0:08

Welcome back all the Smoke, episode

0:11

eight. Man, I got a super special

0:14

guests. Man, I don't get excited for too much ship. Y'all

0:16

know that the honorable. But this dude right here,

0:18

man welcome, oh, Man,

0:21

appreciate, Man, thank you, appreciate.

0:23

You have to be here for y'all. You know that. I

0:26

do have a question. Can I start off with an

0:29

interview? Why I'm on the

0:31

couch with you but he's sitting in the King's seat

0:33

like, I mean, well, you know what I'm just wondering.

0:36

I mean, I'm gonna explain to you, and I'm explaining to okay,

0:39

because you know, both of us are great

0:41

team players, right We're both playing our role.

0:45

I play a great role of feeding off him, and

0:47

that's the better seat as far as the production and

0:49

all that. So he belongs that belong, I

0:52

belong, true,

0:56

calm and mellow, all that stuff

0:59

is different differently. That's

1:04

but let's get to it. Man. Tell us, I

1:06

mean I compare you to an athlete from a standpoint,

1:09

if you're recognized everywhere you go. We

1:11

know all the basics, but tell us

1:13

who Stephen A. Smith is from your upbringing

1:15

right here in New York Native

1:17

of Hollance, Queens. Born in the Bronx, raised

1:20

in Queens. Um I

1:23

raised by the greatest mom in the world. God rested

1:25

social passed where a couple of years ago. Back

1:27

to the long battle with cancer. She's

1:30

married to my dad for sixty

1:32

sixty one years. Um, that's

1:35

her old school, old school, you know he

1:38

you know, he and I had our differences because

1:40

you know, he could have treated a better, but

1:43

he's still my dad and I loved him.

1:45

Um. But because of that, I was extra tight

1:47

with her. And I was the youngest

1:49

of six, had an older brother. He died

1:52

in a car accident to Waco, Texas in

1:54

nine. Was like in this van there

1:57

was a salesman traveling salesman and

1:59

it was fifth team people in one of those sales

2:01

man and the driver was

2:04

messing with the radio and stuff like that, and

2:07

um, it flipped over

2:09

numerous times. And he was the only

2:11

one that died. Right.

2:13

He was right my years

2:17

and I was. My brother was twenty five when he died

2:20

and I was sixteen. Yeah, and I know that affected

2:22

my life. So I'm here you talk about it now, and

2:25

it was it was crazy altering because first of

2:27

all, you start questioning a lot of things.

2:29

It's like you're growing up and

2:33

this is your big brother who supported you. I

2:35

got left back in the fourth grade because I got the first

2:37

grade reading level. I remember cats

2:39

in the neighborhood laughing at me, laughing

2:42

like I was a dummy, I was an idiot or whatever.

2:44

And the reason why I bring that up is because if there's

2:46

ever anything that inspired me that

2:48

made me hungry, it was making

2:51

sure that that laughter would never arrive

2:53

again. So the reason why it's relatable

2:55

to this conversation talking to y'all, who I've

2:57

been interviewing for years as NBA

3:00

is is that I've always been no nonsense,

3:02

but I've always been straight. You know, you see me

3:05

coming. If I got an issue with you, I'm gonna let

3:07

you know. If I got something I gotta report, you ain't gonna

3:09

like I'm gonna tell you. You know, all of that other

3:11

stuff, All of that stuff comes

3:13

from, believe it or not, that because

3:16

when people were laughing, they weren't just laughing

3:18

in front of your face. They were laughing behind your back.

3:20

They were ridiculing you. They were minimizing

3:23

you, were diminishing you. And then somehow, some way,

3:25

they would come in your face and they would smile

3:27

and didn't act like they were supportive of you, and they

3:29

weren't. So I was always a kind

3:31

of person growing up knowing

3:33

that my mother was straight

3:35

with me. But sometimes you have relatives

3:38

that weren't straight for you, friends that weren't straight with

3:40

you. I always proude of myself and being

3:42

a person that would be straight, that would

3:44

be fear. You see me coming. You might not

3:46

like it, but I will always hit you here,

3:49

will meet you in the back, and would be it'll be right

3:51

here. And so that same approach

3:53

is what I took with me wherever I

3:55

went. And so I went to school, and

3:58

I was stupidly telling my mother I didn't want

4:00

to go to college, so she made me go to a trade school,

4:02

Thomas Edison Vocation On Technical Height

4:04

School right here in Queens, where I learned electrical installation.

4:07

But then they discovered I could play some ball.

4:09

I wanted as good as y'all, but I could ball, I

4:12

could shoot, and I had heart, And so I

4:14

got a scholarship to Winston Salem State.

4:16

But it was after I did junior college at f

4:18

I T, which was fashions to the

4:20

technology laugh

4:23

at me about it. But I had two things

4:25

going for us, right, Oh, no, no

4:27

doubt. I

4:31

had two advantages. Number one, we

4:33

were thirty five and fours the junior college

4:35

ranged fifteenth in the nation. And number

4:37

two, it was

4:39

primarily a girls school and

4:42

the other dudes were homosexuals.

4:44

That's dead business, don't get me right. But what

4:47

I'm saying, those who were not left

4:50

it all to us. So

4:52

college was beautiful to me. That

4:55

was before I went down to Winston Salem

4:57

and playing for big house games. And when I

4:59

tried out for him and one of the guys

5:01

that used to play at the University

5:03

at Winston Salem, his name was Harold Funny

5:05

Kid, played in the seventies. Brought me down there

5:07

for a tryout and coach put me

5:10

on the squad against the starters, and I hit

5:12

seventeen straight three pointers, sign

5:14

me the scholarship on the spot, you

5:16

know. But my first year, they had cracked my knee cap

5:18

in half. When I cracked my knee cap

5:20

and half, first of all, I was I was down there at a hundred pounds.

5:24

I was a little pleased, So that's bad enough

5:26

then, But then I cracked my knee cap in half.

5:28

It was a D two school, so they

5:30

didn't have the facilities like the big schools

5:32

had to help you rehabilitate, had to come

5:35

home for rehabbing all of that other stuff. And my mother

5:37

said, well, what you're gonna do? And sure

5:39

enough, I could write, I could report, um,

5:42

I could do all of those different things. And a critical

5:44

and persuasive writing teachers saw me and

5:46

said, you're a born sportswriter. Let

5:48

me take you out to lunch next week and talk about

5:50

it. And I didn't know, but he took

5:53

me out to lunch. It was with the sports editor

5:55

for the Winston Salem Journal. He took me

5:57

to his office. The man met me, hid

5:59

me with than five minutes to start

6:01

off as a clerk and everything. And then I

6:04

just went from doing that to being

6:06

a beat writer for Wake for our soccer to

6:08

ultimately doing internships in Winter Salem,

6:11

Greensboro, Atlanta before

6:13

getting my first job at the New York Daily News is

6:15

a high school sports reporter. Stayed

6:17

there for fourteen months. Philadelphia Inquiry

6:20

came calling. I did, went there, got

6:22

promoted like nine times, covered eight

6:25

every days of

6:27

his career, the whole bit. And that's

6:30

basically, it's basically,

6:32

well, tell me tell me about in the eighties, growing

6:35

up with the basketball in the eighties out here in New York. To man,

6:37

listen, let me tell you something. Well, first of all, see

6:40

to me, I grew up idolizing

6:42

Dwayne Pearl Washington. Gress

6:44

Pearl was something spect to me. He was the greatest

6:46

college ball player I I've ever seen Michael Jordan,

6:48

and everybody was like they was. Don't get me wrong,

6:51

they want another level eventually, but

6:53

on the collegiate level. At that time,

6:55

when this brother rode in the severe cues, I'm

6:58

telling you right now, I remember one of the most

7:00

memorable moments watching Dwayne

7:02

Pearl Washington was when he lost the Big

7:04

East title to Mark Jackson

7:06

and st John Mark Jackson, Walter Berry, Willie

7:09

Glass, all of those cats at the garden

7:11

and it was the last play they had. I think it was

7:13

either Jackson or Willy Glass. I think it was Mark Jackson.

7:16

You're here the jump shot, and the next thing

7:18

you know, it's only a few seconds left, and Dwayne

7:20

Pearl Washington grabbed the ball

7:23

and pushed it up the court and literally

7:25

danced through five dudes and

7:28

then went in for a layup and it missed,

7:30

like back in the river. You

7:33

could remember was that this kid's handle

7:36

was so nasty. I remember Jeane Smith

7:38

that Georgetown was considered this defensive eight,

7:40

and Pearl, you know, buckled him to his

7:42

knees and a whole bit. So I grew up in that

7:44

eraor watching Dwayne Pearl, Washington, watching

7:47

Kenny Anderson, Ross Mark Jackson

7:49

obviously in the whole bit. So that was the

7:51

error that I grew up in and

7:53

and playing ball at that time, just traveling

7:55

in the streets and everything like that. You have to have hard,

7:58

you have to have hard. And you was going up against cat from

8:00

all over the country. Well they had hard. To New

8:02

York thought it was it, but then you

8:04

what you really got assist a New

8:07

York City Cats catball one on

8:09

one, but that actual team

8:11

concept. All the places

8:13

managers other places had avengager

8:16

because in New York it was the hardware. It was Rutgers

8:18

Park. You could go to Stating. Now you can go to

8:20

Brooklyn, you can go right here on west Ford Street,

8:22

Rutgers Hall and one and

8:25

Lennox. You had all of those places, and you had

8:27

Katch who could dance and be one on one. But

8:30

part of our problem as New York basketball

8:32

players was disciplined, you know, playing

8:34

within a team structure, not taking

8:37

over, taking control, believing

8:39

that you were it. The dudes that got

8:41

that were the successful ones,

8:43

the Kenny Anderson's, the

8:45

Stephen at one point, stuff

8:48

like that. I always knew Marvin is gonna better than Phelippe

8:50

Lopez. I wasn't caught up in that

8:56

he was he was the man. He was the man because he went

8:58

to Rice and I was a high school It's right for the New

9:00

York Daily News at the time, and I was the

9:02

first one that wrote the article, y'all

9:04

keep talking about this cat Philippe. Is

9:07

this dude here, step on Marlbury.

9:10

That's going to be specially because when I looked at Phelipe,

9:13

I pay attention stuff, nice sleek

9:15

frame. The friended defendant

9:17

was fundamentally sound, but did not

9:19

have a reliable jump shot at

9:22

all. And I said, that is not Marbury's

9:24

problem. Marbury could get to the whole at will.

9:27

He could pull up from ft,

9:29

he got a handle, he could pass. He

9:31

was a pure point guard and didn't mind

9:34

ripping you apart while playing a

9:36

teen game. So I always knew

9:38

he was going to be better, but it was cats

9:41

like Karee Read that played and

9:43

ultimately went to ice. He's

9:47

are the guys that I go watch God Sham

9:49

God wells. It was all world

9:51

with the handle, but the jump

9:53

shot was suspect. If God Sham

9:56

God had a jump shot, I'm

9:58

telling you right now, would have been and you and they couldn't Gard

10:00

and even the closest

10:03

thing to Pearl in terms of his handle, in

10:05

terms of his hand and what he could do with his boy handles skill,

10:07

but he couldn't finished from the perimeter.

10:10

Shad one of my twins, we were in au

10:12

turnament one time when they were ten years old, and he pulled

10:14

the Sham God and I blew my

10:16

mind and it worked and he hid it and passed my

10:18

other twin. He hit at corner three and I asked, it was

10:20

like, you know what, when you know what that move is called, who

10:23

made that move up? I just seen CP three do

10:25

it, Dad, like they don't understand where

10:28

it comes from. And that kind of and that kind

10:30

of takes me back to you seen from

10:32

the legends in New York to the early eighties

10:34

of the NBA. The nineties two thousand to what

10:37

the game is today? Walk us through that transition

10:39

of style of play and what

10:42

you think about it from now to then. Well, I

10:44

think that. Listen in

10:47

the eighties again, because

10:49

I was playing, and I was young, and I wasn't

10:51

a journalist. All you saw

10:53

is where you were at. So you in New

10:55

York, you saw New York, but we new

10:57

York is so we think we know, we

11:00

think we know, but we don't really know, because

11:02

unless you're traveling, you really really don't know.

11:05

And again, that individuality came

11:07

to it. You saw more of a team

11:10

concept in the nineties because

11:13

remember from a from

11:15

a collective standpoint, team orient at the standpoint

11:17

where you think basketball in the eighties, you thought

11:20

joya paranoia, You thought John Thompson,

11:22

you ain't Michael Graham, Michael

11:24

you know, Michael Jackson. Point guard Reggie Williams

11:27

was nasty. He could play all

11:29

of those cats, right, So you had that, But

11:31

their signature was defense. They could shut you

11:33

down and literally rip your heart out

11:35

of your chest. They're scared to live in hell out of you.

11:38

That's right. Then you go Villanova with the four corners

11:41

at Pickney, McClean and those boys that might

11:43

have disrupted them that one thing. They held the damn

11:45

ball for the whole damn Final National Championship

11:47

game. But it was what it was, okay. And

11:49

then of course you saw Syracuse St.

11:51

John's, all of those cats coming uh with Kenny

11:54

Anderson, remember Leaf, the Weapon three Georgia

11:56

tech n Oliver Dennis got three days,

11:58

the whole crew. You saw all of that. So that was

12:00

going into the nineties. Even though

12:02

you saw individuality, what

12:04

to me really took it to another level was

12:07

talk in U N l V. Greg

12:09

Anthony, Stacy Algman, Larry Johnson

12:11

and the crew. You saw these guys right,

12:14

They defended and they played

12:16

together. And even though I'm not sure people

12:18

really think about it the way that I do, I

12:21

give Larry Johnson a whole lot of credit

12:23

because he was miniature in height, but

12:26

he was massive, big, strong, and he

12:28

was a man amongst boys in the low post.

12:30

But he was the ultimate team player. He

12:33

didn't care he could score

12:35

and would give you his twenty on any given

12:37

night. But other nights where other Cats were

12:39

doing their thing, he was absolutely fine. Greg

12:42

Anthony took pride in defending you ninety

12:44

four feet and putting you on lockdown, Anderson

12:46

Hunt could shoot from three Stacy

12:48

Agman would dunk on their face one minute

12:51

and then block your shot and du up

12:53

another. So when you had all of this going

12:55

on, okay, Dan, remember they

12:57

were the rebels we called George Town,

13:00

the rebel you know, rebellious rebels.

13:02

Oh, the running rebels, I'm

13:05

saying. So you see all of that happening,

13:07

and you see them go against Duke

13:10

and annihilate them by thirty

13:12

for the national championship. The

13:15

next year comes out, they

13:17

got Grand Hill less time. They

13:19

faced you n l v in the semifinal

13:22

and they take you and l v our very very

13:24

close game, but they took him out. And that's where

13:26

Hurly and Christian Layton and those boys

13:28

ascended. When you saw that,

13:30

you start, I believe that

13:33

was the transition to a more team concept.

13:35

Only from this perspective, you

13:38

saw a white cats because obviously Larry

13:40

Bird, let you know, white boys can play, to make

13:42

no mistake about it. You saw that and you had

13:44

the respect. But in the same breath

13:47

that was as an individual. Collectively,

13:49

you didn't think a collection of them was

13:51

going to take you out, right, even

13:53

though we all know who no basketball,

13:56

you don't win beat that un l VT without

13:59

Grand Hill. We couldn't take away

14:01

from the heart that Hurly and

14:03

late in the show and going up against

14:05

so you saw cats. And even though again the

14:08

game was individualized to a strong degree

14:10

because of the eighties and because of the ascension

14:12

of Michael Jordan's you know, because you remember you

14:14

had Magic and burd going at and even though

14:16

they were the marquee dudes that were being

14:19

advertised, they played for elite

14:21

teams, so there was a team concept.

14:23

It was Jordan at individualized

14:26

stuff in our eyes, and so we got

14:28

caught up in the Jordan and Jordan and Jordan's.

14:30

Then it was a ninety two that we got reminded

14:33

of Hurly late in a team

14:35

And so now you started really really thinking

14:38

about basketball the way it should have been thought

14:40

about all along. You started looking at individual

14:42

talent, but how they pissed with

14:45

the team. And then you get into the finances

14:47

because you didn't have a rookie salary capitals,

14:50

the rookie wage scale. You got big

14:52

dog coming out of Burd due he saw

14:54

for sixty nine. He

14:56

wanted he got sixty Yeah,

15:01

I think, so what what what What happened

15:03

is it was Big Dog number one. Then

15:06

you had Grant Hill and Jason Kidd

15:08

both getting pretty much the same amount

15:10

of dollars. Right then you had

15:13

um See Webb coming out. But the same time

15:15

as Penny Hardaway. All right, that

15:18

rookie wage scale again wasn't in full effect

15:20

at that particular moment in time, so you

15:22

were still able to look at things from a team concept,

15:25

but in the same breath you started paying

15:27

attention to the individuals. You couldn't

15:29

help it because of the money individuals were getting

15:31

paid. But again, even though Big Dog

15:33

was a scoring machine, these guys

15:36

were relatively unselfish. Him,

15:38

especially Grant Hill and Jason Kidd,

15:40

didn't care if he scored at all. He would be

15:42

happy giving you fifteen twenty a sinst the night

15:44

if he could. So when you saw that,

15:47

it heightened the level of team

15:50

concept having that mentality, and

15:52

to me, it really really changed

15:54

the way things happened, because when you saw these

15:56

cats getting that money as number

15:58

one, number two, number three, oh pick. On

16:01

one hand, you wanted the money as an individual,

16:03

but the people that were bringing you on board

16:06

insisting that you fit into

16:08

a team. What happened

16:10

is. It's sort of changed your mindset

16:12

because we you had cats like yourself

16:15

and others, not literally y'all at the time, but

16:17

figuratively speaking, guys like y'all

16:19

looking at the game from a business perspective.

16:22

Okay, why should I make this sacrifice? What's

16:24

in it for me? This cat getting paid

16:26

but the rest of us ain't and sot.

16:29

At that point, now you start looking

16:31

at the business and being reminded what made

16:33

Magic money, what made Bird money, what

16:35

made Jordan money, ultimately what

16:38

was going to make you all money, and you

16:40

start looking at it in their game really

16:42

really transformed from a business

16:44

mindset, because I think more business

16:47

minded players came into the league

16:49

at that time than ever before around

16:51

our time, and and we are I do

16:53

fit in that category because especially

16:55

after I win the championship and the Spurs, I started looking

16:57

at teams where I fit into the system, right, can

17:00

I can have some longevity there? And and and and the

17:02

game that did transcended that because that

17:04

was a big part of us, and we were free agents. We had to find

17:06

out where we fit. We just couldn't go anywhere

17:09

right now. It's definitely people don't understand

17:11

how important I mean, if we're getting into this area

17:13

that being drafted in a certain

17:15

organization or situation fits, and you had

17:17

that when someone asked a fan asked the question, if

17:20

KG was drafted to the Spurs and him Tim

17:22

Duncan switch spots, who is the greatest power

17:24

forward of all time? And do they have the same success

17:27

with KG and Pop? For me, personally,

17:29

I'm able to look being a

17:31

student of basketball the way that I am,

17:33

I'm able to look at things in

17:36

a different light. Like, for example, KG

17:39

was special, but

17:41

his frame and the style

17:43

of play he preferred, I

17:46

don't think that would have been more successful in San

17:48

Antonio that Tim Duncan was. I don't

17:50

believe that Tim Duncan, to me is

17:52

is the greatest powerful who ever played basketball.

17:56

That's how I view it. That's

17:58

how I view it. Now. Why do I

18:00

say that? Because for me, from a principal

18:03

perspective, the word power

18:05

forward matters. You're a fool,

18:08

even though you can have an outside

18:10

game and step away from the basket like

18:12

KG did, like Chris Bosh ultimately

18:15

did, like Blake Griffith still tries

18:17

to do the fact that the matter is

18:19

is that excuse me? I got news for both

18:21

of y'all, and I challenge anybody to deny

18:23

this is true. Take away, Tim

18:25

Duncan, who's the best powerful that ever lived?

18:28

You know who? I would say, Kevin Michael

18:31

Money in the post ten

18:33

and in Unstoppable

18:36

and under Unstoppable,

18:38

it was an automatic two points.

18:41

What I'm saying to you is that if you are a

18:43

quote unquote powerful it I'm

18:45

not talking about the hybrid game that they've

18:47

asserted into the mix head where they've changed

18:50

the positions, they've renamed it,

18:52

and they want to tell you this is what I want to

18:54

hear. All that when you talk about the position

18:56

point guard, shoot guard, small forward, powerful,

18:58

its center, all the forward spot.

19:01

Tim Duncan hated correct me if I'm

19:03

wrong, Hate it when you put him at the five, hate

19:05

it being listed at the wanted no parts

19:08

of it. He knew what he was and

19:10

when you gave that brother the ball, it didn't

19:12

matter what he was facing the basket or whether

19:14

his back was to the basket. You put

19:16

that brother seventeen feet and end.

19:19

It was a nightmare decision.

19:22

It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. So

19:24

for me when I look at KG, when I look

19:26

at KG, as being an elite talent

19:29

who happened to play power forward that

19:31

had perimeter skills, but he wasn't

19:33

no prototypical, quick, essential power

19:36

forward the way that Tim

19:38

Duncan was, even when KG had

19:41

his back to you, he was still looking

19:43

for the turnaround jump shot. Tim Duncan

19:46

might dunket on you, he might they

19:49

go up, he might cross you,

19:51

he might hook you, he might shoot it turn

19:53

around the bank shot. It was an arsenal

19:57

the likes of which we haven't seen. And

19:59

that's how I look at Tim Duncan, and that's

20:01

why I would say he is the greatest power

20:03

forward that I've ever seen, along with ten rebounds

20:06

and eight blocks.

20:08

Like, let's

20:10

go back to um kind

20:12

of when you started your professional career, tell

20:15

us what, tell us what that was like? Because you

20:17

know, people always, like I said, I kind of

20:19

compared you to an athlete from a standpoint. They see the finished

20:21

product, they see you on ESPN and all the success

20:23

you're having now, but your journey was anything

20:26

but the journey. Well listen, man, people

20:29

where they've written these articles about me. I

20:33

lived off with tune efficient kool aid stop.

20:37

I'm from New York City. I'm from the streets

20:40

of Hollis Queens, New York City, and I was

20:42

working in Archdale, North Carolina

20:44

for the Greensboro News and Record. I started

20:47

off as an editorial assistant doing

20:50

aggon material and school lunch

20:52

man like in in in

20:55

a sports department for a newspaper. All

20:57

of these little things that you see where this shows you a sheet

20:59

with the scores and everything. The computer from

21:01

a digital perspective is things that formulate

21:04

a page and stuff like that. And you gotta type

21:06

all of that stuff in there just to make sure it's

21:08

framed correctly and it fits in the

21:10

paper. If you do it wrong here, wrong there, the copy

21:12

comes off the paper and then you gotta make

21:14

sure it fits all of this stuff. So I had to

21:17

do all of those things right. And that

21:19

was in my daytime when I was getting paid.

21:21

And then I would get off at six and

21:24

drive throughout the Try States,

21:27

you know, the Piedmont Tried area in

21:29

North Carolina, covering high school

21:31

football from seven pm until midnight

21:34

for free. I didn't get paid for

21:36

it. I did it just to accumulate

21:38

clips to build a resume, to

21:40

show that I was really committed to

21:42

being a sports writer. That led to internships

21:45

in Atlanta back at Winston Salem before

21:47

I got the high school sports rang job at

21:49

the New York Daily News. So then when

21:51

you get into the business, Um,

21:54

Isaiah Thomas and I are tight to this very day.

21:56

He forgot why. And one day,

21:58

a few years ago, I told Isaiah,

22:01

I said, you don't you you forgot who you are?

22:03

He said, what you're talking about? I said, you gave me

22:05

my first interview. Isaiah Thomas

22:07

was approaching his retirement year with

22:10

the Detroit Pistons. He was a two time champion.

22:12

I was a high school writer and

22:14

a guy by the name of Tim Donovan who

22:17

does media relations pr for the

22:19

Miami Heat. All of these years, Tim

22:22

was working at the pat Riley doing

22:24

the knicks at the time. I was a high school

22:26

sportswriter. You ain't supposed to have access to

22:28

those what I'm saying, but

22:30

Tim, but Tim knew I wanted to

22:32

be an NBA writer, and Tim

22:35

Donovan was like, come on, I'll help

22:37

you out and gave me access to

22:39

the locker room. You know, he didn't have to do that,

22:42

so he gave me like, he gave me access

22:44

to it, and obviously I knew my place, so I wasn't

22:46

trying to get in the way or whatever. I was just watching,

22:48

study and learning, etcetera, etcetera. And

22:50

one day Isaiah Thomas came in

22:53

as still before he retired with the Pistons,

22:56

and he was doing interview with the

22:58

media, and I said to him, I'm

23:00

an inspiring sports writer. It would really

23:02

help me if I could get an interview with you. He

23:05

said, can you do it now? And sat

23:07

down with me and gave me a twenty five minute

23:09

and uh in, Nate tiny Archibald

23:11

did the same exact thing for me once

23:14

I became a full time high school sports

23:16

writer. So it's like I didn't get

23:18

here by accident, but I didn't get here

23:20

by myself. There was a whole lot of people

23:23

that extended me a help in hand. When I was at

23:25

the Winston Seal of Journal, there was an all

23:27

white staff led by Terry

23:29

Oberley, but I still remember the copy

23:31

of it this very day. Dan Loman, Steve

23:34

Man, Phil rit Shack, and all

23:36

of these guys that I haven't seen in years,

23:38

that I haven't worked with in

23:40

nearly thirty years. But they

23:43

were the guys that would sit me down and say Okay,

23:46

this is a piss poor job. You wrote this sentence

23:48

wrong, you wrote that graph wrong, you missed

23:50

this fact, this fact, that fact. And they

23:52

literally taught me journalism.

23:55

And so as a result, when you go through those

23:57

experiences and you see the

23:59

work was put in in order

24:01

to get people to way they are and how they

24:03

extended to help in hand. Listen, I ain't just

24:06

a black man. I'm a brother, you see what I'm saying.

24:08

So you're not expecting a bunch of

24:10

white cast extand their help with man. But when

24:12

they did that, and as

24:14

like whoa, you know what, you're looking at the world

24:16

a little bit differently because you're like, you're reminded

24:19

that, yeah, we're different, but we're the same.

24:21

And everybody got a heart, and everybody's golfing,

24:23

and everybody's got compassion and stuff like that,

24:26

and they want to extend to help and hand other people. And

24:28

that's what they did for me. And all they asked in

24:30

return is that I didn't

24:33

make make make I made sure not to

24:35

make their effort being vain. When

24:37

you you said you wanted to go for this,

24:39

that's why we helped you go for it.

24:42

So even to this day, nobody's more

24:44

prouder than me than those guys. And you'll see a guy

24:46

like Isaiah Thomas. I get a text from Isaiah

24:48

Thomas every month. It's one of the biggest

24:51

reasons why because he remembered after

24:53

I told him, this is what you helped stop

24:55

me, and you remember what I said. So it's

24:58

like being true to what you do. And again

25:00

it dictates the approach to some degree because

25:02

you know the sacrifices that you made. I

25:04

remember when a cat came, you know, they

25:07

came to me and they wanted me, uh to

25:09

have a job in Seattle. I was gonna

25:11

go unless the New York dality news came.

25:14

They had a job for me and and and Fresnel.

25:17

I was gonna go unless unless the New

25:19

York dedity news came. It was like, no matter

25:22

what, whatever, the sacrifices that are

25:24

that need to be made. I think

25:27

to this very day, I've never been

25:29

married because of that, because I was always

25:31

ready to get up and go. Because

25:34

when you're growing up and you pouring you living off

25:36

tune efficient cooler. From the time you're in college, you

25:38

taste government cheese and bread. When you're younger,

25:41

you sat up there and watch your mother work two jobs

25:43

seven days a week, sixteen hours a day for twenty

25:45

years with one week's vacation, NonStop.

25:47

You go through all of that. It's not that

25:50

love don't matter, it's not that family don't

25:52

matter. It's nothing that. It's that I'm

25:54

not going back to that become numb

25:56

to a lot of stuff, and whatever, whatever sacrifices

26:00

need to be made, I'm going

26:02

to make to get ahead. And that's

26:04

always been my approach. So when I talked

26:06

to professional athletes, particularly

26:09

those of us that are professional athletes

26:11

black folks, I'm sitting there

26:13

like, I know your story. I've

26:16

been through, but there's

26:18

a flip side to it. The same dude

26:20

that's gonna support you because I get

26:22

your story is the same dude that's gonna

26:24

hold you accountable because I know your story.

26:27

So when you sit up there, you're doing stupid

26:29

ship. You see what I'm saying. That's

26:31

compromising everything

26:34

you worked for. Few are gonna

26:36

be harder on you than me because I know

26:38

what you went through to get there, and

26:40

you're just gonna blow it for that.

26:42

That's how I'm looking at it, and that's been

26:44

my approach throughout my entire

26:46

professional career. As I reported, these guns

26:49

so would have been some of the major obstacles,

26:52

so to speak, within this professional

26:55

Well, first of all, you

26:57

you you don't want to use the word racist,

27:00

because it's not that people are

27:02

saying you black. So I'm gonna hold you down.

27:04

And it's that simple. It

27:06

happens. But it's not just that.

27:09

Sometimes it's the kind of

27:11

person they want you to be. Sometimes

27:14

it's what they think they can get out of it. Sometimes

27:17

it's okay, it's not your

27:19

turn. Like when I

27:21

thought about, for example, let me get political with

27:24

y'all for a second in this regard. One

27:27

of the things that I always

27:29

held against the Democratic Party, for

27:31

example, was when Hillary

27:34

Clinton ran against Trump

27:37

this time around, what was my issue?

27:39

Nothing to do with politics to

27:42

me, And it's not hor i'm talking about. I'm

27:44

talking about in general. The mindset

27:46

was, it's hard turn. You see

27:48

what I'm saying. I'm telling you that's the same

27:50

thing that exists in corporate America. There

27:53

nobody is getting ahead without a help

27:55

in hand. There is always someone in

27:57

a position of power that you need to be at

28:00

champion and the supporter of yours. You will

28:02

not ascend on your own volition. Give

28:04

damn how good you all give, damn how talented you are.

28:06

You better know somebody, and it better be somebody in

28:08

a position of influence who's interested

28:10

in helping you. Otherwise it's just not gonna happen. It's

28:13

just not gonna happen. Right, So I

28:15

say all of that to say somewhere

28:17

along the way, not that it's the core

28:19

decision maker, but as somebody

28:21

that's respected and connected enough where if

28:23

they champion you, it's a big

28:26

boost for you. You gotta make sure

28:28

you have that. That's why when I give speeches, I talk

28:30

about it ain't just about having a mentor,

28:32

it's about having a cheer lead as well. You need

28:35

both. You you do need somebody

28:37

that prevents you from falling into that abysses

28:39

and staying there. But you also need somebody

28:41

that's attached to the industry. You're aspired

28:43

to it, you're inspiring to excel in. They're

28:46

connected enough to guide you through

28:48

the mind fields. You need both. And

28:50

so for me, that was always my

28:52

approach. And but again to address

28:55

the obstacles question, the problem

28:57

that you run across sometimes, particularly

29:00

you're younger and talented, they want

29:02

to hold you back because there was always somebody

29:04

else in the line whether to get where you are. They

29:06

might have been older, supposedly paid

29:08

more dues or anything like that. And what I'm

29:10

mindful and cognizant of is what wins.

29:13

If they've been there that long and they

29:16

and they haven't gotten it yet, doesn't that tell

29:18

you? Shouldn't that tell you that maybe

29:21

they ain't the chosen one. You have people

29:23

in positions of power that resists

29:26

that thought. Their mentality is

29:28

to make you wait because they had to wait.

29:30

And sometimes it's appropriate, but

29:32

a lot more often than we realize, it's

29:35

not. And so having those obstacles,

29:37

there was plenty of people He don't need to be a beat

29:40

writing yet, he don't need to be an NBA

29:42

column that yet, he doesn't need. At the time

29:44

that I became the twenty first African American in the

29:46

history of this country to be a general sports

29:48

columnist in March A, two thousand and three,

29:50

they were like, Na, he don't need that yet.

29:53

Well, I said, there's a lot of things you're telling me I

29:55

don't need. But you capitalizing

29:57

all of what I'm provided, do you

29:59

want to win or not? And so you saw

30:01

first to Philadelphia Inquirer, then ESPN

30:04

ultimately and ultimately Fox as well, and

30:07

then ESPN again ultimately you saw

30:09

them capitalizing on it, and it raised

30:11

my level of awareness and consciousness

30:13

because it taught me you

30:16

must have something to offer somebody.

30:19

They can say whatever they want, but at

30:21

the end of the day, when you go to

30:23

these folks, you have to make

30:25

sure it ain't just about you. This

30:27

is what I want, this is what I deserve,

30:30

this is what I need. No, there

30:32

must be something in it for somebody.

30:34

You're asking of something from them, because

30:37

the likelihood of them giving you what you want

30:39

while getting nothing in return is slim

30:41

the nun if it's not beneficial as artificial, did

30:44

you go exactly? And

30:46

and and that's just that's just as

30:48

real as it gets. And so for me when

30:51

those were the obstacles because my lack of

30:53

knowledge at the time, you do tend to

30:55

get caught up. You almost have that athlete's mentality. Meant,

30:57

please put them in front of me. I'm mom dan what

31:00

I'm saying, I don't give a damn who it is. But

31:02

in reality, what I learned, and this is where sports

31:05

really really helped my life, and covering gods like

31:07

yourself help my life immensely.

31:10

You sit up there and you look at certain situations,

31:14

and the athletes themselves teach

31:16

you how envious and jealous you can be.

31:20

Y'all assume, not literally, y'all, but

31:22

you know what I'm saying, athletes, y'all assume

31:24

it's because of the money. Of

31:26

course, that has something to do with it, if you can pay

31:28

your bills and live a lofty lifestyle

31:30

compared to reporters that are covering you, of course,

31:33

but that's not the big thing. The

31:35

big thing is the freedom you appear

31:37

to have. Yes, you have to show up to the

31:39

games, and yes you have to show up the practice,

31:41

but there's so many hours in a day

31:44

that you just get to live your life

31:46

and be you, and you get to do

31:48

other things that transcend the world

31:50

of sports. While so many folks

31:52

in this world are limited the

31:55

pigeonholes and marginalized in

31:57

a fashion that they can't escape from

31:59

because they don't have the juice to do it, the

32:02

fact that y'all have the juice to do it

32:04

is where a real strong level of

32:06

envy comes from. And not envy as in

32:08

jealousy, envy as inish.

32:11

I wish I could do that. But

32:13

if I can't do that, why can't

32:16

they appreciate the fact that

32:18

we can't do it and they can instead

32:21

of snubbing their nose at us. That's

32:23

what a lot of times to see. Reporters

32:25

don't get into these conversations

32:27

with y'all like that because either

32:30

they feel intimidated, they don't feel you hither,

32:32

they don't feel you listen. In my opinion, they

32:34

don't respect y'all enough, And my

32:37

attitude is I've always had respect

32:39

for it. There's that y'all know me for years.

32:41

You know, y'all could come talk to me about anything. Let's

32:43

let's let's roll. Which is why again

32:46

I could be hardcore because I know,

32:48

Okay, this cat got this going on. I

32:51

know I didn't report it. I know the limitations

32:53

to what I'm gonna say. Y'all been around me, y'all know

32:56

the sh I know, and there's plenty of times I'm like

32:59

that, Yo, I don't do that. This

33:01

is the game. I know why you

33:03

funked up last night. That's

33:06

between us. Now. I might let you

33:08

know handle that because

33:10

you look bad and you need I know,

33:12

but I ain't gonna say what, but

33:15

I'm gonna let you know. But

33:18

I don't want I don't

33:20

want you to say it's coming from the

33:22

right place. You gotta quote that. I'm gonna read

33:24

that. I thought was very interesting. For the jay

33:27

Z's, lebron Shacks and

33:29

the others, I don't consider them the American dream.

33:31

I consider me the American dream. They're the

33:33

American fantasy. If you got a one

33:35

in a billion shot of being them, but you can you

33:37

can be Stephen A. Smith elaborate

33:40

on that. It's the truth. Jay

33:43

Z music mogul, billionaire

33:46

with Beyonce as his wife. Yeah, think

33:50

think about uh Shaquille

33:52

O'Neill, one of the greatest players

33:54

to have ever lived, four time champions,

33:56

seven ft three hundred and fifteen

33:58

pounds doing what he does. The Kobe

34:01

is the Lebrons of the world, freaks, ultimate

34:03

freaks of nature. And even if

34:05

you could be them as a talent, could you pull

34:07

off everything they've put They've pulled

34:10

off in terms of transcending their business,

34:12

their world of sports, the world that we

34:14

live and understand something they can

34:16

talk about, communism, fascism

34:18

and all of this other stuff. I am of the belief

34:21

that everybody's a capitalist in

34:23

their own way. Everybody's

34:25

trying to get their shared they're not trying

34:27

to get just their little piece, and

34:29

everybody gets the same. There's something

34:31

inside of you that says, I gotta

34:33

get more to validate who

34:36

I am, and that I'm not typical. I'm

34:38

not normal. I'm a bit atypical.

34:40

I'm not ordered eary, you see what I'm saying. So

34:43

my point is that when you look at those

34:45

guys, understand that

34:49

that's not everyday stuff, that's not every year

34:51

stuff. That's generational stuff

34:53

that we're talking about for the select few.

34:56

Me got left back in the fourth

34:58

grade, first grade a reading level,

35:01

struggle with reading and writing, pounded

35:04

the payment, got my education,

35:06

grew up, broke, starved at times,

35:09

had a poor family, but we stuck together

35:11

for some reason, by the grace of God and the most wonderful

35:14

mom in the world. All those things

35:16

happen. And what did I do. Yeah,

35:18

I'm successful right now. That's fine.

35:21

I'm fifty two. I've been in

35:23

this business since. It

35:25

took me twenty eight years

35:28

to get to the point that I'm at right

35:30

now. I'm living large. Now, I'm I'm

35:34

living large right now, I'm saying,

35:37

but it took twenty eight years, and

35:39

so for me, it's like, understand,

35:42

you're not them, but

35:45

look at my path and tell me what is it

35:47

about my path that you can't accomplish.

35:49

I'm not trying to say I'm not special that I didn't

35:51

accomplish something. I'm saying

35:53

what I accomplished is achievable

35:56

for a vast majority of folks

35:58

in this world. Not necessary really monetarily.

36:00

I've been blessed in that regard as of late.

36:03

But I'm talking about the path that I took

36:06

to the success. Take away the money

36:08

for a second and just look at the path. Who

36:11

can't do what I did if

36:13

you really really think about it. I couldn't

36:15

be Jay Z on my worst day, on my

36:17

best day, lebron Kobe shocked

36:20

people like that. No, but

36:23

reading and writing and knowing

36:25

how to report and busting your

36:27

tail and studying and just grinding

36:30

every day. I got this the

36:32

old fashioned blue collar way,

36:35

and I think a lot of people can achieve that. And I'm

36:37

glad you asked me that question cause I understand that more

36:39

because then a lot of people might not even

36:41

start off with the hand that you was dealt the hand, you

36:44

know, they might be dealt a better hand. So I'm

36:46

glad you asked because I understand the question, because I didn't

36:48

understand it when you first said. I definitely understand what

36:50

I told you that you

36:54

are

37:00

to us, you are the lebron in

37:02

broadcasting. I would say

37:06

thank you to y'all. That's

37:09

not just about me. I'm not saying I had nothing

37:11

to do with it, but it's like, listen,

37:15

I tell Ai this, AI called me

37:17

and and undercover

37:19

wise AI and emotional do and

37:24

he called me once a week and tell me he loved me once

37:26

a week. Same here, and

37:29

we love him back. Man. Man,

37:33

that's my that's my little brother. Were very

37:35

we're very, very close. And that's saying

37:37

a lot. If you know anything about our history and some

37:39

of the things I had to write and say, you

37:41

know, they can't. You know, it's shocking that we are

37:43

as type of people don't realize we've always been

37:45

tight. And a lot of times when we didn't talk

37:48

is because I jumped in this butt because

37:50

of what he was doing, and I didn't report it,

37:52

but it didnt stopped me from cust of the mouth going

37:54

off because well, you know what, you brought this right.

37:56

But what I'm saying is is that I

37:59

never failed to thank him. I

38:02

don't think anybody is more. And I'm not

38:04

trying to sit up there and say he don't deserve,

38:07

you know, the credit or whatever.

38:11

There is no way in my mind I would be in

38:13

sitting here today with the success that

38:15

I've enjoyed if it wasn't for Aliniviously. I

38:17

mean that guy to have to

38:19

be the superstar that he that

38:22

he was and to

38:24

embrace you in a sense way everyone

38:26

doing. I don't give it THEMN what report he talked to, I'll

38:28

give them what interviews he did. I don't

38:31

give it. His availability is unavailable,

38:33

inaccessible. I don't give a DMN. With everyone

38:35

knew stephen

38:38

A and Ai. Everybody

38:41

knew that I wasn't fly on the

38:43

wall. So I was in the c web trade in two

38:45

thousand three from Sacramento

38:47

to out here, and that's when I, uh, you

38:49

know, I met I met you early on and

38:52

saw the connection, and it kind of tripped

38:54

me out because that's not you know, not

38:56

that you guys are the enemy,

38:58

but you know, most guys don't get

39:01

that close to the other side, so to speak, you

39:03

know what I mean. So that's early on when I started

39:06

understanding and kind of following your path and understanding,

39:08

man, you really know what it's

39:10

like to be in our not

39:13

even knowing your backstory, but you put the

39:15

time and to know what it's like to be in our shoes, you

39:17

know. And I think that's why. You know,

39:19

a lot of athletes don't respect

39:23

people that haven't done what we

39:25

do because we don't think they have an appreciation and

39:27

understand how hard it is. But you put

39:29

the time in work, being a former

39:32

hooper, being right there in the mix with

39:34

us to understand. So when your criticism comes

39:36

across, it's from a good

39:38

place and it's warranted. But even what you saying that,

39:40

I still got to give the credit to him

39:43

because he was at the top

39:45

of the heat popularity was and

39:49

this dude had no reason

39:51

to trust anybody, you

39:53

understand, and certainly not me because

39:55

I grew up. You play like, yeah, do

40:00

you know what I'm saying? But but he I

40:02

knew he fits right in my

40:04

alley because what he respected most

40:06

was realness, and he knew I

40:09

wasn't gonna lie to him, and

40:11

so that went a long way and

40:13

and you know the kind of things. And I never get

40:15

in it, and I've never told the story, and I ain't gonna tell

40:17

y'all what he said. But he

40:20

went the hell off on Larry Brown so

40:23

bad one time, told

40:25

me to tearing the tape recorder on and

40:27

went, but Listed told me that he didn't

40:30

say turn it off. He said turn it on and went

40:32

but Listed and he

40:34

said things about Larry Brown that

40:36

would have that would have got him traded at the

40:38

very least, okay, because he couldn't stand

40:41

Larry Brown at first. Right.

40:44

And he came back the next day

40:46

and he says, Stephen, ain't you

40:49

write that story. It's

40:51

gonna kill me. Kill

40:53

me? And right in front of him,

40:56

I turned the tape record off. He

40:58

said done. I go back to the Philadelphi

41:01

Inquirer. I said, kill a story. They're

41:03

like what I said. I said, kill a story.

41:05

It's not going on the paper. I promised him, it's

41:07

not. It's not. There'll be plenty of stories

41:09

to write. We right, just like

41:12

that. Understand now, I'm

41:14

telling you it's the kind of story that could have made my career.

41:16

Anybody else get this story. It's coming

41:18

out it could have made my career.

41:21

It never happened because you

41:24

gotta touch on somebody's humanity. And

41:26

again, I know what kind of man

41:29

I am, which is why I will

41:31

go hard as certain cats. I got a problem

41:33

with a few players in today's game, Make no mistake

41:35

about it, because it's

41:37

the chirping, it's the whisper.

41:39

And if y'all don't know,

41:42

if as long as y'all have known me, I

41:44

know both of y'all will vouch for this. Kobe

41:47

convous for this, d Way avouch to see speak,

41:49

avouch for this, mellow others. There's a lot of people

41:51

that canvous for this. All you got to do

41:53

is come talk to me. You. I

41:55

don't have to agree with you. I don't

41:58

have to you. We could cut each

42:00

other out, you know, it doesn't matter, but

42:02

we can talk as men. What I don't

42:04

have any respectful is

42:07

the chirp all that.

42:09

And when we talk about my history

42:11

my career, you know who two or three of the blazers

42:13

that I was most tight with throughout my reporting

42:16

career Derrick Coleman.

42:19

Oh. Now,

42:24

don't get me wrong, a

42:26

lot of kids. But let you know why,

42:28

because they never

42:30

lied to me. You two never

42:32

lied to me. If you couldn't say something, you didn't say

42:34

something. Or you say, Stephen, I ain't touching that you

42:37

say because you knew I understood. No, Stephen,

42:39

I ain't going there. And that's all I'm talking about.

42:41

It's like, do you know what what

42:43

I would have to deal with if I wrote something

42:46

about Oak without talking took, you

42:48

know, or DC or

42:50

somebody like that. Oh, hell no, I don't want that problem. I

42:52

don't want that problem. I don't know. Oh I need

42:54

to talk to you where you at. Because

42:56

what I'm saying, he's he's a man, and

42:59

it's like you're going deal with him

43:01

on the real MJ another cat, real

43:04

you know, stuff like that. I don't have

43:06

any tolerance or any patience

43:09

for the chirp and it's weak man, you

43:11

know. And so a lot of times you got these cats.

43:13

You got your Twitter account, you got Facebook,

43:16

you got all of this other stuff. Okay, that's fine.

43:18

Well I do have seven million

43:20

social media Um,

43:23

I do have a two hour daily national

43:25

television show. I do have a

43:28

nationally syndicated radio show. Um,

43:30

I am getting paid a little bit. I'm not

43:32

broke. You're gonna get back I mean,

43:34

we really want to go here? We really

43:36

want to go here? Or can we talk

43:40

like men? Just a conversation?

43:42

And because I think one of the things

43:45

that I've proven in my career,

43:47

if I'm wrong, I'll say I'm wrong. And

43:49

oh, by the way, if I say something

43:51

publicly wrong, I'm not gonna apologize

43:54

privately. I'll go right on national

43:56

television. Yo, he got me.

43:58

I was wrong. You see what I'm saying. You

44:01

you don't have to be the way these cats

44:03

are. And I'm not saying all. I'm not saying most, but

44:05

there's a few of them that's just weak

44:08

when it comes to just communicating

44:10

as men. And I don't

44:13

respect that. I don't respect that at

44:15

all because I'm not that way, and

44:17

I don't expect them to be that one time

44:20

because I think that we can intimate because

44:22

they know what what it was being said is real. So

44:24

you can be mad about it, probably, but

44:27

not just that. Here's where I don't have respect.

44:29

You could come to me and it could be real.

44:31

I never forget when a I was mad at me and

44:33

we didn't talk for almost two years and

44:36

cats were sitting up there as Yo, man a, I

44:38

can't wait to see you. Man, he gonna he gonna

44:40

do something to were talking. We're talking

44:42

like that, you can ask this. And

44:44

and I rolled down to Atlanta. I

44:46

made a special trip. I went down

44:49

with Atlanta. I had my boys.

44:51

I rolled up there. I told you about like, look

44:53

I gotta handle this. I need a

44:56

man thing hand. So

44:59

I walked out. I went down there, a

45:01

I came there. He met up with me, and

45:04

he humbled me in a way that

45:07

I've never been humbled in my career because

45:10

he said, you were right, you were wrong. He

45:13

said, it's just that I saw your name in the head

45:15

he said your name on the body line. And

45:17

that hurt me. And I said,

45:19

damn, you know, because I'm sitting

45:21

there, I'm like, I'm doing my job and I'm

45:24

looking out and this ship. I didn't say. You

45:26

know, there's a lot that I couldn't have said, but I didn't

45:28

say it, and I wouldn't say it.

45:30

But it still hurt me because

45:32

it was like, he's

45:35

right. I mean, I had to do my job

45:37

because you know, you're missing in action. I

45:40

got a job to do. But what I'm saying is all he

45:43

was saying. He wasn't saying that I shouldn't

45:45

have written it. He was explaining where

45:47

his hurt came from. In other words, the

45:49

same exact story, word for word verbatim

45:52

could have been written. And if it was somebody

45:54

else's name with the boy, he wouldn't have cared.

45:56

It was that it was me and it. And

45:59

it just reminds to me, Yo, man, our relationship

46:02

is not typical. We got a special

46:04

relationship. You mean a lot to us man, whether whether

46:06

you know it a lot, you mean a lot to us man, and

46:08

so and so for me, I just what I try

46:10

to do is that's why I go out of my way.

46:12

I'm like, look, i'm gonna look

46:15

for you, I'm gonna call you, I'm gonna come talk to

46:17

you. Yo, keep doing this

46:19

and I'm gonna have to do this, stop, fix

46:22

this whatever, whatever. Do this. You know,

46:24

this is your person stuff. You ain't gotta worry about that. I ain't

46:26

got nothing to say about that. But I'm gonna say this about

46:28

you on the court. I'm gonna say this about

46:31

you know you come into practice later, I'm

46:33

gonna do something like that. And so when

46:35

you have that kind of mentality, you

46:37

just wish that people saw you as

46:39

like I'm just looking at that them, like, Yo,

46:42

do you have you seen what I've been

46:44

doing. I don't have to talk to you.

46:47

I get paid to talk about you, not

46:49

to you. I go out

46:51

of my way to travel, go to

46:53

games, and do all of this stuff to talk

46:56

to you. I don't have to do that. There is

46:58

nothing in my contract obligating

47:00

me to talk to y'all at

47:03

all. I can simply watch the

47:05

games and give my opinion. But I travel

47:07

across this country talking to

47:09

you, trying to cultivate a relationship

47:12

with you, Just so you know, Yo,

47:14

man, you got something to say about me,

47:16

I got something to say in response. I'm sitting

47:18

here talking to y'all a day. There's

47:21

no excuse on God's green earth while I should

47:23

go on the air and talk about mad Mons and Stephen

47:25

Jackson without calling you. What possible excuse?

47:29

But possible? I mean, if something happened,

47:32

I need to first y'all. I haven't spoken

47:34

to them. I'm going to speak to

47:36

them, just as as much as I can say.

47:38

Until I speak to them. And there's certain

47:41

players in the league to this very day

47:43

that I like that I don't try. I try not

47:45

to say damn worried about them until I talk to them,

47:47

because some of them scared of living hell, like you're gonna damn,

47:50

I'm gonna head now they're calling

47:52

me. Now that's right. But but but

47:54

again in the right way from the standpoint, they

47:56

pick up the phone and call y'all. Respect that. You

47:58

know you got some cast they're hanging wrongs,

48:00

call you the agents, call yeah, all

48:03

that other stuff, like for example, whether

48:05

it was d Way, it was a c P. Especially

48:07

Kobe and somebody, no, man, I

48:10

see their name. I'm like, damn, I

48:12

don't messed up. What did I going

48:14

on? Real quick? What did I just respecting

48:16

to there we go and I know that, and I know

48:19

that, and that's what I respect. It's too

48:21

many cats that chirp and whisper and

48:24

use hanging wrongs to do it. And

48:26

that's what pisses me. Or you know them, you

48:28

know, I know, I know, you know you and

48:30

they know we know they

48:32

do and they know we know. Because there's no

48:34

excuse for it. It really really is, it really

48:36

is. We're living in a climate today that's

48:38

really touchy. Like you said, we don't like to bring race

48:40

into it, but race plays a big key and just to today's

48:43

society when you when

48:45

you're hot, takes to your point of views, go against

48:48

culture, so to speak. And I've seen it up later

48:50

and Jack and I talked about it off camera. Right,

48:52

Tell me what it's like when they try to question

48:55

your blackness or or what

48:57

you stand for just because you don't agree

49:00

with First

49:03

of all, that pisses me off. That's one

49:05

of the that's one of the few things

49:07

that pisss me off. I usually have alligator

49:10

skin. I know it don't seem that way because I'm

49:12

ranting the raven on the air waves, but I

49:14

sleep well at night. You know what I'm saying. I'm not worried

49:16

about most things people say. I don't give a damn.

49:19

I'm gonna do what I do. But when they

49:21

question my blackness, first of all, is a

49:23

couple of several layers where

49:25

you find that offensive. First of all, do you know who

49:28

I am? Do you know what battles that

49:30

I have fought in corporate America to facilitate

49:32

opportunities for black people? Asked

49:36

ESPN, asked the Philadelphia Quira,

49:38

asked the New York Daily News, ask

49:41

Fox ask young brothers and sisters

49:43

in this industry, the things that I

49:45

have done to pave the way

49:47

and pave the road to them. Those

49:49

folks don't know what they talk about. That's number

49:52

one. Number two, Who the hell

49:54

are you to define blackness? What

49:56

is the definition of blackness? Because

49:58

we gotta be careful with stuff like that, Like,

50:01

you know, you got folks in there. I'm not a Republican,

50:03

but you got folks that sit up there in the second they see a

50:05

black Republican, they say he's a sellout

50:08

or was colin power or sellout serving

50:11

in our military, serving serving

50:13

this country? Was he a sellout? Really?

50:15

Are you sure about that? Did you know that Dr Martin

50:17

Luther King Jr? Had Republican ideals?

50:20

Did you know that? Do you listen to folks

50:22

like Minister Farrakhan and others preaching about

50:24

the same things the actual conservatives preach

50:26

about in terms of handling your own business,

50:29

being an entrepreneur, owning your own

50:31

stuff, not dependent on the government or anybody

50:33

else to do things for you that you could potentially

50:35

do for yourself. Do you know? And

50:38

what is your definition of blackness? And then

50:40

the third element to it that really

50:42

really alarms me is what's your

50:44

incentive for doing that. Now, let's

50:46

sit here. It doesn't We're sitting here. We talked,

50:48

let's be really nobody running from it, this

50:51

whole Kaepernick stuff that we're damn So

50:53

let's analyze this for a second. Colin

50:57

Kaepernick takes a knee. It

50:59

was for police brutality. It was for

51:01

racial discrimination and racial inequality.

51:03

As I said on first take, what black

51:05

man will possibly have a problem with that? Of

51:07

course I didn't have a problem with where

51:10

I took issue was

51:12

your execution after you

51:14

need you took a knee, Because

51:17

now it's about where you're going from here.

51:19

So he Eric

51:22

read and others, you're going after black folks.

51:25

First, it was Malcolm Jenkins, a brother

51:28

plays for the Philadelphia Eagles, won the Super

51:30

Bowl championship with the New Orleans

51:32

Saints. He sits up

51:34

there, he's talking with you, trying to include

51:37

you into the mix because they're negotiating

51:39

with owners to address the issues you

51:41

said you wanted address. You didn't say

51:43

anything about you wanting the job. You didn't

51:46

say that. You said police brutality, racial

51:48

discrimination, okay, racial

51:51

oppression. You wanted those issues

51:53

addressed. What did they do? The

51:55

league itself negotiates

51:58

an eighty nine million dollar

52:00

payout to the players coalition.

52:03

You didn't want to be a part of that. That's why you

52:05

weren't a part of it. Eric Read accused

52:07

him of co opting the movement. We

52:10

understand that. I don't agree

52:12

with it, but we understand it. What Malcolm

52:14

Jenkins is saying is you took

52:16

a knee. Now what are you going

52:19

to do? You said you wanted the issues

52:21

address. We're trying to get the issues address.

52:23

It could be more for billionaires, but

52:25

they how millions. They than what I mean. Else, it's

52:28

better than a zero. Right, you

52:30

have a problem with it, I get it you,

52:33

Eric Read. You approached his brother at

52:35

midfield during the coin tours

52:38

of a game on a Sunday afternoon. You're

52:40

ready to fight this bro. You get ready on the football field

52:42

against him, but instead you want to go street

52:45

on the football field because you don't like

52:47

what he did. Jay Z music

52:50

mogul. Everybody loves jay Z

52:52

mad respect from the hood, talks

52:55

about it, preaches about it, uplifts

52:57

people highest brothers and sisters. Mantra,

53:00

you understand saying been doing great things throughout

53:02

his life while building his own empire.

53:05

He standing he sits before Roger

53:07

Goodell. They announced this deal.

53:10

They announced the deal. His words

53:13

weren't the greatest when he sat up there and said,

53:16

you know what, we're beyond kneeling. But people

53:18

forget that. Ten seconds earlier

53:21

he said, I have no problem with anybody nearly.

53:23

You can do what you want to do. I'm just saying,

53:25

where do we go from here? Why?

53:28

Because he's plotting I got

53:30

thirty one billionaires

53:32

to deal with, thirty two actually,

53:35

okay, thirty two billionaires

53:37

to deal with. I might get an

53:39

ownership steak in this. I

53:42

might be the first brother to

53:44

ever owner NFL team,

53:46

which at that time, I'm going to position

53:49

myself to be for the league to

53:51

be more inclusion every so all of us

53:53

could get so a lot of us can get paid.

53:55

And in the meantime, I'm not gonna

53:57

hoot and holler, but behind the scenes,

53:59

I'm gonna work to get Colin Kaepernick

54:01

this trial right. Eric

54:05

Read comes out calls undespicable.

54:07

Right, Colin Kaepernick says nothing

54:10

right. Ray Lewis Hall

54:13

of Fame linebacker playing for the Baltimore

54:15

Ravens. He's behind the scenes on

54:18

the Steve Bashotti for the Baltimore, Ravens

54:20

a billionaire. It's thinking

54:22

about break This is before Lamar Jackson, mind

54:24

you, he's thinking about bringing him on board.

54:28

Right, Just chill, just chill.

54:31

What happens. Colin

54:33

Kaepernick's lady at the time compares

54:37

Jay ray Lewis and Steve

54:39

Brashotti to the

54:41

characters, and Jane Go played

54:44

by Samuel L. Jackson and Leonardo DiCaprio

54:47

squashes that opportunity. Right now,

54:49

we fast forward to a

54:51

few weeks ago. Why is

54:54

stephen A on the air so piste off? Because

54:59

when I was in the process of generating

55:01

four million dollars in scholarships

55:03

for underprivileged kids at historically

55:05

black colleges and universities where I had

55:07

that event at the University of Delaware State that Magic

55:10

Johnson and Troy Vincent and them showed up too. Right,

55:12

We raised four million dollars in scholarships.

55:15

Four hundred and seventy plus kids got scholarships

55:17

because of that one day event. Right while

55:20

I'm promoting that, I

55:23

go to a radio station to do an interview. I've

55:25

never seen Colin Kaepernick's lady in my

55:27

life. I've never spoken to her

55:29

anything like that. She has

55:31

somebody come out there. They're incredibly respectful

55:34

and classy. They tell me what their dismay

55:37

is over. They felt like I got a few

55:39

things wrong. I firmly disagree with

55:41

that, but that's neither here nor there. I

55:43

sit up there, I look at that in the face,

55:45

and I said, Okay, here's

55:48

my number. This is my number.

55:50

I promise you, from this day forward, I

55:52

will never utter a word about you a Colin

55:55

Kaepernick. You don't put right there on my phone.

55:57

I will read from the damn thing if I have to never

56:00

have to worry about that again. You have my word.

56:03

We're cool. She doesn't stop there. What

56:06

she says is college Kaepernick

56:08

deserves this. He took made this

56:10

sacrifice for us. He deserves

56:12

the opportunity, etcetera, etcetera. Will

56:15

you help us? Fine? So,

56:17

who's behind the scenes. It

56:19

wasn't just Jay Z and the host of other people.

56:22

It was also me and a slew

56:24

of other reporters who will remain nameless,

56:26

that were behind the scenes trying to get

56:28

this guy the workout. Because

56:31

you all were saying, nobody called so

56:34

we were doing this. So yes,

56:36

when the NBA proposed it, it was

56:38

shaking the NFL. I'm sorry, it was kind of

56:40

shaky. We understand that. You know,

56:43

they could have done it better. They could have gave you more notice,

56:45

they could have gave you more time to prepare, They

56:48

could have done a lot of that was That was my major

56:50

gripe with with the transparency factor

56:52

into me, the NFL has proven

56:54

they can't be trusted in a certain in

56:56

several different Here's

56:59

why that argument falls on death hears,

57:02

because you knew that when you wanted the job. Now

57:05

if we all sitting here talking

57:08

amongst ourselves and we're cool, were brothers,

57:10

right, and all of a sudden, I give

57:12

you a reason to not trust me,

57:14

that's entirely different. Not

57:17

only do you not trust them, you suited them.

57:19

Your father grievance against them, You settled.

57:23

You're settled. Who settled? Who fathers

57:25

a grievance against the company settled? And

57:27

that still says I want a job with you. So

57:30

of course you didn't trust them. We understood

57:32

this. So my point is that with all

57:35

of that going on, right, I'm

57:37

sitting there going like this, Okay,

57:39

you said no one called you. I

57:43

happen to know that jay Z and Rock Nation

57:46

was leading the call behind the scenes

57:48

working with the NFL, the owners that

57:51

have the owners didn't want to do it. They literally

57:53

said, bump down. We

57:56

made ten million of revenue already. Okay,

57:59

you know how much money. I'm a couple year o. More than

58:01

a year ago. We got two six million a piece

58:03

for our television deal alone. We

58:05

got the ratings back. Folks are walking

58:08

through the turnstiles. We're good.

58:10

And not only that, we got four

58:13

top league MVP candidates and

58:15

all other black quarterbacks. We

58:17

don't need him. We all

58:19

have to do this. And I

58:21

was told jay Z was like, oh, hell no, yes you

58:24

do. No, I can't do this. We

58:26

ain't going out like that. I need

58:28

you to make sure you

58:30

get his brother opportunity.

58:32

So what do they do? Everybody?

58:37

If you notice, you go back and look at the tape of first take.

58:39

Got my social media guy right there, he's got my evidence.

58:41

You got people there, three four

58:44

teams gonna show walk. I

58:46

was the one that went on the air minimum twenty

58:48

four showing up. How I get that information?

58:52

Why would I say that? Think about that?

58:54

Everybody else said two or three. I went on

58:56

the air and said, does that not

58:58

give you an indication? And I'm kind of plugged into

59:01

this, and so I'm like, look, y'all,

59:03

it's it's being done. And

59:06

then not only that, I got a call three

59:09

days before the workout, after

59:11

being told by various coaches and what have

59:13

you. Usually when a free agent has a workout

59:15

with the team, they don't have more than so

59:19

y'all talking about five days like it's a small window.

59:21

We usually only give them one day

59:24

because if they're ready, they're ready. If they're

59:26

not, they're not. And everybody was talking about all the next

59:28

year, next year. No, they wanted to workout

59:30

because they were gonna give him a job. I was literally

59:32

told, now, whether it's true or not, guys will

59:34

never know. And I don't know you know that, but I'm

59:36

telling you what I was told, quote Colin

59:40

Kaepnick will have to throw the football into

59:42

the stands to not have a job in two weeks.

59:46

Two weeks I went on

59:48

the air and said, so, I

59:51

text his camp and

59:53

said, so, I was completely

59:55

ignored, completely ignored.

59:58

Suddenly, no return text, no white

1:00:00

got anything to say. And I'm saying, Yo,

1:00:02

this is what's going down here about

1:00:04

to get a job in the National Football League. Teams

1:00:07

showing up, So all of a sudden, you hear this

1:00:10

waiver of stuff and or and I'm not decrying

1:00:12

anything. I'm not I'm not questioning

1:00:14

it. What I'm saying is you can't

1:00:17

tell me a condition you faced in

1:00:20

that scenario that you're

1:00:22

surprised by because if you're

1:00:24

already your evident lack of trust for them,

1:00:27

but they also have a lack of trust for you, because

1:00:29

they're fearful that if a

1:00:31

team themselves on their own calls

1:00:33

you up but you don't, they don't believe

1:00:35

you're good enough to make a team,

1:00:38

you're gonna accuse them of something that's gonna

1:00:40

have them by themselves in the league, in

1:00:42

the mix, in the eye the storm, media

1:00:44

wise, so they wanted to use the NFL as

1:00:46

cover. Roger Goodell got Roger

1:00:49

Grell in the NFL agreed to provide

1:00:51

that cover and said they'll call us so

1:00:54

the heat wouldn't be on the individual teams.

1:00:56

And not only did twenty six different

1:00:58

teams show up, Not

1:01:02

not only did they show up, but

1:01:04

you know what else happened. Most

1:01:06

of them were black black

1:01:08

officials in the pipeline

1:01:10

to be pro personnel guys,

1:01:13

gms, etcetera. Etcetera. Because

1:01:15

their whole thing is, like most black

1:01:18

folks, we agree with Colin Cap. We

1:01:20

appreciate the kneeling and

1:01:22

the protesting, and those brothers

1:01:24

were set by the owners and owners like you make

1:01:27

that call, they were coming

1:01:29

to town. So my point is

1:01:31

when you heard me on the air going off,

1:01:34

that's why I was going off. And

1:01:36

I'm explaining all of this, and all

1:01:38

anybody sees this, I don't agree with Cap

1:01:41

or Eric Reid, and he ain't a real brother.

1:01:44

He like you know, Uncle Tom and all of

1:01:46

this other stuff. And I'm like, really, this

1:01:48

is the same dude that's on national television

1:01:51

all the time putting my behind

1:01:53

on the line addressing issues

1:01:55

that we need address. You really really think

1:01:57

it's an accident that whether it was Max

1:01:59

Keller, know Skip Bayliss or anybody before

1:02:01

him, or anybody that you say you think it's an

1:02:04

accident these topics come up on first take.

1:02:06

Let me ask you all the question everybody's

1:02:09

been reading about my contract, everybody's

1:02:11

been reading about I'm being the face of ESPN.

1:02:14

Do you think these issues will

1:02:17

come up or first take as often as they

1:02:19

do if I did not say okay, it

1:02:22

comes up because I allow

1:02:24

it to come. If I said

1:02:26

no, don't touch it, it ain't coming up

1:02:30

works. So I'm

1:02:32

sitting there, like, what do you think is

1:02:34

going on here? Do you think?

1:02:36

You know with Max and his his racially

1:02:39

conscious self and being invited to the ball

1:02:41

of aecues which I appreciate his

1:02:44

here's the deal, here's

1:02:46

the deal. You don't think I know he's

1:02:48

gonna receive that kind of reception. You

1:02:51

think I don't know that, And

1:02:54

I know what time. I know he's going to

1:02:56

receive that kind of reception. I

1:02:58

know that it's best coming from him

1:03:00

in certain situations, rather than

1:03:02

the angry black dude who's disgusted

1:03:05

at the man continuously trying to keep

1:03:07

us down. No here from him.

1:03:10

So I'm like, but you see people

1:03:12

from our community and it's like you don't

1:03:15

see this. I mean, when you when

1:03:17

you think about you know, you think

1:03:19

about Selma, you think about montgomer

1:03:21

Where you think about from an historical perspective,

1:03:24

the things that black folks went through

1:03:26

in order for us to get to this

1:03:28

level, the thing that black folks

1:03:30

going through in order to get to this level.

1:03:33

Tell me when it was a success, when

1:03:35

there wasn't a plan it's

1:03:38

always a plan because if you just

1:03:40

do something happ has it, people are gonna

1:03:42

say it's hap hazard and they're not gonna take it seriously.

1:03:45

How do you not know that? How do you not get that?

1:03:47

So that's where the questioning

1:03:49

of my blackness comes, because I got news

1:03:51

for you. I don't give a damn how much money they want

1:03:53

to report that I'm making in the news. And by the way, they're

1:03:56

wrong about it. Let me tell you something right

1:03:58

now, I make a whole hell of a

1:04:00

lot more money if I was to sell out

1:04:02

that some people try to describe. And

1:04:05

that is a fact. It's

1:04:08

deep and and that's the one thing,

1:04:10

Like I said, I referenced us a few

1:04:12

times. People know the on air personality

1:04:14

of who you are, just like they knew who they thought

1:04:17

Jack and I were, and we were able to, you

1:04:19

know, utilize our platform and kind of speak on it. That's

1:04:21

what I kind of wanted to do today with you, is just to

1:04:23

allow people to see the other side, because

1:04:25

people to get a you know, a show, you

1:04:28

know, a look at the show and think, I know Stephen

1:04:30

AA is all about and and that kind of stuff.

1:04:32

At first use to bosament, I just had to understand that people

1:04:34

don't know that don't know me, it doesn't really

1:04:36

matter what they think about it. But at the same time it's tough

1:04:39

because the people that do know you, understand where

1:04:41

you're come from. Women, they always agree with what

1:04:43

you're saying. But you know, Jack has a great quote.

1:04:45

You know, we can disagree but still have respect for each

1:04:47

other. And I think too often today it's

1:04:50

all the way or nothing. Well, the thing about

1:04:52

it is the operative word there is all like

1:04:54

for example, you see me on TV,

1:04:56

that's me. That's a part of me. It's

1:04:59

not all of me, you know, And who

1:05:01

shows the entire arsenal? We don't have to.

1:05:04

You call what the moment calls. You

1:05:06

show what the moment calls for. You

1:05:08

know, when when look at you sitting here

1:05:10

talking, is that the Matt bonds we still on the

1:05:12

court when now you

1:05:15

no, Now you I'm trying to tell you right now, your far more

1:05:17

moll matter now and off

1:05:20

the court, always in the locker room than you

1:05:22

were on the court. But you see there

1:05:24

see people see you, They see your tats,

1:05:26

they look at that, they listen to they watch you

1:05:28

on the court, and they think that you're ignorant,

1:05:30

and then they go into a locker room and

1:05:32

they are blown away by your level

1:05:35

of intellect. This brother, Steve always

1:05:37

been really real. Is a heart attack?

1:05:39

You couldn't. There was no excuse

1:05:42

to talk about Stephen Jackson

1:05:45

without talking to him, because he was talking. He

1:05:48

would give it to you. It's like, what possible. It's

1:05:50

like I have nothing to say. I mean, what one mine?

1:05:52

Who say to this brother? All I gotta do is go up

1:05:54

to them and ask him if I say, you're Steve Man,

1:05:56

I'm about to say this on the air. You got something? Hell, you

1:05:58

got something to say? And he say, so,

1:06:00

guess what? You take the power away

1:06:03

from me to just editorialize

1:06:05

and just say what I want to say? Nah,

1:06:08

not if I'm a decent, respectable

1:06:10

professional, Because as a decent, respectable

1:06:13

professional, I have an inherent

1:06:15

obligation to make sure

1:06:17

your voice is just as profound about

1:06:19

mine. If not, so when

1:06:22

it comes to you, you see,

1:06:24

if you speak, then I got

1:06:26

nothing to say. And when you see me, listen, man,

1:06:28

I told you before I had a situation

1:06:31

and and and and John wall is a good guy, and

1:06:33

he and I will eventually talk

1:06:35

one day or whatever. But last

1:06:37

year we had this issue. He

1:06:41

was upset because I mentioned a nightclub that

1:06:44

he was at right in d C.

1:06:47

Fellas, I don't do that, tim

1:06:49

Z, didn't. That

1:06:52

man right there, that man right

1:06:54

there came to me and showed me the

1:06:56

video of him at the club,

1:06:59

and so I said it. You can't

1:07:01

be there thirty six hours before

1:07:03

the game, when people already questioned

1:07:05

that you in shape. You can't do it. That's

1:07:07

all I said. That's all I said. And so

1:07:10

all of a sudden, I'm going from city to city

1:07:12

and I'm catching cats, and you

1:07:14

you know, he like you dimed him

1:07:16

out. I didn't know such thing, because if TMZ

1:07:18

hadn't reported it, I'd have never mentioned it. I would

1:07:20

have just said you better be ready, you better play.

1:07:23

I wouldn't have said anything about the club, but sent

1:07:25

you on the clubs being seen on video. You

1:07:28

know, cats out the back. So what

1:07:30

I'm saying is I go to d C to

1:07:33

see him. Brother

1:07:35

in the training room won't come out. I'm

1:07:37

standing at his locker because

1:07:40

they said he had a problem with me. I

1:07:42

flew to d C from New York in a moment's

1:07:44

notice, only forty five minute flight, but damn and I I'm

1:07:46

busy. I still did it. I

1:07:49

flew to d C, stood in front

1:07:51

of the locker. The brother

1:07:53

wouldn't come out. And then a week

1:07:55

later and said, I just wish somebody would

1:07:58

be mad enough to see what they got to see in my

1:08:00

face. I got I

1:08:03

gotta play ticket that I paid for

1:08:06

that shows you know. I did come

1:08:08

to say, you know whatever, this face. But what

1:08:10

I'm saying is there's numerous

1:08:12

cats, including YouTube. I would

1:08:15

never have to do that too, not

1:08:17

in a million years, if nothing

1:08:19

else. Young, Oh, I'm coming out. I'm coming outside,

1:08:22

yo, stephen Na, let me do that the media.

1:08:24

We're gonna have this conversation where we've done.

1:08:28

But you just see all of this stuff. You

1:08:30

got cats like they're looking at you like

1:08:33

they want to do something to you.

1:08:35

I'm a grown man and I'm not about

1:08:38

That's right. I'm fifty two years old. I'm not trying to

1:08:40

get into no fight or nothing

1:08:42

like that. But I

1:08:45

am from Holly's Queens. You

1:08:47

really really think you just gonna do something

1:08:49

to me and nothing's

1:08:52

gonna happen to you, like really,

1:08:54

so you know, I'm again, I'm not talking. I'm not

1:08:56

trying to be violent. That

1:08:58

ain't me. I'm not I'm not saying that.

1:09:02

It's like exactly respect on both ways.

1:09:04

Now we could. You know, I'm not gonna do

1:09:06

that. But you really really think I have no friends.

1:09:09

I just I'm just left out alone. By the way,

1:09:12

I made a lot of money for ESPN.

1:09:14

You just think they're just gonna let something. I

1:09:16

mean, you really really think that when

1:09:19

I walked the streets alone, I really alone,

1:09:21

you know, just like you just listen to people sometimes

1:09:23

like really you really like you're just don't You're

1:09:25

just don'ta do something right? And it's like and

1:09:27

then you just you're saying all of that to say

1:09:30

for what cause? If

1:09:33

you have a problem, you come

1:09:35

to me. If I'm wrong,

1:09:37

I will admit it, I will apologize,

1:09:40

and I will correct the record. If

1:09:42

I'm right. I'm staying in my ground. But even

1:09:45

as I stay in my ground, I still might let

1:09:47

it go and just be like, no, this

1:09:49

ain't worth it. Exactly. I ran up

1:09:51

to um, y'all see me before I had

1:09:53

beef with Big Dog Robinson in the year's

1:09:55

past. Man. I ran up to a son,

1:09:57

his son that go to State was playing Houston.

1:10:00

I saw a son the first thing

1:10:02

I said to his son. I walked up to him and I said,

1:10:04

yo, man, you see me beefing with

1:10:06

your dad. Whatever. Let me tell you two things. Number

1:10:09

One, I was wrong. Number

1:10:12

Two, I said, it will never happen

1:10:14

again. Now I didn't

1:10:16

specify. It wasn't that

1:10:19

I was wrong about what I felt at the

1:10:21

time or anything like that. I

1:10:23

was wrong for allowing it to get to the level

1:10:25

that it was that it got to because

1:10:27

we've both grown men, and you know

1:10:30

what, that's your son and he's

1:10:32

in the league, and I don't want that

1:10:34

young man running around thinking that

1:10:36

you know what, me and your father had beef.

1:10:39

So guess what you gotta be. No, I'm

1:10:41

not that dude, You see what I'm saying. And not only

1:10:44

that, I'm I'm a

1:10:46

man who's a father, and I'm a proud black man.

1:10:48

And I want you not to say that I had any reason to question

1:10:50

it, but I want you to continue to love your father

1:10:53

and to look at him for the good man that he is. Just

1:10:55

because we might have had a beef don't mean

1:10:57

that he's a bad guy. And I told

1:10:59

him, when I see your father, I'm

1:11:01

apologized to him and shake his head because I

1:11:03

don't want that kid running around

1:11:05

trying to elevate himself in this league

1:11:08

and thinking that, you know, you got to worry about

1:11:10

somebody like me and what I'm gonna say,

1:11:12

because of some some nonsensical

1:11:14

beef with your dad, there ain't no beef. Ain't

1:11:17

no beef. Big Dog and I had a disagreement.

1:11:19

But I'm sure he's a good brother. I know a lot of people to

1:11:21

say a good brother. And when I see the man,

1:11:23

I'm apologized to him because I don't want

1:11:26

his son in this league thinking something like

1:11:28

that. That's just the human side. Man. You gotta

1:11:31

you know, you see a lot of these cats, man, and it is

1:11:33

really a damn shame that they've

1:11:35

gotten away from manhood and simply

1:11:37

having a discussion and squashing stuff. It's

1:11:40

really sad that cats different and it's

1:11:42

different. And I put you, I

1:11:44

put you up there with Stewart Scott,

1:11:47

you know, with Michael Wilbon, the guys that have paid

1:11:49

the way for us and man

1:11:51

Matt talked about the show. We wanted, We really wanted

1:11:53

to come on the show. Not that we talk about a lot of stuff. We want

1:11:56

to give you your props to getting your flowers too, because

1:11:58

you paid the way for us and a lot people see the

1:12:00

things you say and automatically disagree, but

1:12:03

they don't understand that

1:12:05

you're not one. You're doing a job, but

1:12:07

this is your real feelings. This is

1:12:09

your real feeling, This is how you feel. And when people

1:12:12

get outside their feelings and understand that this

1:12:14

is coming from a genuine place. You're not just saying

1:12:16

stuff for a check, or you're not just saying stuff just to

1:12:18

piss somebody off. This is your life,

1:12:20

you know what I'm saying. When people understand that, then they can see

1:12:22

a different you. And we've been seeing that. But that's

1:12:25

one reason why we wanted you on the show to give you a flower,

1:12:27

because we understand. I appreciate what I'm

1:12:29

saying. We definite understand, but I definitely man, listen, I

1:12:31

got love for both of y'all. Man, I've loved y'all

1:12:33

for a long time. Y'all good brothers, man, and y'all

1:12:35

real it's hell, And that's what I respect

1:12:38

the most. Man, is if they did not that we've

1:12:40

ever had any issue here. And I had a disagreement

1:12:42

about weed on social man, suposed

1:12:45

you're saying for some reason. I mean, people

1:12:47

are acting like that's gonna be a problem. I was like, what

1:12:50

did he say?

1:12:51

I'm like, I don't understand

1:12:54

what he said that I'm supposed to be offended by

1:12:56

that. And

1:12:58

that's why immediately when I said, y'all are not getting

1:13:00

that, that's my man. We disagree, and damn

1:13:02

it, he was right, he said, I said, he said I was ignorant,

1:13:05

right, I was like speaking staying

1:13:07

off the show. I mean, that's a that's

1:13:10

a hot topic right now. I think as

1:13:12

someone who's used it since I was fourteen,

1:13:14

Jack is you know, just as long it's

1:13:16

something that we really feel navigated us

1:13:19

through our career, um and really

1:13:21

helped us on and off the court, um,

1:13:24

knowing what

1:13:26

the consequences were at times if we got caught.

1:13:28

But it to me it didn't. They

1:13:31

still weren't enough for me to not continue

1:13:33

to use it. And you're taking a very strong stance,

1:13:35

and I understand what your stances. I'll let

1:13:37

you explain about from my understanding, this don't

1:13:39

do if it's gonna suck your money up. So going

1:13:42

on going on with you, but

1:13:44

but but but I'm glad you said. But it's really

1:13:46

that simple it's never been

1:13:50

Once again, I have to go back to

1:13:52

my roots without telling family,

1:13:55

friend business. I'm

1:13:57

from Holly's Queen. Really

1:14:00

really think that I have an issue

1:14:02

with people smoking weed. I mean, I've

1:14:04

known that if been surrounded by it all my

1:14:07

life. It's not an issue. It's

1:14:09

an issue when you let it affect

1:14:12

your money. That is

1:14:14

my issue. I have never getten

1:14:16

o meet personally. I've never

1:14:18

wanted to do it. The reason why is

1:14:21

this my mentality? Is this

1:14:23

anything that inebriates

1:14:26

me in any way potentially empower

1:14:28

somebody else, Which is why I leaned

1:14:30

on your statement when you said about my ignorance

1:14:33

about it, because I'm like, I'm glad you said

1:14:35

that, because I am. I don't pretend

1:14:37

to know. I never pretended to how to?

1:14:39

How to? Hell? Do I know what I'm saying? To use

1:14:41

this? I have been I have covered

1:14:44

an NBA game in the past

1:14:46

where a dude was wobbling back and forth

1:14:48

and literally couldn't stake instructions from Larry

1:14:51

Brown because he was high. And that was

1:14:53

not Alan Iverson. Okay, let me be very

1:14:55

very clear that happened right in front of my face.

1:14:57

But I also saw cats that you know you could.

1:15:00

I let you can see it, you know, over the whole bit, and it

1:15:02

didn't affect them to have Some of them played better

1:15:04

with it, so I got it. My flip

1:15:06

side to it is that there's a reason

1:15:08

I had to bring Snoop Dog on my show because

1:15:11

Snoop Dog had to articulate my

1:15:13

like, I think I have a strong, you

1:15:16

know, command of the English language. I think I speak

1:15:18

fluent English, And I'm like, I don't understand why

1:15:20

to help people can't understand what I'm saying. I am

1:15:22

not saying you shouldn't do

1:15:24

it, because you shouldn't do it. I'm

1:15:26

saying, if you work

1:15:28

in a league where they're telling you it's

1:15:30

going to affect your money, as

1:15:33

hard as you work to get that money,

1:15:36

why give it away for that now?

1:15:38

If you wasn't giving it away from that, I'm

1:15:41

good with it. If you sat up there with like

1:15:43

this, look, man, I

1:15:45

make ten million if I do

1:15:47

this in my course, be fire undred thousand steven there, I

1:15:49

could afford it. I

1:15:51

got nothing to say. I got nothing. It's

1:15:53

like, okay, okay, this makes sense. But

1:15:56

when you are literally

1:15:58

wanting and crying about how the league

1:16:00

should change their policy, as

1:16:03

some players have done while

1:16:05

you in the game, just because you can't get

1:16:07

your way up right. I usually equate,

1:16:10

and I'll bring children into that equation

1:16:12

for for an example, all of us

1:16:14

the fathers here, just imagine for

1:16:16

a second. Well,

1:16:19

Daddy, I need you to change this rule because I

1:16:21

don't like it. It doesn't work for me. Excuse

1:16:24

me, who do you think you are?

1:16:26

You have the right to do what the hell you told?

1:16:29

Period. This is not a democracy.

1:16:32

I don't give a damn what Oprah tells you. It ain't

1:16:34

a democracy, Okay, not in this house.

1:16:36

You're gonna do what you're supposed to do because you are the child

1:16:39

and I am the adult. Well, essentially,

1:16:41

that's what a league is saying to you. In a

1:16:43

roundabout way, not to disrespect you, but

1:16:45

there's a power structure. You volunteered

1:16:48

to play. You wasn't drafted. This is

1:16:50

what you told when you know the rules, when you're signed the contract.

1:16:52

That's what I'm saying, and so if you know the rules,

1:16:55

understand you're going to be held

1:16:57

accountable for it. I'm just of

1:16:59

the mindset, as I said

1:17:02

earlier, I'm not just a black man. I'm

1:17:04

a brother. I don't have anything against anybody,

1:17:07

but I love my brothers man, and my

1:17:09

attitude is, if I see you doing anything

1:17:11

that I think is detrimental to you,

1:17:14

I'm going to let you know. And if

1:17:16

I know you personally, then it's gonna

1:17:18

be personal and meaning I'm going to approach

1:17:21

you personally. If I don't know you, but

1:17:23

I have this platform, then I'm gonna use

1:17:25

the platform to send that message. If you find

1:17:27

yourself in the news, what I will never do is

1:17:29

din you out. I'm never telling you

1:17:32

and course you your money, but if

1:17:34

you allow yourself to get caught in you in the

1:17:36

public, now, I'm gonna speak

1:17:38

on it. If I saw you, it could be anything.

1:17:40

It's weird, it could be anything. If you you've

1:17:42

had other issues that you've had to deal with YouTube,

1:17:45

then Stephen, they come up to your coming, right,

1:17:50

That's right what I said. You see what you do?

1:17:52

What you what are you doing? No? No, no, no,

1:17:54

no no, say this, do this, do that

1:17:57

because we need you back in the league getting

1:17:59

your money. Do you gotta do period?

1:18:02

And I would want you all to do to say for me, my

1:18:05

whole argument in the stance that you know understanding

1:18:08

that we really really just feel now being former

1:18:10

athletes, that we can kind of be the shield for it. And I'm

1:18:12

working with you see a line of cannabis research program.

1:18:14

But but but to me, they're pumping is full

1:18:16

of opioids to get us back on that field. I mean, we're

1:18:19

possessions to them, and we understand it's

1:18:21

it's a process and whatever it is. And you

1:18:23

know, we're high paid a commodity

1:18:25

for them, but they're causing. So they'll

1:18:27

pump you full anything, shoot you full towards all I have you

1:18:30

on all kinds of procription drugs that are masking

1:18:32

one thing, causing a long term effect

1:18:34

on the other hand, But then want to penalize

1:18:37

you for cannabis. You know,

1:18:39

I was in the drug program towards the end of my career and

1:18:41

got close with a couple of guys that were running there and

1:18:44

they told me, you know, over two hundred guys

1:18:46

and you're just for that alone. You know, let

1:18:48

me respond to that.

1:18:51

That's a very smart,

1:18:56

cogent argument, cannot

1:18:59

be disputed. Here's

1:19:01

your problem.

1:19:04

That's their rules, now,

1:19:07

their rules that you agreed to bide

1:19:09

by. So in other

1:19:12

words, if we put if we if we're putting our big

1:19:14

boy pants on, and we address the stuff the way

1:19:16

that it needs to be addressed. You

1:19:19

could make that argument. Hell, take it

1:19:21

all the way up to Capitol here for crime out low. There

1:19:24

are ways to do it, but it's

1:19:26

a slow, grueling process

1:19:29

that nobody wants to go through.

1:19:32

Totally, totally, totally

1:19:34

understand. Here's the

1:19:37

problem. It's still

1:19:39

their rules and it's their

1:19:41

money. You want so at some

1:19:43

point in time, while you're making an argument,

1:19:45

knowing that they're wrong once again,

1:19:47

we could even go and switch the subject

1:19:49

and we could go back to capitic or anybody

1:19:51

else. Sure they're wrong. What

1:19:54

black men, you know, has been in a working

1:19:57

environment where we felt the rules were totally

1:19:59

fair. Just who that is? Because I never met

1:20:01

him. I've never met I have never

1:20:03

met guess what, I don't know white people

1:20:05

who felt all rules were fair to them.

1:20:08

It's the world we live in, and at some point in time,

1:20:10

what has measured is your level of discipline

1:20:13

in the face of adversity, because

1:20:15

that's what separates the men from the boys. For

1:20:17

example, y'all are doing this pockets to intelligent

1:20:20

brothers that are real You know you're gonna cut

1:20:22

through the chase you're gonna get stuff. All

1:20:24

of this stuff is true, But

1:20:27

you didn't put a camera here and here

1:20:30

and here and just sit here. You

1:20:32

gotta crew of people around you,

1:20:34

right, So why are these people working

1:20:36

with you? Because they have faith in you

1:20:39

better, not just to make you better, but they

1:20:41

have faith in you. They have faith

1:20:43

in your ability to perform and that

1:20:46

you're going to exercise the discipline

1:20:48

that it takes to reach new whites. Look,

1:20:51

we can sit up there and talk about first take number

1:20:53

one man. They did some rating.

1:20:55

They said to me Stephen as the number

1:20:57

one talent in sports media.

1:21:00

Right, Fine, here's why

1:21:02

I'm really getting paid. I'm

1:21:04

trustworthy. I'm gonna show

1:21:06

up to work and I'm

1:21:08

not gonna try to let them down. I'm

1:21:11

not gonna be somebody that says, bump

1:21:14

y'all. I got my money. I'll do what I want,

1:21:16

when I want, how I want, Because remember

1:21:18

my dollars a guarantee to you,

1:21:21

a wiggle room out of my stuff other than the mortal's

1:21:23

clothes, like anybody else as Oh, my mom's a guaranteed.

1:21:25

Though that say it if it's

1:21:27

true. You know what I'm saying. My my mother's guaranteed.

1:21:31

You don't get that without trust. They

1:21:35

said, we trust you

1:21:39

to do that. So for me to

1:21:41

do anything that deviates from that,

1:21:43

it's an indictment against me because now

1:21:45

I've shown when I'm not trustworthy,

1:21:48

and that word is gonna spread and circulate

1:21:51

and then people are gonna be real lovely to do business

1:21:53

with me because I'm not trustworthy. It's like,

1:21:55

how do you not see

1:21:58

that? Particularly as

1:22:00

black people knowing what disadvantages

1:22:02

were operating under. And

1:22:05

that's what I'm talking about. You know, y'all

1:22:07

asked me to come here and do an interview with y'all.

1:22:09

Y'all were waiting for me. I won't wait for y'all

1:22:12

because it's y'all show. So guess

1:22:14

who was here waiting. Now, imagine

1:22:16

what it would have been like if I got here before you.

1:22:19

You see what I'm saying, It's like, just

1:22:21

just use your logic and understand.

1:22:24

This is the world that we're living in and when you

1:22:26

talk business with people, it's

1:22:28

not just about your ability. It's

1:22:30

about your ability to be trusted,

1:22:33

and that's what you have to have. And this,

1:22:35

to me, whether it's we or anything

1:22:37

else, is just the latest increment

1:22:40

or the latest example the latest obstacle

1:22:42

that's in your path, testing

1:22:44

whether or not you can be trusted

1:22:47

to handle your business in spite of the

1:22:49

circumstances being less than ideal

1:22:51

for you know, a lot of players don't

1:22:53

understand when they fail drugs

1:22:55

this, or where they get caught in the streets, they

1:22:58

hurt in the cause. All the work Alps doing one.

1:23:00

You know, you said it's a slow grind. It is a slow ground,

1:23:02

but we're getting there. He got David Stern and say we

1:23:04

should be legal. He got, so it's a

1:23:06

slow grind. But when guys failed

1:23:08

drug tests or get caught they are they

1:23:10

don't stand. They're hurting the cause and it's gonna be

1:23:12

longer and longer before is legal. It's all

1:23:15

little things. It's all the things like for example,

1:23:18

you know, usually I'm suited and you

1:23:20

know, y'all can dress like that. Y'all

1:23:22

could do that. I can't all the

1:23:24

time because of the platform

1:23:26

that I have available to me and

1:23:29

the people who are watching on the come up,

1:23:32

y'all have earned the right to sit here

1:23:34

exactly. How y'all you remember this though,

1:23:36

the first time, that's right,

1:23:39

I saw you that I did one show. In the second

1:23:41

time, by saying, you say, put a suit on, put the suit

1:23:43

only what I told him, and I put the suit

1:23:45

on. I had four year career with ESPAN.

1:23:47

Remember that. And by the way, it's not finished. It's

1:23:50

not I'm coming for you. That I'm trying

1:23:52

to make the point that I'm trying to make is that

1:23:54

I didn't tell him to put a suit on because

1:23:56

I like a suit. I said, they

1:23:59

you you in such a way,

1:24:02

they view you in such a way. So when I'm

1:24:04

talking to y'all, I'm saying, look, man,

1:24:06

I got mine, but it ain't no fun being

1:24:08

successful by yourself. You

1:24:10

want to preach me. I mean I talked

1:24:13

to a whole but of cats, trying to reach back and help the

1:24:15

best way I possibly can because I want them to

1:24:17

be successful. And I think that. You know,

1:24:19

when I'm talking to athletes or whatever and I'm

1:24:21

getting on them and you see me going off, if you

1:24:23

notice, I'm looking pissed because I

1:24:25

want you to succeed. I'm not happy

1:24:27

that you struggling. I'm not happy that you feel

1:24:30

it. I'm like, wait a minute, do what you're

1:24:32

supposed to do. Then venture

1:24:34

out. As Denzel once said to me, do

1:24:36

what you have to do so you can do what you

1:24:38

want to do. That's what it's all about. And

1:24:41

that's the and that's the kind of message that I think we

1:24:43

all should be preaching collectively before

1:24:45

we get out of here. We're growing up in Queens,

1:24:48

all the ups and downs Hooper, finding

1:24:51

your way, finding your voice, finding who you are. Did

1:24:53

you ever think he'd be on the brink of being the highest

1:24:55

paid sports personality ever? No,

1:24:58

I never thought that. M It's

1:25:02

an incredible honor. I don't talk

1:25:04

about my money, but I will say I've

1:25:07

been taking care of thoroughly. Did

1:25:09

you get You got the contract pretty much

1:25:11

here. I still got to sign it. But we've agreed.

1:25:13

We've agreed, We've reached a verbal

1:25:16

agreement. Um, that's why you've seen the news.

1:25:18

And I'm incredibly grateful. Um. I know

1:25:20

I worked my butt off, I know I've earned it, but

1:25:22

they still didn't have to give it, you know.

1:25:25

And so you know, for me, You've

1:25:27

got a lot of people who get paid and

1:25:29

to them they've arrived. My

1:25:31

attitude is I've gotten paid. Now

1:25:34

let me show you why I get paid

1:25:36

what I got paid. But in the meantime,

1:25:39

it does elevate some things

1:25:41

in your life. And it's not just your quality

1:25:43

of life, it's the quality

1:25:45

of the impact you're capable of having on people.

1:25:48

Because when you read about me and you hear about

1:25:50

what I'm doing or

1:25:52

what I've achieved, who's

1:25:54

not gonna listen to what I have to say. It still motivates.

1:25:58

It motivates, eats us, It motivates,

1:26:01

it motivates everybody. And so for me, I

1:26:04

look at it, I never saw it coming. Not to disdegree,

1:26:07

I'm incredibly humbled by it. But

1:26:10

in the same breath, I know the journey

1:26:12

that I took to get here, and I know

1:26:14

that I bust my butt to get here. But

1:26:17

it also leaves me humbled because

1:26:19

I'm grateful. I'm grate food to you. I'm grate

1:26:21

food to you. I'm grate food to Ai, I'm grateful to Kobe,

1:26:24

I'm grate food to Shack. I'm great food

1:26:26

to a host of professional athletes

1:26:28

across the world, across all spectrums

1:26:31

of the sports world who always

1:26:34

reached back to help me. And

1:26:36

so for me, it's like it's

1:26:38

it's it's very very special

1:26:41

to me because all those people

1:26:43

called to say you deserve this, all

1:26:45

of them, and so I recognize

1:26:48

that, and what it lets me know is don't

1:26:50

fade, don't go away from what I

1:26:52

did to get myself here.

1:26:54

That's right, that's right, the responsibilities

1:26:57

having lessons, they've elevator.

1:26:59

But it's okay because now,

1:27:02

more than ever before, I'm

1:27:04

in a position where I'm going

1:27:06

to be able to reach back and to give a

1:27:08

help in hand because I got more people listening

1:27:10

to meeting ever before. And so as

1:27:12

a result, it says to me, a right, Steve,

1:27:15

you ain't perfect, You make mistakes like everybody

1:27:17

else, but the grind that you own. Stay

1:27:19

on that grind and always

1:27:21

remember how you got here. And

1:27:24

more importantly than that, helped those

1:27:26

brothers and sisters that want to be helped, you

1:27:28

know, and beyond they just black folks,

1:27:30

his wife, folks, everybody. But I am partial

1:27:33

to my own in regards to

1:27:36

the fact that there are a small

1:27:38

number of us that have

1:27:40

been able to really really do it.

1:27:42

So it's not anti anything. It's not anti

1:27:45

white, it's not anti Asian, Hispanic,

1:27:47

or anything like that. But I'm a black man and

1:27:50

so for me, I'm gonna always always

1:27:52

want to help my own in

1:27:54

the best way that I possibly can,

1:27:57

and I think the greatest way to do it

1:27:59

is by a really highlighting and identifying

1:28:02

the mind fields that can really knock

1:28:04

you off whatever pedestal you're aiming to get

1:28:06

on. If you don't, the greatest

1:28:08

disservice you could do to your own community

1:28:11

is to never tell them about the mind fields. Just

1:28:13

let them go on and do what

1:28:16

they're gonna do. Never say a word.

1:28:18

I don't do that. I'm gonna make sure

1:28:21

that I let cats know y'all come

1:28:23

in, just so you know just

1:28:26

what's going on. You need to mind

1:28:29

what's going on here. And that's what I'm gonna do to y'all.

1:28:31

If I see y'all, y'all doing this podcast

1:28:34

and everything, and this ain't the only thing you're gonna be doing because

1:28:36

y'all got some special here. Telling you this is special

1:28:39

special what y'all got going here, I mean that this is

1:28:41

a big time because y'all, y'all work.

1:28:43

Y'all really really work together, and

1:28:46

it's a beautiful thing to see. But

1:28:49

if I see y'all going in the wrong direction, you'll

1:28:51

hear from me.

1:28:52

I know what

1:28:54

you do, like what you're doing, what's up?

1:28:57

You gotta talk what's going on? We want

1:28:59

to thank you man, uh, like I said Jack

1:29:02

mentioned earlier, but we really do appreciate you. Like I

1:29:04

said, we don't always agree, but we appreciate the path,

1:29:06

the journey. We got to learn a little a lot more today,

1:29:09

um, and we look up and inspire to be you now

1:29:11

and you here. We worked with someone a couple of weeks ago.

1:29:13

They came on setting. It's like I want to be the next stephen

1:29:15

A Smith, you know what I mean. So we just just like

1:29:17

I said, give your flowers right here. Hats

1:29:19

off to you man, keep doing what you're doing and keep

1:29:21

on it down. Man, you Boomer assize

1:29:24

and and Jo told me to

1:29:26

tell you they love your work. Boom a size and he

1:29:28

made it a point. World. I don't say as they made the point

1:29:30

for me to tell you you do great work. And he appreciate

1:29:32

your great guy. He does. He does

1:29:34

a great job. He does a lot of philanthropic

1:29:37

philanthropic things, and he deserves a lot

1:29:39

of credit him and his wonderful family. But I

1:29:41

think that that means a lot to me because

1:29:43

a couple of times it was like I disagree

1:29:46

with Boomer, but I went out of my way to make

1:29:48

sure ladies and gentlemen. I disagree with this,

1:29:50

Yeah, I got him, you know

1:29:52

what I'm saying. And I think that there's more of

1:29:55

that that people need to learn to grasp. That's

1:29:57

what we talked about when you could agree without being disagree.

1:30:00

You know, we don't really disagree about

1:30:02

the whole week. We really, I mean, I

1:30:04

get it. I totally understand particularly you're

1:30:07

right. I was ignorant to it. Okay, you

1:30:09

know, but I have my beliefs, you have yours. But y'all

1:30:12

always be my brother's man and we and we're

1:30:14

good. And guess what iron sharpens

1:30:16

iron? If we all agreed with

1:30:18

everything, how do we ever learn? We

1:30:21

don't elevate that way. You don't elevate that way doesn't

1:30:23

work. That's a rat Man Episode

1:30:25

eight, New York, Steve and

1:30:27

a Man. We can't thank you enough man. Check

1:30:30

us out, Showtime Basketball, YouTube are

1:30:33

all platforms this stream. I

1:30:35

love that all love them. Man, appreciate

1:30:38

you a little guy, Thank you too,

1:31:00

bas