0:00

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert.

0:02

I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Mrs. Mouse.

0:05

Squeak, squeak. We didn't even talk about this on the fact check,

0:08

but the strike is over. The

0:10

strike is over. Congratulations

0:12

to all. Congratulations. Well, they haven't,

0:14

it's not done done. They

0:17

have a deal that they're now bringing to the members

0:19

to vote on. I mean, so presumably it will,

0:21

that'll.

0:21

But it said 1201 on Thursday,

0:24

members can go back to work. Oh, it did? Yeah.

0:27

Oh, so then maybe the members already approved

0:29

the deal they brought back. I think so. But when

0:32

I read the announcement, it was like, they have a deal,

0:34

they've agreed upon a deal they'll now bring back

0:36

to the members to vote on. Maybe, oh

0:38

boy. But anyway, I think it's over. Okay, congratulations.

0:43

Today's guest is a

0:45

babe.

0:45

We've been trying to have him on for long,

0:48

long, long, Long, long time, it's been scheduled,

0:50

it's been unscheduled, it's been scheduled. And the day

0:52

has finally arrived and it really

0:54

delivered. Trevor Noah,

0:56

what a smart motherfucker. Oh my God,

0:58

is he smart. Yeah, very fun to talk

1:00

to. Yes, he loves to dance. He

1:02

lives to dance, I'd say. Trevor

1:05

Noah is a comedian, a best-selling author, an

1:07

Emmy award-winning host, and then he's a hugely

1:10

successful touring stand-up. Of

1:12

course, you've come to love him for seven years on

1:14

The Daily Show with Trevor Noah. And he has a

1:16

new podcast out right now,

1:18

a Spotify original called What

1:21

Now? with Trevor Noah. So

1:23

please check that out, that is out now. And

1:25

enjoy The Dance with Trevor

1:27

Noah.

1:29

♪ He's an object expert ♪

1:35

♪ He's an object expert ♪

1:40

♪ He's an object expert ♪

1:43

Oh, you go side-saddle. Do you do this when you're

1:45

doing your podcast? I used to DJ. Oh,

1:48

okay. So I'm more comfortable with one

1:50

ear. I just got used to hearing the room and

1:53

then hearing what's happening in my ear. I also had

1:55

a radio show when I was in South Africa way back in the day. And

1:57

then same thing. So you'd always have one ear up so

1:59

you can.

1:59

talk to people in the studio and then one ear monitoring

2:02

what's happening. Yeah. You know,

2:04

I'm used to one earing it. Could you just

2:06

get a set that just doesn't have

2:08

the other? Oh you do. Yeah, you do. Oh

2:11

you have that? Yeah. You've got

2:13

the one and it just has a one ear. Oh okay. Wow. It's

2:17

like you work at AT&T on the phone bank

2:19

or something. I

2:22

feel

2:22

like that would be a lot of stimuli

2:24

from the outside and from inside

2:27

your headphones.

2:27

But it's the same thing.

2:28

Wow. I don't think so.

2:30

You're in one environment. Well she's

2:33

right in that you'd be hearing all this extraneous

2:35

noise in the environment on one side of your brain

2:38

or your ear and then the other side

2:40

is very dialed in. So think of it this way. Let's

2:42

say you're DJing like a party. The

2:45

music that they're hearing is the music you're hearing but then

2:47

you're also hearing the music that you're gonna play and

2:49

the music that you're currently playing. Oh, oh, oh,

2:51

oh. So they're the same information

2:53

coming in at the same time with maybe 20% difference. Interesting.

2:58

And ADHD is an asset in that moment. It's

3:00

gotta be, right? I guess it is, yeah. I've never

3:02

ever considered that I had it. I know I'm dyslexic

3:05

but I never considered I had it. And then we had Gabor

3:07

Matan and afterwards he was like, have you

3:09

ever been tested for ADHD? It was

3:11

kind of a thin slice assessment that maybe I had

3:14

it. So I've been kind of mulling it over. And

3:16

I guess I never thought I had it because I can sit

3:18

down for protracted periods of time and

3:20

focus. I'm a writer so to me that's like, well

3:23

no, I have unlimited attention when necessary.

3:25

But I do think the quick thinking has to be, that's

3:27

gotta be part of it, right? Yeah, I

3:30

would be careful to receive a diagnosis

3:32

from anyone. I've learned over the years

3:35

that many of the things we deal with with our brains

3:38

overlap. Some of the side effects of ADHD

3:40

are similar to side effects of OCD

3:42

or similar to people who are bipolar.

3:45

So if you're not careful, I've met a lot of people who just be

3:47

like, oh, there's D and you're like, hmm, you

3:49

might not be. Yeah. They

3:51

just have overlapping symptoms. I have a friend

3:53

who has autism and then she has some

3:56

of the symptoms, but she's not ADHD, but

3:58

you know what I mean?

3:59

We want to diagnose.

4:01

Well, it's all driven by the DSM, right? There has

4:03

to be categories so that you can get reimbursement

4:06

for... I mean, truly. So, you're

4:08

right. All these things could be like a multitude of

4:10

personality characteristics that were

4:13

forced to categorize and break

4:15

into and draw artificial boundaries between

4:18

ADHD and OCD and blah,

4:20

blah, blah. First of all, I'm assuming

4:22

you get the same thing I get all the time when

4:24

I meet people in public, which is, oh my God,

4:26

you're so much taller than I was expecting. Is

4:28

that a common... Yeah, I get that. Yeah. You

4:31

get that? All the time. Huh. I

4:34

wonder what it is. I wonder if it's because our

4:36

bodies do not present our height. It might be like a

4:38

thing about our torsos and how they're proportioned.

4:41

That could be it. It could be like

4:43

a head-torso-legs ratio

4:45

that doesn't make you look tall. Right.

4:47

I think it's also on screen, it's

4:50

really hard to gauge people's heights. And

4:52

that's where most people are seeing both of you.

4:54

Yes. Also, you're seated behind

4:57

a desk. That's what it probably is. That's a huge

4:59

piece. Yeah, that's a huge piece. So we're not really

5:01

seeing you standing. I guess when the guests

5:03

would come out, you would stand. I don't know. No,

5:05

but I'm with you. There's probably something in that world. Of

5:07

all the things to be told when someone meets you, I'm delighted

5:09

to hear that. I mean, I'm presuming that's positive.

5:12

Let's put it this way. Because we are in a world where being

5:15

tall is considered a good thing. For

5:17

a man. Oh, it's an advantage. For a man? Wow,

5:21

you're taller than I thought. Oh.

5:23

It could go either way. It wouldn't

5:25

be 100% a compliment. I

5:27

don't think it would be offensive either. You don't

5:29

think that's a female ideal, do you? I mean, we

5:31

acknowledge that models are tall. That's

5:33

why I'm asking. I don't think it's broadly...

5:36

I bet if you pulled Americans and said,

5:38

list your three favorite traits

5:40

in a female. If you're designing one in the lab,

5:42

I don't think tall makes the top three. No,

5:45

I agree with you. Oh, okay. Great, great, great.

5:47

Yeah, but for a man...

5:48

I don't think it's offensive. It's not offensive. It's

5:51

not offensive. So I get the opposite all the time. People,

5:53

if they meet me in person, oh my God, you're so short.

5:55

Which I am so short. But

5:58

I actually take that as a compliment.

6:00

compliment because and I guess

6:02

this does mean tall is better because it makes

6:04

me feel like oh I present tall.

6:06

Oh What is a very glass

6:08

half full? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

6:10

that's what it is And I guess conversely you

6:12

and I should be thinking God we present so short We

6:15

should reduce our compliment to a burn

6:17

and when you think about it presenting short

6:19

is what short people generally do

6:23

It's the wrong way around no what I mean You

6:25

know you think of Napoleon there are countless stories

6:28

of shorter people in the world

6:30

who have you know I mean

6:32

yeah, we call it mixed messages So my

6:35

wife's also very small in stature of

6:37

mighty in power as is Monica.

6:39

I actually love that combination It's

6:41

just like a little surprise. Yes. Yes.

6:43

Yeah, like oh my god. You like explosives

6:45

as well You know I'm pyrotechnic. Yeah

6:49

Pretty much the same Tiny

6:52

little package that explodes and everything

6:55

It's like a little woodland creature you see in

6:57

and you pick up in your petting it and then the huge fangs

7:00

come out And then you leap back like oh my god.

7:02

I gotta be careful. You must be an arousal junkie

7:04

like me Are you a bit of arousal junkie? You

7:06

say more say more? Well, I will and I

7:08

love that term too. That's like a CIA thing

7:10

say more. I didn't know your background at all Here's what

7:12

I know about you you interviewed me at some

7:15

point on the Daily Show during Covid

7:17

Monica will tell you I came out of that and

7:19

I was like boy that Trevor guy is wonderful Like I

7:22

really enjoyed chatting with him I don't know what my

7:24

expectation was but I think so. Oh, I

7:26

see this dude, and I really like him

7:27

He was like everyone knows that already

7:28

everyone did know that especially a lady's nice

7:33

But then I learned your story today

7:35

and Although there's so many things we

7:38

don't have in common the violence the

7:40

step parents the single mom This

7:43

stuff to me is very identical and

7:45

so chaos and excitement It

7:50

has made my base desire

7:52

of arousal quite high Interesting.

7:55

Yes, like I feel very calm and

7:57

chaos if I go into 7-eleven and

7:59

shits me Popping off and there's a unhoused dude

8:02

fighting the guy behind the I love it I'm in the

8:04

mix that excites me and I feel alive

8:06

and I guess I'm attributing it to Nurture

8:09

and not nature. I could just been born this way,

8:11

right? I hear it's given your background

8:14

if you are a bit of an arousal

8:16

junkie yourself. I like to sit unhoused I'm

8:20

not sold on I don't like on house I'm

8:24

not sold on it. No, I'll tell you why I'll

8:26

tell you why it's the same thing I

8:30

know how they think it's a thing. Yeah,

8:32

I've

8:32

also never come across an unhoused

8:34

person who's like hey, don't call me homeless

8:37

Here's my issue I think sometimes we

8:39

are engaging in conversations where on an

8:41

academic level some people are

8:43

trying to split hairs that aren't necessarily

8:46

Getting anywhere close to the issue if this was ever

8:48

used as a slur I can understand

8:50

totally So I go like there are some words that have evolved

8:53

over time, but they were used as slurs So I'm

8:55

like alright, let's try and move away from using that

8:57

word. I can understand that sometimes

8:59

I'm resistant I think we all are but there

9:01

are times when I go I get it Yeah, but

9:03

homeless was never a slur. I

9:05

know it is not a slur It is the condition

9:08

that a person is in you are lacking

9:10

of a home And so now all people have done is

9:12

they flip the word around to seem

9:14

like they're helping or solving a problem when

9:16

they're not homeless less Unhoused

9:19

house home. That's the exact

9:21

thing like you're gaslighting me in these situations

9:24

Yes, next year. It'll be without home

9:26

you see and it's just like no man. I'll go further It's

9:29

more nefarious than that first of all it's patronizing

9:31

what it really says is we feel like shit that this is

9:33

a condition And we're gonna try to dress up what we call

9:36

you every few months to make you know we're trying

9:38

I disagree funny enough Okay, I don't think it's

9:40

about showing homeless people that I

9:42

don't either your fellow liberals Yes about showing

9:44

other people that look no I care so much

9:47

about them that I've given them a new title

9:49

Yeah, yes, so then that's the second thing

9:51

and then I'll say to a lot of these people I'll go hey

9:53

have you voted to change the housing in

9:56

your area have you voted for or against

9:58

it? Every time I see these counts and whatever

10:00

in California, there's countless votes that come

10:02

up where they go, hey, can we adjust the housing

10:05

rules in this area? Can we figure out who can

10:07

live where? Everyone votes against

10:09

it. People are so progressive

10:12

until it's in their backyard. And then all

10:14

of a sudden, I remember seeing people going to

10:16

Santa Monica. There was a homeless

10:18

encampment that was being moved and they were going to protest,

10:21

but none of the people were from that area. And

10:23

I found it particularly interesting. And I'm not

10:26

saying that they're all bad people, but I do think

10:28

we have to be careful to, as

10:30

they say, put your money where your mouth is. A lot

10:32

of people want to engage in progressivism

10:35

on a theoretical level. You want to use

10:38

all the right language. You want to tweet

10:40

all the right things. But then in your actual

10:42

life, in the way you vote and the things that you

10:44

actually move towards, you find

10:46

you're not as pro having kids

10:49

from different areas in your school or you're like,

10:51

oh, I want my kids to go to a good school. I

10:53

mean, I want everyone in the schools, but I

10:56

just look, here's the thing. I love it. But I think,

10:58

yeah, it's like not in my backyard. Yeah. Like

11:00

I get it. But anyway, you're going. So let's go back. I

11:02

apologize. No, I love it. Stimuli.

11:05

So you say you want to say one more thing.

11:07

We need to add one more layer to it. Yes. And there was

11:10

a great article recently said maybe we're

11:12

the bad guys in New York Times. I also think

11:14

it's an opportunity for just righteousness. That's it.

11:16

It's just a way to signal to other people that you're

11:18

righteous and then put yourself in a position to

11:20

judge all the other people who are not sane on

11:22

house. But for me, it's just

11:24

fucking exhausting. So I'll go on house

11:26

instead of homeless. I don't

11:29

want to hear about it. So here's what I struggle with in society.

11:31

There are times when I will accept that we're

11:34

moving in a direction. But then there are times when I go

11:36

like, no, I'm willing to stand on the fact that I think

11:38

something is ridiculous. Yeah.

11:40

And I'll go from there. I got bigger fish to fry. I'm

11:42

more interested in whether you're an arousal junkie. So I think

11:45

I relate to the first part of what you're

11:47

saying. I function very

11:49

well. And strangely enough, my

11:51

body remains very calm in

11:54

a very stressful situation. So if

11:56

you ever getting carjacked, you want

11:58

me driving the car. If there's ever some chaos

12:01

breaking out somewhere, you want me in the situation.

12:03

In an airport, I've never panicked. Flights

12:06

are cancelled, people are screaming. I've

12:08

run to a gate calm, but it's because I've

12:10

grown up in such a tumultuous environment that

12:13

that is almost a baseline. What I've had

12:15

to learn over time is to get comfortable

12:17

with silence and calm. The problem is

12:19

if you grew up in a world where shit was

12:21

always popping off, you always had to be prepared

12:23

for that. Hypervigilant. Exactly.

12:26

The worst that was for me as a child was

12:28

the moment in a horror movie where something's

12:31

about to happen. I don't know about you, but the scariest

12:33

parts of a horror movie for me are the parts

12:35

where there's just nothing happening. Yeah. You

12:38

know, it's like a couple walking around in the kitchen, honey,

12:40

did you see where I put the mugs? And I'm like,

12:42

oh, this is not good. Oh, and then people

12:44

like opening cabinets and people walking into other

12:46

rooms and then the attic. And I'm like,

12:49

no, no. Once the actual violence happens, and once

12:51

the monster comes out, I'm like, okay. You're gonna

12:53

feel relieved. I'm like, who? All right, we see it

12:55

now. Being to be hit is much more painful

12:57

than being hit. Exactly. Once you

12:59

get hit, like everything else takes over. I can relate to that

13:01

part. And I have been working on enjoying

13:04

the peace and settling into that, learning to

13:06

regulate my responses. My

13:08

therapist would say, do you search

13:10

out things that activate you, that kind of

13:13

bring you to life and animate

13:15

you? I don't do that. No. I

13:17

will search for things that I enjoy, of course. So

13:20

I love roller coasters. I love racing

13:22

fast cars. Oh, hold on. I used to race

13:24

motorbikes on the track. This is my life. I'm

13:26

at the track once a month. That's all I do. Really?

13:30

Yes. I have two track bikes. Oh,

13:32

for real. I have an R1 and then I have an R1. That's

13:34

amazing. Yeah. And

13:36

then I have a Norton built ZX4 that's like a Moto 2 bike.

13:39

Damn. Look at that. That's

13:41

just epic. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. And

13:44

then car two. Yeah, that's all I do. Yeah, my favorite

13:46

was, I had a Suzuki GSXR 1000. I have one. Yeah.

13:49

That was my favorite track bike. That was long ago when I still

13:51

rode religiously. I did not know this

13:53

about you. So you're full of fucking shit.

13:56

You're an arousal joke. You motherfucker.

13:58

No, no, no, no. I'm going to tell you why. I'm

14:00

gonna explain why we love it. You

14:02

get on the bike. Yes. There's

14:04

no time for broad hypervigilance.

14:07

There is only the turn in front of you. You do not

14:09

have any option but to think about the turn in front of

14:11

you and it focuses you. And for me,

14:14

I have to be in that crazy of an environment

14:16

to get ultra present and

14:19

to have no practice. That makes sense.

14:21

And it's so peaceful. Like I think people look at that activity

14:24

and they think, oh my God, my adrenaline will be distant. And

14:26

I'm like, no, it's very meditative to me. It's a total

14:28

presence. Right. Turn

14:31

to turn to turn. But for me, that's

14:33

why I'm saying that's where I think we diverge.

14:36

So it doesn't bring me peace. It

14:38

brings me focus and flow and challenge

14:40

and stimulation, but I'm not only

14:43

seeking that out. So for instance, I'm also the person

14:45

who is very comfortable seeking out a

14:48

comfortably warm swimming pool and

14:50

just wading through. That for me is

14:53

as much fun and joy as racing

14:55

a motorbike around a track. Having a

14:57

walk in an empty city, you're in Paris,

14:59

you're in New York, you are in London,

15:02

just those beautiful cities when it goes like quiet

15:04

in certain areas, walking,

15:07

silence, nothing happening. I

15:09

love that too.

15:10

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Have

15:13

you ever done a barefoot?

15:14

Sometimes Dax walks around the city's barefoot. Yeah.

15:16

Yeah. I like to do that.

15:18

Why would you do that? Because again, he wants, he has to add stakes.

15:20

No. I don't know. It

15:22

happened as a lark one time. We walked

15:24

around London, Eric and I for about eight miles

15:26

and there was something about transferring

15:29

to all the different surfaces that made me very aware

15:31

of the different surfaces we were on and I just fucking

15:33

dug it. Do you have like hard feet? No, they're

15:35

so fragile and sensitive. Shocker,

15:38

I was able to do it because yes, I can't walk across

15:40

rocks or anything. Oh, okay. No,

15:43

I don't have like the thick layered Hamilton

15:47

lifetime when those shoes. I don't know. Yeah.

15:50

I don't know how you do that. Well, I have that's a hard question. Sorry.

15:53

I'm here Mark Morris. Are you going to be in LA

15:55

a lot? Yeah, I'm always here working. Why? I'm

15:58

inviting you. If you ever want to go to the track and read. Oh, maybe

16:00

I'll join you. I haven't been in a while. Okay. And

16:02

I have extra bikes and I think that would be fun and

16:04

we'd be too tall men on a monologue. No, that would be a fun idea. Okay,

16:07

Monica, sorry.

16:07

No, no, it's okay. I'm gonna ask a hard question.

16:10

It might be coming, sorry, if it is. Oh, okay. But

16:12

it's in keeping with this. In relationships,

16:15

do you live at 10 and 2? Or

16:17

are you pretty good at living in 6?

16:20

What does that mean?

16:21

Are you on a high and a

16:23

low, like a deep low and a deep high all

16:25

the time within the relationship? Or are you good

16:27

at being sort of level, normal?

16:30

So I think that's evolved over time.

16:32

Before I went to therapy, I think

16:35

my world oscillated between

16:37

highs and lows in every relationship. I

16:40

found myself attracted to people who

16:43

themselves had grown up in worlds where

16:45

they were used to highs and lows, highs and lows. And

16:47

so we would exist in that space together,

16:49

you know, high together, low together, high together, low

16:52

together. It's fun. Yeah. It's quite

16:54

a ride. But more importantly,

16:56

I feel like it's a powerful connector, because

16:59

there are a few things that connect human beings, like

17:02

traumas and excitements. There are

17:04

a few things that will make you remember something than

17:07

the best or the worst. Nobody

17:09

doesn't remember the day they had a car accident. But

17:11

every day when you arrived where you're going, you forgot

17:14

about those days. I think it connects you

17:16

as well in a psychologically strange

17:18

way. But yeah, over time, what I think has

17:20

started happening is I've started

17:22

ebbing and flowing. I don't really live

17:25

in the twos anymore. I think a lot of the

17:27

time it's unnecessary. And we don't realize

17:29

that it's unnecessary. When you start

17:31

to exist in a space where you

17:33

can have conversations with yourself,

17:35

and you acknowledge what you're feeling and who

17:37

you are, you start to realize

17:40

how many of the emotions we have are just triggers

17:43

from our bodies from the past, you start to

17:45

realize that these are patterns that you've learned. And

17:47

in many ways, to use riding motorbikes

17:49

as an analogy, one of the hardest things to do

17:52

on the track you know, is to change

17:55

your entry and exit. If you've been doing it the

17:57

same way over and over and over,

18:00

It's so hard to just change and break 10

18:02

feet later because your body is so

18:05

used to what you've been doing. There might be a person on the

18:07

track who's there teaching you or coach or something and they

18:09

go like, hey, you're breaking too early, you're breaking too late.

18:11

To change that is so hard just because it's become

18:13

motor function now. And I think the same

18:16

can happen to you as a person and in a relationship.

18:18

You can get so used to reacting a certain way

18:20

because somebody makes you feel a certain

18:23

way. But I think what I've learned over time is nobody's

18:25

making you feel a certain way. And it's like they punch

18:27

you. Somebody punches you, they made you feel pain.

18:30

Let's all agree on that. But there are times when

18:33

you are having a completely

18:36

different experience to the other person because

18:38

your interpretation of their actions

18:41

is completely different. And that's what

18:44

blew my mind. Once I understood that, I found

18:46

myself in a space where sometimes it can frustrate

18:48

people around me because they think

18:50

I am being almost annoyingly

18:53

understanding. I genuinely can

18:55

almost always understand another person's point of view.

18:58

And that frustrates some people. Oh, here's a perfect example.

19:01

The other day, I

19:02

was walking with some friends, another guy

19:04

and two women, and we walked into an elevator.

19:06

I walked in first. My friend, she

19:08

was like, excuse me, chivalry

19:11

is dead. Why won't you let us walk? She was

19:13

joking, but she was, you know. And I turned

19:15

to her and I said, and this is true. Well, it's funny

19:17

you say that because in African

19:19

culture, not all African cultures,

19:22

but many African cultures, and it's predominantly Tossa

19:24

culture and South Africa, et cetera, men walk

19:26

into a room first. And

19:28

the reason men walk into a room first is

19:30

because there may be danger. Why

19:33

on earth would you send women into a space that

19:35

you are unfamiliar with so that they encounter

19:37

whatever may lie there? That's ridiculous.

19:39

That's disrespectful. She's like, ah, ladies first. Tell

19:41

me if there's a snake. Right. What

19:43

are you doing? And she was like, yeah, I get

19:46

it, but still, no. Then I was like, okay, but what's

19:48

interesting right now is you're completely invalidating

19:50

the thing that I've been taught and the way I

19:52

see the world. And you're assuming that yours

19:55

is the only way. I understand where you're

19:57

coming from. And you know what? Next time, I will gladly

19:59

let you go. first because who knows there might

20:01

be a fart in the elevator. You get to experience it before

20:03

me. You can protect her. Lucky her. But

20:06

then you wouldn't be able to hit the button for the floor first.

20:08

Maybe go work at a deal where I'll let you

20:10

go in first but I still get to hit the button. That has

20:13

helped me to not go between the

20:15

10s and 2s. I'm spending

20:17

most of my time existing in like comfortable

20:20

7s. I have made the same connection

20:22

some years ago and I actually get frustrated.

20:25

I'm watching a couples therapy show which is incredible.

20:27

I love it so much. But I

20:30

get really frustrated hearing people speak like,

20:32

well, he made me feel this and she made me feel that

20:35

and they made me feel and I'm like, is anyone

20:37

at all responsible for their feelings? And

20:40

are you going to proceed through life

20:42

praying that everyone around you changes

20:44

or are you going to try to change your response

20:46

to these things? Yeah. It

20:48

just seems so defeatist and

20:51

like you're not participating. You're just kind of waiting

20:53

around for people to activate you or

20:55

trigger you. It's tough though. It is a balance.

20:58

There's no denying that many people can make you feel

21:00

something. You know, when someone gaslights you, they're

21:02

making you feel something. And what

21:05

makes it so nefarious is the fact that you

21:07

don't even realize that they're making you feel

21:09

it because they're not making it apparent that they're making

21:12

you feel it. I think there are many situations

21:14

where people are making you feel something

21:16

and I think feelings aren't something we should ever

21:18

run away from. I think the difference

21:21

is to your point finding the moments where

21:23

we can take responsibility for what

21:26

many would consider. If you looked at it from a

21:28

divorce perspective, just take yourself out of it and

21:30

go, would a neutral party

21:33

consider this both ways?

21:35

And if there is that, then I go, then maybe they didn't

21:37

make me feel that way. Yeah. My counter

21:40

argument is the exact same

21:42

behavior aimed at 10 different people

21:44

will produce 10 different feelings. The

21:47

notion that there's an objective feeling

21:49

created by this behavior, I reject.

21:51

I think, well, you had a specific reaction

21:54

to that behavior, but it'd be very different

21:56

for the next person and the next person. And

21:58

by the way, here's where my empathy. exists

22:01

is people feel more comfortable that

22:03

if something objectively made them upset

22:05

they don't have to be as vulnerable to say I'm

22:07

vulnerable to that. The example I would give

22:10

is like Facebook I guess they had this

22:12

drop-down menu where you could say why you were objecting

22:14

to a picture that someone posted that you were

22:17

tagged in and it used

22:19

to say I'm embarrassed. How

22:21

did it say? You say like I'm embarrassed

22:24

and no one would click that and then when they'd write other

22:26

you could type in what it was and they'd virtually write. It's

22:29

embarrassing. So it's like not I'm embarrassed

22:31

this is an embarrassing photo.

22:33

Objectively this is embarrassing. I'm not being

22:36

vain or weak and so when they change

22:38

the drop-down menu to it's embarrassing

22:40

just like it's objectively. Interesting. It got clicked 90%

22:43

of the time. Interesting. It's less vulnerable

22:45

to make it just

22:46

like it as opposed to I feel something.

22:48

So when you say like that person makes

22:50

me feel this way it's an attempt I think to just say

22:52

objectively anyone would feel this way

22:54

when that person slams the door

22:56

that way. That in fact is not true. I will

22:59

react differently than you and Monica will react differently.

23:02

I agree with that. So the most important thing is to go how

23:04

do I react to certain things and what do

23:06

I have at my disposal. But I think it does

23:08

ignore the fact that we are interdependent creatures

23:11

and so nothing is without the

23:13

other. Let's put it this way maybe. It's

23:15

almost being able to exist in a world where you say

23:17

hey you made me feel

23:20

shit and then I go but

23:22

I'll tell you why you made

23:24

me feel shit because you did you are the

23:26

person who in this situation is the antagonist.

23:29

Yeah. Without you there was no emotion

23:31

that existed beforehand so if a dog comes

23:33

running up to me barking like crazy and

23:35

it seems like it's gonna bite me it made

23:38

me afraid. Now someone could go

23:40

no Trevor you need to ask yourself

23:42

why did you feel afraid when the

23:44

dog came it wasn't gonna bite you then I go like

23:46

hey hey that dog made me

23:48

feel afraid. I'll tell you why I wasn't

23:51

afraid when I walked in this gates I wasn't afraid

23:53

when I saw the dog I became afraid

23:55

when the dog charged me and barked at me loudly

23:57

and seemed like it was gonna attack me.

23:59

Now,

24:00

I can then go from that. The dog can go, that's

24:03

just how I roll. I'm just a dog. And then I can

24:05

say, as Trevor, huh, okay. If I'm

24:07

wanting to now engage with this dog on a regular basis,

24:10

I would then go, okay, dog.

24:12

So I've noticed that when you run at me like this,

24:15

barking, bearing your teeth, it makes me

24:17

feel like you're going to attack me. Now you say

24:19

you're not trying to do that, but I'm going to

24:21

try my best to process

24:23

this information and not be triggered by it. But

24:26

I would also hope that you would consider, because

24:28

you want to be a dog that's in my life, I

24:30

would hope that you would consider not approaching

24:33

me like that. Maybe just like walk up to me calmly

24:35

and pant and then like lick my hand. Can

24:37

you try that? Yeah. And

24:41

so that's why I'm saying I do think some people

24:43

are making you feel a certain way. This is how I

24:45

think of it in life. Everyone who's a stranger

24:47

in your world, that's where it's like, hey

24:49

man, keep it moving. Do your thing. Go.

24:53

Because I can't control it. You cut me off in the traffic.

24:55

Whatever. I'm like, I'm going to get with you as a dax. I

24:57

go, that person, you can go like, oh, they made me feel

24:59

insignificant or they pissed me off. No,

25:01

you got pissed off. They don't know you. They're

25:03

not involved in your world. They're just trying to get to work. That's why

25:05

they cut you off. They don't care about you, which

25:07

may piss you off even more. They don't even know you exist. Yeah.

25:10

Yeah. They didn't see you. Exactly.

25:13

Or even if they did, they don't care. I mean, they saw a car.

25:16

They see you. Exactly. You're anonymous.

25:20

it. Instead of you made me feel this way.

25:22

It's so simple. When you ran in

25:24

dog barking, I felt

25:27

scared. It's so simple.

25:29

Now, the dog's not defensive because now the dog can go, oh,

25:31

I'm so sorry that happened. That was

25:34

my I want to lick you face. I'm with you there. It's

25:36

the tiniest change. That's a communication

25:38

tactic. Yes.

25:39

But what it alleviates is now

25:41

we can progress. Nobody wants to be blamed.

25:43

Nobody wants to be blamed. I agree with you. Right.

25:46

And by the way, I didn't make you, I did

25:48

an action and then you had a response that was governed

25:51

by your history with dogs. Let me ask you this

25:53

as a random tangential question. Were

25:56

you blamed a lot as a kid for things that you

25:58

didn't do? Did you feel like you grew up in a. unfair

26:00

household? I can't say that it was blamed

26:03

so much but what I will say and this

26:05

is a cancerous trait of my family

26:07

is who's responsible was paramount.

26:10

That had to be figured out ASAP. If

26:13

something went wrong or someone was hurt, the

26:15

first priority was not tending to who was hurt

26:17

or fixing what was broken. It was who did

26:20

this? How did this happen? And I get it,

26:22

my mother she had three kids single mom working

26:24

midnights. There wasn't time, she had to figure

26:26

out the root cause of everything and fix the root cause.

26:29

She couldn't be dealing with the endless cycle

26:31

of this behavior so we had to find out what

26:33

caused it so we could eliminate the causality.

26:36

So it is my knee-jerk to things and I see my

26:38

little sister who's around all the time and

26:40

I have to fight it. Like if something goes wrong with the kids,

26:43

I have to go let's worry

26:45

about who's responsible in a while.

26:47

Let's just tend to the emotions right now. Right.

26:49

Do you have an aversion to being blamed? Maybe

26:51

Monica's better at answering that. Yeah, you

26:54

do. Oh, great. Then I cut

26:55

that. But so do I. I mean I don't think it's strange

26:57

that you do. I think most people don't

27:00

like being blamed.

27:01

I think the two are separate. Oh. An

27:03

aversion versus don't like, I don't think anyone he likes

27:05

being blamed. But an aversion, I'm talking like when

27:07

you have like an allergic reaction up your spine

27:09

when someone goes like, you know. I'll go along with

27:11

that. So I find there are two types of people in this scenario.

27:14

Someone accuses you of something in any way. So they go

27:16

like, hey you made a mess. And there's some people

27:19

who go, oh did I? Oh, I didn't

27:21

realize. Alright, whatever. Yeah. And then there are other people

27:23

who go, you made a mess. And I'm like, I didn't, you

27:25

should have seen this rumor. Have you seen the mess you

27:27

make? That's me. There you go. I'm the latter. Yeah.

27:30

Yeah. Are you the former of the latter? I'm actually more

27:32

like this. And I've been working on it for a while. Yeah.

27:34

You're like the latter as well. Yeah. Yeah.

27:37

Okay. Good. So that's why I'm asking

27:39

you this because I can hear. You're so cute.

27:41

Sometimes when you're talking, honestly

27:44

you're so cute that sometimes when you're talking

27:46

it's fucking distracting. And I bet

27:49

women on dates feel this way. Yeah.

27:51

I bet sometimes they look up and like seven minutes

27:53

went by and they're like, I don't know what the fuck he was saying.

27:55

But that's my own. So true.

27:58

I think there are moments. And in

28:00

that is a challenge I've issued to myself as well.

28:02

I do it. I think we could do this in society

28:05

as a whole. We can practice spending

28:08

less time just hearing

28:10

what people are saying and try

28:13

spending more time understanding

28:15

what people mean. Yeah. That would

28:17

require a lot of benefit of the doubt which seems to be scarce.

28:20

I think it's necessary. I think I get this

28:22

from language. In South Africa, we have 11 official

28:24

languages. I grew up speaking four,

28:27

five languages with my friends, with my family.

28:30

And one thing I've come to enjoy and really

28:32

appreciate over the years is that language

28:34

is a beautiful tool that

28:36

helps you get to the granularity of meaning.

28:39

But what you come to realize when you switch languages

28:41

is how that meaning can shift.

28:43

And then you realize, oh, you were speaking another

28:46

language. So when I would speak to an uncle,

28:48

a grandmother, a distant

28:50

relative, whatever, they would say something

28:53

that is incorrect because they're speaking

28:55

English and it's not their first language. They'd

28:57

say unhoused or... I

28:59

would go, that's not what they mean. Because

29:02

I understand, I would translate

29:05

from the language they originally speak. I'm

29:07

learning Spanish now very slowly. But

29:10

even in Spanish, you have to understand where

29:12

the negative goes in the sentence versus

29:14

in English. And so when somebody who's a

29:16

native Spanish speaker speaks to me in English

29:19

now, I go like, ah, I see

29:21

why you phrase the sentence like that. And I see what

29:23

you're actually trying to say versus

29:26

what you said. Yeah. And so if somebody

29:28

says to you, Dex, you made me feel shit.

29:30

What I try and do as Trevor now is I go just translate

29:33

it into, I felt shit when you did that. Yeah.

29:36

Well, by the way, this is another thing that I object

29:39

to in modern culture is that intentions

29:41

are irrelevant and they're so relevant

29:43

because that's what you're doing. You're trying to distill

29:45

the intention of what someone was saying, despite

29:48

their shortcomings and their ability to communicate.

29:50

Look, I agree with you completely, but I think we're screwed. I

29:52

think we're completely screwed. I'll tell you why. Like,

29:54

I think we live in a world where I don't think the human

29:57

brain has kept up with our level of connectivity.

29:59

The human brain is. really good at ascertaining these things.

30:01

I think the human brain is good at understanding intention

30:03

and figuring out how safe the

30:05

body it exists within is. Right

30:08

now we meet people at a rate that never, like

30:10

our brains, think of how long it took

30:12

to meet new people back in the

30:14

day. It would travel from one

30:16

side of the country to the other. Even

30:19

America as an idea worked

30:21

in many ways because the founding

30:23

fathers for all their faults and everything. They had

30:25

a really interesting idea where they went, hey we

30:28

are at limited risk of like a giant

30:31

insurrection or Civil War type

30:33

thing if we designed the country this

30:35

way because by the time they march

30:37

from California it's difficult to sustain

30:40

that you're gonna meet people, things are gonna change

30:42

by the time you get there you're like whatever. But now,

30:45

think about how many people you meet. Also

30:48

you don't know their intentions. The best thing is that there was an

30:50

enormous barrier of entry to

30:53

object to Ray's hell. Now

30:55

there's none. You see something and then the barrier

30:58

of entry is getting the thing out of your pocket. Really

31:00

what it's done is opened up the door for the laziest

31:02

people in the world to have a voice.

31:05

If I could be super pessimistic about

31:07

it. If you saw who cared about

31:09

and fought for things in the 60s, you had to get

31:11

some poster board, you had to get a piece of plywood,

31:13

you had to make a sign, you had to go take

31:15

a bus to somewhere to protest. If you had

31:17

an opinion you wanted to voice, you had to put some

31:20

fucking effort into it to be heard. And

31:22

I think now there's nothing keeping anyone

31:24

from it. On the one hand, I agree with that.

31:27

There's pros and cons. I recognize there's pros and

31:29

cons. I think the bigger issue is one that we forget

31:31

because we are always tricked into

31:33

placing the blame on ourselves as individuals

31:37

and we don't blame the industries

31:39

that have created these environments. Or the system

31:42

we live in. A simple example is recycling.

31:45

One of the greatest tricks the plastic industry ever played

31:47

on us was making it seem like it's all our

31:49

job to recycle. You recycle

31:51

your plastic or you're a bad person. They

31:54

literally started the scam. Plastic is not

31:56

recyclable the way they say it is. They came up with

31:58

this whole beer. made with

32:00

oil, like it's from the oil companies, but

32:03

they made it your responsibility. Hey, do you

32:05

recycle? Whereas the truth is, we

32:08

should limit which materials you

32:10

can make things with, which things

32:12

are disposable and which things aren't, and then you

32:14

just limit it because you have one tiny supply

32:17

that goes to billions of people. But if you shut

32:19

off that supply, we'll make things work. We can carry

32:21

things in different vessels. We've

32:23

done it. People are like, how am I going to drink my water?

32:26

We've done it. We'll be fine. And I think the same thing

32:28

goes for social media. We've

32:30

been quick to blame every

32:33

person. But really, if you just look

32:35

at the little spigot at the top, just look at the force

32:37

that is controlled. It's less the fact

32:40

that Dax has an opinion. It's less the fact that

32:42

Monica has an opinion. It's less the fact that Trevor has an opinion.

32:44

It is more the fact that Facebook,

32:47

Twitter, TikTok, whatever it may

32:49

be, takes that opinion and

32:52

purposefully puts it in front of somebody

32:54

who does not share that opinion so that

32:57

they can be riled up. And I think that's

32:59

what's created more of an issue. If you,

33:01

as Dax tweets, good morning, everybody.

33:03

What a beautiful day. All

33:06

the people who are having the same feeling about a beautiful

33:08

day will not see that message. But

33:11

if you tweet out, woke up

33:13

this morning, I think all short

33:15

people should die. They're a waste of

33:17

space. Guess who sees it. Guess

33:20

who goes to it. Guess who's

33:22

right. And those things see it and they go, okay, Monica, did

33:24

you see what he just

33:28

said? And what's amazing to me is I even find myself

33:31

doing this where I go like, even if you don't click

33:33

it, if you don't tweet it, if you don't reach it, if you don't comment,

33:35

they know how long you looked at it. And that anger,

33:38

that moment where you go, I can't believe it. And

33:40

then you scroll on, but they know and they've got you

33:42

and they do it again and they do it again and they do it again. Stay

33:45

tuned for more Armchair Expert.

33:49

If you dare. We

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are supported by Vital Farms and

33:54

guess what, Monica? I'm back.

33:57

You're back in the egg game. I am in the egg

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34:50

Okay, so

34:51

me making that statement really should have come

34:54

on the heels of what was a question

34:56

about your own career. Because

34:58

when I was thinking about that you had done The Daily

35:01

Show for seven years, and I saw you on

35:03

a talk show making

35:05

an analogy that it's

35:07

like planning a wedding. It's a very great

35:09

analogy of what your day-to-day life was like

35:12

on The Daily Show, which is like, you could probably, I

35:14

don't want to take the words out of your mouth. No, no, no. It seems like it's

35:16

fresh in your mind. You're picking the guests,

35:18

you're picking the food, you're picking the music,

35:21

you're arranging what speeches will be made,

35:23

and then you have the wedding, and

35:25

then that night you go, okay, we got to make a wedding

35:28

tomorrow. Yeah. So I love

35:30

that analogy. And what I

35:32

wondered, and you said to feed that

35:34

inferno, you have to be reading

35:36

the news in the morning when you wake up, you have to be reading

35:39

it at night, you were at parties reading the news.

35:41

So the comment I just made five minutes ago

35:43

is really my response to thinking

35:46

about the fact that you were consuming news

35:48

for seven years all day long. And I want to

35:50

know what effect you think that had on

35:52

you. And my comment about the barrier

35:55

to participate was this. I think

35:57

there's an illusion that other people who don't even

35:59

have a show... that they have to fill. We are also

36:01

consuming news from morning till

36:04

night. Oh, interesting. And because

36:06

they can go to this device and comment

36:09

on it, they feel like they're participating. So

36:11

everyone's, in my humble opinion,

36:14

way too politicized. They're only really

36:17

voting once every four years. If they're super

36:19

involved, they're voting in midterms. So they're

36:21

voting twice every four years. They're

36:23

not out in front of City Hall. They're not writing emails

36:26

to their congresspeople. They're not doing

36:28

anything other than tweeting

36:30

about their reaction, which makes them feel like

36:32

they're participating, which keeps the cycle

36:34

going. I wonder if they had no outlet

36:38

to respond to the news they watched, if the news

36:40

itself would have the interest it has. And

36:42

so I'm just wondering, what was your pre-Daily Show

36:45

appetite for news and then post-show

36:47

what's it been like? And when you've reflected, do you

36:50

think it had any kind of effect

36:53

on your life as it was happening? Okay,

36:55

I'll answer that. I'll just go back to that last part

36:57

of what you said, because I really liked it. You

37:00

said people feel like they have

37:02

an outlet and they have a platform. But

37:04

again, I go to, I think it's less about

37:07

the outlet and the platform, and more

37:09

about how they are rewarded for how they

37:11

respond or react on that platform. The

37:13

incentives. The incentives. One of the best examples

37:16

of this is streakers

37:18

at games, baseball games,

37:21

soccer games, etc. People used

37:23

to run on the pitch naked all the

37:25

time. Love it. They'd run on the field naked

37:28

and the cameras would chase them and then the grounds

37:30

people would have to chase them and tackle them

37:33

and you'd be watching and cheering. And

37:35

then what happened at some point? Some genius,

37:38

brilliant move said, hey, whenever this happens,

37:40

whether they're naked or not, you

37:42

don't show them on camera. You take the camera, point

37:45

it away, and that's it. And all of a sudden,

37:47

the rates of people running on a field dropped. Yeah.

37:50

Because now you didn't get the reward of

37:52

being the person who has disrupted everything.

37:54

Everyone's just really trying

37:57

to be relevant.

37:58

And to be seen. To be seen. I like that. Yeah,

38:00

to be seen. To be seen. No one

38:02

may exist. Yeah. You want to be a part

38:04

of something. We all just want to be a part

38:05

of something. You'll do whatever you can to get there. And

38:08

if it means yelling at someone on social

38:10

media, then that's what it means. That's what's working

38:12

for you. I agree. You can't really blame the

38:14

people so much because they're doing what

38:16

we're all doing. We're just doing it in

38:18

a different way.

38:19

Yeah, I'm trying to get all the attention. I know. But

38:22

I'm honest about it. I know. Okay,

38:24

so now going back to the daily show side of things, did

38:26

I notice a difference? Beyond a difference.

38:29

Tell me. Say more, as

38:31

you would say. Touche. The

38:34

greatest con, one of the greatest

38:36

cons ever played on the American

38:38

public, and it's growing around the world, is

38:41

the idea that people need to be continuously

38:44

plugged into the news. You

38:47

need to have CNN on 24 hours a day. You

38:50

need to have your Fox News playing in the background.

38:53

You need to have your alerts on your phone. God

38:55

forbid you miss something from the New York

38:58

Times. You need to know it immediately.

39:01

What if something happens in Yemen? I need to do

39:03

something from Cleveland, Ohio.

39:05

I need to participate. I need to

39:07

know. We don't. We need

39:09

to be informed, but we don't

39:12

need to like mainline news because

39:14

news, by its very nature, unfortunately,

39:17

is oftentimes the reporting

39:19

of things that have gone wrong. Yes. Right?

39:23

That is what it is. That

39:26

is what it is doing. But I remember growing

39:28

up in South Africa. I

39:30

guess this was similar to like an earlier time in America.

39:32

We had no cable news, no nothing. We still don't really

39:35

have that. But the news came on twice

39:37

a day, one in the morning, one in the evening,

39:39

and you would watch it for 30 minutes

39:42

or an hour. And as a child, I would

39:44

sit there with my parents. Hated this because I was like,

39:46

I want to watch Family Matters and stuff. And

39:48

now the news... Check out what's happening over here. Are you kidding

39:50

me? I'm waiting for Steve Urkel. You're actually

39:52

showing me stories that are happening in Sudan. Come

39:55

on. Yeah. But I would sit there.

39:58

And you know what happened? I was informed. I

40:00

knew what was happening in Rwanda. I

40:02

knew what was taking place in the UK. I

40:04

knew what was going on in America. I knew what was happening

40:06

in South Africa. I'm also guessing that newsfeed was half local

40:08

stuff, which is also when I was a kid, it was like

40:11

you were learning actually about your community.

40:14

Once cable news realized it could generate

40:16

profits, and I think it was Ezra's

40:18

brilliant documentary on OJ that showed

40:21

that was the launch of 24-hour cable news. Once

40:23

they realized that we were all screwed, and I've realized

40:25

that it's like I don't know any less than I did

40:27

before, but I don't live in it.

40:30

Most importantly, I now provide

40:33

for myself a level of context

40:36

that I always felt was missing and I still feel

40:38

is missing in a lot of the dialogue that people have.

40:41

People report on a mass shooting while it's

40:43

happening, and then they just give you incorrect

40:46

information. Hey, there's a shooter. The

40:48

shooter's here. They shot 10 people. Actually,

40:50

we're wrong. There were 10 shooters, and they shot one person

40:52

in the building. Actually, we're wrong. There's no building.

40:55

They're outside the building. They're in your house. You're

40:57

the shooter. We just updated reports. Actually,

41:00

and it's just like, wait, what just happened here? I know.

41:03

What are you doing? Do you know what I mean? Like, what

41:05

are you doing? They're occupying all of our attention.

41:08

But that's my problem. Whereas, it's not because of not

41:10

caring. It's quite the opposite. If you

41:12

pause, there's a shooting taking place

41:14

anyway. You know who that matters to? The

41:17

people where the shooting is happening. No one else

41:19

in that moment, because we cannot do anything

41:21

about it. All we can do is be afraid or

41:23

enraged. What they can do is tell you

41:25

about it once they know all the facts. So

41:28

welcome to the news. Yesterday, there

41:31

was a shooting in this place. It was this

41:33

person. Turns out it wasn't you. They were

41:35

doing this. Good news. Good news. And

41:37

here's all the information that you may need to know,

41:39

and then we go from there. I'll go a step further. There's

41:42

also potentially the streaker analogy

41:45

to be implied here, which is, I don't

41:47

know if we should be even doing

41:50

it. It's not slowing it down. It doesn't

41:52

help us to know. They all know Glory's

41:54

on the other side. In their warped view of Glory,

41:56

they know their name will be all over the

41:58

world. I think that's

42:01

the same motivation as the Streaker. Yeah.

42:03

Do you remember, you know what I always think of when I see these mass

42:05

shooters and everyone puts their faces? First

42:07

of all, I don't think the new should ever put their face on TV.

42:09

No. They don't deserve it. Or their name. I

42:11

don't think their name's not relevant. I agree with you there. Why

42:14

are we giving these people, you're memorializing

42:16

them, no face, no name, no nothing,

42:19

once you've caught the put- That's it. Because exactly

42:21

what you're saying, you are creating this perverse

42:24

incentive to be seen. And

42:26

you know what it always reminds me of? You've watched Mad Max,

42:28

the reboot, right? Oh, yeah. Remember what they say whenever

42:30

they're spraying their stuff? I don't remember. They spray

42:32

like the silver thing and then they say, witness

42:35

me. Oh. Oh. That's what

42:37

they always say, right? Oh, I like that. And then they

42:39

jump off the cars and they're like, ah, witness

42:42

me. Yeah, see me. See

42:44

me? Hey, mom, look. See me.

42:46

Oh, god. We're all kids. That's

42:49

so sad. Truly. I know. Mom, look, I'm stepping over

42:51

this pencil on the ground. Yeah. Wow.

42:54

You sure did. You made it. Look, I climbed on this

42:56

branch now, mom.

42:57

Okay, we see. I have a question, though, because

43:00

this just came up on one of our other shows. We have

43:02

a show with a person who's a very informed

43:05

journalist. And we recorded the other day and

43:07

she was obviously very down. And

43:10

I said, what's up? And she said, I'm just

43:12

really affected by what's

43:15

going on in the world. And

43:18

I said, I understand that. It's

43:20

horrible. Why are you still looking

43:22

at it? And she was like, we have to

43:24

be informed, which I was like, you can be informed without

43:27

just inundating yourself with all the horrific

43:30

images. But to her, she thinks

43:32

that it's too privileged

43:35

for us, because we live here, to turn our

43:38

heads and not have to look because they have to live

43:40

it. And I think at some point in my life, I would have

43:42

agreed. And now I just I don't

43:44

see what our sadness

43:46

is doing for them.

43:47

How is it helping? Right. What

43:50

do you think? I can see both arguments.

43:53

And I think they both depend on what you're trying

43:55

to achieve. If you are struggling

43:58

emotionally and you're trying to find

44:00

the moment of reprieve, then I don't think

44:02

you should be looking. I think you should be taking a break and you

44:04

should be taking a moment. For yourself. Yeah.

44:07

But we should never deny the power

44:09

and the impact of imagery to

44:12

get people who may not

44:14

be affected to care about something.

44:16

Were it not for the images taken during everything

44:19

that happened in Alabama, would the civil

44:21

rights movements have been where it got to in America?

44:24

I doubt it. If people didn't see those kids

44:26

hit with water hoses and the dogs, I

44:29

don't know that it would have gotten as far. And so there

44:31

is unfortunately a necessary side

44:34

of people seeing things that

44:36

make them aware of a situation. However,

44:39

there is also a world where some

44:41

people wish to be almost in

44:44

a state of constant self-flagellation because

44:46

your awareness doesn't change between

44:48

picture one and picture 50. Right.

44:51

Exactly. You don't need further proof that

44:53

you're appalled by that. My

44:56

issue with that is your example of the civil rights

44:58

movement. Of course. But also there's

45:00

action to be taken by a citizen. You're going

45:02

to go vote for somebody that is either pro

45:04

civil rights or against civil rights. You're also going

45:06

to, you can boycott the diner that's not

45:08

letting black folks sit there. There's things you

45:10

can do. Many of these things across

45:13

the world, you don't have

45:16

a role in. There's almost an arrogance to

45:18

the notion that you have a role

45:20

in it. When actually you consume it,

45:22

you're upset. You might argue with a neighbor

45:24

on Twitter, but you've not done anything. You've

45:26

not flown there. You've not sent money. You've not appealed

45:29

to a congressperson to increase spending. Now,

45:31

if you're the person who gets activated

45:34

by that and then goes and creates

45:37

change, keep at it. But if you're

45:39

someone that's consuming it and wallowing

45:41

it and fighting with your neighbors over it, there's

45:43

nothing productive about it. Minimally, we could say you're

45:46

not impacting the situation

45:48

whatsoever. I don't think that that's true. If

45:50

you look at some of the biggest movements

45:53

that have taken place over the past decade,

45:56

many of them just started on social media.

45:58

I mean, the Arab Spring is a great thing. great example.

46:00

They were on Twitter going, let's meet in this

46:03

square in protest. Yes. That was an actionable

46:05

outcome. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you there. The people that were

46:08

fighting in Cleveland over it. Right.

46:10

They had no impact. I hear

46:12

you there. That's again where we go to, I

46:15

always want to be careful to not live in a world

46:17

where I'm telling people how to feel or how to

46:19

act. I would rather be in a world where

46:22

I'm saying we need to regulate how

46:25

the platforms incentivize how

46:28

people act or don't act. So I

46:30

don't think there's anything wrong with anyone feeling

46:33

for anyone anywhere in the world. You may

46:35

go, hey man, I've seen what's happening

46:38

in Sudan and I think as Americans

46:40

we have a responsibility in some way shape or form

46:43

to assist them. You have a right to feel that

46:45

as an American, you have a right to feel that as a human being.

46:47

I don't think that that's a bad thing at all. Oh,

46:49

I love that. But if you're fighting the person in the grocery

46:52

store that has no power in the Sudan.

46:54

But this is exactly what I'm saying. Again, we go

46:56

back to, unfortunately, it's that circular,

46:58

it's back to what we've believed the efficacy

47:01

is. I think we're currently living in a world

47:03

where we have way

47:05

more information than we've ever

47:08

had access to. The constant paradox I

47:10

exist within is understanding that

47:13

the world has never been in a better place ever.

47:16

Right. There has never been a single better

47:18

time that we know of where it was

47:20

better to be alive as a human being. Yeah.

47:23

Less starvation, less disease, less death

47:25

by. Everything. Infant mortality,

47:28

poverty, all these things. However,

47:31

as that curve has

47:33

gradually gotten better, the curve

47:36

of how much information we have has exponentially

47:39

gotten higher. So now

47:41

you are finding out day on day

47:44

your house is being repaired, you're

47:46

plugging leaks, you're painting over

47:48

cracks, things are going well. But while

47:51

this is happening, you're doing one repair day and

47:53

every day you're getting a hundred reports on

47:56

termites, on mold, on

47:59

foundational issues. on retaining walls

48:01

and your brain is going, this house is worse,

48:04

but really, really what you've done

48:06

is you've just flipped the level of information and how

48:08

you get it. And so I think that's where we're

48:10

in trouble as people, is we then feel

48:12

powerless. And when we're powerless,

48:15

one of the things we can do is

48:17

just fight with the closest person to make

48:19

it feel like we did something because then it feels like

48:21

we helped. I saw Dax Shepard

48:23

at Trader Joe's and I told him, I

48:26

said, you say homeless one

48:28

more time. I swear to God, Dax,

48:30

oh, I told him, honey. And yeah,

48:33

I made a difference. He won't be saying that anytime

48:36

soon. I told him and I walked

48:38

out of that CVS and, oh man,

48:40

and then a homeless guy came up to me. I mean, an under housing

48:42

guy came up to me and those people, oh, they

48:45

need to do something about them. But I

48:47

told Dax, oh, I told him. It's

48:50

easier because you feel like you have more power, I

48:52

think. Forgive me for repeating

48:55

this, but I majored in anthropology. So for

48:57

me, everything goes back into the anthropological lens,

49:00

which is we were designed and evolved

49:02

over 300,000 years to live with 100 other people. So

49:06

in your lifespan with 100 other people,

49:09

you might witness a murder or two.

49:11

You might hear of some atrocity

49:14

towards a child, one or two.

49:17

In a day, you can consume

49:19

more atrocity than you were designed

49:22

to consume in your lifetime. That's

49:25

the issue. To your point, you keep

49:27

saying our brains are not evolved to function this

49:29

way, and they're not. So at

49:32

some level, you just have to take responsibility

49:34

for the capacity you have as a human

49:36

being, and you have to maybe

49:38

address, is this over the

49:40

capacity for me? For your own health.

49:43

Yeah. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm

49:45

just saying. No, no, no, I'm with you completely. And I think it's unfair and

49:47

unfortunate that it happens so quickly,

49:50

just like food, that we haven't had the

49:52

chance. It's like we always tell people, hey, eat

49:54

healthy. What we don't say is, most

49:57

of the food that's out there is gonna trick your brain

49:59

into thinking that it's... is good for you and you're gonna crave

50:01

it. This is beyond your control sometimes. And

50:03

the taste will dissipate really quickly as designed

50:05

by the chemist. And that's why Ozempic

50:07

is actually in a weird way this miracle

50:10

drug. It's combating the other science.

50:13

Yeah, it's literally crashing all

50:15

of the nefarious things we've created for so

50:17

long. Going back to what you were

50:19

saying about your friend, if we can just get to

50:21

a space as people where we're all taught

50:24

to check in on ourselves, I

50:27

think we can find a way to mitigate

50:30

how quickly our technology has evolved beyond

50:33

us. Just taking moments.

50:35

Like I wish everyone was taught, first

50:37

thing in the morning,

50:39

take 10 minutes

50:40

before you look at your phone, before you do anything.

50:42

Just take 10 minutes to talk to yourself. Set

50:45

a timer, just go like, how do I feel? Did

50:47

I dream about anything? What do I wanna do today? What

50:49

have I been feeling lately? Huh, is this the same thought I keep

50:52

having every day? Why do I have that? All

50:54

right, let's get rid of that. And then do it again at night. Just 10 minutes before

50:56

you go to bed. Just sit there and go, huh,

50:59

okay.

51:00

You know, I think of it like a computer. Whenever you

51:02

turn a computer on or whenever you turn it off, it

51:04

just thinks for a moment. I get this shit

51:06

together. It just thinks for a moment. It just thinks up

51:08

or. When it starts up, it just goes like, wait, wait, wait. What am I trying to

51:10

do? Oh yeah, yeah, I'm trying to load that. Okay, okay,

51:12

I'm ready, I'm ready now. And then when it shuts down, it's like, hold

51:15

on, hold on a second, hold on. Okay,

51:17

what was I doing? Okay, cool, cool, okay, okay, okay, I can turn

51:19

off. Yeah. We're no different

51:21

in that way. But what we're doing is we're turning on or

51:23

turning off our computers

51:25

instantly with no preparation

51:28

for what may come or what has come. No,

51:30

you turn it on and start trying to

51:32

load up a video package. You know, like

51:35

the most labor-intensive thing for the computer,

51:37

you know, rendering a video

51:39

file as soon as it's on. Now,

51:42

I guess you're, what, you're two years out of Daily

51:44

Show? No, this is one year. Forgive

51:47

my ignorance. No, no, no, please. Are you good at measuring

51:49

time? The worst. I'm terrible.

51:52

I don't know when a thing happened. I don't know how long

51:54

it was or wasn't. I just remember the images.

51:57

I know 93 when I graduated high

51:59

school. I know. 22,000 when I graduate

52:01

I know when I got my first acting job and I know where my

52:03

kids were born So everything's just in between those

52:05

yardsticks. Otherwise, no

52:07

when we start the show, you know that

52:09

I know it'll be six years on Valentine's

52:11

Day Yeah, but I don't know a year that makes

52:15

2018 okay Co

52:18

bear when you were being interviewed by him. He's like

52:20

we had dinner spring of 2017 or

52:23

he said a month. Yeah, and I was like, oh

52:25

my god. I can't yeah, I don't know how people

52:28

yeah, it's beyond me Okay, so I

52:30

don't want to drag you through your trauma,

52:32

but your life story is so interesting So

52:34

I guess I would just encourage people to read your book because it's

52:36

really really I appreciate it incredibly

52:39

moving and dynamic and complicated

52:41

childhood I mean, it's crazy to

52:44

me to think someone alive today

52:46

actually was a child in apartheid for some reason

52:49

that seems like That should have

52:51

ended by the time you were born in 84, right? I

52:53

guess I saw this is so embarrassing, but

52:55

I'm not too embarrassed I was eight years old my

52:58

introduction to apartheid was it was this plot

53:00

line and lethal weapon? Yes,

53:02

we didn't know I was so happy about that. Yes

53:05

I remember watching that that was one of my favorite lethal

53:07

weapons ever And so I was

53:09

watching that at whatever that was eight years old I'm

53:12

like, hold on they still have that

53:15

so to know that it ended in 91 and

53:18

you would have I guess been Seven years old.

53:20

Yeah in the notion that you were

53:22

I find it's very fascinating

53:24

that in the Strata system

53:26

there was black white and colored

53:29

and you were in this no man's land strata

53:31

with ding ding ding the Indians Oh,

53:33

look at that. Yeah, that sounds like from

53:36

another century. It really is It's

53:38

something that you would find in a dystopian novel

53:41

where you have a society where everybody

53:43

is broken up But on a granular

53:45

level because the mistake people make is they

53:47

think it was just black white. No, no, no, no No

53:50

in South Africa. I write this in the book is apartheid

53:53

was such a genius Evil

53:55

system. I often think to myself

53:57

I go man. I wish we could find a way to

54:00

like distill the power

54:02

and the ingenuity that racists have. Can

54:04

we get you working on cancer? Seriously.

54:07

You have a great mind. Not for the lazy. How

54:09

did you think of this? I would just like ignore

54:11

the people I don't like you. Yeah,

54:13

yeah. Systematic. A lot of energy. They

54:16

designed a system where they studied systems

54:18

of racism around the world. So they looked at

54:20

America and its segregation and

54:22

they're like, okay, Jim Crow, redlining,

54:25

all of this. And they're like, hmm, could be better. They

54:28

went as human. Not a bad start. Yeah. They

54:30

went to Australia. They looked at how they dealt with

54:33

the Aboriginal population. They were like, oh,

54:35

all right, mean, but not effective

54:37

enough. They went to the Netherlands and

54:39

they're like, all right, let's study. And that's where the word apartheid comes

54:41

from, is from the Netherlands. And then they were like, okay,

54:44

I think we have figured out what to do

54:46

and how to do this. They put it all

54:48

together, I think with like a dash of Hitler's

54:51

policies, if I remember correctly. What

54:53

year was this? 40s or 50s? You say again,

54:55

you've tossed me for years. Yeah, yeah, sorry. 50s,

54:57

60s, actually somewhere more there. Oh, okay. I

55:00

think so. Again, years. Yeah, it's

55:02

terrible years. And then they designed the system and

55:05

they went, if you're Walt,

55:07

you have access to everything. You can do everything. But

55:10

this is what people don't even realize is it affected

55:12

you on every level. So if

55:14

you're white, you could live in certain areas. So

55:17

black was the bottom of the totem pole. Think of it that way.

55:20

And as your skin tone gets lighter and

55:22

lighter and closer to white and your features get closer

55:24

to white, your life gets better. You can live closer

55:26

to the city. You can go to better schools.

55:28

You can get better jobs. You can have

55:31

a better education. Black people

55:33

at some point weren't allowed to learn math

55:36

or science. They were taught agriculture.

55:39

They were taught vocations. And you move

55:41

up the list in prison. People

55:44

were treated differently. So white

55:47

prisoners were given long pants

55:49

and long shirts. And

55:51

then black prisoners were given short pants

55:54

and short sleeve shirts. Even

55:56

when you're prisoners, they go like, yeah, but you're not the

55:58

same, the same. The

56:01

food you were given in the prison was even different.

56:03

So you would get like a piece of white

56:05

bread, a bigger piece, tea,

56:08

etc. because you were white. It

56:11

is amazing how deep and detailed

56:13

they went into this. And they created

56:15

a system where everyone fits

56:18

into a box. The strangest one and the weirdest

56:20

one by the way was Chinese people

56:22

were labeled as same status

56:25

as pseudo black in a way. Maybe

56:27

around Indian-ish but like black. But then Japanese

56:30

people were given honorary white status. Oh

56:32

wow. Sure. Because the apartheid

56:34

government wanted the technology and the

56:36

cars and everything and they're like, you guys are honorary

56:39

whites. Yeah, Toyotas are pretty dependable. Which is why.

56:41

China doesn't have any cars yet. But

56:44

it shows you how arbitrary the system is. And

56:47

it was illegal for your mom and dad. My mom's

56:49

a black woman, also a woman in South Africa. So

56:51

beautiful. I saw videos of her when I was watching

56:53

the 60 Minutes piece. Thank you very much. And

56:55

yeah, my father's a white man from Switzerland and

56:58

they got together. This was against the law. And

57:00

then my mom wanted to have a

57:02

child

57:03

and she wanted to have it with my dad. And

57:05

then I always ask her about this. I'm like, did you

57:07

consider like the fact that I would

57:09

come out? She's like, I don't know how you'd look. You know what

57:11

I mean? She's like, come on. I didn't know how you'd

57:13

look. Because also it's not like it was happening so readily. But

57:16

you're like, I know what this turns into. Yeah,

57:18

yeah, yeah.

57:18

But if it's illegal and then

57:20

you're born, is it just like giving

57:22

it up?

57:23

So my grand told me, and I didn't

57:25

know this growing up, thank goodness, that

57:27

had they ever discovered me, I would have just been

57:29

taken away from my family. I would have

57:31

been put into like an orphanage type thing

57:34

or I would have been adopted by what they

57:36

call a colored family. So someone of my skin

57:38

tone. Good luck finding the pool is

57:40

small where you're going to land if that's the option.

57:42

Surprisingly not. It's not. So

57:44

this is a crazy interesting thing. In South Africa, because

57:47

these systems were created on something

57:49

that existed for so long, in America, the

57:51

word colored is from a bygone era and

57:53

it's a derogatory term. But in South

57:55

Africa,

57:56

colored people

57:58

are a culture. There's nothing wrong with the word

58:00

in South Africa and what it was is

58:02

a group of people who were the

58:05

descendants of the traders who

58:07

came in and the natives of the

58:09

area and through either marriage

58:11

or through rape or whatever it was over

58:14

time, there was enough of a population

58:16

of just literally like mixed people. Did they

58:18

have their own towns? Yeah, colored

58:20

people speak their language in a very

58:22

particular way. They have their own cuisine, they

58:24

have their own culture and it's a very proud and beautiful

58:27

culture and so from this horribleness

58:29

came this beautiful world. People know

58:31

me in South Africa, they know my family, they know my history but

58:33

when I was growing up many people would assume that

58:36

I was colored and I'm not colored,

58:38

I'm colored by color but not by culture which is

58:40

complicated and so then even they would be like, what

58:43

the hell is wrong with you? And I'd be like, oh well, long story,

58:45

my dad, my mom, it's a whole thing. You were being actively

58:47

hidden by your family basically. Yeah, yeah. That

58:50

kind of makes sense if it's illegal. And his grandpa

58:53

called a master. Yeah, which I thought was

58:55

just a nickname. Yeah. Wow.

58:58

So I thought it was like a cute little... Giving you arbitrary

59:00

status to be cute. As a joke. Yeah.

59:04

So he just woke up and he'd be like, master, how are you today master? How was

59:06

your morning? I'd be like, oh, it was great grandpa.

59:08

Yeah, thanks for calling me that. That's cool. Yeah,

59:11

it's like fun. Yeah, exactly. It's like calling

59:13

a little kid box or something. Yeah, boss

59:15

or... Hello, Mr. Man. Yeah. Explain

59:18

this to me. Again, I gotta kind of fast forward through your trauma and I hate to

59:21

not give it the proper lead up in time, but your

59:23

first stepdad was violent

59:25

towards you and mom and then

59:27

they got divorced after four years. And then when your

59:29

mother remarried, he came

59:31

and shot your mom in the leg and in the head.

59:34

Yeah. Oh, I mean, just fuck. Fuck,

59:36

fuck, fuck. How did he only get

59:38

three years? Is apartheid involved

59:41

in that sentence? No, no. This

59:43

is a black man shooting a black woman. This

59:45

is unfortunately a symptom of a system

59:48

that I think we see all over the world. And

59:50

that is that women aren't protected

59:53

in the way that they should be. And they mean

59:55

black on top of it. Yeah. Our

59:57

judicial systems have been designed... protect

1:00:00

the people who created them. And

1:00:03

there's no denying that men for a long time have

1:00:05

skirted on this whole idea of, you know, when women say

1:00:07

something, they'll be like, but what did you do? What

1:00:09

did you say to him? What did you wear? Did

1:00:11

you make him angry? I don't think your husband

1:00:13

would just hit you. Come on. I mean, what was

1:00:15

dinner that night? Was it delicious? Why don't you go

1:00:18

home and talk to him? Come on, lady.

1:00:20

It just sends such a clear message. We

1:00:22

don't give a fuck about you. Yeah, it does.

1:00:24

Unfortunately. How do you deal with male authority

1:00:27

figures? I don't understand why

1:00:29

they would be different to female authority figures.

1:00:31

For me, they're different because my mother was very

1:00:34

loving and kind and my stepdads were atrocious.

1:00:37

And they came in and enacted a new policy

1:00:39

that made no sense to me and they were a new boss.

1:00:41

So when I have bosses and male figures and

1:00:43

teachers, I go, Oh, here's another fucking

1:00:46

man with some program I got to follow that is

1:00:48

arbitrary and makes no sense. And fuck

1:00:50

you. I'll die before I'll participate.

1:00:52

And it's to my detriment. I've had the hardest

1:00:54

time with like male authority figures. Huh?

1:00:57

No, you don't have any of them. No, no, no. I've actually

1:01:00

always enjoyed authority figures. Really?

1:01:02

I'm just like, Okay, this is interesting. You've got

1:01:05

rules and you've got like a plan. Let's see where this thing

1:01:07

goes. Oh, wow. I'm envious of that. What

1:01:09

I hate is unfairness. Authority

1:01:11

figures that abuse their power. I don't care for

1:01:13

that at all. Police managers,

1:01:16

you name it that I don't. It doesn't trigger any child.

1:01:19

No, no, no, no, for me. Not at

1:01:21

all. I'm aspiring to that. Were

1:01:22

you there when he came and did that?

1:01:25

No, I feel like I was, but no,

1:01:27

no, my two younger brothers were there. Which were the

1:01:29

children of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So

1:01:31

they watched their father. Yeah. So

1:01:34

I always say we're all traumatized, but I think I got

1:01:36

the least traumatic experience. And it was my

1:01:38

younger brother who saved my mom's life. I don't even know

1:01:40

how he did this. He threw her into the

1:01:43

passenger seat of the car and raced her to the hospital.

1:01:45

She wouldn't have survived if it wasn't for him.

1:01:46

How old was he?

1:01:48

I'm gonna guess and say he was between 14

1:01:50

and 16. Stay

1:01:54

tuned for more armchair expert.

1:01:57

If you dare.

1:02:01

This is gonna be my last run at some similarities.

1:02:09

So far I'm 0 for 2 which is

1:02:12

great. So this will

1:02:14

be a strikeout. Go. Well

1:02:16

in the 60... I love 60 Minutes by the way. It's

1:02:18

my church. I've been watching since I was a year

1:02:20

old and my grandparents watched it. I love it. So

1:02:23

I remember seeing the segment that you were on before

1:02:25

I rewatched it today. It was a great, great

1:02:28

segment. As long as these dolls come at you hard

1:02:30

to talk about relationships, you're not having it.

1:02:33

You're like, I don't want to talk about who my girlfriend

1:02:35

is or anything. And I totally

1:02:38

respect that. I don't want to know who you're dating at all. But

1:02:40

I did wonder, this is my projection,

1:02:42

because I had a mom who had

1:02:45

multiple husbands and they would go

1:02:47

and then it'd be us again and we'd

1:02:50

be kind of the partners and

1:02:52

then a new guy would roll up and then we weren't the partners

1:02:54

for a while and then we were the partners. And

1:02:56

that gave me a kind of built-in

1:02:59

commitment phobia because I was

1:03:01

already married. I was married from day

1:03:03

one. I had this single mom and a lot

1:03:05

of her emotional well-being depended

1:03:08

on me. And I think I felt the weight

1:03:10

of that. And when I got out of that, I

1:03:12

think more similar. I talk to my mom nonstop. I'm

1:03:14

so close to her. She's loved my life. But

1:03:17

also I was like, I already got... I

1:03:19

don't want to sign up for another lifetime commitment

1:03:21

because I already had this one that started really early

1:03:24

and is a little cumbersome. And I'm just curious,

1:03:26

I don't want to know who you're dating or anything, but I wonder if that

1:03:28

ring at all true to your experience? So

1:03:31

you are 0 for 3, but I will

1:03:33

say this. Let's go... I'll start with you.

1:03:35

Just drug out. Maybe we'll make it like an 0.25. Okay.

1:03:38

So where we do overlap is this. I

1:03:41

definitely grew up and where

1:03:43

I exist on my scale is I

1:03:46

definitely grew up in a world where I

1:03:48

was always ready for something to disappear

1:03:50

or to go away. But not because of that. I

1:03:53

think it's because I grew up

1:03:55

in a world and in a space where things were constantly

1:03:58

changing around me. And so... It's

1:04:00

interesting when you say it that way. What I struggled

1:04:02

with and it's something that I continuously

1:04:05

try and work on because it hasn't just gone

1:04:07

away overnight. I don't have commitment

1:04:09

issues, but I will

1:04:11

have issues working through

1:04:14

an incessant and persistent issue

1:04:16

with a person. You as Dax,

1:04:19

you have an issue, you rev

1:04:21

your motorbike really loudly whenever you

1:04:23

come home. Let's deal with this. You

1:04:25

say as Dax, I'm trying to change this. Okay

1:04:28

Dax, cool. What are you going to do to

1:04:30

change it? Well, what I'll do is I'll turn off

1:04:32

the bike at the gate and then I'll roll it in. Okay

1:04:34

Dax, cool. We're doing this. Tomorrow

1:04:36

comes. What happened Dax? Yeah,

1:04:41

well, man, you know, just damn. When the pipes,

1:04:43

man, the pipes just got me. Okay Dax, cool.

1:04:47

Wow. It seems like you're sorry, Trev,

1:04:50

sorry. I'm so sorry. It's just that sometimes

1:04:52

when you look at me outside the window, you

1:04:54

make me want to rev the bike because

1:04:57

I'm like, oh, someone's looking at me so I should rev. Well,

1:04:59

you're so tall you're triggering. I got to learn

1:05:01

some dominance. And so what I really

1:05:03

struggle with is I'm a very patient

1:05:05

person when I believe that somebody's

1:05:08

learning and changing. I'm

1:05:10

terrible at dealing with the same

1:05:12

problem from the same person

1:05:15

over and over again. And I understand

1:05:18

from all my friends who are married and from

1:05:20

therapy and all these things that that is probably

1:05:22

what you're going to be doing. But

1:05:25

man, my brain struggles with that. I'm

1:05:28

not going to be here late. I have said the words out loud

1:05:30

to someone I loved, I will be

1:05:32

here forever if I know you're engaged

1:05:34

in the fight. But if you have accepted this,

1:05:36

I'm out. I can't spend the rest

1:05:39

of my life. If I know you're engaged

1:05:41

in the fight and I believe that, I'm patient. But

1:05:43

I know exactly what we're talking about. I have to believe

1:05:45

the person's truly engaged in the fight. They

1:05:47

have some action they're taking to confront

1:05:49

this. Yeah, because this is how I see it. I think

1:05:52

we want to be in a space as people when we, especially

1:05:54

when we're in a relationship, I'm under no illusion

1:05:56

that anyone is going to be perfect. I'm not perfect.

1:05:59

I'm far from perfect. However,

1:06:01

I would hope that I'm the kind of person who

1:06:04

increases the amount of time between my

1:06:07

sort of infractions, between my breakouts

1:06:10

if we think of them like skin. It's like, alright,

1:06:12

alright, let's try and minimize these breakouts. I see

1:06:14

that I do this, I'm going to try not to, and then

1:06:16

I think in a good relationship what you're doing is you're going,

1:06:19

okay, I see that you're putting in that work

1:06:21

and when it does happen, alright, you lost

1:06:23

your clue with that or you argued about that

1:06:25

unnecessarily or you would inconsiderate.

1:06:27

Okay, but I think sometimes what

1:06:30

happens, and this is tough, I'll give you

1:06:32

one, we will be one for four together, how about I throw this at

1:06:34

you? If you grow up

1:06:36

in an environment that is unhealthy, if

1:06:38

you grow up in an environment where you don't have the

1:06:41

role models or the imagery that

1:06:43

gives you an idea of what you're trying to strive for,

1:06:46

how do you then know when you have hit it? You

1:06:48

do not. And so unfortunately,

1:06:50

most of us go for what is familiar.

1:06:53

And if you've grown up in a dysfunctional world,

1:06:55

in a dysfunctional home, in a dysfunctional family,

1:06:58

dysfunction is familiar. The unknown

1:07:00

is scary. Not even scary. Sometimes

1:07:03

it's just like, people say, there are no sparks.

1:07:05

Well, that's the ten and two.

1:07:06

Right? You're like, there are no sparks.

1:07:08

Yeah. Sparks don't fly. And

1:07:10

so that's the thing where I think you and

1:07:13

I grew up in this world where you go, oh, I know this. Oh

1:07:15

yeah, there's something about, but you don't know what it is. And the next thing you know,

1:07:17

you're in the cycle. And so I think

1:07:20

it's quite the opposite. I've committed

1:07:22

many times to those cycles. It's not that

1:07:25

I'm afraid of commitment. It's like, no, I'm quite the other

1:07:27

way around. Over time, what I've come to learn though,

1:07:29

is I have to practice grace. It's

1:07:32

interesting. This is a conversation I had with my mom

1:07:34

the other day. We love sharing learnings and new

1:07:36

things. And she's always evolving. And I really love that about

1:07:38

her as a person. She said, what have you learned recently?

1:07:40

And I said, I've learned the

1:07:43

thing my mom and I share. I said, we need to

1:07:45

stop falling in love with people's

1:07:47

potential and learn to fall in love

1:07:49

with who they are. It does not mean that

1:07:51

we won't encourage them to

1:07:54

be potentially as great as they could be, but

1:07:56

it does mean that we're willing to accept the possibility

1:07:59

that we will learn exist in this state with this

1:08:01

person for eternity

1:08:04

however long that may be. And I think that's

1:08:06

something that has really freed

1:08:08

me up in life is understanding and

1:08:10

I think we don't do this enough as people.

1:08:12

We see a glimpse of what we

1:08:15

like in another person. We see moments we

1:08:17

go, Dax is great. I just feel

1:08:19

like if he was a little shorter, he'd be a better

1:08:21

guy. And you know what? I think

1:08:23

if I spend enough time with him, I think I can get him to

1:08:25

be shorter. I think I can make him a little

1:08:27

bit shorter. And Dax every now and again will bend

1:08:30

down. That's right. He'll crouch and

1:08:32

you go like, oh, there he is. I did it. There

1:08:34

he is, my short king. And

1:08:38

every time you'll crouch, the person goes, I knew

1:08:40

it, there he is.

1:08:41

But the truth is, you're tall. At

1:08:43

some point you get tired of crouching. You stand.

1:08:46

And when you stand, the person goes, oh, and

1:08:48

then you go, look, I'm alone, I crouched. And

1:08:51

now that begins. Whereas it's a little

1:08:53

more boring, going back to where we started.

1:08:56

It's a little less 10. Yes.

1:08:57

It's not as fun as 10,

1:08:59

but it's much better than 2.

1:09:00

Exactly. And you go, I actually like

1:09:02

you exactly like this. And

1:09:04

the things that are terrible about you don't affect me. I've

1:09:07

tried to learn this as terrible. I like writing lists for

1:09:10

myself to know myself, like just to try and understand.

1:09:12

There's certain things that literally don't bother me at all.

1:09:15

Right. If you're late, you will never faze me. I

1:09:18

come from Africa. Time is a concept that was

1:09:20

invented by people from cold countries. We

1:09:22

don't care. It's funny you bring this up, because do you know what happened

1:09:24

yesterday? Yes. Was this brought to your

1:09:26

attention? No. I do a

1:09:29

Formula One podcast out of there. Oh, nice. And

1:09:31

there's a bunch of people there in the lobby, which is never

1:09:33

the case. That place is dead empty. What

1:09:36

the hell is going on here? Oh, Trevor's coming. He's

1:09:38

recording with The Rock. So everyone's

1:09:41

out. I was like, oh, this is fucking great.

1:09:43

I'm interviewing Trevor tomorrow. I finished

1:09:45

my show. And then someone goes, Trevor will be here

1:09:47

in 20 minutes. You want to hang and say hi to him? And

1:09:49

I go, yeah, yeah, I will actually. I'll hang. I'll

1:09:52

help him clean up. And then 20 minutes went by. And then

1:09:54

someone came and said, we just found out he hasn't left us out. And

1:09:57

I went, OK, I'm getting the fuck out of here. They

1:10:00

didn't tell me you were there. Yeah, exactly. No,

1:10:03

no, you don't know me. I apologize. Oh, I wasn't

1:10:05

apologizing. I just didn't know you were there. Yeah, no,

1:10:08

no, you weren't meeting me. But it's funny you would

1:10:10

say time is... Well, I want to add something.

1:10:12

Not about time. Hold on. Did

1:10:15

that defend you? That's the way I just told? No, it was interesting

1:10:17

though. Okay, tell me. Because I just saw the micro

1:10:20

adjustment to your face. It's

1:10:22

funny how hypervigilant you are. No. So,

1:10:24

I like driving myself in LA. I love driving myself

1:10:27

anyway. Same. And it's funny.

1:10:29

I was like, can we get a driver to bring

1:10:31

you to the podcast? You know, that building is really

1:10:34

weird. It is. It's nowhere.

1:10:36

Yes, that's right. The GPS doesn't take you to where it is. It's

1:10:38

weird. The address is in the street. You need to be on

1:10:41

the park. It's in the street where the construction is. So anyway, they go like, we'll

1:10:43

drive. I'm like, I don't want... They're like, driver, driver.

1:10:45

They send the driver. The driver doesn't find

1:10:48

me. Doesn't have the right address for some

1:10:50

reason. So, the whole morning is just like, you

1:10:52

know? Yeah. And you're like, I knew I should

1:10:54

have fucking driven. Why do you say yes or no? No, I wasn't even

1:10:57

angry. Hey man, your driver's lost. Finally

1:10:59

we're in the car. We're driving there.

1:11:01

The driver can't find Spotify. Sure. It's

1:11:04

a hard place to talk. So, when you said that, I remember

1:11:06

the moment where I jumped out of the car.

1:11:09

What area is that, by the way? It's downtown.

1:11:11

That's the LA and the arts district. Yeah. Okay.

1:11:15

Once you can get there, it's pretty radical. But I had to drive there seven times

1:11:17

before I could just drive there. Yeah. It's

1:11:20

very confusing. It's not intuitive. But then you hit that

1:11:22

one street that's not their address, but where the parking garage entrance

1:11:24

is and you go, boom, I'm here. Yeah. Yeah,

1:11:27

yeah, yeah. It's kind of old and bricky. Yeah, so that

1:11:29

was, you just reminded me. I was like, okay, good. Because

1:11:31

then I would have taken that person, like, oh God, I offended

1:11:33

him and he thinks I say I'm, now I'm applying. That's

1:11:35

a very hypervigilant. He's all laid and I

1:11:38

went through a whole cycle. So I'm glad we cleared that out.

1:11:40

He

1:11:40

needs people's approval. So if he feels like he's

1:11:42

losing at you,

1:11:43

right? No, that's probably part of it. I think

1:11:45

hypervigilance is insulin. You cannot separate it

1:11:47

from approval. It is not just the hypervigilance,

1:11:50

because approval is a form of safety

1:11:53

and hypervigilance is only looking for safety.

1:11:55

Yeah, that's really

1:11:56

true. You know, so Dax was now looking for me to

1:11:58

throw something at him. Yeah. I

1:12:01

would have hated to leave you feeling like

1:12:03

that. Yeah. Well, I've learned to ask by the way.

1:12:05

Oh Because it's

1:12:07

smart as I think I am I'm so fucking wrong

1:12:09

when I fill in the blanks when I create a

1:12:11

story to explain what weird thing happened

1:12:14

Yeah, 90% of the time I'm wrong and

1:12:16

so that right there How am I gonna guess that

1:12:18

you had a driver that you drove here? So I'm not

1:12:20

assuming you didn't drive there yesterday

1:12:23

I don't know any of this. So I'll tell you the narrative.

1:12:25

Yeah, I'm like, hmm Wasn't my

1:12:27

place to jump in on the Africa time thing? That

1:12:30

was me being entitled and then he

1:12:32

thinks I'm saying black people are late and

1:12:34

I really shit the bed on this and now He fucking hates me and

1:12:36

thinks I'm a racist. Well, you know what? I

1:12:38

would have bought into that narrative at least 50%

1:12:41

let me get rid of all your fears right now I

1:12:43

already thought you were racist. So Nothing

1:12:47

changed. We're good. We're good. Nothing changed that Wonderful.

1:12:51

It's interesting. Let me ask you this because I've had to work

1:12:53

on a lot of that for some of that work It's

1:12:56

interesting that you say you've learned to ask but

1:12:58

have you learned to tell yourself something

1:13:00

else? There's been some improvement, but

1:13:03

it's still a big liability. I know it's a big blind spot

1:13:05

of mine You know, I know that I'm very creative and imaginative

1:13:08

and I've been here Do so I will run all

1:13:10

the options through that broken

1:13:12

fucking circuitry and I'll likely

1:13:14

come out with a bad story Have you

1:13:16

struggled with boundaries? No

1:13:19

because back to the thing I asked you about the step dance

1:13:21

Yeah And I think a problem with me with

1:13:23

women in the past is I so disagreed

1:13:26

with it What was happening around me that when

1:13:28

I turned 18? I was like that is the

1:13:30

end of all that this is the Dak

1:13:33

Shepherd show for the rest of my life Whether

1:13:35

it's good or bad. I just will

1:13:38

never be the victim of someone else's plan

1:13:40

I will be making the choices whether I fail

1:13:42

or I get hurt from them. They'll be my

1:13:44

choices and so I

1:13:47

Think that's a dangerous

1:13:49

way to go through. That's how I explain

1:13:52

that I don't think I answered

1:13:54

your question, but that's what it may be From

1:13:56

what you're saying because that's something I had to work on anyone.

1:13:59

I know who's grown up in a violent home or

1:14:01

in a violent society, that

1:14:03

hyper vigilance. One of the things I've learned

1:14:05

is you can't always rely on asking

1:14:08

everyone, hey, did I or did I

1:14:10

not? Because there are many times when you won't be able to ask

1:14:12

the question and so you have to find

1:14:14

a way. And I was just wondering that on your side. I

1:14:16

still have moments where I'll have exactly what you had where I'll

1:14:18

go like, ah, damn, and

1:14:22

then like three days later I'm like, ah, and then it's

1:14:24

like, I'm almost like George Costanza where I'm like, I

1:14:26

should have said that to them.

1:14:28

So I'm wondering if you flagged by it as I've gotten

1:14:31

older and a little more confident and like myself

1:14:33

a little more. I don't assume the person is going to

1:14:35

assume the worst about me because I'm not assuming

1:14:37

the worst about me. So I think as that's

1:14:39

elevated, it's lessened. Some

1:14:42

of the stories I believed when I was younger,

1:14:44

just like their work related or anything I cared a lot about.

1:14:47

Trust me. And they were insane. Some of the

1:14:49

conspiracies I thought were afoot,

1:14:52

but some of them were right. One thing, you know, probably

1:14:54

10% were right. Okay. That low, my hit

1:14:56

rate was way higher. It was my hypervigilance

1:14:59

hit rate was way higher. Like for instance,

1:15:01

every time somebody cheated on me in a relationship,

1:15:04

I was right. My hypervigilance was

1:15:06

so high. Dangerous. No, I know.

1:15:08

So I would say my accuracy is quite

1:15:10

high in that situation or when shit's

1:15:13

about to happen. I'm almost clairvoyant.

1:15:15

Yeah. I had a moment. I was doing a movie 18

1:15:18

years ago in New Mexico. There is

1:15:20

nothing in Albuquerque that is open

1:15:23

past midnight other than strip clubs. And

1:15:25

we were shooting nights. I would tell you

1:15:27

if I love strip clubs, actually don't, but we

1:15:29

were shooting nights all week. And so on the weekends

1:15:31

we had to maintain that schedule. Well, there's nothing to

1:15:33

do. So I found some of the comedians by the way,

1:15:35

but carry on one of the only places that has food

1:15:37

that late. But yeah, yes.

1:15:40

So I'm in one and I'm with one

1:15:42

of my best friends who's producing the movie I'm

1:15:44

in. And then a third person, the publicist from the

1:15:46

movie and out of nowhere, I just

1:15:49

stand up. I stand up. And

1:15:52

they go, what's going on? And I go, I

1:15:55

thought there was a fight. I

1:15:57

sit back down 30 seconds later. Fuck

1:16:00

me, fuck you motherfucker! Two dudes

1:16:02

stand up and start swinging. Like,

1:16:05

I was somehow 30 seconds ahead of that. I

1:16:07

don't know what pheromone was happening. You

1:16:09

probably saw something. Something told

1:16:11

me there was a fight. I was 30 seconds ahead

1:16:14

of it. And they were like, what the fuck

1:16:16

just happened? Are you like living 30 seconds ahead?

1:16:18

So there are many times where it's like, it's spooky how good

1:16:20

they are. But if I'm filling in a story

1:16:23

about someone else, why they did something,

1:16:25

I'm generally not great at... Okay, I

1:16:27

knew they cheated, but why did they cheat?

1:16:29

And now I understand what you're saying. And non-liable to spin

1:16:31

a web that's based solely on my insecurities.

1:16:34

I

1:16:34

think it's good that you ask. I think it's

1:16:37

a really positive thing because I was just talking

1:16:39

about this, about you. I was

1:16:41

giving you a compliment behind your back. Oh

1:16:43

my god, please tell me.

1:16:44

That I think you're a person, because

1:16:46

of your tall stature, and

1:16:48

your white skin, and your alpha

1:16:50

energy. You could

1:16:53

go through life without giving a fuck about

1:16:56

what other people think and

1:16:59

not trying to get their approval and just being

1:17:01

loud and you. And I think it's a really

1:17:03

wonderful thing that you care.

1:17:05

Thank you. You're welcome. That was beautiful. Wonderful. I

1:17:07

really appreciate that. That was really

1:17:09

nice. Yeah. Wait, I

1:17:11

want to add one more thing. Sorry. I'm done with compliments

1:17:13

about you.

1:17:13

But back to you. Moving on. Tell them about some

1:17:16

of my character defects.

1:17:17

No, no, no. I just wanted to add something

1:17:19

that might be helpful when you were talking

1:17:22

about trying to pick

1:17:24

people not for their potential. Because

1:17:26

I think the short, tall analogy

1:17:28

you gave is so dead on. Because

1:17:31

I do this too all the time. And my therapist,

1:17:33

she's been hammering in the idea of limitations. She's

1:17:36

like, that isn't something

1:17:38

they're choosing. Whatever it is that's driving

1:17:41

me crazy, or they say they'll fix this. They say, they'll fix

1:17:43

this. It's not getting fixed. It's not getting fixed.

1:17:45

It's actually for me to then understand,

1:17:48

okay, they can't fix it. They

1:17:51

can't be shorter. That's asking

1:17:54

something that they just can't do. It's a

1:17:56

limitation that is not getting

1:17:58

fixed. So then it's a... to me,

1:18:01

is that person worth

1:18:04

the limitation? Right. And

1:18:06

it's not hoping that they'll do anything different.

1:18:08

They're who they are. And is it okay for me

1:18:10

to be with that version of them? Mm-hmm.

1:18:13

And they may become somebody else, but the

1:18:15

change may be so gradual that you might not be

1:18:17

able to stick around for that.

1:18:19

They may surprise you, but you can't hope

1:18:21

for

1:18:21

that. No, no, I agree with you. Everyone has the ability

1:18:23

to change. But change may not be... You

1:18:26

almost have to ask yourself, if this is as good as it ever

1:18:28

gets... That's what I mean. That's all I say every

1:18:30

time. That's a simple question. For instance, if I go on a date,

1:18:33

I tell people now from the beginning, hey,

1:18:35

here are some of my worst traits. Here

1:18:37

are some of the things that people have told me in relationships are

1:18:39

trash about me. Here are some of the things that you'll

1:18:41

think are terrible. Maybe they affect you. Maybe

1:18:44

they don't. People will giggle. And it's amazing

1:18:46

to me how much people don't listen to people. I remember

1:18:48

someone said this to me a long time ago in life. They said,

1:18:51

when someone tells you who they are, believe them. Yeah,

1:18:53

this is a powerful... You know? And it's

1:18:55

so amazing to me how many times I'll tell people. I'll go like,

1:18:57

hey, here are the things about me

1:18:59

that may piss you off at some

1:19:01

point. I juggle knives every night. This is

1:19:03

how I roll. This is how I roll. And

1:19:06

these are things, some of them I'm trying to change, by

1:19:08

the way, because I don't think that they are benefiting

1:19:11

the life that I wish to live. However, there

1:19:13

are some things where I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't like

1:19:15

getting angry to show that I care

1:19:17

about something. You may think I'm being apathetic.

1:19:20

I'm not. Right. But

1:19:22

I don't like being the person who's like, god damn it. No. I

1:19:24

don't need to get angry, but it doesn't mean that I don't care.

1:19:27

Some people may perceive it as me not caring. Well, because

1:19:29

in their household, that's how you care. Exactly. So

1:19:32

all these things, I genuinely try

1:19:34

and do it. And I think it was one of my favorite philosophers,

1:19:36

Elain de Butten, who talked about that. And

1:19:39

he said, when we date, we present the best image

1:19:41

of ourselves when we meet people. It's like a job interview.

1:19:44

And then it just becomes a discovery of all the worst.

1:19:47

And so what I've tried to do now in life is I go start

1:19:50

with the worst, start with the most honest. And

1:19:52

then overachieve. Or even just be. I used

1:19:54

to dress up to go on a date. And

1:19:56

now I go the way I was dressed that day. Yeah,

1:19:59

good. A, man, this

1:20:01

is because some days I'm going to look like this. Yeah, for

1:20:03

sure. So sometimes I don't even know if I put my

1:20:05

colors together right. I'm experimenting with this jacket.

1:20:09

And yeah, sometimes my hair is looking shabby

1:20:11

and sometimes it's not. And you're going to find

1:20:13

me on the day the way you find me because

1:20:16

I wish to be accepted for the days

1:20:18

that I am like that. And I wish to learn to accept

1:20:20

you that way as well. Yeah, you're

1:20:23

right. It's an urge for both

1:20:25

participants to change. So one

1:20:27

is like how you're accepting and what you're expecting.

1:20:30

And then on your side of the street, it's like, tell people who you

1:20:32

are. Just start with who you are. Then

1:20:34

you're not hiding from anything. You don't have to cover anything. Yeah, we're constantly

1:20:36

discovering that we're not for each other because

1:20:38

we all tricked each other. Yeah, we got the commercial

1:20:41

version. We all tricked each other. Then we got the toy home from a

1:20:43

fucking storm. Oh my goodness. You need batteries.

1:20:45

I need them in the commercial. They didn't move batteries. You

1:20:47

didn't tell me you might need a stem. Might require

1:20:49

a stem. Oh man, I'm choking. The small

1:20:52

part. You didn't tell me about your

1:20:54

small part when I'm choking on them. Well

1:20:57

Trevor, we could have spent this last hour and a

1:20:59

half talking about your new show,

1:21:01

What Now? But my hunch is this is your

1:21:04

new show. Yeah, it's a version of

1:21:06

it. I don't mean that your show is our terrible.

1:21:08

No, no, no, no. I really take that as a compliment and I thank

1:21:10

you because I understood what you were saying.

1:21:12

My intention? Yeah, I did. I did. And

1:21:15

I think what you were saying was my podcast is going

1:21:18

to be me applying my mind to the world

1:21:20

and to the situations that we're in. Everyone,

1:21:22

as you said, because you majored in anthropology,

1:21:25

your lens is filtered in a certain way and you have fascinations.

1:21:28

I've always been somebody who likes connecting dots. I've

1:21:30

always been somebody who likes explaining and understanding

1:21:33

the world around me. And so I think

1:21:35

my show is going to exist more in

1:21:37

a space of looking at

1:21:40

either what has happened or what is happening and

1:21:42

how to think about it as if

1:21:44

it were in hindsight, even though we're currently experiencing

1:21:47

it. Some of it may be political. Some

1:21:50

of it may be news related. Some of it

1:21:52

might not be, but I enjoy existing in

1:21:54

that space where we oftentimes

1:21:56

don't take a moment to process because

1:21:59

it is happening. And so we react yeah,

1:22:01

and when we react we regret I just want to

1:22:04

make a show where you can sit and go like alright. What do

1:22:06

we actually think about this? What are we trying to do

1:22:08

about this? How do we feel about

1:22:10

this? I'm gonna give myself a fifth pitch Go

1:22:13

even though they don't exist in baseball. I'm over

1:22:15

for but one was a ball. Let's go the ball.

1:22:17

Yeah I

1:22:20

wonder if like me Reactions

1:22:22

were the enemy that's what caused violence

1:22:24

right reactions hotheadedness

1:22:27

emotional. Yes responses

1:22:31

I have the same predilection. I'm constantly

1:22:33

like guys. Yes 9-11 was horrific

1:22:36

This was the worst day of my life in

1:22:38

this country We're hurt. We're

1:22:41

scared, but can we take five before

1:22:44

we enact a bunch of responses just

1:22:46

for me? Reactions are

1:22:48

implicitly dangerous. Yeah,

1:22:51

there we go. Okay one out of there we are We

1:22:55

can just edit the show and make it one for one I

1:22:57

look at us. I actually what

1:23:00

you we both have that and we're both racist

1:23:02

look at that

1:23:02

And we

1:23:04

both say homeless We're

1:23:07

on a roll

1:23:09

God everyone gets cancelled

1:23:11

But yes, I agree

1:23:13

with you there, and I think beyond that for me, and

1:23:16

maybe this tied to it. I am deeply

1:23:18

attracted To the

1:23:20

idea of understanding. I think we can

1:23:22

just spend a little more time trying to understand You

1:23:25

don't have to agree with people man. You don't have

1:23:27

to like them. You don't have to know them in that

1:23:29

way, but just Understand

1:23:31

your doctor doesn't have to like your

1:23:33

cancer. They don't have to go out for drinks

1:23:36

with your cancer, but they need to understand

1:23:39

Cancer right in order for them to

1:23:41

move forward in some way shape or form and

1:23:43

I think in society We need to do the same. I think

1:23:46

we have to find a way to just understand

1:23:49

Where the other person is coming from how they see

1:23:52

the world or how they're approaching a situation

1:23:54

and sometimes even understand how we've gotten To

1:23:56

the point that we've gotten to and in that

1:23:59

I think we have a chance of making a clearer decision

1:24:02

and having a clearer understanding of who we

1:24:04

are in those situations. And so that's my goal

1:24:06

is to just find that space, take the

1:24:08

time as we've done here. Yeah. Not

1:24:11

a seven minute, you know what it's like, TV. Well, that

1:24:13

was gonna be one of my questions. Dex, welcome to the show.

1:24:15

So your stepdads, violence, crazy

1:24:17

men, great movie by the way. Great

1:24:20

movie. Let's talk about the movie. But before we do Doritos,

1:24:22

thank you so much, Dex. Thank you so much. Well,

1:24:24

I was curious, what appealed to me about doing a podcast

1:24:27

was simply that I had been on a hundred late

1:24:29

night talk shows and I had seven minutes to be

1:24:31

brilliant. And then I could be as a guest on some of these

1:24:34

podcasts. I was like, well, this is lovely.

1:24:36

I can breathe. Yeah. I can

1:24:38

take a minute. I can formulate my thoughts.

1:24:40

I also might be appealing

1:24:42

in other ways than just being funny. That's

1:24:45

refreshing. Is the time for you

1:24:47

just like after seven years

1:24:49

of boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Definitely.

1:24:52

We've compressed so many things in our lives. We've

1:24:54

turned everything into a snippet. You know, we

1:24:56

consume news in the Middle East in snippets.

1:24:59

We consume news in America in

1:25:01

snippets. We consume news from our friends

1:25:03

and people in snippets. Life

1:25:05

doesn't happen in snippets.

1:25:08

It is long. It is complicated.

1:25:10

It is dynamic. And I think when you

1:25:12

take a breath and you appreciate that you

1:25:15

find yourself moving less between

1:25:17

the tens and the twos and existing a

1:25:19

little more realistically in a comfortable

1:25:21

six. Yeah. We

1:25:23

could even go seven. I like that. I allow

1:25:25

myself to hit seven. I like seven. Okay.

1:25:28

Yeah. You will have a list movie stars.

1:25:31

Yeah. The rock first guests. I mean,

1:25:33

are you bros with the rock? We've been

1:25:35

trying to get in for five and a half years. I'm a little curious

1:25:37

how you just first step back. I actually don't

1:25:39

know. And I'm eternally grateful. You just

1:25:41

must admire you or something. I know.

1:25:44

Maybe I was lucky. But yeah. So

1:25:46

the rock first guest. That's pretty amazing. And then it's tons of,

1:25:49

as you said, a list, Kerry, Washington, you

1:25:51

name them. And it's people who just do things

1:25:53

in the world, the likes of Bill Gates, et cetera.

1:25:56

But then I also want to speak to people who you

1:25:58

may not know, but I think. can have

1:26:00

or do have an effect on your life. That's where

1:26:02

I think the conversation sometimes become more interesting.

1:26:05

Someone asked me this the other day, they said, are you only gonna

1:26:07

have A-list celebrities on your show?

1:26:09

And I said, no, I'm only having A-list

1:26:11

conversations. Boom. Well

1:26:14

good, that means I just opened the door to you and I. Yeah,

1:26:16

I like that. Yeah, as long as, if you can go down to B-list

1:26:18

or something, we

1:26:20

feel invited now. Yeah, we're coming on. This also, I imagine,

1:26:23

works with your life. I think what people wouldn't

1:26:25

know is like, you were probably

1:26:27

losing a tremendous amount of money to host that

1:26:29

show. No, no, no, I don't ever think of it like

1:26:31

that. I think in life. I only say,

1:26:34

you have an incredible career as a

1:26:36

standup. Yes, The Daily Show is without

1:26:38

a doubt one

1:26:41

of the greatest blessings that ever helped

1:26:43

my standup. There are people who learn me because

1:26:45

of, so I think it actually becomes a wash. Okay.

1:26:48

I think everything I lost because of The Daily Show, The

1:26:50

Daily Show gave me, so I never think of it like that, honestly.

1:26:53

But I guess if I were you, what I would be thinking

1:26:55

is, I love The Daily Show. Yes. I

1:26:58

miss many parts of it. Yes. Probably working

1:27:00

with that team. I'm sure you probably miss quite often.

1:27:03

But,

1:27:04

oh good, I get to return to this first love of

1:27:06

mine, which is standup, and I get to have a lot

1:27:08

more availability to do that

1:27:10

thing. And that for me, a podcast works seamlessly

1:27:13

into that, into returning into that.

1:27:16

It's funny, I thought that towards

1:27:18

the end of the run, but then the pandemic

1:27:21

changed something in me, and I realized my

1:27:24

first love is not standup. My first

1:27:26

love is community. My first love

1:27:28

is building connections with human

1:27:30

beings who mean something to me. And that's

1:27:33

actually what I wanna do. The biggest thing that I

1:27:35

didn't like about doing The Daily Show was, I don't

1:27:38

get to see the sun most days. You

1:27:40

come in in the morning, you work all the way until

1:27:42

night, and then when you leave, it's dark. You

1:27:44

came in, it was dark. You leave, it was dark. And I

1:27:46

was like, huh. I actually like walking around

1:27:48

during the day, having the sun hit my face.

1:27:51

I liked living life. And

1:27:54

after the pandemic, I realized I

1:27:56

became someone who was unashamedly wishing

1:27:59

to be a life liver. And I think we've

1:28:01

been shamed about this. We see

1:28:03

people online, they're like, oh, nobody wants to work

1:28:05

these days. Yo,

1:28:06

nobody wants to work. Am

1:28:08

I close enough to the mic? Can you hear me? Listen here,

1:28:11

all you haters out there, all these people are like, nobody

1:28:13

wants to, nobody wants to work.

1:28:15

You know how you know nobody wants to work? Is because everyone's

1:28:17

trying to not work. The

1:28:20

reason people save money is because they don't

1:28:22

wanna work at some point. The reason people have a retirement

1:28:24

is because they don't wanna work. If working

1:28:27

was the best thing ever, you would aim to

1:28:29

get there at the end of your life. You'd be like, I can't wait to be 90 and

1:28:31

working. Why aren't you doing that? Because nobody

1:28:34

likes working.

1:28:36

Now, I do

1:28:37

think everybody likes having purpose. Everybody

1:28:40

likes doing something. I think many of the

1:28:42

jobs that people have to do to make

1:28:44

a living are the jobs that they do because they

1:28:46

sustain them. And unfortunately, there are many jobs that people

1:28:48

could be doing that would be great for them and

1:28:50

society, but they aren't supported in any way. You

1:28:53

look at how France at some point paid people

1:28:55

to be artists, and you look at how that benefited

1:28:57

France and the world and artists. Now,

1:28:59

today, you go like, pay people to be honest. Be like, I'm not gonna pay

1:29:02

some idiot just to paint. All right, fine, but

1:29:04

you look at the painting too. So I'm a

1:29:06

proud liver of life. I really am, Dax.

1:29:08

And I go, what am I trying to do? We

1:29:10

have, what is it, 4,000 weeks in our lives. Is

1:29:13

that what it is? 4,000 weeks if you're lucky.

1:29:15

I don't want that. 4,000 weeks. How

1:29:17

are you spending them? What are you doing with them? People

1:29:20

will be like, oh, it's a work-life balance. No, it's just a life

1:29:22

balance. It's just life.

1:29:23

Work doesn't pause. It's not severance. You

1:29:26

don't pause your life to go to work. You

1:29:28

are living at work. The people you're talking

1:29:30

to, things you're doing every day, that is

1:29:33

your life. And so if you are

1:29:35

blessed enough to have the opportunity

1:29:38

to choose how you live that life, then

1:29:40

I think you also have a responsibility to live

1:29:42

it accordingly. And so that's genuinely what I'm

1:29:44

trying to do now. So funny enough, this

1:29:46

year I did way too much stand-up. More

1:29:49

than 230, 240 days. Oh my god,

1:29:51

you did? Yeah, everywhere from India to

1:29:53

Dubai to South Africa.

1:29:55

I love the look of your Minneapolis and London

1:29:58

and all of this. Do you need an account? I don't

1:30:00

want to get in there and sniff around a little bit. Are

1:30:02

you well managed financially? I'm a

1:30:04

little bit of volunteer. Wow,

1:30:06

that's a lot of fucking ways. I've never

1:30:08

been to a wedding. In your life? In my

1:30:11

life. I've never been to a wedding. You're not

1:30:13

missing much. Yes, you are. They're very lovely. I've

1:30:15

never been to a wedding. They're lovely. Working, working,

1:30:17

working, working, working. I know my calendar. You're

1:30:19

in advance. Well, your buddies from South Africa

1:30:22

who came to work at the Daily Show who are

1:30:24

part of the 60 Minutes segment. Of

1:30:26

course, Leslie's still hitting the relationship thing. Tell

1:30:28

us about him as a boyfriend. He's like, everyone just shut

1:30:30

up. Can I tell you why? I'll tell you why. By

1:30:32

the way, it was hysterical. No, but let me tell you why. First of all, I'm

1:30:34

private. If you are going to live your relationship

1:30:36

in public, then you must live your relationship

1:30:38

in public. I'm not trying to foist my

1:30:40

relationship on anybody because I do not wish you to

1:30:43

foist your opinions about my relationship on me. I

1:30:45

will have my relationship in private because that's where

1:30:47

I believe it should be. Everyone can do what they want to do. But

1:30:49

secondly, I find it strange that

1:30:51

the entertainment industry is the one industry where

1:30:54

your relationship is somehow considered part of

1:30:56

your job. I'm sorry, what? Well, yeah, your

1:30:58

example. You get through an interview and

1:31:00

then anyone can just be like, so Dex,

1:31:02

who's the person you have sex with? Huh? Welcome.

1:31:06

You literally could not do that with anyone else.

1:31:08

You could not have the Dalai Lama on your show and be

1:31:10

like, so who you banging, Dalai? Huh? What's

1:31:13

happening in your life? I mean, Zach might ask that. I

1:31:15

mean, maybe, but you get what I'm saying. I just

1:31:18

think it's a weird, and I don't accept it. Your example

1:31:20

was Mitch McConnell. His example was like,

1:31:22

is anyone asking who Mitch McConnell's talking? Yeah.

1:31:25

But that wasn't the point. His buddies, so they're great. They're

1:31:27

good buddies. And his one

1:31:30

friend just goes, yes, I'll tell you about his relationship. I

1:31:32

mean, look, he's a good boyfriend. And

1:31:34

then he just, and then he laughs. But

1:31:37

what they do hang you out to dry on is

1:31:40

she goes, is he a workaholic? And they both

1:31:42

go, yeah. They're like, no, no, we care about you, so

1:31:45

we're gonna give you the tough love right now, which is, yes,

1:31:47

this motherfucker is definitely a workaholic.

1:31:49

They didn't pull any punches. So what I've done is

1:31:51

this. I spent a long time trying to not be

1:31:53

a workaholic, and I've realized

1:31:56

to what you were saying, limitations,

1:31:59

and I go, actually. I can't stop myself

1:32:01

from being a workaholic. So what I now do

1:32:03

is I'm going to work

1:32:05

at resting. And

1:32:08

so I'm applying the same

1:32:10

tool to another side of my life. I

1:32:12

like that, we're praying. So I go instead of going,

1:32:14

I'm just gonna do nothing

1:32:16

and try and figure, and I was like, no, no, no, no, no.

1:32:18

Use the same tool that was creating

1:32:20

a very successful but unhealthy environment

1:32:23

for you. Use that same tool to

1:32:25

work at being a fully human being. Yeah,

1:32:27

schedule it, think about what you're gonna do. I

1:32:30

have a goal of relaxation. I even apologize

1:32:32

to my assistant because I was like, my calendar

1:32:34

looks like chaos now because I literally

1:32:37

have everything. Phone call

1:32:39

with friend. Yeah, you have to. Walk

1:32:41

with friend. Literally walk with friend. 15 minutes

1:32:44

of this, 20 minutes of that. Watch TV

1:32:46

show. I put things in my calendar. Who watched

1:32:48

TV show? And you know why? Because if I

1:32:51

didn't put that space aside, work

1:32:53

would take it. You know what that is. Yeah, of course.

1:32:55

It cannibalizes it. Yes. And so now I put

1:32:57

it aside. And then when I get there, if I don't wanna watch a TV show,

1:33:00

I don't. But now I go, this is my

1:33:02

time. No, I like it. I have to do the same thing.

1:33:04

I've got like standing dinners with a friend I

1:33:06

can never see. Every first Wednesday of every

1:33:09

month, we go to dinner. If we don't declare that,

1:33:11

it'll never fucking happen. That's beautiful. Trevor, you're radical.

1:33:13

I really, really like you. You're not just cute. I

1:33:16

mean, you're also a hell of a thinker. You

1:33:18

can't see, but I'm smiling right now. It makes me smile

1:33:20

in a very particular way every time I'm said that. I

1:33:23

can only imagine what Monika's doing. He knows how to make

1:33:25

people smile. I'm like three and I'm all fucked up over it. So

1:33:28

great to have you on. I hope everyone checks out what

1:33:30

now. You're so skilled at this and I'll be very

1:33:32

excited to listen. Thank you, man. Thank you

1:33:34

for having me. I've listened to the podcast many times. I appreciate

1:33:36

what you've both done. I think it's a cool space

1:33:38

that you've created that has definitely

1:33:40

in some way inspired me to be in the podcast

1:33:43

world. Oh, good. That's flattering.

1:33:45

Yeah, because I just think we can all take a little more time

1:33:48

to have a little more full conversations, to

1:33:50

get to know each other a little more. I've really

1:33:52

loved what you've done. The fun, the humor, the ups,

1:33:54

the downs, the brain, the jokes, the drugs,

1:33:57

the life. It's all been good. for

1:34:00

having me and thank you to anyone who is listening. Thank

1:34:02

you, Trevor. And yes, we'll be on yours. We'll

1:34:04

see you, I guess we'll see you next there.

1:34:06

Can I tell you something? You say that? Yeah. Mark

1:34:09

my words. Something is going to happen in your life. I

1:34:11

don't wish this upon you, but it'll happen. I

1:34:14

will invite you at that time. Do

1:34:16

not turn me down. Oh, I will never.

1:34:18

For instance, like the rock, he had the thing

1:34:21

with the Maui fires. You familiar with that? Yes.

1:34:23

Well, I know he's Hawaiian

1:34:25

and there are Maui fires. So Samoan

1:34:28

and family from Hawaii, the islands are him.

1:34:30

Yeah. The fires happened one of the most

1:34:32

devastating fires in American history. The

1:34:34

rock and Oprah were like, Hey, we're going to stop this fund. We're going

1:34:36

to put money in. I think they put 10 million of their own money

1:34:39

each or whatever it was. And they're like, let's get this thing going. And

1:34:41

they said, Hey, anyone wants to donate? You donate. Let's

1:34:43

get this thing going. And they got backlash.

1:34:46

You didn't see this? No, it was

1:34:48

huge. It was huge. That's your apologize. There's

1:34:50

a trash from the high heavens from the

1:34:52

high heavens. People are like, you entitled

1:34:55

pieces of trash. They were like, why don't you give

1:34:57

all your money? Why are you asking us for money? You,

1:35:00

you assholes, Oprah and the rock

1:35:03

bunch of dicks. Like Oprah

1:35:05

went on TV. She went on CBS and apologized.

1:35:07

And so I was like, Hey, can we

1:35:09

talk about this? And we did. Oh, wonderful.

1:35:12

And so I think what I like about

1:35:14

it is he wasn't like no comment. Yeah.

1:35:17

We spoke about it. Yeah. Wonderful. I can't

1:35:19

wait to hear that. I had no fucking

1:35:21

idea there. But it's also telling

1:35:23

that when you're in these things, you think everyone knows and

1:35:26

also no one knows like the shit I've been in.

1:35:28

I've assumed everyone I see on the sidewalk knows,

1:35:30

but no, they don't. And

1:35:32

that's over in the wrong. Yeah.

1:35:34

All right. Well, this has been wonderful. It's been amazing.

1:35:37

Everyone listened to what now a Spotify

1:35:40

brother in arms. Oh, yeah, we're both

1:35:42

spot. Look at that cash in those Spotify

1:35:45

checks. Well, listen, anyway, you get even

1:35:47

if you aren't listening on Spotify, you can listen. So

1:35:50

we're not walled off in any way, shape or form. It

1:35:52

is free to the people. That's also something I like, by

1:35:54

the way, that it's free. Oh, yeah. It's

1:35:56

great. I think it's interesting that we live in a world where

1:35:59

more and more of the good things

1:36:01

are walled off from people and all the bad

1:36:03

things are free. You can watch trash

1:36:06

anything for free and you can read

1:36:08

all these websites that aren't even real, writing fake

1:36:11

stories about the news. It's all free. And

1:36:13

then you want to read an interesting article that informs

1:36:15

you. On the LA Times, New York Times, and it's

1:36:17

like, you got to pay. So it's like, so wait, you got

1:36:19

to pay to be informed, but

1:36:21

then

1:36:22

being uninformed is free? That's

1:36:25

a scary world to live in. It is also free,

1:36:27

which I think is wonderful. Check it out. What

1:36:30

now? Good luck. Stay

1:36:33

tuned for the facts, Jack, so you can hear

1:36:35

all the facts that were wrong.

1:36:40

We have so much to

1:36:41

talk about. We have so much. So many loose ends,

1:36:43

so much housekeeping. But

1:36:45

let's start with your Coca-Cola sweatshirt. Yeah.

1:36:48

I am proud of myself for bringing this to your

1:36:50

attention because that's a 10 out of 10 sweatshirt.

1:36:53

You love it? I love it. Good.

1:36:56

Do you like it, Wob? I didn't notice it. When

1:36:59

you said it inside. When

1:37:01

you were talking about it for a while, I

1:37:03

paid attention for some of it. I didn't

1:37:05

bring it up. You added it. I

1:37:08

would never brag. Was that your first time in it?

1:37:10

No,

1:37:11

no. Heavens no. Have you gotten

1:37:13

it tailored in any way? No. You

1:37:16

haven't? Well, you got lucky. Would you?

1:37:19

If you got a great retro item,

1:37:21

you should, right? What's

1:37:25

weird about fads is, cuts

1:37:28

are fads. For sure. If I put on

1:37:30

a shirt from the 80s or 90s, it's a box.

1:37:33

Yeah. It's so square. That's true. And

1:37:36

I'm a pencil.

1:37:37

Yeah, you don't like boxes.

1:37:38

I need a thin rectangle.

1:37:40

It depends on what it is.

1:37:42

If it's like a dress or something. Well,

1:37:44

then we got it. We got

1:37:45

it. But a sweatshirt,

1:37:48

I'm not ruling it out. Okay. Think

1:37:50

about it. I'll think about it. What's

1:37:52

it going to

1:37:53

do to this one? Go half shirt for sure. Oh,

1:37:55

you want me to prop it up? Mid-drift. I'm

1:37:58

going to get a mid-drift. And then probably cut the sleeve. off.

1:38:00

Oh, okay. Yeah, and go kind of gym style. I

1:38:02

love a gray vintage sweater.

1:38:07

Gray hits a darkness

1:38:10

over time that it just can't really have.

1:38:12

Exactly. Upon new threads.

1:38:15

It's a patina. It's a patina. That's

1:38:17

right.

1:38:17

And often the vintage ones have this

1:38:20

very specific arm collar.

1:38:22

What's

1:38:23

that called? What's this part

1:38:25

called? The cuff. Cuff.

1:38:28

Cuff. You weren't sure I was right. You thought

1:38:30

about that for a second. Yeah, because I think

1:38:31

I wanted to say cuff and it didn't sound

1:38:33

right.