0:00

Tonight on

0:02

All In. In a true sense, I'm being

0:05

indicted for you. Thanks a lot,

0:07

everybody. An indicted ex-president

0:09

scared of an orange jumpsuit urges

0:11

his foot soldiers to end his criminal prosecution

0:14

or end a functioning government.

0:16

My plan, and I've had it all along,

0:19

is to defund Jack Smith's special counsel.

0:22

Tonight, the explicit reason the MAGA

0:24

caucus is holding the government hostage.

0:27

This is a whole new concept of individuals that just

0:29

want to burn the whole place down. Then,

0:32

weeks away from the first televised

0:34

coup trial, a proposed witness

0:36

list that includes the RNC chairwoman.

0:39

Plus, incredible new reporting on the

0:41

Democratic surge at the polls that

0:43

may

0:43

be fueled by Republican never-Trumpers.

0:46

And, you will not believe the new

0:49

right-wing attack on woke electric

0:51

cars. You all right? Yeah. Oh,

0:56

my God. But All

0:58

In starts right now.

1:04

Good evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes. Well,

1:06

we are once again hurtling towards a shutdown

1:08

of the entire federal government. This time,

1:11

it may very well happen

1:12

on the orders of Donald Trump as

1:14

a kind of desperate gambit to stay

1:17

out of prison. This comes

1:19

as the government is set to run out of money next

1:21

Saturday. If Republican House Speaker

1:23

Kevin McCarthy cannot contain his

1:26

MAGA extremist members, the government will

1:28

shut down on October 1st.

1:30

Right now, as you may have heard, it's not looking

1:32

so good. Today, for the

1:34

third time in a week, McCarthy

1:36

failed to get the votes to even consider

1:39

funding the Defense Department. He's

1:41

now canceled votes for tomorrow and this weekend,

1:44

while telling his members to be on call.

1:47

Even though he vowed to find a solution and

1:49

to work through the weekend, but the members

1:51

weren't that interested in that.

1:54

Republicans are failing at basic governing

1:56

in every possible way. And to explain,

1:58

understand, let me just get into it. a little

2:00

bit of how House rules work. Before

2:03

House leadership can bring an actual bill to the

2:05

floor to debate it and then pass it, right?

2:07

Like let's fund the Department

2:09

of Defense. They have to approve

2:12

something before that's called the rule. Now

2:14

the rule is produced by the Rules Committee, which

2:17

is arguably the most important committee in Congress.

2:19

And the way it usually works, I mean, this is sort of standard

2:22

procedure. The party in power, the majority, always

2:24

gets the rule they want and then votes for the rule

2:26

because it's what allows the Speaker to move a

2:29

bill forward.

2:30

In nearly three decades,

2:31

okay, listen to this, 28

2:33

years, the House Majority

2:36

Conference had not failed

2:38

to adopt a rule because

2:40

it helps their party. Meaning in 28

2:42

years, they always

2:44

win the vote on the rule. It's their

2:47

rule. They control the House. It's basically them

2:49

voting to say like, we want to do what we want to do. And

2:51

we've got a majority of votes.

2:53

It allows them to bring bills to the floor and pass them.

2:55

Until now, in one week,

2:58

Republicans have now failed to

3:00

adopt a rule three

3:02

times. So 28

3:04

years doesn't happen this week, three

3:07

times. And that's after MAGA

3:09

extremists block the defense funding bill

3:11

from moving forward. Now on Tuesday,

3:13

Republican leaders tried to bring up the rule

3:16

to vote on the Defense Appropriations Bill and

3:19

it failed. Republicans

3:21

couldn't even agree to begin debate on funding

3:23

the Defense Department. This was not

3:25

even a vote to fund the entire government. That's not

3:27

the issue, right? Not

3:31

the continuing short term resolution. This

3:33

was a precursor to that vote. After

3:36

that failed vote, well, there was

3:39

lots of internal blood living among

3:41

the caucus. It's

3:43

an unmitigated disaster right

3:45

now on the majority

3:47

side. This is stupidity. The

3:50

idea that we're going to shut the government down

3:53

when we don't control the Senate, we don't control the

3:55

White House. These people can't define a win.

3:58

They don't know how to take yes. for

4:00

an answer. It's a

4:02

clown show. You keep running lunatics. You're

4:04

going to be in this position. I'm disappointed.

4:07

I am pissed off. The shunning of the government

4:10

down there. Everyone loses. That's mutually

4:12

assured disruption. We're dysfunctional. It's

4:14

just that simple. That simple. We

4:16

are so dysfunctional. Again,

4:19

that wasn't today. Okay. That was

4:21

on Tuesday. All that sound you saw, the

4:23

embarrassment on Tuesday. And after that, Kevin McCarthy's

4:26

leadership team, they huddled for over two hours

4:28

in the basement of the Capitol. It's yesterday

4:30

evening for what they call a family meeting. And

4:33

they were assigned. It's coming out. Progress

4:35

was made.

4:37

All of you folks are saying you're finding

4:40

a deal on how to fund the government. I

4:43

feel like we are. The members are already

4:45

in meeting. I think we're making some progress. We made

4:47

some progress last night.

4:49

Okay, Kev. Do you say

4:51

so? Huddled the team together.

4:54

Had a family meeting and understanding. And so today,

4:56

Speaker Kevin McCarthy tried again. And

4:59

it crashed and burned again. Remember,

5:03

McCarthy cannot afford to lose more than four

5:05

votes in the House to move any legislation

5:07

because his majority is so slim because Republicans

5:10

underperformed so badly in the midterms. And right now,

5:12

the MAGA caucus is holding McCarthy and

5:15

the US government and all of us hostage.

5:18

After another failed vote on a rule,

5:21

the Republican Speaker put it pretty

5:23

well. He said this is a party that wants to

5:25

burn the whole place down.

5:28

It's frustrating the sense that I

5:31

don't understand why anybody knows against bringing

5:33

the idea of having the debate. And then

5:35

you've got all the amendments that you don't like. This is

5:38

a whole new concept of individualism that just doesn't burn

5:40

the whole place down. It doesn't yet.

5:43

And while even the Republican Speaker knows that members

5:46

of his party just want to burn the place down, some

5:48

Republicans would like you to think a government shutdown

5:50

has nothing to do with that. Yesterday,

5:53

Republican Congressman and senior appropriator

5:55

Mike Simpson of Idaho said, quote,

5:57

we always get the blame. Name one time

5:59

that we. shut the government down and we haven't gotten the blame.

6:02

Well, Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries reminded

6:05

the world today when this happened

6:07

last. 2018 into 19.

6:11

Same thing. They shut the government down

6:13

for 35 days. By

6:15

the way, when the government shutdown began, Donald

6:18

Trump was president. Republicans

6:21

controlled the House and the Senate in

6:23

December of 2018, they shut themselves

6:26

down. That's

6:28

how much it's in their DNA. I'd

6:30

forgotten that. I'd forgotten the lame duck shutdown

6:33

was a unified party

6:35

self shutdown. So this

6:37

is not new. It is entirely the fault

6:39

of the Republican Party, clear as day, particularly

6:42

a small group of House Republicans who

6:44

are taking their order from the man

6:46

who controls the Republican Party.

6:49

He's the guy in charge, the

6:51

Republican front-runner, the guy leading

6:53

in the polls and now criminal defendant Donald

6:56

Trump. And guess what? He

6:58

had some thoughts about this shutdown. The

7:00

ex-president posted this last night, quote, a

7:02

very important deadline is approaching at the end of the month.

7:05

Republicans in Congress can and must

7:07

defund all aspects

7:09

of crooked Joe Biden's weaponized government.

7:12

This is also the last chance to defund these political

7:14

prosecutions against me, use the

7:16

power of the first and defend the country.

7:20

And his foot soldiers in Congress have heeded that

7:22

call. Far right MAGA Congressman Matt Gates

7:24

of Florida wrote last night, quote, Trump opposes

7:27

the continuing resolution. Hold the line.

7:30

Two of Trump's most Arctic crusaders have said

7:32

they will not fund the government if

7:34

a cent goes to special counsel

7:36

Jack Smith. The Donald

7:39

CR is a permission slip for Jack

7:41

Smith to continue his election interference

7:44

as they are trying to gag the

7:46

president, the former president of the United States and the leading

7:48

contender for the Republican nomination. I'm not

7:51

going to continue to fund the Biden regime's

7:53

weaponized government.

7:54

So there should be no funding for Jack

7:56

Smith's special counsel.

7:59

appropriations process to try to defund the special

8:02

counsel, basically spring Donald

8:04

Trump from his two upcoming federal criminal trials.

8:07

Now, just to be clear on this, because

8:10

I think they know this, although God,

8:12

who knows, a government shutdown

8:14

would not impact the special counsel's investigation,

8:17

but that doesn't seem to matter to anyone.

8:20

I've said this before, the ex-president will

8:22

do anything to stay out of prison,

8:25

because that's what's in front of him. He's an old man.

8:27

He's 77. He's looking at years

8:29

and years of prison. He's looking at the possibility

8:32

of dying in a cell. He's

8:35

literally running for his freedom. And

8:37

again, when I say dying in a cell, it's like, well, that's never going

8:40

to happen. It's easy to feel like it is going to happen.

8:42

Like, really?

8:44

But according to new reporting, that's not the way Trump

8:46

sees it.

8:48

Rolling Stone reports that quote, in the past

8:50

several months, Trump has had a burning question for

8:52

some of his confidants and attorneys. Would

8:54

the authorities make him wear one of those jumpsuits

8:57

in prison?

9:00

So Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene, they're a whole

9:02

little crew. They're teaming up with the guy

9:04

in charge, Donald Trump, to keep him out

9:06

of a prison jumpsuit. And

9:08

they don't matter. They don't care about the cost. They

9:11

can do it at the cost of completely shutting down the

9:13

entire American federal government, causing

9:15

incredible pain and damage. And

9:17

again, that is the North Star agenda.

9:21

Keeping Donald Trump out of prison of

9:23

one of the two major political parties in this

9:25

country on display for all to

9:27

see. David Jolly

9:29

is a former Republican Congressman of Florida. Jen

9:32

Psaki served as White House press secretary under

9:34

President Biden. She's a host of Inside

9:36

with Jen Psaki on MSNBC. Starting

9:39

next week, you can watch her every Monday

9:41

night at 8 p.m. right here. Let me

9:44

start with you, David. I was a

9:46

little, I cannot help but feel a little

9:48

schadenfreude and a little bemused when

9:50

Kevin McCarthy complains about

9:52

members of his caucus. It's a little like Jenna Ellis,

9:54

the Trump lawyer who was saying the other day that he decided

9:57

that Trump is a narcissist. It's like,

9:59

interesting.

9:59

I think you're right. Like him

10:02

coming out and saying, yeah, they just want to burn

10:04

things down. They want to do anything. Like,

10:06

yeah, dude, you're dancing with who brung you. Yeah,

10:10

that's right, Chris. And when he says this is all new,

10:12

no, it's not. It started about 15 years

10:15

ago in the Republican caucus, right? And

10:17

Kevin knows that. Look, the only reason

10:19

Kevin McCarthy has his job as speaker

10:21

tonight is because nobody else wants

10:23

it. And probably nobody else could do

10:26

it. So that is the only reason Kevin

10:28

McCarthy is hanging on. And all that

10:30

is happening in this exercise is

10:32

that it's forestalling the real

10:34

bleed out that Kevin McCarthy is about to

10:37

have. Because as you have

10:39

made clear, but let's put a fine point on

10:41

this. Nothing that will pass the House

10:43

with only Republican votes can move

10:45

through the Senate. Not because Chuck Schumer

10:47

opposes it, but because Mitch McConnell

10:50

does. There is nothing that House Republicans

10:52

would pass that Senate Republicans would

10:54

take. And so what got Kevin McCarthy

10:56

to speak the speakership were all of these

10:59

false promises and the remarkable

11:01

thing. And maybe Matt Gaetz is the only person who's saying

11:03

you're not going to fool me twice. Is that they're all listening

11:06

to Kevin McCarthy and falling for his false promises

11:09

again, because the way this ends is

11:11

a bipartisan deal that hangs

11:13

Kevin McCarthy out to dry among his

11:15

colleagues. And that is it. So

11:18

the question is not will Kevin McCarthy

11:20

ultimately have to fall on his sword

11:22

in front of his caucus? It's when will he

11:24

have to do it? You know, Jen, this week

11:26

we've seen, you know,

11:28

Trump is a political figure is strange because he has a strange mix

11:31

of some kind of canny and good political

11:33

instincts with like the worst political instincts

11:35

of all time. So we've sort of seen him like

11:38

trying to sort of move to the center and he's

11:40

going to like, you know, quote unquote

11:42

support the union workers in Detroit. And

11:44

then last night he's like, shut the government down

11:47

so that I can stay out of jail, please.

11:49

Yeah. I just feel like it's like not

11:51

good politics. And if you're the White House and if you're the

11:54

Democrats, it's like you probably want

11:56

the American people to know that this is what's happening.

12:00

Well, that's true, and they do, and

12:03

you've seen how Team Jeffery and the members of the Democratic

12:05

leadership make that point as well. The

12:08

big problem

12:08

politically, though, is that a

12:10

government shutdown is good politics for

12:12

no one. We've seen this every time

12:14

it happens. No matter whose fault it is,

12:16

and it has been the Republican's fault,

12:19

the majority, if not every time in recent

12:21

years, it still blames on

12:24

both parties. And it's still seen

12:26

by the American people as government dysfunctioning,

12:29

because it is government dysfunctioning. So

12:32

yes, I'm certain the White House and Democrats

12:34

will continue to call Trump and the Republicans

12:37

out, but it's not winning politics

12:39

for them either. So

12:42

that's the political

12:42

problem. No, that's a great point,

12:45

too. I mean, I forget what the data is because this bounces

12:47

around, but like, I think only about half

12:49

of voters know who has a majority in the House, somewhere

12:52

around there. Matt Fuller,

12:54

who's a great Capitol Hill reporter

12:56

I love, he's an editor now, he was just joking today

12:58

about the people in the

13:00

weeds who are like, oh my God, the

13:02

rule failed. And meanwhile, people

13:04

in the country are like, who controls Congress? It

13:08

doesn't stand to them, which in some ways, David,

13:10

is I think part of what ...

13:13

There is a little method to the madness here, I think,

13:15

for Gates and the crew. I mean,

13:18

to me, there's sort of two goals. They

13:20

want to protect Donald Trump, even though they know that won't

13:22

be the outcome here. They can't defund Jack Smith unilaterally

13:25

from the House, but they want to show themselves fighting

13:27

on his behalf. And they want to take out McCarthy.

13:29

Ultimately, what they want to do is force

13:32

the issue such that McCarthy has to pass

13:34

up Democratic votes so that they could try to vacate

13:36

the chair and fall, right? Yeah,

13:39

the inside ballgame here among Republicans

13:42

is they could have stopped McCarthy over

13:44

the debt limit deal, right? When he said, oh, it was a big conservative

13:46

win, but it really wasn't. They could have stopped him

13:49

then. But the consequence

13:51

of taking the US credit rating

13:53

would be significant. Everyone would feel that Republicans

13:56

would lose in 24. Shutting down the government,

13:58

they look like kids on the playground. like fools,

14:00

but they can also go home to their own districts and say, hey,

14:03

we're fiscal conservatives. What they are overlooking,

14:06

and Jen referenced this, is in the last 30 years,

14:09

largely the White House always wins. The presidency

14:11

wins. They have the bully pulpit. Whatever

14:13

the fave, unfavorable of a president is, it is

14:16

far better than the Congress. Why

14:18

are Matt Gaetz and others doing this? Who mount

14:20

their own brand to run for a different office. Take

14:22

out Kevin McCarthy. Be the member that did

14:24

that. Yeah. And you've

14:27

got the so-called moderates. Again, these

14:29

are people who are frontline members, Mike Lawler. Lawler

14:32

is saying that if the House GOP

14:34

doesn't pass a short-term spending bill, he

14:37

will sign a discharge petition, which is a sort

14:39

of procedural mechanism you can use, joint forces

14:42

with Dems to try to pass one. It does

14:44

seem like there ... I guess

14:46

there's a way out of this, Jen, in which there is

14:48

some sort of bipartisan compromise that just doesn't

14:51

end around. But the other thing is, it just seems like

14:53

Trump is going to whip against that. And I do ...

14:55

I mean, he is the guy giving the orders.

14:57

He told them to impeach Biden, and

14:59

they're probably going to do it. I don't know how much they're

15:01

going to ignore him if he just decides

15:04

to hammer him on it.

15:07

No. I mean, he is the puppeteer,

15:10

whether he admits it or not. He is pulling

15:12

all the strings.

15:13

He's telling them the impeachment process.

15:15

He's denying it, but then he's dining with people

15:17

to get direction and give them direction, right?

15:21

He's giving them budget deals. He's

15:24

puppeteering the whole ... orchestrating

15:26

the whole thing here. So, yes, he

15:29

will whip against it. The problem for Kevin McCarthy,

15:31

and David referenced this, is that he

15:34

can make a deal with Democrats. They could come

15:36

to some sort of a deal, right? But

15:38

that may make him lose his speakership.

15:41

He also can't get a deal in the

15:43

form that he thinks he can with the

15:45

Republicans. So, he's a little damned

15:47

if he does, damned if he doesn't in this scenario.

15:49

And then you have Mitch McConnell over in the Senate,

15:52

just basically people are saying, what about Kevin McCarthy's

15:54

dealings? Like, Kevin McCarthy never heard of that

15:56

guy. I mean, they don't want anything to

15:58

do with what this deal is.

15:59

So Kevin McCarthy is in a very tricky,

16:02

tricky spot. Yeah, that's exactly right.

16:04

Because again, I mean, I don't want to get too in the weeds.

16:06

This is CR, the sort of debt ceiling deal applies

16:08

to the approach that are going to happen later. Forget

16:11

all that for a second. The main point

16:13

is the contours of the baseline

16:15

deal was struck. And the Senate has

16:17

taken that and been like, fine, this is what we're

16:19

doing. And they've been passing this stuff

16:22

91-7. They're going

16:24

to ship something over. And again,

16:26

it's going to be just the House Republican

16:28

caucus and Donald Trump,

16:29

Donald Trump,

16:33

I didn't do that on purpose, Donald Trump,

16:38

who are going to be like whining

16:40

and crying and wring their hands

16:42

and banging on about it. But in the end, they're

16:45

going to have to take it. I mean, the other thing is that like it

16:47

does end up looking like weakness in the end

16:49

to pick fights you cannot win, David.

16:54

It does. Because this is so in the weeds,

16:56

one of the things that was really overlooked last night you

16:58

just touched on Kevin McCarthy behind

17:00

closed doors to Republicans said, OK, I

17:03

will abandon my debt limit agreement with Joe

17:05

Biden and change the mac and everybody

17:07

else. And then he thought that would be enough. And

17:09

it turned out it wasn't. First, I

17:11

was surprised when I served how little communication

17:14

there was between John Boehner and Mitch

17:16

McConnell at the time. I don't think Kevin McCarthy

17:18

and Mitch McConnell have a joint strategy on

17:21

this. Everything Jen said is right. There

17:23

will be Republican losers in this process.

17:26

Somebody, some Republican in the House is going

17:28

to lose their seat. We just don't know who that

17:30

is yet. Yeah. And, Jen, I do think it's important

17:33

for Democrats here to not let

17:35

the Mike Lawler's of the world off the hook. Right.

17:39

Like it's like if you vote for Mike Lawler, who

17:41

makes the majority, the Republican

17:44

Party, this is what

17:45

you get. It doesn't matter what

17:47

he says. That's not the

17:49

person you're empowering. The person you're empowering

17:51

is Margaret Taylor Greene

17:52

and Matt Cates and all the rest. And I

17:54

think that's going to be one of the big arguments I would imagine

17:57

in these congressional races in 2024.

18:01

That's exactly right, Chris.

18:03

I mean, it well comes down to it. And even

18:05

the way that Biden has been running to date,

18:08

and now

18:08

he started to run a little bit more against Trump,

18:10

but has been running essentially

18:12

against the MAGA House

18:15

Republican extremist agenda.

18:17

And that is Marjorie Taylor Greene and

18:19

Matt Gaetz and Kevin McCarthy

18:22

at the top. What Mike Lawler

18:23

and others are doing is smart

18:26

politics for them

18:26

in that they are going to be able to differentiate

18:29

themselves at home and

18:31

run ads saying, I'm not afraid to

18:33

stand up to the leaders of my party. I'm

18:36

an independent. I represent the people

18:38

of my district. That's a dream

18:40

ad to run on if you

18:42

are in a vulnerable race. So yes,

18:44

something to watch. All right, Jen Psaki

18:47

and David Jolly. Thank you both. And

18:49

don't forget, you can catch Inside with Jen Sockett. It's going to

18:51

be Monday nights in this hour, starting

18:53

this Monday at 8 p.m. Jen, I'm very excited

18:55

for that. And don't worry. I'm not going anywhere. It's

18:57

Friday. I'll be here. All

19:00

right. Well, the ex-president can try all he wants

19:02

to shut down the government to stop federal

19:04

investigations. There's even less he can do about

19:07

the Georgia Rico case. Today, we

19:09

got to look at a defense witness list

19:11

in the first criminal trial over the attempt to

19:13

steal the 2020 election. Lawyers

19:15

for one of the indicted racketeers, Kenneth Chesbrough,

19:18

filed this list of evidence they may use

19:21

and witnesses they may call in his

19:23

rapidly approaching trial. His

19:25

trial, along with conspiracy lawyer Sidney Powell,

19:28

starts in just a month on October 23rd

19:30

when jury selection will start. Chesbrough's

19:33

lawyers telegraphed their defense strategy

19:36

at a recent hearing, apparently planning to

19:38

accuse Fulton County District Attorney Fawnee

19:40

Willis's office of prosecutorial

19:43

misconduct. There

19:45

have been many times, many times

19:48

that the Fulton County District Attorney's

19:50

office, including some

19:52

of the members that are sitting in the courtroom today,

19:54

have been called out by

19:57

courts by name. with

20:00

inappropriate things that they do in the grand jury

20:02

and at trial.

20:04

So no, I cannot take Ms. Young's

20:06

word for it that it was done properly. Ms.

20:09

Young's trying to send my client to prison

20:11

and we have the

20:14

right to know if it

20:16

was done properly. Judge

20:18

actually ended up granting the defense permission to

20:21

interview the grand jurors with some pretty

20:23

strong guidelines and restraints. Charles

20:25

Coleman is a former prosecutor now a civil rights and

20:27

criminal defense attorney. Lisa Rubin is a former

20:30

litigator and they join me now. First

20:32

of all, I cannot get over, I

20:35

guess let me just start with this.

20:36

Are they gonna go to trial October 23rd?

20:39

No.

20:40

You don't think so? Well, for me, the

20:42

reason I say, I think that the notion

20:44

of jury selection beginning on that date is a

20:46

viable date. And I think that is correct.

20:49

Yes, yes. I think that's going to happen. I think

20:51

people are underestimating the difficulty of

20:53

picking a jury for a trial like this. And

20:55

that is going to extend far beyond the

20:57

amount of time that people are underestimating. Now that's going

20:59

to be a significant hurdle, Chris, in

21:02

terms of just getting this off the ground. Not to mention

21:05

the motions and eliminate that you can expect just

21:07

by what we are already hearing from the defense

21:10

in terms of what they're going to be arguing and then

21:12

what they intend to do next, interviewing

21:14

grand jurors and so on and so forth. Those

21:16

things are going through time and could potentially push

21:18

things out further. So that's interesting. So sort of split,

21:20

what you're saying is yes, they're gonna start, like they're

21:23

gonna start jury selection. Yes.

21:25

The trial may take a while to get from jury selection

21:28

to trial and obviously the jury selection in one of these cases

21:30

is enormously consequential. I

21:33

mean, it's enormously consequential always. And we

21:35

know they're the jury consultants and I've read all the

21:37

stuff about how that work. But this

21:39

case above all else, right? Like trying

21:41

to figure out where are these folks

21:44

and are they going to be impartial?

21:45

That said, the first trial is going

21:47

to be of two people who are not necessarily American

21:50

household names, Ken Chasbro. And Sidney

21:52

Powell, who's admittedly more famous than

21:54

Ken Chasbro, but still not Donald Trump.

21:56

But to your point, Chris, Judge Scott McAfee

21:59

has already. made plans to basically

22:02

call forward 900 residents

22:04

of Fulton County to potentially be

22:07

members of this jury. And he could

22:09

do that again in successive rounds to

22:11

bring forth people. The district attorney

22:13

has tried to make this manageable. She has asked

22:15

for a jury questionnaire. The defense hasn't

22:17

said that they would oppose that. That will expedite

22:20

things substantially. But to Charles's

22:22

point, I don't think we're going to have a jury in a few days time.

22:26

The

22:28

strategy of Chez Brough's

22:30

lawyers, it appears, is a kind of like prosecutorial

22:33

misconduct approach. He's

22:36

now gotten the order from Judge McAfee

22:39

that defense counsel are directed to file a list

22:41

of proposed grand juror questions. The court will file

22:43

an order listing all approved and rejected

22:45

questions, right? So you can't go in there free for all. Makes sense.

22:48

The court will then independently contact each juror to

22:50

inquire whether he or she is willing to submit to

22:52

an interview. Interviews will be conducted on record

22:54

in the presence of the court and counsel for all parties

22:56

at a time agreeable to each juror. These are the grand jurors,

22:59

not that actually indicted him, but the special

23:01

grand jury, right?

23:02

No, these would be actual grand jurors. Oh, these

23:04

are the second one. Right, right. So the first thing that they

23:06

asked for was transcripts of all special

23:08

purpose grand jury interviews. They are not

23:10

going to get that. They're going to get that only insofar

23:13

as the state is going to offer some of them as witnesses.

23:15

But with respect to these interviews, these are of

23:18

the actual grand jurors, the people who signed

23:20

the true bill here. These

23:22

are the guardrails that Scott McAfee has put around it. And

23:24

then my dad, he's always my good barometer

23:26

for what regular people think about this. My dad was

23:28

a high school principal contacting me the other day and said,

23:30

what is this nonsense? Yeah,

23:32

it does seem wild. What

23:34

is this nonsense? And I said, but look

23:36

at all the different rules that are around it.

23:38

Look at all the guideposts. If there were

23:40

ever a responsible way to talk to grand jurors, this

23:43

is

23:43

it. Right. And let's step back for a moment,

23:45

Chris, and think really, really big picture and connect

23:47

some dots around defense defensive strategy

23:49

here. We were just talking about jury selection.

23:52

Remember, all you need is one. And

23:54

so if you are Cesborough's

23:56

attorney, you're thinking, can I

23:58

get to a space? where I can find someone

24:01

who's skeptical of the government and then

24:03

put this case out and then build

24:05

little things. It could be small, one thing here,

24:08

one thing there, and then ultimately I've got

24:10

my one holdout, I get a mistrial, and

24:13

my client walks. And let's be clear here, I mean,

24:15

I don't wanna, you know, I don't wanna put my

24:17

thumb on the scale here about the sort of ideological valence

24:19

of that, right? Like Fulton County has got a lot

24:21

of folks who have been through the system and have people who have

24:23

been through the system who may have every reason

24:26

on earth to be skeptical of

24:28

the DA's office, of the police, of

24:31

law enforcement, right? Like this idea

24:33

that like what you're looking for are people that

24:35

like Trump. That's a very different thing than

24:38

are people skeptical that this prosecutor's

24:40

office is on the up and up, which is a very different question.

24:43

And they did something today that indicates that

24:45

they're trying to sort of exploit that idea

24:48

by filing a motion saying that the search

24:50

warrant for Ken Chasbro's emails was

24:52

itself defective because the DA didn't

24:54

play by the rules. And of course in that motion, they also

24:56

inserted a dig at the DA's office. This

24:59

comes two months after they've done something similar

25:01

and another case. So they are looking to

25:03

exploit that mistrust wherever and however

25:05

they can find it. This

25:06

is gonna be fascinating to watch unfold.

25:09

Like this trial, I just don't know how you, I'm

25:11

very curious to see the defense they put on. I

25:15

think the beginning in terms of thematically

25:17

will be fascinating. I think when you get into the weeds,

25:20

it won't make sense to the lay

25:22

person. I got eyeballs

25:24

to keep here. I'm

25:27

not doing a deep tease here. You're like, no, turn

25:29

it off, buddy. I guarantee you, jury

25:31

selection, if it is on TV, will

25:34

actually likely be interesting. You won't see the jurors,

25:36

but you may hear some of the responses. The

25:38

actual opening statements, I expect to be riveting. Because

25:41

people are telling the weeds of how they're gonna

25:43

actually defend. It's gonna be interesting too to see how

25:45

long this thing goes. But also in the end, we're

25:48

looking at the first time, and again, under rules

25:50

of evidence, in a court of law in America,

25:53

that this singular crime, right, this

25:55

attempt, the first ever coup, is

25:58

gonna be presented to a jury. a jury.

26:01

Imagine a prize fight night where

26:03

even the undercards are like of

26:05

the great. Yes. That's what we're talking about.

26:07

Because we're building up to

26:10

the title fight, if you will, of

26:12

the former president being on trial. All

26:14

of these undercards are going to be super interesting.

26:16

That's a better cheese, Charles Coven. I think they should

26:18

ask the jury the question here, is it cheese bro or chess

26:20

bro? And Charles Coven.

26:23

Thank you very much. I still

26:26

don't know. I guess I kind of know. Still ahead.

26:28

If you're a Republican who decides to never vote

26:30

for Donald Trump, but the Republican Party has become

26:33

the party of Trump, does that mean almost as a

26:35

kind of logical matter that you

26:37

are not a Republican anymore? Ben Jacobs

26:39

went to Georgia to find out and he joins me.

26:45

Rupert

26:49

Murdoch announced his retirement today from

26:51

the boards of Fox and the News Corporation,

26:53

putting some Lachlan in charge who more

26:55

or less shares his daddy's politics. All

26:58

indications are Fox News will continue to be

27:00

every bit as destructive in American

27:03

and global life as it was under Rupert. At one

27:06

level, you can say that Rupert Murdoch has been a singularly

27:08

influential figure who has created

27:11

tremendous ruin. I mean, just absolute

27:14

ruin and misery across three

27:16

continents over the course of his life. So

27:19

a business that has been massively

27:21

profitable. One thing that

27:23

I think is underappreciated is

27:26

that as profitable as Fox

27:28

has been and as harmful as

27:31

it has been, there is a case to be

27:33

made that is actually been a political hindrance

27:36

to conservatives, conservatism and the Republican

27:38

Party. To the degree

27:41

to which Fox has this kind of captured

27:43

audience that's moved further and further from the mainstream

27:46

and further and further from the mainstream media,

27:50

it is lucrative for them. But it

27:52

also means it is increasingly hard for

27:54

people inside that bubble to talk

27:57

to and persuade people outside

27:59

it. And in fact, one of the things

28:01

that we're seeing in the Trump era realignment

28:04

is this growing distance between the MAGA

28:06

base and the median voter. A

28:09

distance that was evident when Trump got elected,

28:11

even though he'd lost the popular vote. It

28:14

was evident in the midterms in 2018, evidently lost

28:16

in 2020 by 7 million votes, even

28:19

when everyone inside the Fox bubble was convinced

28:21

he was going to win because everyone on Fox said

28:23

he was going to win. And

28:26

it's evident in the 2022 midterms

28:28

when the red tsunami Fox was

28:30

hyping never appeared. And

28:33

it's still evident today in the special elections

28:35

that we covered yesterday on this program with Democrats

28:38

overperforming in 24 of 30 special

28:40

elections this year by an average of 11 points,

28:44

even though Democrats occupy the White House

28:46

and it is usually the party outside of

28:48

power that is most motivated in these special

28:50

elections. Now, Fox News

28:52

is not the sole reason this is happening. Fox

28:55

News has contributed to what is happening, which

28:58

is basically the alienation

29:00

of a key constituency in American politics.

29:03

But we used to call moderate Republicans,

29:05

swing voters who were once persuadable, but a

29:08

lot of them have just now become basically

29:10

Democrats. That is the thesis

29:13

of a new piece by Ben Jacobs in the New Republic.

29:15

Our Never Trumpers actually just Democrats

29:18

now. And the author of that piece, Ben

29:20

Jacobs, joins me now. But I really

29:22

enjoyed the piece and I was reading it thinking of what

29:24

we were talking about special elections yesterday. What's

29:27

your basic thesis to the piece? The

29:30

basic thesis is that Donald Trump has provoked

29:32

this great realignment in American politics,

29:34

that for all the attention we spent

29:37

after 2016 going to the mythical

29:39

Rust Belt Diners in Ohio and Pennsylvania, where

29:41

there are Obama Trump voters, there

29:43

are a lot of now Romney Biden voters

29:46

in the suburbs in places like outside

29:48

Phoenix, outside Atlanta, that if you go to the

29:50

Lululemon, if you go to the Whole Foods there, there

29:53

are a lot of people who were once traditional

29:56

country club Republicans who are

29:58

now voting for Democrats. acts

30:00

in most races, not all

30:02

races, but certainly for president,

30:05

for U.S. Senate, as we've seen in Georgia, in

30:08

Arizona, and starting to move down

30:10

ballot as well. Yeah, this is what's key,

30:12

right? So we've known that there are these swing voters. But

30:15

one of the things you say is the endurance of never trumped

30:17

Republicans means that a not insignificant

30:19

number of George W. Bush and Mitt Romney voters

30:21

from pundits on down to suburban

30:23

parents are now part of the Democratic base

30:25

and participating in party primaries. What

30:28

you're saying is it's not just the voting behavior. It's

30:30

actually like a deeper partisan association

30:33

affiliation that's happening. Like these people

30:35

are becoming Democrats, self-identified

30:38

their voting behavior and even

30:40

to a certain extent how they might start seeing issues. Yes,

30:44

that's precisely right. You know, that

30:46

in your scene, this impact in data

30:48

that the voters who are leaving the

30:51

Republican Party are more likely to be pro-choice,

30:53

they're more likely to be pro-migration

30:55

reform, and that you're seeing the sort of rearrangement

30:58

of the parties, that these voters are also

31:00

disproportionately well-educated, and that

31:03

you're seeing a re-sorting of these voters

31:05

as they're approaching these issues. And as Donald Trump

31:08

in particular, you know, has become this

31:10

sort of repellent figure. And some of this

31:12

was happening already, that this is the

31:14

analogy I use, that there's sort of tectonic forces,

31:16

that there's this low steady shift, that

31:19

some of these areas were creeping slowly towards Democrats,

31:22

but Donald Trump just put it on steroids

31:24

in the same way that the upper Midwest, the parts

31:26

of the upper Midwest have gone towards Republicans

31:28

in the past decade. These prosperous,

31:30

well-educated suburban areas have really

31:33

zoomed in the other direction. What

31:35

do you think it means for the political fortunes

31:37

of the two coalitions? And what do you hear from

31:40

folks when you went and reported this out? What

31:43

it means for the political coalitions is that

31:45

you now starting to have this sort of much stronger

31:49

cultural divide, that the cleavages

31:51

are based on education, the cleavages are based on

31:53

some of the social issues we're seeing, and

31:55

that it really creates this sort of new

31:58

divide in terms of the party. that traditionally,

32:01

you think about special

32:03

elections, that go with turnout

32:06

elections traditionally were supposed to favor Republicans,

32:08

because Republicans' voters were traditionally more

32:11

affluent, better educated, and more likely to vote in

32:13

Democrats you needed to persuade. As

32:15

the coalitions have shifted, Democrats are

32:17

performing better in midterms, performing better in special

32:19

elections, because they

32:21

are now more of the high propensity voters.

32:24

And you have the shift in voters, they're

32:26

still in between that. There are examples in the articles

32:28

of folks who are frustrated with Trump,

32:31

frustrated with, some of them are frustrated with

32:33

Biden, and there's still sort of a spectrum

32:36

to which, this is not a clear

32:38

conversion, that this is not an issue

32:40

in which you have voters who

32:42

have suddenly flipped on a switch because they're repelled

32:44

by Trump, that you have in the area I went

32:46

to, a lot of people voted for Joe Biden,

32:49

who voted for Raphael Warnock in the Senate race, then

32:51

also voted for Republican Brian Kemp for Governor

32:54

in 2020. And that they're

32:57

looking for normal Republicans, than if they're crazy

32:59

Republicans, they're going straight Democrat. Yeah,

33:01

this is interesting. That point you made,

33:04

I wanna just linger on this for a moment, because

33:06

it's something I'm sort of obsessed with, for as long

33:08

as I've covered politics, the

33:10

belief is higher turnout

33:12

helps Democrats, right? That Democrats have

33:14

a higher percentage of sort of lower propensity voters,

33:17

that they have the harder time turning folks out, the

33:20

Republicans have higher propensity voters,

33:22

the ones that show up for midterms, and that's why you

33:24

got 94, and that's why you got 2010. Changing

33:28

nature of the coalition is changing

33:31

that, and we're seeing it in these special elections. I

33:33

also think it's really interesting, because

33:35

you get to this point where you're sort of, you've

33:38

got an interesting tension

33:40

between one's principles and what might be best. So

33:42

like in Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro just introduced

33:44

automatic voter registration. I think

33:46

that's great. I support that. I

33:48

want people to vote, no matter which party

33:51

it helps.

33:52

But the idea that high

33:54

levels of turnout automatically help Democrats

33:57

just might

33:57

not be born out anymore, and it might also make

33:59

Republicans.

33:59

and start to rethink what they've been

34:02

doing in stopping people from going

34:04

to the ballot box. That's

34:06

certainly a possibility, but it's also so

34:09

much of this has become tribal, that so

34:11

much of these attitudes are rooted in

34:13

tribalism, that there's so much of this is about

34:15

cultural signifiers, and that that's

34:17

become part of this too. That if you

34:19

think about how much Donald Trump has changed politics,

34:21

which is part of this, is that just about everything has been

34:23

politicized. What beer you drink, what

34:26

sports you watch is political, and

34:28

that some of this is not about the

34:30

broader electoral logic, but there's

34:33

a symbolism there that we've seen in

34:35

politics throughout, which is part of the reason why

34:37

Brian Kemp won. That it wasn't that

34:39

Brian Kemp was a liberal Republican, no

34:41

one would confuse him with a Republican. No, he's very coming up. Nelson

34:44

Rockefeller, but because he broke with

34:46

Trump on the elections, and because the stylistic

34:48

differences, he was perceived as more moderate,

34:51

and that made the difference, and that helped

34:54

Republicans down the ticket too, that all the state

34:56

Republicans that you had, Trump endorsing election deniers,

34:58

who benefited from the same wave as you did

35:00

Brad Raffensperger, who testified before

35:03

the January 6th committee, and won this with key figures

35:05

in stopping the efforts overturn the election, that it creates

35:08

this branding and this cultural signifiers

35:11

that's more than the policy nuances.

35:14

That's a really good point. It's a great piece in The New Republic

35:16

by Ben Jacobs. Thank you very much. Thank

35:18

you, Chris. Still to come, the four

35:20

times indicted ex-president is afraid to debate,

35:23

so he's going to Detroit

35:24

to pretend he cares about the working

35:25

man instead. I'll

35:28

tell you why that's particularly hilarious next.

35:37

So Donald Trump has made his counter-programming

35:39

plan for next week's second Republican debate.

35:42

He's going to head to Detroit, where he's going to deliver

35:44

a speech in front of hundreds of auto workers,

35:46

who of course remain on strike from the nation's

35:48

three biggest manufacturers. It

35:51

is a notable play for the front row of the Republican

35:53

nomination, because for

35:55

the better part of the last century, the

35:58

Republican Party has been the party of the... It's

36:01

the party of management over labor. It's

36:03

a core, core part of the identity,

36:05

a central Republican belief.

36:08

For decades, decades, it has been

36:10

the case. If you elect a Republican president,

36:13

you will get a federal government that is much more hostile

36:16

to organized labor. And crucially, this

36:18

is important. This was also true

36:20

under the last Republican president,

36:23

a guy by the name of Donald Trump.

36:25

Donald Trump appointed anti-labor members

36:28

to the National Labor Relations Board. He chose

36:30

Eugene Scalia, son of conservative

36:33

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia and a longtime

36:35

corporate lawyer to lead the Department of

36:37

Labor. He elevated anti-worker

36:40

judges to the federal courts who consistently have

36:42

been ruling against labor in their

36:44

purchase on the bench. Now

36:47

Donald Trump and his party of bosses have

36:49

a bit of a political problem. You

36:51

see, something is happening in America. We

36:54

are witnessing an enormous resurgence

36:56

of pro-labor enthusiasm. Nearly 70%

36:59

of Americans support labor unions, a number

37:02

that has been steadily rising for the

37:04

past decade. 75% of

37:07

Americans, 75% say they side

37:09

with the auto workers in their current

37:11

dispute. So when you look at those poll

37:13

numbers, what is a Republican to do in the

37:15

face of that clear public opinion

37:18

and a strike with no end in sight? Now

37:20

some, like presidential hopefuls Nikki

37:22

Haley and Tim Scott, notably

37:25

both from one of the most anti-union states

37:27

in the country, South Carolina, are sticking

37:29

to the old party line. You almost

37:31

have to respect it. Scott even suggested

37:34

firing workers who go on strike. But

37:37

the more sophisticated political operators

37:39

have managed to reverse

37:42

engineer a perfect scapegoat

37:44

for the whole situation.

37:46

Woke cars.

37:49

Guiding the workers are right, they need higher wages

37:51

and importantly we need to stop the

37:53

premature push to electric vehicles that's

37:55

putting a lot of Ohio auto workers out of a

37:57

job. I guarantee you that.

38:00

One of the reasons one of the things that's driving that strike

38:02

is that that Bidenomics and

38:05

and their green energy electric vehicle

38:07

agenda is is good

38:10

for Beijing and bad for Detroit They want

38:12

to destroy the auto workers

38:14

in this country. They want to have cars made all

38:16

electric They're all going to be made within three

38:18

years. They're all going to be made in China

38:22

The electric vehicles are the problem not the corporations

38:24

of the bosses of the record profits not translating

38:26

to record contracts where the two-tier

38:28

system Put in when Detroit was

38:30

flat on its back and the American people rescued them

38:33

know it's the woke environmental

38:35

agenda It's the electric cars, which of course we need for the

38:37

future to mitigate the biggest Civilizational

38:40

threat we've ever met This

38:42

line is a great way for Republicans

38:45

to avoid sounding like the anti-union

38:47

bosses lack use that they in fact are

38:49

and They are help of the fact it

38:51

does contain a kernel of truth There's a lot

38:54

of anxiety among the Auto Workers Union

38:56

about the transition to electric Especially with

38:58

the country's biggest electric automaker

39:00

Tesla not being unionized would

39:03

be great if it was unionized I'm not

39:05

sure Donald Trump would support that one Now

39:08

you can be sure that Donald Trump will harp

39:10

on electric vehicles again in Detroit When

39:12

he speaks in front of the striking Auto Workers

39:14

next week and it will be a real

39:17

test of the political press Will

39:21

they just focus on the optics? Donald

39:24

Trump courts union voters or

39:26

will they dig into the actual substance

39:29

of Trump's? actual record on labor

39:32

when he was actually the president of the United

39:34

States as well as the record

39:36

of his party versus that of

39:39

president Joe Biden a President

39:41

who's filled the National Labor Relations Board

39:43

with some of the most pro-labor appointees in

39:45

memory Now I have to say this

39:48

is exactly what Politico just did meeting the

39:50

test when they followed up on a story about

39:52

the optics Of Trump's speech with this

39:54

piece about his clear and consistent

39:56

anti-labor record

39:59

in

39:59

office

40:00

Kudos to Politico for that. But

40:03

this is a key test. A whole lot

40:05

of outlets failed in 2016.

40:08

And we do not want that to happen again. We cannot

40:10

just report on what Donald Trump says

40:12

on its face. Donald Trump

40:14

was the president of the United States. In that position,

40:17

he wielded real power. He has a substantive

40:19

record beneath his words, and everyone

40:22

has a responsibility to tell the full

40:24

truth about that.

40:29

Democrats have excelled, as I've noted, in a number of

40:31

special elections this year. One of their most crucial

40:34

victories was in a race to fill a vacancy

40:37

on the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Wisconsin,

40:39

as you know, swing state, basically a 50-50 state. Donald

40:42

Trump won the state in 2016. Joe Biden

40:44

won it in 2020. They both won by about the same

40:46

margin, around 20,000 votes. In

40:49

April this year, however, a woman named Janet

40:51

Pertisewitz, progressive Democrat-aligned

40:54

candidate for the Wisconsin Supreme Court, they're

40:57

officially nonpartisan, won a state

40:59

seat on the Supreme Court by more than 200,000 votes.

41:03

That woman won 10 times

41:06

the margin of Joe Biden.

41:08

And Republicans are now so angry at being rejected

41:10

by their own voters, they're talking about

41:12

impeaching Justice Pertisewitz—get

41:15

this—before she has even heard a

41:17

single case. A decision,

41:19

it should go without saying, that could throw the state into

41:22

an even deeper democratic crisis. Of

41:25

course, Janet Pertisewitz, not the only progressive, twin

41:27

statewide office in Wisconsin, Senator

41:29

Tammy Baldwin is a Democrat representing

41:31

the state of Wisconsin, and she joins me

41:34

now. Senator, I got to say, I

41:36

love the state of Wisconsin. It's a great place.

41:39

I love Madison. I love... So do

41:41

I. Well, good. The

41:43

politics in your state are wild. Every

41:46

time I see a headline out of there, I'm like, what

41:48

are they doing there? I want to start

41:50

on this state Supreme Court race. You

41:53

guys have elected state Supreme Court justices.

41:55

That's just the state constitution, the way it works. Thanks,

41:58

Woman 1. They're going to maybe

42:01

impeach her because they don't want her to strike down

42:04

the gerrymandered maps that they themselves

42:06

made. Are they really going to do try to do this?

42:10

Well, I have

42:12

a difficulty reading the tea leaves, but look

42:14

what we know. They've threatened

42:16

numerous occasions now to

42:19

impeach her before she's even heard a case,

42:21

as you say. That

42:24

would result if they went

42:26

ahead with it in a three to three court,

42:29

if you look at the ideology. They

42:32

must view the potential

42:34

of fair and just maps

42:37

in the state of Wisconsin as an existential

42:39

threat. It sounds like they'll do anything

42:42

in order to keep the

42:44

court from ruling on such a case,

42:47

or also there

42:49

are several other major cases headed

42:52

up to our state Supreme Court. But

42:55

I suspect that the gerrymandering

42:57

case is the one that makes them quake in their boots

43:00

and why we're seeing such outrageous activity

43:03

from our Republican legislators in the

43:05

state of Wisconsin. Yeah, we should note that the

43:07

Republican legislators

43:09

drew a map that takes a state that is

43:11

a 50-50 state and gives them basically 65-35 majorities.

43:14

They take an election in which roughly

43:17

half of the people voting for Democrats and Republicans gives

43:19

them super majorities. The maps are

43:22

incredibly difficult for Democrats

43:24

to ever win a majority. You

43:27

mentioned that there's a possibility of other cases

43:29

going out with the Supreme Court, and I want to talk about the issue of abortion

43:32

in your state. You of course are pro-choice.

43:34

You're opposed to the overturning of Roe. A

43:38

judge in your state recently

43:41

found that the 1849 law

43:45

that suddenly turned on like some

43:48

sort of dormant zombie,

43:51

that

43:53

bans abortion in your state is not

43:56

correct, that it doesn't actually ban abortion

43:59

and that abortions can happen.

44:01

Look, since the Dobbs decision, women

44:04

in Wisconsin have lived under

44:05

an 1849 law that is a criminal

44:09

abortion ban,

44:13

no exceptions for rape

44:15

or incest, etc. A lower

44:17

court in the state of Wisconsin has

44:20

viewed that statute and reviewed

44:23

it and says that it does not

44:25

apply to voluntary abortion. It

44:27

is a feed aside statute. And

44:30

on that basis, Planned Parenthood

44:32

in the state of Wisconsin has resumed

44:35

providing abortion care

44:38

in the cities of Milwaukee and

44:40

Madison. And I stand

44:43

with Planned Parenthood in that decision.

44:46

But I do see hurdles

44:49

ahead. There are so many

44:52

other restrictions on access

44:54

to complete reproductive health care in

44:56

the state of Wisconsin. And that's why

44:58

on the federal level, we have to pass my Women's

45:01

Health Protection Act, which would

45:03

codify Roe versus Wade. So

45:05

it wouldn't be dependent upon

45:07

what zip code or state

45:09

you live in, what your rights

45:12

and freedoms were. And

45:15

it would also tell the state you cannot

45:17

further encumber or limit

45:21

the rights

45:21

articulated in Roe versus Wade. Yeah,

45:24

it's wild, too, because that that same protest

45:26

say what Supreme Court race was, in some

45:28

ways, substantially a proxy

45:30

vote about abortion, right? I mean, that was clear that

45:33

that would be one of the things that would figure prominently.

45:35

And the state spoke pretty definitively

45:37

in the last 20. Right.

45:39

I think that is that a vote

45:41

for Janet Pro to say what most Wisconsinites

45:44

viewed as a vote to restore

45:47

rights and freedoms that have been stripped

45:49

away over time in our state.

45:52

And I think that includes a woman's

45:55

right to control her body and plan

45:57

her family. So abortion

45:59

acts. But it also includes—you

46:02

were just talking about Republicans

46:04

and labor. It also includes restoring

46:07

collective

46:07

bargaining rights for public employees

46:10

in our state. It also includes

46:14

the issues we were talking about with gerrymandering,

46:16

but also the further restrictions that

46:19

our Republican legislature and our former

46:21

Republican governor has put on access

46:24

to the ballot box. And so

46:26

all of those, I think, voters had on

46:28

their minds that they went out and overwhelmingly

46:32

elected justice

46:34

now, pro-Dys

46:36

Sanders.