

44:15

listening you'll be laughing because when we

44:17

left you were like okay let's have lunch

44:20

and order a bottle of wine as soon

44:22

as we can. It's quite challenging, I

44:25

would put a caveat

44:28

out probably not to go with

44:32

be sensitive about if you want to

44:34

take younger people with you and it's

44:36

extraordinary, it's really

44:39

extraordinary how they portray some

44:42

of the performances she did, the one

44:44

where they lay a whole load of

44:46

different items on a table and

44:49

members of the public were invited to use them

44:51

on her body to actually see those

44:53

items and some of the video I mean

44:55

it's just you know and doing

44:57

that didn't put her off but like what

44:59

do you learn about humanity doing something like

45:02

that? It's

45:04

really quite it's really quite extraordinary and

45:06

it does make you think huh

45:10

this this

45:13

is really art and

45:16

there's an element of when

45:18

I get my knickers in a twist about colour

45:20

mixing. Yeah yeah

45:24

there's some of that whenever I

45:26

go I'm coming with Tracy for

45:28

a day just to see the Holbein

45:31

at Buckingham Palace because there's an

45:33

exhibition of all his drawings and

45:35

I absolutely love history and I love Holbein

45:38

and so I'm coming to that and when you

45:40

first started talking I thought well we'll have the

45:42

afternoon we could go and then

45:45

I'm thinking I do can

45:47

I deal with that? I think probably not

45:49

at the moment I think I'll just take

45:52

your word for it because it does sound

45:54

amazing but also really difficult and

45:56

a little tip for anybody who's wanting to go

45:58

so I message random people And I said, yeah,

46:00

we might need that after seeing the naked people. And she's

46:02

like, naked people? Are they going to be naked people in

46:04

it? When

46:07

we got to the

46:09

room that has the performance and it's two, it's

46:12

a man and a woman standing in a doorway.

46:14

It was done initially as the entrance to an

46:16

exhibition. And it's to do with the idea of

46:18

the artist giving of their body and how

46:22

comfortable are you and what you have to give. And

46:25

you have to squeeze through this space between them.

46:27

When we got to the room where this was

46:29

in and they've set it up so that you

46:31

don't have to, you can walk around if you

46:33

want to. They weren't there, just

46:36

the doorway was there. So we

46:38

stood in our clothes in the

46:40

doorway facing each other just to

46:42

see what it would feel like.

46:44

And actually that was quite an

46:46

interesting experience because you're putting yourself

46:48

like, how comfortable does this feel

46:50

for us with our clothes on? Now

46:52

imagine people coming through. We were sounding like

46:54

right with our backs up against the wall.

46:57

And then we waited and then they said,

46:59

okay, the performers are coming back now. Can

47:01

you clear out of the way please? Obviously,

47:03

yes. Good, they're coming back.

47:06

And they came and when

47:08

they stood, they stood quite a long way away from

47:10

the wall. So the gap between them was

47:13

really quite narrow. Right.

47:15

Really quite narrow. But

47:17

the tip is, if you go into that

47:19

room and they're not there, spend

47:22

a bit of time and wait because they

47:24

will come back again. And of course there's

47:26

this lovely list at the end of all

47:28

the people who are performing in it. So

47:30

they're not the only ones. There are other

47:33

rooms where people are performing. And

47:36

I was quite interested in the practicalities of some of that.

47:39

Because one of those was an original 12 day piece

47:42

where she didn't eat for 12 days. Now

47:44

I'm guessing that the performers who are

47:46

doing that now aren't operating on exactly

47:48

the same schedule but the

47:51

curator in the room didn't exactly know. But

47:53

I think it looked from the performer list

47:55

like they were doing a day each. But

47:58

yeah, great exhibition. I

48:00

have anything that inspiring. So

48:03

I'm not going to say. Usually it's you not

48:05

me. Okay that's it from us for this week

48:07

and we are going to be taking a little

48:09

bit of a break so that's the end of

48:12

this season. If you don't

48:14

subscribe already you might want to subscribe

48:16

so you get a notice when

48:18

new episodes pop up in the new year. Until

48:21

then we wish you a very happy

48:23

break. If you miss us

48:25

you can always pop back, listen to some

48:27

of the previous episodes. Apparently 198 what

48:31

does it mean to be an artist is number one

48:33

according to Spotify. We

48:36

can't remember what it is but it might be

48:38

good. Enjoy your Christmas

48:41

and New Year and we will see you

48:43

again another time. Bye.