0:00

Hey, it's Latif from Radiolab. Our

0:02

goal with each episode is to

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Listen, wherever you get podcasts. You're

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listening to all of it on WNYC.

0:23

I'm Kushan Avadar. Chances are you've thought

0:25

about your plants recently. I know it's

0:27

a topic in my household. As

0:30

the weather gets warmer, we prepare our

0:32

plants and gardens to thrive. And Chris

0:34

Satch, also known as the Plant Doctor,

0:36

is a regular guest friend of the

0:38

show, and he gives us advice on

0:40

how best to care for our plants depending

0:43

on the season. Chris recently spoke

0:45

to guest host Matt Katz about

0:47

preparing our plants for a healthy

0:50

spring bloom. And we took your

0:52

calls and questions in this segment,

0:54

but today is an encore presentation.

0:56

So even though you'll hear callers

0:58

throughout the conversation, we unfortunately can't

1:01

take your calls live right now. Here's how

1:03

the conversation started. You know that it can

1:05

be hot one day and cold another

1:07

during spring. So Matt asked

1:09

Chris what these temperature fluctuations can

1:11

mean for our plants. They

1:14

actually know a lot more about what's going

1:16

on than we do. And it

1:18

also depends on the plant and it depends on

1:20

whether you're growing indoors or outdoors. For

1:23

your indoor plants, you're going to start to see some

1:25

new growth coming up soon as the days get longer.

1:27

If you aren't seeing some growth

1:29

now, you should be. Then there's

1:32

outdoors. Outdoors, the witch

1:34

hazel, those trees are all in full

1:36

bloom. Usually the first ones to come

1:38

out are witch hazel, skunk cabbage, and

1:41

crocuses. But then you'll have your other

1:43

spring ephemerals and bulbs come up as

1:45

the months go on. But also indoors,

1:48

you're going to want to start

1:50

to plant some of your seedlings

1:53

for transplantation into your gardens later.

1:55

How do these plants know that spring is upon

1:58

us? I mean, it's not like it's been

2:00

weeks of warmer

2:02

weather. What is going on

2:05

inside of them to know this?

2:07

How does that work? Yeah,

2:09

so much like we humans have

2:11

a circadian rhythm, plants also have

2:14

a circadian rhythm. And

2:16

even though the trees outside may look

2:18

like they are not leafy,

2:20

they may look like they're barren, they may look

2:22

quite like they're dead, but they're actually quite alive.

2:24

If you look really closely at

2:26

most of the trees, you'll notice that

2:29

the buds are usually like a nice

2:31

fresh red color, pinkish color, bright brown

2:33

colors. And what they do is they

2:35

still photosense light. They can sense the

2:37

light and they can time the cycles

2:39

of the day to line up to

2:41

when they should come out. Now, they don't

2:44

just take light as a cue. They also

2:46

take the warming temperatures as a cue as

2:48

well. So you'll see some very... And some

2:50

trees do get confused by odd

2:53

weather patterns. So for example, in

2:55

the middle of January, in some sort

2:57

of shaded, maybe north-facing

2:59

courtyards, you might have a cherry blossom

3:01

tree that randomly is making flowers even

3:03

through the dead of winter. That plant

3:06

got the

3:08

wrong sort of cues because in certain

3:10

places it can be more

3:12

mild than others. And with buildings,

3:15

they create microclimates in between the buildings

3:17

and among the buildings and around

3:19

courtyards and things like that. How close you

3:22

are to the water also affects how mild

3:24

the temperature will be. And

3:26

speaking of bodies of water, the

3:28

Hudson River and the Atlantic Ocean and

3:30

the Long Island Sound actually modulate our

3:33

climate such that New York City is

3:35

in a much warmer planting zone than

3:37

is upstate or even as you start

3:39

to get north of Westchester County, they're

3:41

in an entirely different planting zone. We're

3:44

like a warm seven to

3:46

a cold eight zone eight, whereas the

3:48

rest of upstate is seven to six,

3:50

all the way up to five if

3:52

you go north enough. Got it. What

3:54

about climate change and how plants here

3:56

might be feeling that or noticing that

3:58

or adjusting to it? Oh, yeah,

4:00

they're definitely noticing it and climate change

4:02

is happening at quite a fast rate.

4:05

It's it's we're still observing How

4:07

they're doing things and i've noticed from

4:09

my own personal observations. I love watching

4:11

the cherry blossom trees I've seen

4:13

in the past five ten years them, you

4:15

know Popping their buds too

4:18

early for lack of a better term Uh

4:20

coming out and then we get sort of like a

4:23

fake out spring Here in new york

4:25

and then it get we get like some kind of random

4:27

cold snap at the end of marcher at the end of

4:29

april and uh when they get

4:31

wiped out like that their entire crop or

4:33

most of their crop gets wiped out and

4:36

That doesn't just have effect on the plants

4:38

that also has effect on upstate farms If

4:40

we get a late season frost or a

4:43

surprise frost because the climate is unstable because

4:45

it's changing because the climate doesn't know what to

4:47

do Uh, that does affect

4:49

food prices and that does affect apple

4:51

yields apple picking All the

4:53

other things that we like to do. Um when

4:55

we all go upstate Let's

4:57

go to the phone lines got a bunch of

4:59

questions already coming in uh adam in pelham I

5:01

think wants to ask about daisies. Hi there. Adam.

5:04

Hi, i'm uh, adam. I'm from pelham new york and I

5:07

got a quick question I have

5:09

some daisies uh, uh seeds And

5:12

uh some plastic containers, you know, those little ones are

5:14

about an inch and a half in diameter And

5:16

I wanted to fill them with uh soil and then put

5:19

the seeds in them and germinate them So what's the best

5:21

way for me to do that? I

5:24

mean daisies are pretty easy. Um, you can

5:26

you can start them now ish I think

5:28

this is sort of the beginning end of

5:30

when you would start your seeds indoors Uh

5:32

daisies, you can start a little later You might want

5:35

to wait a week or two on them and then

5:37

you could sew them I guess I think what you're

5:39

describing is a is a seed starting tray like, you

5:41

know big like black plastic tray with the uh

5:44

compartments in them and you just fill

5:46

the compartments with just regular potting soil

5:49

and uh, depending on the type of daisy Uh,

5:52

you you'll plant them at different depths.

5:54

Most of them actually don't get planted

5:56

very deeply Maybe it's a

5:58

quarter inch. Just follow the instructions instructions on

6:00

the seed packet and make sure you pack the

6:03

soil tight. I know one way

6:05

that folks who are starting seeds might

6:07

go wrong is, you know, when you get the bag

6:09

of soil and you first plant things, it's very loose.

6:11

You want to compact it and you want to make

6:14

sure that you water it right after you plant it

6:16

with warm water to help with germination.

6:19

So you want to make sure also that

6:21

the seed tray is in a warm area,

6:24

that it's not getting a cold draft. I

6:26

know a lot of people use what's called heat

6:29

mats, plant heat mats. Basically

6:31

kind of like an iguana heat mat. It's like

6:33

a black rubber mat with

6:35

electric blinds going through it and it heats

6:37

up through the electricity and it keeps the

6:39

seeds warm and you'll set that by your

6:42

window so that way they get as much

6:44

direct light as possible. And some people try

6:46

to start seeds under lights. That's

6:48

fine, too. I know that certain

6:51

plants like chamomile specifically, I

6:53

can't think of the other ones on top of my head, but

6:56

there's a few plants you got to watch out for that

6:58

need some kind of light in order

7:00

to germinate. So seeds like chamomile seeds are

7:03

very very thin, like poppy

7:05

seeds as well, very very tiny

7:07

seeds. They generally, you don't plant

7:09

them at all. You actually just scatter them across

7:11

the top of the soil and they take the

7:13

light as a signal

7:15

to germinate and then and that's how they germinate.

7:17

And it's okay if they splash around a little

7:19

bit, you know, that's why they have so many

7:21

of those tiny seeds because the plant knows that

7:23

not every seed is going to make it. Right,

7:27

right. Thanks for calling out. Chris in

7:29

general is now the right time to

7:31

start seeding? I would first start with

7:33

longer term plants or plants

7:36

that take a while to get established

7:38

like your tomatoes, your bell peppers, if

7:41

you're trying to grow watermelon, cantaloupes, cucumbers,

7:43

things like that. I

7:45

would start maybe the tomatoes and peppers

7:47

and eggplants first, then maybe half

7:49

a week to a week later, then you can start your

7:53

your watermelons and cucumbers and things like that and

7:55

then you can move on to, you know, your

7:57

herbs. Your herbs, you kind of want to start

7:59

more And of course, you want

8:01

to be careful because not every plant

8:03

is transplantable. There are some plants that

8:06

you may want to start them indoors, but

8:08

it really is just best to either directly

8:10

sow them in the ground outside or

8:13

to just, you know, plant a

8:15

piece of them in the fall

8:17

of the previous year. These are

8:19

like root vegetables or bulbs

8:21

or things like that, like garlic you want to plant, last

8:24

autumn, tulips you want to plant last autumn.

8:26

You can still plant them in the springtime.

8:28

They just won't be as robust as if

8:30

you had planted them in the autumn. But now is

8:32

a great time. I think you just answered a question

8:35

that another caller had, Erin, on the Upper West Side.

8:37

She was wondering if it's too late to plant bulbs

8:40

and if she can plant bulbs that are two years

8:42

old right now. If

8:44

the bulbs are starting to poke some green out,

8:47

if like, you know how when you buy garlic

8:49

at the store or you buy an onion at

8:51

the store and if you let the onion hang

8:53

around for too long, you start to see it

8:55

turning green and wanting to grow? If

8:57

it's already doing that, then just plant it

8:59

outside. That plant is already ready to

9:02

be planted outside. And again, it'll take

9:04

a hit from, you know, not being

9:06

able to have been vernalized, but because

9:08

it's already sprouted, it's been,

9:10

you know, vernalized so it's ready to pop up in

9:13

the spring. We got a

9:15

question via text message, help. I

9:17

left my gardenia outside. It's brown

9:19

but alive. I

9:22

don't know what brown but alive means. Brown

9:24

usually means dead. You

9:28

are the plant doctor, so yes, you should

9:30

know that. There can be some cold damage

9:32

that can appear brown. I know that for

9:35

most plants across the board, if

9:37

it's got some frostbite on it, the leaves

9:39

will go limp. They'll turn

9:41

this water-colory purpley gray brown as if

9:43

you mixed purple, gray, and brown all

9:45

together and made it watercolor, that's what

9:47

the leaves will start to look like.

9:50

And then there'll be limp and you just cut

9:52

them off. There's no way that the plant can recover

9:54

that. The only way that the plant can recover is

9:57

if you make it conditions nice enough so

9:59

that the plant can grow new leaves.

10:01

And depending on the severity, sometimes you can

10:03

revive it. If there's some green somewhere else

10:06

around the plant, or if there's a bud

10:08

somewhere else around the plant that's green or

10:10

has the colors of life in it, then

10:13

it's possible to bring it back. But gardenias,

10:15

if it's like the houseplant gardenia type that

10:18

you get at grocery stores

10:20

and hardware stores, that one's not as

10:22

frost tolerant. So I would keep it

10:24

indoors. And if it doesn't do anything

10:26

for a month in a sunny window,

10:28

then it's dead dead. All

10:30

right, good to know. You

10:34

said cut it off. Talk to me about

10:36

pruning for a minute. How can you tell

10:38

when something needs to be pruned in order

10:41

to revive a plant or just to keep it healthy?

10:44

Yeah, I actually had this conversation with

10:46

a client for NYC

10:48

Plant Health this morning. We were

10:51

talking about repotting versus pruning, because

10:53

when you have indoor plants and they start to

10:55

get too big, which is, by the way, a

10:58

great problem to have if your plants are getting

11:00

too big, you

11:03

have the option of either repotting the plant so that

11:05

it can continue to grow larger, or

11:07

you have the option of pruning it back so that you

11:09

don't have to repot it. So when

11:11

you're looking to prune a plant, just make sure

11:13

that, number one, it's grown larger since

11:15

you've gotten it. Number two,

11:18

it's not growing in some kind of weird

11:20

or awkward way. A lot of times we

11:22

use pruning to tame plants or to try

11:24

to make them grow in a way that

11:26

we want. The very,

11:28

very OCD version of that is the art

11:30

of bonsai, where you really want to control

11:33

the way that the plant is growing, and

11:35

you do that by pruning

11:37

them. But only certain plants can

11:40

have the stuff to be bonsai.

11:42

Only certain plants can be bonsai.

11:46

I was just wondering, when you do the repotting,

11:49

how do you make sure it's going smoothly and

11:51

it doesn't traumatize the plants?

11:54

Good question. When you

11:56

repot, I like to let the plant go a little

11:59

dry before I go. repot because if you're

12:01

working with wet plants,

12:03

they're really messy, especially indoors. So I

12:05

like to let the plant go a little dry. It makes it

12:07

easier to pull out of the previous pot. Some

12:10

plants, if they haven't been repotted in over a

12:13

couple of years, it's probably time to

12:15

repot those plants. So you

12:17

definitely want to. The general

12:20

rule is whenever the media goes bad

12:22

and you can kind of tell by

12:24

the color of the medium, you know,

12:26

when you first plant something, it's like

12:28

a blackish brown. And then

12:30

it starts to decompose over time because it's

12:32

mostly most pine soils made out of pink.

12:35

And it decomposes over time. And when it

12:37

starts to become finer and

12:40

muddier and blacker and it starts

12:42

to have like a weird smell, it's definitely

12:45

time to repot. In fact, that might be overtime

12:47

to repot. But as a general rule, when

12:49

you first get a plant from the store,

12:52

the idea is that the store sells it overgrown.

12:55

So the idea is that within the first

12:57

two weeks of you getting that plant, you're

12:59

supposed to repot it. And then after that,

13:02

it's maybe once a year, once every

13:04

two years, or if you want to keep it in the

13:06

same soil, keep it going until the

13:08

soil starts to get sour. We're

13:10

going to go to one more caller before I let you go.

13:14

Plant doctor Dee from Yonkers. Hi

13:16

there, Dee. Hi. I'm trying

13:18

to find out about the step after we planted the seed. So

13:21

we get the seedlings and you see all those beautiful seedlings

13:24

and those catalogs that look nice and bushy. And

13:27

then, of course, yours start coming up leggy and

13:30

then you start to get the seedlings and the

13:33

plants start to get more light from it, plus the transitions

13:36

to outside. What are the

13:38

tips that you can give us to

13:40

have the most robust seedlings that we can so that we can

13:43

have the best crops that we

13:45

can get? So that's a

13:47

really good question. And this answer is both long

13:50

and short, so bear with me. First,

13:52

the seedlings being leggy. Legginess,

13:54

or when a plant is stretching itself too

13:57

long, with both seedlings and indoor plants. plants

14:00

in general is they just do not

14:02

understand how much light that plants need.

14:05

Another way that I describe it is that

14:07

plants are living solar panels. There's no such

14:10

thing as a low light plant. I know

14:12

they're often sold like that. It doesn't exist.

14:14

It just doesn't make sense because a plant

14:17

is a solar panel. There's no calories in water.

14:19

There's no calories in soil. There's no

14:21

calories in air. So the only way that it can

14:23

get its calories in order to grow leaves and do

14:25

things is through the sun. So in

14:27

order to make your seedlings as bushy as possible,

14:30

you want to blast them with as much

14:32

direct sun as you possibly can. So that's

14:34

either a south-facing window that's unobstructed or

14:37

what I like to do is pick

14:39

a south-facing window that's unobstructed and add

14:41

plant lights to it. Really, really blast

14:43

those seedlings with plant lights. And if

14:45

you're unfortunate enough to not have a

14:47

wonderful south-facing window where you can blast

14:49

them with light, then you can get

14:52

any of the grow lights that they

14:54

have. Especially

14:56

for a bulb, and I'm not going to

14:58

get too deeply into this, but you want

15:00

either some kind of really good photography bulb

15:02

that mimics natural sunlight. Those

15:04

are really, really good. There's

15:07

also some of the grow plates from some of

15:09

the cannabis growers that are on the market right

15:11

now that are fantastic. And they have grow tents

15:13

as well that double for cannabis

15:15

as well as starting vegetables. So you might want

15:17

to check into that. Now the second part of

15:19

your question is what

15:21

do I do with the seedlings once they

15:23

start? Keep them watered. Just

15:26

note that in their tiny little

15:29

seed starter cells, they will be

15:31

cramped after a while. They'll

15:33

eventually start to need more water

15:35

more frequently and they'll start to

15:37

get taller. There comes a

15:39

point where maybe they're about four or five

15:42

inches tall, especially if they're in those little

15:44

one-inch, one-and-a-half-inch cubes or two-inch cubes, that they'll

15:46

start to...you'll almost need to water them every

15:48

single day. That's about the

15:50

time when you should be transplanting them. And

15:52

if it's still too cold outside, you'll just

15:54

have to transplant them into larger pots and

15:57

wait until the weather becomes more favorable. state

16:00

for the ones that are not poultry.

16:02

But if the plants you're growing like

16:04

maybe it's kale, maybe spinach or something,

16:07

spinach is better as directly sown seeds

16:09

outside anyway. But if you do decide

16:11

to transplant it, you

16:13

can get away with about a week or

16:16

two before the frost date. As long as

16:18

it's not a hard frost like in the

16:20

20s, it can tolerate a light frost. That

16:22

was plant doctor Chris Satch speaking with all

16:24

of it guest host Matt Katz about how

16:26

best to prepare our gardens for the springtime.

16:29

And that's all of it

16:31

for today. All of it

16:33

is produced by Andrea Duncan-Mau,

16:35

Kate Hines, Jordan Lough, Simon

16:37

Close, Zach Goderer-Cohen, Elma Leek

16:39

Anderson, Luke Green and Aki

16:41

Komargo. Megan Ryan is

16:43

the head of live radio. Our engineers

16:45

are Julianna Fonda and Jason Isaac. Luscious

16:48

Jackson does our music. I'm

16:50

Kushan Avadar. I appreciate you listening. I

16:52

appreciate you and I will meet you

16:54

back here next time. At

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