0:00

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Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless

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companies are allowed to raise prices due

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to inflation. They said yes. And then

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when I asked if raising prices technically

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to recap, we're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30

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a month to just $15 a month. Give

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it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. Hey,

0:33

everyone. You know the guest of today's

0:35

flashback episode as the third runner-up in

0:38

season 19 of The Bachelor, The Bachelorette

0:40

in season 11, the

0:42

winner of Dancing with the Stars season 29, and

0:45

coming full circle as the co-host of The

0:48

Bachelorette seasons 17 and 18. Here's

0:51

Caitlin Vristo. Ladies

0:55

and gentlemen, you are listening to

0:57

Unqualified with your host, Anna Faris.

1:09

Caitlin, thank you so much for doing this.

1:12

Thank you for having me, truly. I feel completely honored.

1:14

Big fan. Love your podcast.

1:16

Thank you. And I love yours. And

1:19

I want to talk about that. First, Caitlin,

1:21

if I had grown up

1:23

in a hut in none

1:25

of it territory, which am I saying

1:27

that correctly? You are. As a Canadian,

1:29

all right. Without any

1:32

exposure to the outside world,

1:34

how would you describe the

1:37

hugely successful franchise that you

1:39

have been a part of? Like

1:41

The Bachelor franchise? Uh-huh. Okay.

1:45

Oh, my gosh. That is a hard question. date

2:00

the same guy and see

2:02

who has the best connection. And

2:05

basically in the outside world, if you were

2:07

to take a bunch of couples from the

2:09

street, the ratio would probably be similar to

2:12

the success rate of the show, The Bachelor.

2:14

So you do all the steps of dating,

2:16

it's just on steroids. So you have the

2:18

first like flirting moments, getting to know each

2:21

other, having the deep conversations, meeting each other's

2:23

family, sleeping in the same bed overnight, then

2:25

meeting your family and then getting down on

2:28

one knee and doing all of that. So

2:30

it's basically how to find a husband. It

2:32

just took place like 300 years ago. This

2:37

is really a wild world. I am

2:39

a huge fan of both franchises. But

2:42

what is also so interesting to me

2:44

is like the environment that's created the

2:46

stuff that we don't see, of course.

2:49

But I imagine not having your phone,

2:51

not having access to the outside world

2:53

for like the first time in your

2:55

life and having

2:58

like the trophy be

3:00

a person and

3:03

like the insecurities. I imagine

3:05

that you have to have

3:07

some kind of fucking mental

3:10

survival skills. Honestly, I

3:12

think I went in at the perfect time because

3:14

I went through like the most rock bottom breakup

3:17

of my life when I was like, I don't

3:19

know, 26, 27. That

3:21

was when I started my therapy journey. And

3:23

I swear doing like so much therapy

3:25

every week for two years set me

3:28

up to go on the show where

3:30

I walked into that mansion full of

3:32

beautiful women. And I was truly the

3:34

most confident I had ever been in

3:36

my life. And that was rich from

3:38

me in like seconds because I was

3:40

like, because what

3:42

fun is that to watch a confident

3:45

woman in a dating scene? Of course,

3:47

that's not good TV. So yeah, it

3:49

ended up just being really hard. It's

3:51

really hard. It's definitely edited for like

3:53

the dramatic effect, but you're still competing.

3:55

And I had to really like take

3:58

a step back at one point. in

4:00

my life and go, wait, am I

4:02

wanting this guy because he is the

4:04

prize and I'm super competitive or do

4:06

I actually like feel love for this

4:08

man and can see myself with him?

4:10

And the answer was I was being

4:12

super competitive. I totally get that because

4:14

it's also like I was telling my

4:16

husband the other day, like if you

4:19

transcribed the bachelor, it's

4:21

a little different with a bachelorette, I think,

4:23

but if you transcribe the bachelor, it feels

4:25

like the total vocabulary is like 250 words.

4:28

Yes, amazing, journey, right

4:30

reasons, all the things. Yes, and the

4:32

vagary of like, I could really see

4:35

myself starting to have feelings for this

4:37

person. I know, it's like we're reading

4:39

this script almost, like it doesn't matter

4:41

where you are, you can be in

4:43

Iowa and Iowa is the perfect place

4:45

to fall in love. Right, right, right.

4:48

So, well, first of all, do you still watch

4:50

everything? I mean, I think you do because you're

4:53

like embedded, you're like our queen. Thank

4:56

you. Do you think that you're

4:58

a more skillful viewer than like the

5:00

average person? Yes, because not only did

5:03

I get to go as a contestant

5:05

on The Bachelor and then be the

5:07

bachelorette, but I peeked a little more

5:09

behind the curtain as the host for

5:11

two seasons. So I feel like I

5:13

really watch from a different lens and

5:15

it makes it incredibly difficult because in

5:18

that host role, I was like, I can't do

5:20

this because I know too much and I wanna

5:22

save them and I wanna like step in and

5:24

say like, don't keep that guy. Like I

5:26

actually find myself as a fan and

5:29

as someone that like knows the ins and outs

5:31

of it. So it's really hard. But

5:34

wait, so with your experience as

5:36

the bachelorette, having kind of like

5:38

been torn, I mean, not to

5:40

put it like crudely, first

5:43

runner up on your season

5:45

of The Bachelor. Third. Third.

5:48

Yeah, so there was three girls left and I

5:50

actually at that point thought, I was like, oh my

5:52

gosh, this guy's so in love with me. Like he's

5:54

obviously gonna pick me. And then he sent me home

5:56

and I was like, what? And that's

5:59

when they made me. the bachelorette. Did it feel

6:01

like the blow that we see? Yes. It

6:04

does feel like that. It's more of like

6:06

humiliating because you also are having an out

6:08

of body experience. Like I've been a fan

6:10

of the show for so long. So to

6:13

see Chris Harrison walk up and

6:15

be like, Caitlin, I'm so sorry. You

6:17

did not get, I was like, wait, I'm

6:19

in that moment right now. I'm that girl.

6:22

Oh no. And I imagine it's

6:24

truly like four in the morning and

6:27

your feet are like dying. This one, we

6:29

were in Bali and we weren't allowed to

6:31

wear certain things because of the temple. So

6:33

your hair had to be in a bun

6:35

and you had to wear a sarong and

6:37

like a blouse. And it was like two

6:39

in the afternoon. And I had accidentally just

6:41

peed on my leg because there was no

6:43

toilets and I had to like straddle over

6:45

a hole in the ground. And I was

6:47

like finding humor in everything. And then it

6:49

was like, Caitlin, I'm so sorry. You did

6:51

not receive the final rose. Please say your

6:53

goodbyes. And I'm like, what? So

6:58

was like becoming the bachelorette. I

7:00

mean, I imagine that that is

7:03

essentially like a coronation. And

7:06

I imagine that you're treated with

7:08

a whole different kind of protection

7:10

essentially, right? Yeah. Okay. Wait, I

7:12

love it that you're like, no,

7:14

no, no, maybe this reception is

7:16

incorrect. Well, only the fact that

7:18

like protected, I always go back

7:20

and forth with that because I'll

7:22

never forget one of the producers

7:24

sat me down one time and

7:26

he goes, Caitlin, our one job

7:28

is to make you look good. And you're

7:30

making our job really hard because I kept

7:33

like breaking the rules and trying to break

7:35

out and trying to see the guys off

7:37

camera and do all this stuff. So in

7:39

a sense, they had to protect me as

7:41

their lead. But my heart and my brain

7:43

did not feel protected at all. It felt

7:45

quite manipulated. So it's like this weird balance

7:48

of yes, protected in one way. But I

7:50

can totally relate to that as an actor.

7:52

Yeah, that feeling where it's like, you're

7:54

treated with a lot of fragility, because

7:57

they can't like rock the lead.

7:59

So you'll get lose money in production

8:01

days or whatever, and you want to

8:03

make sure that they feel good, but

8:05

at the same time, you

8:07

feel raw and exposed.

8:10

And if there is something like that, like, okay,

8:12

we need you to go to the gym. Yeah.

8:15

Like, we got you a gym membership. Yeah. You

8:18

know what it is? Right. You

8:20

almost want, at least at my age, I

8:22

want more, and I'm able to ask for

8:24

it now, and I seek it out, like,

8:27

just more direct communication. Otherwise,

8:29

it feels, like, kind of patronizing. It was

8:31

such a learning lesson for me, because,

8:33

like, for you, I'm sure you've gone

8:35

through so many different phases and, like,

8:37

seasons of your acting career, and learning

8:39

as you go, and growing and evolving

8:41

as an actress, and then, for

8:43

myself, I felt like I was, like, thrown in,

8:45

chewed up, spat out, and I was like, wait,

8:47

what? But I've learned so much, so if I

8:49

do TV again, I'm like, okay, I would ask

8:51

for this, and I would be, like, cautious of

8:53

this, and it was so eye-opening, and I'm assuming,

8:56

you might have felt like that at the beginning,

8:58

but you learned so much as you go that

9:00

you're at a place in your life where

9:02

you're like, I know what to ask for

9:04

now, and how to protect myself. Yeah, like,

9:06

I can now go up to a director

9:08

and say, like, was I too heavy-handed? Is

9:10

this moment not mine? Or,

9:12

like, do you want me to do my nails? Yeah.

9:16

You're like, help me, help you, I got it. Yeah. So,

9:20

okay, will you tell us about your

9:23

engagement? Yes, being engaged for the second

9:25

time is interesting, because the first time

9:27

was obviously from the show, and it

9:29

was like a whirlwind, and I

9:32

really thought it was gonna work, and then

9:34

it didn't. Did you really? Like, I love

9:36

that. Oh, I really thought it was gonna

9:38

work. That is a heartbreak, though. It was,

9:40

it really was, because that show's success rate

9:43

is obviously not great, and I was like,

9:45

oh my gosh, we're gonna be like a

9:47

successful story, and how crazy that I went

9:49

through all of this to find the person

9:51

that I was gonna marry, and

9:54

yeah, it just never got up. We were

9:56

together for three and a half years. Well,

9:58

that's impressive. Yeah. So a

10:00

shit ton of public pressure. Yeah. And like

10:02

we had both never experienced that before. So

10:05

it was very new to us. We

10:07

felt a lot of pressure. It was also like

10:09

a terrible, shitty foundation to start a relationship on

10:11

because I've obviously been like dating all these other

10:14

guys. So then being engaged the second time, I'm

10:16

like, first of all, I never thought I would

10:18

get married in my whole life. I never dreamt

10:20

about my wedding. I was never like, I'm going

10:22

to get married. I'm totally with you. And I'm

10:24

now on my third and final marriage. See, there

10:26

you go. But now I get that. I'm like,

10:29

that makes a lot of sense. I think

10:31

there's no shame around divorce, around being engaged

10:33

the second time, because I'm like, hey, and

10:35

if it happens a third, not saying everyone's

10:37

going to be like, oh, God, she's hitting

10:39

a breakup. But to me, I'm like, who

10:41

cares? Who really cares? Yeah,

10:43

I so appreciate that. I'm like, shouldn't

10:46

that be commended for being like a

10:48

romantic and getting back on that horse?

10:51

In my opinion, it is. And I feel

10:53

like we're just so pressured by,

10:55

you know, people on social media or certain

10:57

people that are trying to follow this blueprint.

10:59

And what if that doesn't make you happy?

11:02

Why shouldn't we be commended for getting out

11:04

of something that made us unhappy and trying

11:06

something again? Like, I think it's beautiful.

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12:10

period. Caitlin,

12:14

you mentioned earlier about

12:16

your breakup before you

12:19

joined the universe. Yeah.

12:21

But will you tell us about that? Like

12:24

how did that end? And how

12:26

did you kind of get back on your feet? Well,

12:28

it was still to this day probably

12:31

the roughest time of my life. How

12:33

long was the relationship? It was three

12:35

years. So he played hockey.

12:37

Oh, athletes. Ugh, they'll get you.

12:41

And I still believe to this day that I actually had

12:43

a good one. I would say 95% of

12:46

athletes scare the hell out of me. And

12:48

I believe I had someone that was like such a

12:50

good person still to this day. And

12:52

so it was kind of tough because I was

12:54

at a place in my life where I had

12:56

to make a decision. I didn't get education. I

12:59

graduated high school and then I didn't go to college. I thought

13:01

I was going to dance my whole life. I

13:03

was like, I'm going to be a dancer and travel

13:05

the world. And I realized I wasn't good enough to

13:07

do that. And so I was like,

13:09

okay, I'm working at a restaurant trying to make it

13:11

as a dancer, teaching the spin.

13:14

And I was like, this is the guy I'm going to marry.

13:16

So I might as well go with him on his journey. You

13:18

know, he's a hockey player. So he had to go and he

13:21

was like a free agent. So he's getting traded and

13:23

he's going here and he's going there. And then he

13:25

got a bad injury. So we ended up in Germany.

13:28

And what happened was over that time, it's such

13:30

a fragile place in your life to try and

13:32

be deciding like, what do I want? But

13:35

you're not thinking that way at 25. You're like,

13:37

well, he wants this and I'll be here with

13:39

him. It's like dating an

13:41

actor in the sense of like the

13:43

constant uncertainty. The stakes feel

13:45

really high. And you're put

13:48

in a position of caretaker. Yes. Yes.

13:51

And I completely lost myself along the way.

13:53

I didn't really have friends because I couldn't

13:55

speak anybody's language in Germany. I couldn't get

13:57

a job. He was always on the road. I

14:00

did not want to ask for money, so I

14:02

would like get my own little phone plan that

14:04

like ran out and I couldn't Google things at

14:07

the grocery store and I couldn't even hear people's

14:09

conversations because I couldn't speak the language. I was

14:11

so lonely and I felt like I had nothing

14:13

to offer and I was a shell of myself

14:16

and I remember being like 97 pounds

14:18

and depressed and like just not okay. And

14:20

I think he kind of did me a

14:22

gracious favor by ending it even though at

14:24

the time I was like, this is the

14:27

worst thing that could ever happen to me.

14:29

Yeah. But I just couldn't live that lifestyle

14:31

and he knew that I couldn't and it

14:33

was obviously bringing him down and me down

14:35

and so he ended it and I had

14:37

no money. I had no job. I

14:40

had no ambition or career or education

14:42

and I was like, what is the

14:44

point? And it was so hard. So

14:47

did you fly back? I flew to

14:49

my parents. My mom and my stepdad

14:51

were in Phoenix and I flew there

14:54

immediately and lived at their house and

14:56

slept on the couch and I actually

14:59

got like a little bit addicted to Valium because

15:01

I would just numb myself and it just

15:03

got to a point where my mom was

15:06

actually coming in at night and putting on

15:08

a YouTube video of like hypnosis of like

15:10

you are okay. And eventually

15:12

it got so bad but it got

15:14

better. This is like the beginning of

15:17

a great rom-com. You're like

15:19

pulling the blanket over your head.

15:21

Your mom's like, the

15:23

sun is shining again, honey. Go

15:26

outside and you're like, I'm never going

15:28

to shine again in my heart. That

15:31

was me. It's like, I bet you're wondering

15:33

how I got here. You know, that whole

15:35

thing. That's like the start of my story.

15:37

But again, it was just like over time,

15:40

you have a choice where it's like, I

15:42

can continue to live on my parents couch

15:44

or I can like get back out there

15:46

and find a job, start working, like get

15:49

back to my friends. You lived like the

15:51

quintessential 20s experience. Your emotions

15:53

are still really raw like a

15:55

teenager's. And then when

15:57

you're in your 40s, Caitlin, you're just kind of like,

16:00

a numb. I can't wait.

16:04

Yeah, it's a good natural value. Yeah, that sounds

16:06

great. I can't wait. I was like two and

16:08

a half years away. Can't wait. Is

16:12

everyone asking you about like wedding shit?

16:14

Oh my gosh, yes. I was never

16:17

a wedding person either. Yeah. And I've

16:19

always felt like with my

16:21

career, I've had kind of enough

16:23

of my special moments that has

16:25

been wonderful. Yeah. Like I can

16:28

understand someone who really wants to

16:30

have their wedding day be like

16:33

their premiere, essentially.

16:36

And I already felt like I had the good

16:38

fortune of sort of experience some of those moments.

16:40

And also just growing up like you, I wasn't

16:43

even sure what my

16:45

journey was. Right. In terms of

16:47

marriage. Yeah. But

16:50

do you guys have like date and like

16:52

has it been stressful? No, good. Good for

16:54

you. We don't have a date. And I

16:56

go back and forth with, and this is

16:58

where social media can be stressful because I'm

17:00

such an open book and I share so

17:02

much of my life with people through social

17:04

media that I feel a little bit of

17:06

pressure because I'm like, I've opened up and

17:08

I've shared so much and I've talked about

17:10

this engagement and I was so excited. And

17:12

then I bring everyone along with me and

17:14

then I'm like, oh, people need to like

17:16

stop putting pressure on me. And they're like,

17:18

but you open up your world to us.

17:20

And I'm like, oh, that's true. And they

17:22

just care. And the thing about bachelor nation

17:24

and the followers, they're so loyal and they

17:26

care so much. And sometimes that can come

17:28

across as pressure. And sometimes I can get

17:30

frustrated. But at the end of the day,

17:32

Jason and I have just not set a

17:35

date. We have sat down so many times

17:37

to like try and be like, okay, let's

17:39

put together a guest list. And we both

17:41

get stressed out and overwhelmed and then we're

17:43

tired and we're like, screw it. It's a little

17:45

bit of like the catch me too, because you

17:47

start out, you need to like find

17:49

the venue in order to do that. You have

17:51

to figure out how many people you want. So

17:53

then the natural order is to start with a

17:56

guest list. And then it's like, wait, you want

17:58

to invite your coach's cousin from like. What?

18:00

No. Yes. Or it's

18:02

like, like that person's going to bring a

18:04

date and then that's an extra 150 bucks.

18:06

I know. It's crazy. So I would

18:08

suggest eloping. Tell Jason that because I

18:10

would totally elope. He's the one that's

18:13

thought about like the dream wedding. But

18:15

I mean, now that we've talked about

18:17

it and gone over like the guest

18:19

list or the budget or he's totally

18:21

into finances and budgeting and he's like

18:23

a wedding is so expensive.

18:25

It's so expensive. And I always

18:27

say that like people kind of

18:29

show their hands. Like if they have

18:32

like some kind of grievance, they're going

18:34

to bring it to the table and

18:36

it's annoying. And then other people will

18:38

kind of surprise you with their chillness

18:40

and their support. Right. But yeah, I

18:42

do think that weddings are just so

18:44

tricky. What I always like, because we

18:46

get a lot of callers who have

18:48

wedding questions, which I love. Yeah. Like

18:50

the biggest advice is getting on the

18:52

plane the next day, going on a

18:54

honeymoon. The next day, not putting it

18:56

off, especially if you have a big

18:58

wedding or a sizable wedding, there's

19:00

like that December 26. If you

19:02

celebrate Christmas, yes, that feeling of like,

19:05

oh, like, what now? Like there isn't

19:07

that thing that we're like the happiness

19:09

hangover. Yes. Yeah. Like so many of

19:12

our conversations have been focused around this

19:14

massive party celebrating us. Yep. And our

19:16

future. Yep. And so having

19:19

that idea to like decompress something

19:21

else to look forward to, I

19:23

just think it's really important. I still think Caitlin,

19:26

if I could plan a wedding for you and

19:28

Jason, it would be to elope

19:30

to Tahiti, like maybe do it legally

19:32

someplace, yeah, quietly, whatever eloped to Tahiti

19:34

and have like a big country ranch,

19:36

hoedown party with everybody. That sounds ideal.

19:38

And honestly, the longer time that goes

19:40

on, the more that sounds very appealing

19:42

to both of us. Yeah. I think

19:44

this is kind of just for you

19:47

guys and how you guys want to

19:49

proceed. So many people are like, if

19:51

you guys wanted to get married, you

19:53

would do it. Why are you finding

19:55

so many excuses? And I'm like, it's

19:57

not even excuses. It's truly just stressful.

20:00

And you guys are busy. Yeah,

20:02

so busy. And it's easy to,

20:04

if you have like a great

20:06

support system, which is

20:08

necessary, but it's hard to dedicate

20:10

a ton of energy and money.

20:12

Yes. Into a big party for everybody. Yeah,

20:15

it's true. It's true. Honestly,

20:18

eloping is sounding like right up my

20:20

alley. Caitlin, where is your

20:22

studio? I'm in Nashville. Do you

20:24

love Nashville? I do. I love

20:26

it. I lived in Canada like

20:28

for so long. Like Vancouver. Vancouver, yeah. Because

20:31

I grew up in Seattle, so I'm like... Oh, you did?

20:33

Of that vibe, yeah. Oh, oh my gosh. I

20:36

love Seattle. But I've

20:38

never been to Nashville and people love it.

20:40

Yeah, it's a good time. The weather is

20:42

bananas. Like yesterday it was 78, today it's

20:44

42. Like it's just bananas, but

20:46

it's such a fun city. Do you think of

20:48

that as home? Yes. I

20:51

would say this is just starting to feel like

20:53

that now because I have been here now

20:55

seven years, but Vancouver used to feel like

20:57

that for me, but it really doesn't anymore.

20:59

So I would say Nashville, yeah. Vancouver can

21:01

be a cold city. I've worked there a

21:03

few times and it can be cold in

21:06

the sense of, you know, it's hard to

21:08

make friends. Yes. Which

21:10

is so bizarre for Canada. I felt that

21:12

same way. Yeah, Seattle can be like that

21:14

too. Yeah, they call it the Seattle Freeze.

21:16

Isn't that what it is? Yeah. Yeah,

21:19

people are really polite, but not

21:21

warm. Yeah. The first

21:23

time I went to New Orleans,

21:25

I was like, what is happening?

21:27

I'm invited to this stranger's crawfish

21:29

boil. This is incredible. Yes. And

21:32

I think it is really shocking when you've

21:34

never experienced that before. Yeah, I agree. It

21:36

felt like that where I grew up, but

21:39

Vancouver, not so much. Like I grew up in

21:41

Alberta and then moved to Vancouver when I was 20

21:43

and Alberta felt like that.

21:46

And then Vancouver didn't. And then I got used to that. And

21:48

then I came into the South and I was like, oh,

21:50

so nice. Yeah. Yeah. It

21:53

was so nice. It was so nice. Kelsey.

22:06

Hello. Hi. I'm here with Caitlin who

22:08

I really want to be like her

22:10

new best friend. You are. I adore

22:12

you. Kelsey, I adore you too. Thank

22:15

you so much for your letter. Will

22:17

you tell us what's going on? So I'm

22:20

looking for some sperm. Well,

22:24

I want to have a baby. So

22:27

you are 37. Yes. And

22:30

you really want to be a

22:32

mom. Yeah. Which is, listen, there's

22:34

no judgment at all in these

22:36

questions. But does it supersede

22:38

the idea of a relationship? It

22:40

sounds like it does. Yeah. I

22:42

mean, that would be ideal, but

22:44

that's not something I feel like

22:46

I need. Great. Okay. So tell

22:48

us your story now that we have a little bit of

22:50

that context. I mean, I've wanted a child,

22:53

it was this past year that I decided, because I've

22:55

always said like, Oh, I want

22:57

to be a mother, but it doesn't matter

22:59

how I become a mother. But then this

23:01

past year, I started to think I would

23:03

like to have a baby and carry it.

23:06

I'm also a birth doula. So I'm around

23:08

pregnant people and babies all the time. I

23:11

love it that that makes you smile, by

23:13

the way. Yeah, it's great. I just want

23:15

to create art and help people have babies.

23:17

Like that's what I want to do with

23:19

my life. That's why I'm here on this

23:21

rock flying through space. And I would

23:23

really like to do it. I've been

23:26

in a relationship before where I helped

23:28

parent a child. And it was really

23:30

hard, but I really liked it. Do

23:32

you have access to that child anymore?

23:34

They're old enough now that we can

23:37

text. Okay. So occasionally we text like

23:39

they're old enough now. Okay. But yeah,

23:41

oh, that was hard. Like it was

23:43

a while ago, but that was hard.

23:46

I am single, like the pandemic did

23:48

not help with that at all. You're

23:50

not alone. And I am trying to

23:52

get back out there, but it's hard

23:54

to meet people. I don't

23:56

like the apps. They're awful. They're not fun.

23:59

And And I don't know,

24:01

like I couldn't drink and I'm not somebody

24:03

who like goes out a lot, but I've

24:05

been going out more and doing more fun

24:07

things. But it's also hard because I'm like,

24:09

this is what I want to do. 37,

24:12

which is not completely, you know,

24:15

too old. Not at all. Okay,

24:17

my long journey with like motherhood

24:19

has been a little different. I

24:21

wasn't even sure I necessarily wanted

24:24

to have kids. My career felt

24:26

very important to me. I

24:28

got pregnant at 35 after trying mildly for a year,

24:31

you know? Yeah.

24:36

Interpret that however you will. I

24:40

was really surprised about how I wouldn't

24:42

say I enjoyed pregnancy. I was definitely

24:45

counting the days, but I felt really

24:47

good. I felt really like emotionally stable.

24:50

There were surprises and now I have like

24:52

an awesome 10 year old. He was born

24:54

at 31 weeks. My water

24:56

broke at 30. So he was like three pounds

24:58

and we did the whole, you know, but

25:01

he's awesome and we're really lucky and

25:03

I feel really grateful. When

25:06

I first read your letter, I was really

25:08

thinking, I kind of hope I can convince

25:10

her to use a sperm donor. How

25:13

does that register with you? I

25:15

have friends who have done that and it

25:18

makes me a little bit nervous about them

25:20

having so many siblings.

25:23

That is something that makes me

25:25

nervous and also is expensive. I

25:27

mean, the sperm part is like 800

25:29

to $1,000 a vial and they

25:31

suggest doing it four times before doing

25:34

IVF type stuff and then that could

25:36

be even more. I

25:38

have friends that sent over $100,000 to make their family. Oh,

25:42

it can be a fortune. Yeah. Yeah.

25:45

And I feel like I don't know. I mean, I

25:48

also haven't gone to see a fertility specialist or anything

25:50

like that yet, but I know what you mean because

25:52

if I want to do it alone, then I

25:54

mean, I'm not trying to trap somebody or anything

25:56

like that. I just feel like if your drive

25:59

is... to have

26:01

a baby before you're 40. I

26:05

want you to have that. On

26:07

the other side of this, Kelsey,

26:10

our callers feel so much pressure

26:12

to make big life decisions immediately.

26:15

Like, should I get married? Should I quit my job?

26:18

Should I move across the country? Like,

26:20

how do I propel forward? Like,

26:22

somehow this other cloud came in

26:24

that was like, make decisions right

26:26

now. I wish I

26:28

could tell everyone it's okay. Like,

26:31

the train is just slowly

26:33

leaving the station. We

26:35

don't have to make these massive

26:37

life decisions. Kelsey, I do understand

26:40

that you are 37 and

26:43

it may take a minute for you to get pregnant. I

26:45

don't want to discount that. But

26:47

Caitlin, what are your thoughts? I love

26:49

listening and Kelsey, thank you so much

26:51

for sharing this with us too. Like,

26:53

it's so personal. Sometimes you need community

26:55

and people to talk this through and

26:58

to have a better understanding or

27:00

idea or feel seen and heard. So

27:02

thank you. I'm also 37 and

27:04

I too want to have babies and

27:08

I think about this stuff all the time.

27:11

So when I was hearing your question and

27:13

things that you've been feeling, I was like,

27:15

oh, I can understand that. I am engaged.

27:17

So it's a different situation. But I've often

27:19

thought that I could do it on my

27:22

own before. So to me,

27:24

obviously the expense thing, that's

27:26

something, but it was actually a question for you.

27:29

Firm donors can be artificially inseminated without doing

27:31

IVF at a lower cost, right? And is

27:33

that still what you're talking about? It's called

27:35

an IUI. One of my friends, she did

27:37

it herself. Like so with a midwife, like

27:40

she- Is it like a turkey baster? Like

27:42

is that kind of- It is, but I

27:44

mean, it's a lot smaller than a turkey

27:46

baster, but she plunged it herself. So she

27:48

inseminated herself, yeah. And is that still expensive

27:50

to do? Well, yeah, it's like the firm,

27:52

I think it was between 800 and $1,000

27:55

from what she said. One

27:59

time, like that's- something that I feel

28:01

is doable. But if

28:03

it doesn't work, then doing it again, you know, I

28:05

would just have to save for it. Yeah. And I

28:07

feel like you should just start with that. Like you

28:09

already seem a little bit discouraged with it, where it's

28:11

like you can just start once and see what happens.

28:15

But also, is there a way to request

28:18

a sperm that has only been used like

28:20

X amount of times? I don't

28:22

know. I mean, I think so. Because I know

28:24

you're worried that it would be like a lot

28:26

of the siblings out there, but. I kind of

28:28

feel like that's a non-issue. Yeah. To me, that

28:30

would not be make or break at

28:32

all. Because I would have my own

28:35

very personal relationship and then kind of

28:37

deal with that stuff as the kid

28:39

gets older. Yeah. Yeah. You'd have to

28:41

be transparent about, hey, before you're intimate

28:43

with somebody, like asking them, do you

28:45

know if you have a sperm donor?

28:47

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29:54

know how we sometimes use different

29:56

avenues to express our stress, and

29:58

I always use. the example of

30:01

like the mother-in-law at a wedding

30:03

wearing a similar color to the

30:05

mother of the bride and like

30:07

spinning out about that when really

30:09

the heart of the issue is

30:11

that she's just terrified of the

30:13

change. That's just how

30:15

I feel is that the

30:18

sperm donor world, that

30:20

person should be very separate I

30:22

think from this important relationship. They

30:24

made the decision to donate sperm

30:27

for whatever reason and that

30:29

is totally fine and you

30:31

made the decision to utilize that

30:34

to care and nurture for

30:36

a baby. I'm wondering in your

30:38

doula world are there resources that

30:40

you can tap that maybe you

30:42

haven't yet because I

30:44

do understand that there's some financial issue

30:47

you know but you could reach out

30:49

and get advice and ask

30:51

some early initial questions about like

30:54

how do I make sure that

30:56

I'm fertile without spending a lot

30:58

of money like can I take

31:00

a specific drug that will help

31:02

my fertility. I took

31:04

a drug that I can't remember what it

31:06

was but it's been used since like the

31:08

70s you take it at specific times during

31:10

the month. There's like a 50-50 chance this

31:13

is what my doctor told me that it actually works or maybe

31:16

she said there was a 50-50 chance I

31:18

was gonna have twins. Oh is

31:20

it starts with a C? Yes it

31:22

does yeah yeah which I think is

31:24

relatively inexpensive maybe in your

31:26

world like is there anyone you

31:29

can think of with that kind

31:31

of resource that you could cold

31:33

call and say this is something

31:35

I really want to think seriously

31:37

about because the finding a partner

31:39

yeah is a whole

31:41

different thing and

31:43

it sounds like your focus is you

31:46

want to experience motherhood. Oh

31:48

yeah there are people definitely I mean

31:51

this is something that I've just started to

31:53

talk about and then I was like well

31:55

a podcast is a really good way to

31:57

like let everybody know that I'm this is

31:59

very good. or the D-axis is. Gart

32:02

is a podcast and then

32:04

talk to a medical professional.

32:06

Definitely. Well, you'd never know what doors that could

32:08

open. That's what I was telling my friends. I

32:11

mean, like one of my friends was doing something

32:13

somewhere and was telling somebody and then they were

32:15

like, I think I wanna have a child, but

32:17

I don't have a, you know? And so she

32:19

was like, let me know if you wanna talk

32:22

to this person. And so, you know, I mean,

32:24

I'm like, maybe that way, you know? Why not?

32:27

I'm like, I don't know. I mean, at

32:29

this point in life, it feels like

32:31

at least go have coffee with this

32:33

fella. Maybe if he wants to have

32:35

a no strings attached baby with you.

32:37

Or it's like, if they want to

32:39

like co-parenting with somebody that's not like

32:42

you're in a relationship with, but even

32:44

people who are married don't know how

32:46

they're gonna co-parent until they're a parent

32:48

and they're like, right. Yeah, they're a

32:50

couple, but they have very different views

32:52

and ideas. Yeah. That is

32:54

common. I think that that is the majority of

32:57

people. Yeah,

32:59

no, I do have people that I can

33:01

talk to about that. And I'm not totally

33:03

against a sperm donor. I

33:05

just was like, that would be a

33:08

lot easier to just get pregnant by

33:10

having sex. But there hasn't been anything

33:12

that's been happening very much. I'm like,

33:15

where is everybody? Do you live

33:17

in a big city, Kelsey? I

33:19

live in Nashville. Me too. Oh

33:21

my gosh, hi. There's something some kids

33:23

met here. Also, one of my best

33:25

friends is a fertility nurse and I

33:27

would love to even just have you

33:29

have a conversation with her. Oh my

33:31

God, this feels like angels. This is

33:33

some weird, like I feel like we

33:35

were all supposed to have this conversation

33:37

today. I'm getting a little goosebumps.

33:40

Yeah, but Kelsey, you

33:42

know what's interesting about, well, I mean,

33:44

this is amazing, but what's also interesting

33:46

about this, Kelsey, is that I was

33:48

gonna ask about your socialization right now.

33:51

And I'll put this in context in

33:53

terms of me. I

33:55

quarantined heart. I

33:58

did not see any. I puzzled

34:01

my ass off. I

34:03

was like, I don't need to act anymore.

34:05

I'm gonna knit hats for a living. Like

34:08

my very few friends, because I'm the kind of

34:10

person that has like two or three really close

34:12

friends and now Caitlin. I was like, me too,

34:14

and now you. But

34:17

when I first started even just going

34:19

to the grocery store or something, all

34:21

my interactions felt really awkward. And

34:24

I felt like people were looking at me with

34:26

like quizzical eyes. And I internalized

34:28

that as like, God, I must have just said

34:31

something really odd. Did I forget how

34:33

to talk to people? Yeah, totally. I

34:35

work at a health food store and

34:37

so I didn't get to like hide

34:39

from people. So I was there out

34:42

in the public. Okay, good. So you

34:44

didn't have that problem. But the people

34:46

you're seeing every day aren't the people

34:48

that you care about that are your,

34:50

I mean, I care about them as

34:53

humans, but like your people. So sometimes

34:55

you get full like, I can't, do

34:57

any more, but you're like, I didn't

34:59

get connections today with like my

35:01

people. But I started to do

35:03

more stuff. Good. Like

35:05

improv stuff. Cool. So like just

35:08

sitting out there and participating more

35:10

in that community too, because it's

35:12

really fun. I used to

35:14

act in lots of stuff, but I

35:17

focus more on birth work now. It

35:20

would have to be something that would fit

35:22

in with that now. That's the way I

35:24

view it now. I just wanted to make

35:26

sure, because I do talk to a lot

35:28

of callers that have not expanded in

35:31

order to kind of combat that feeling

35:33

of like loneliness or stir craziness

35:35

or immediate decision making. I

35:38

often give advice, which is like, how

35:40

can you socialize in a way that

35:42

makes you happy? How can you, outside

35:45

of work, you know, the idea of

35:47

meeting new people, the idea of new

35:49

stranger interactions, but it sounds like you

35:52

feel good on that front. Oh, yeah.

35:54

I mean, I wasn't seeing anybody for

35:56

a while, you know, and then like

35:58

having like more depressive time. then you

36:00

like don't invite people over that kind of

36:02

stuff. And you're at a raw time. Right

36:04

now. Yeah. Yeah. But I have been going

36:07

out and doing stuff more. Good. I just

36:09

get such good energy from you. And I

36:11

feel like you're meant to be a mom,

36:13

you're meant to do this. And

36:15

I know the dating apps and everything are

36:18

so painful. But have you ever thought about

36:20

just being completely honest on one of them

36:22

and saying what you're looking for? Or does

36:24

that sound too scary? No, I haven't done

36:26

that yet. I'm just starting to talk about

36:29

it and be like, this is something that I

36:31

want to do. But I have been

36:33

talking to somebody about doing that. I need

36:35

to get some new pictures. Yeah, I want

36:37

to encourage you to do that. Why not?

36:39

Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin, I really sort of love

36:41

this suggestion. You might get a lot of

36:43

creeps, Kelsey. Yeah, but there is nothing

36:45

to lose. If it's like,

36:48

this has been percolating in me for a

36:50

long time. I want this experience.

36:52

You know, yeah, let me know your thoughts.

36:54

Yeah. Yeah. There are people out there that

36:56

could like you said, you already met somebody

36:58

that you know, wants the same thing. And

37:00

like go for coffee with that person, you

37:02

know, like have those conversations. I mean, you

37:04

just talking about it as putting it out

37:06

into the universe. And that means

37:08

that that's something that you want in your

37:10

life and you're going to attract it somehow.

37:13

But again, like same thing that we're saying

37:15

is don't put so much pressure on yourself

37:17

for it to happen like now. Yeah, coming

37:19

out of the quarantine. This

37:21

is a raw time for you. I just

37:24

want you to be so gentle with

37:26

yourself. That was something I was talking

37:28

to one of my friends about it's

37:30

like working on like healing some stuff.

37:32

I mean, I just also moved my

37:34

face isn't even it's like not even

37:36

ready for me really, you know, so

37:38

like thinking about another person, you know,

37:40

yeah, so it's just like starting to

37:43

tell people to think about like, this is something that I

37:45

want to do. That's great. So then when people ask me

37:47

about it, I'm like, Yeah, I'm, you know,

37:50

open to talk to people about it. Good.

37:52

I'm glad that you're kind of at the

37:54

beginning of this journey. Yeah, it's good to

37:56

recognize that this is the little seed that's

37:59

slowly. starting to

38:01

be like watered and fertilized

38:04

and slowly starting to sprout.

38:07

Yeah. No decision has to be made today.

38:09

No decision has to be made in

38:11

a month. Caitlin, if you're willing to

38:13

give me the info of your fertility friend,

38:15

if you think she would be a good

38:17

resource, she would. I think that sounds great.

38:19

Yeah, I would love to talk. I mean,

38:21

it would also be helpful in just other

38:23

stuff too, just, you know, to talk to

38:25

them about that. Because they might know probably

38:27

would know other things that obviously I don't

38:29

know, especially since I'm new on this

38:32

journey with myself. You might have to

38:34

have some blood work done. Yeah. No,

38:36

she helped me with everything. I froze

38:38

my eggs about five years ago. Good

38:40

for you. Yeah. See that's smart. I'm

38:43

really happy I did that. That is

38:45

not an easy journey. That's a lot.

38:47

No, it was a lot. And she

38:49

really helped me through everything. And she

38:51

is incredible just to have a conversation

38:54

with and I know she was for

38:56

you. Absolutely. That's so nice. Yeah. And

38:58

we can just start it slowly. I

39:00

totally agree with you with that. This is the

39:03

very beginning of it. And my mom

39:05

didn't have me until she was 38. She had my brother

39:07

when she was 39. And

39:09

I also am glad that I haven't

39:12

had any children yet because I'm in

39:14

such a better space than I was

39:16

in my 20s. Yeah, yes. Timing is

39:18

everything 100% I

39:20

felt that way. Yes. Kelsey, I

39:22

can't thank you enough. I will get

39:25

the information from Caitlin and pass it

39:27

along. Thank you for taking the time

39:29

today. Thank you so much, Kelsey, because

39:31

you're not alone. Yeah, like I know that there's

39:34

a whole lot of people out there that

39:36

want to have kids that are feeling that

39:38

clock and you have a lot of love

39:41

to give and you want to be a

39:43

mom and that is glorious. Yeah. Yeah. Sending

39:45

you a lot of love, Kelsey. Yeah. Thank

39:47

you both. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Thank

39:49

you. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. What

39:57

a sweetie. Caitlin, I'm just really

39:59

so grateful. that you came on

40:01

the podcast and I really, really want to

40:03

be your friends. Well, we are friends now.

40:05

Good. You're stuck with me forever because I

40:08

feel the same way and I'm just so

40:10

grateful that you had me on and I

40:12

loved this past hour. I just feel a

40:14

kinship with you. I feel like a bit

40:17

of a nerd because I'm like, I can't

40:19

stop smiling. Like I agree. I just, I'm

40:21

so grateful for you. So thank you. And

40:23

Caitlin, thank you for being so generous to

40:26

our caller. Oh my gosh. That was like

40:28

an extension above and beyond. When

40:30

people show up so authentic and raw like

40:32

that, I feel so much connection to people

40:34

that do that because I don't find that

40:36

very often, I guess. And so

40:39

when people want to just like share

40:41

something so intimate and be heard and

40:43

seen, and I'm like, Oh, I want

40:45

to help her. Like it made me

40:48

a little emotional. So I just so

40:50

appreciate and love you so much. Thank

40:52

you again. I love you. Thank you.

40:54

That was so wonderful. Bye Caitlin. Bye.