0:00

Hey, cast of Kingslisteners. What you're about to hear

0:02

is a clip from a decoding TV podcast

0:04

episode that I recorded with Kim Rintreau and

0:06

my wife Joy in which we discuss the Netflix

0:08

original series eighteen ninety nine.

0:10

Season one of which is streaming right now.

0:13

In this clip, we discussed overall thoughts

0:15

on the first season with those spoilers.

0:17

And then there's a spoiler warning and then we get into

0:20

full spoilers including what we thought of each

0:22

character storyline as well as what is

0:24

going on with the ending of season one

0:26

and our wild speculations and theories.

0:28

So this is the non spoilerory part where we talk about

0:30

our overall thoughts. To hear the rest of the episode, all you gotta

0:32

do is go to podcast dot decoding tv dot com

0:35

where you can listen to us discuss eighteen ninety

0:37

nine, as well as other shows like Andor

0:39

White Lotus and the Last Of Us

0:41

coming up in January. Thanks so

0:43

much for listening. Hope you have a happy

0:45

holiday and enjoy this clip from

0:47

the decoding TV podcast in which we cover

0:50

eighteen ninety nine. Hello,

0:52

everyone, and welcome to decoding TV,

0:54

a podcast about television. We got

0:56

a special treat for you today. We are here to

0:58

talk about 1 of the top

1:00

shows on Netflix has been there consistently

1:03

for the last few weeks. It's a show called

1:05

eighteen ninety nine. It's from the creators of

1:07

Dark And joining me today

1:09

for this podcast episode, I

1:11

mean, I have the best of the

1:13

best. The cream of the crop

1:15

She is known as at joy on

1:17

napping on Twitter, and also

1:20

my wife. At joy on napping,

1:22

who will call joy, welcome to decoding

1:24

TV. Thank you. I'm so excited

1:26

to be here with you and the rest of the cream of

1:28

the crop.

1:29

Indeed. Indeed. I mean -- Yeah. -- everyone

1:32

I just spilled it. Every

1:35

every one at decoding TV is is really the

1:37

cream of the crop. But, yes, I We're all tied for first.

1:39

You're all you're all tied for first. That's really what

1:41

it is. But obviously, you've

1:44

heard Joanne and myself talk about the Crown

1:46

season five and better

1:49

call sole season season finale here on the decoding

1:51

TV feed and probably

1:53

many more things in the future. Joining us

1:55

also. She

1:58

is a writer at

2:00

insider dot com. She's also my cohost

2:02

on a cast of Kings podcast, Kim Renfro.

2:05

Welcome to decoding TV. I think this is your

2:07

first appearance On decoding

2:10

TV. I've made it. Yeah.

2:12

The your the whole first ten

2:15

episodes of House of Dragon recap was

2:17

really a long elaborate test

2:19

to see if you're worthy to get onto decoding

2:21

devices. Yeah. So welcome. Thank you. Yes.

2:23

Yeah. Hey, Kim. It's this

2:26

is this is like our first podcast since

2:28

House of the Dragon ended. So

2:31

I hope I hope life's been treating you well. I've

2:33

missed our weekly chats. I know me too.

2:35

It's so nice to to see her face and hear

2:37

her voice. Oh, well, the

2:39

the feeling is mutual. But,

2:41

hey, We're not here for the Lufus. We

2:43

are here to talk about eighteen ninety

2:45

nine. Six

2:52

hours ago, we received a message. We

2:56

believe this comes from the Prometheus. You

2:58

think the passengers are still alive? Kavitha,

3:11

we paid good money for this trip, seven

3:13

days to get to New York, no details.

3:29

That was from the trailer for eighteen ninety

3:31

nine season 1, which is currently streaming

3:33

on net Flicks. I'm going to read the plot summary

3:36

of this movie of this TV series from

3:38

MDB. Multinational immigrants

3:40

traveling from the old continent to the new

3:43

encounter a nightmarish riddle aboard

3:45

a second ship adrift on

3:47

the open sea. That is

3:50

the pretty vague plot

3:52

summary. About eighteen ninety nine.

3:54

Now, I think in

3:56

order to talk about eighteen ninety nine and

3:58

like why we are interested in the show at all,

4:01

it might be good to provide some context.

4:04

The people who created this show, I'm gonna

4:06

probably butcher their names, but I'm gonna give

4:08

a shot. Jansa Freeza, and

4:11

Barron Bo Oder. Is

4:13

that roughly the the co creators

4:15

of eighteen ninety nine? Mhmm. They

4:17

also co created dark, which

4:19

ran for three seasons on Netflix and

4:22

is a massively popular international

4:25

show that was critically

4:27

acclaimed, and both of my co hosts have

4:29

seen the entirety of Dark. I've seen season one

4:31

of Dark, never finished it, but I enjoyed what

4:33

I saw. But, Kim,

4:35

why don't we start with you? I mean, you

4:37

were an enormous Santa Dark. Tell us

4:39

about what you loved about that show and why

4:41

you were looking forward to eighteen ninety nine.

4:44

Yeah. Dark is one of those like

4:47

sleeper Netflix hits

4:49

for me where you

4:51

know, it was in the era where Netflix wasn't

4:53

quite putting out the level of originals

4:55

that they are right now. This was twenty sixteen.

4:58

If I'm She's remembering

5:00

correctly. It was like

5:02

the post Stranger Things era where everyone

5:04

was kind of like hunting for what was gonna be that

5:06

next hidden gem. And

5:08

dark. I saw the teaser and it looked

5:10

to me like a combination of like

5:13

like true crime, murder mystery, stranger

5:16

things with like a David fincher filter

5:18

put over it. And I was like cool, sold.

5:20

I'll watch this. And yeah, I just

5:22

fell in love very quickly. It

5:24

was the first international Netflix

5:26

series I watched, so I watched it all in

5:28

the original German with just

5:30

reading subtitles. I thought it

5:32

had, like, an incredible score, both

5:34

the original score and then the soundtrack

5:36

of songs that they paired along with it were, like,

5:38

some indie bands I've always loved and have never,

5:40

like, heard like,

5:42

I hadn't heard Feveray used in a

5:45

Netflix show yet. And so, yeah, I

5:47

just really loved it and By the time

5:49

that they got to season three, I think

5:51

that Dark is one of the most, like,

5:53

tightly written series I have ever

5:55

seen, like, to completion from

5:57

start to end. It is so rewatchable

6:00

because they very clearly from the outset

6:02

knew exactly how complicated everything

6:04

was gonna be, but they planned it out to

6:06

a tee. Which is something that,

6:08

you know, shows, like, Westworld have really struggled

6:10

with once they get up to those second third

6:12

seasons. But, like, Dark was, like, whoa.

6:14

This was it felt

6:16

very buttoned up. Mhmm. And

6:18

so It it it felt like when you

6:20

got to the end, you're like, oh, wow. They clearly

6:22

were planning for this from the beginning as

6:24

opposed to making things up left and right, and

6:26

now it doesn't really fit with what we saw earlier.

6:28

Right? Yeah. Or, like, you know, it's inevitable I

6:30

think in, like, these, like, big high concept

6:32

sci fi show sometime that, like, threads

6:34

will get dropped eventually, like lost

6:36

or whatever it is. But, like, really dark

6:38

had so few, like, even

6:40

minute prop details

6:42

or, like, character costumes that were

6:44

coming full circle, like, just

6:46

very cool. But yeah. So I love I

6:48

love digging down about it. Joy, I would

6:50

love to hear all of your dark thoughts

6:52

too. Yeah. Joy, tell us about your dark thoughts,

6:55

bleak thoughts, but your thoughts on

6:57

On dark? My

6:59

happy thoughts about dark are,

7:01

you know, it took me a little while to

7:03

finish the show because it

7:05

is in German and I wanted to read the subtitles

7:07

as opposed to hear the

7:08

dub, I think I didn't quite catch

7:10

up until very recently.

7:12

And I

7:12

knew it would be frankly, it's like conceptually

7:15

pretty difficult to follow what's

7:17

going on. Yeah. And I knew just from

7:19

Internet vibes that it was gonna get escalatingly

7:22

complicated. So if you

7:24

for instance David enjoyed season one, I

7:26

think season two and three will below

7:28

your mind, And

7:31

don't worry Internet. If you were screaming

7:33

at your phone just now when he said he only

7:35

watched one season. That

7:37

I am working on him really hard to finish

7:39

it. Because it is so rewatchable. I'd be

7:41

thrilled to start it with him again at the beginning.

7:43

Yeah. You look you look like you might 1899 react

7:45

to that, David. Yeah.

7:48

Well, so I watched season

7:50

one. I thought it was really, really well

7:52

done. But the show is just a lot

7:54

of work. You know, it demands a

7:56

lot of you. You're

7:58

seeing multiple

8:00

characters in different time periods

8:02

of their lives played by different

8:04

actors. And

8:06

you need to kind of memorize, like,

8:08

who is who, and then also, like,

8:10

sometimes they're, like, from different dimensions, and then

8:13

then it's, like, okay, which one of these and so you just

8:15

need to keep track you just need to work to keep track of it all.

8:17

And -- Yeah. -- I didn't have Kim

8:20

Rempro with, like, amazing show notes

8:23

to guide me through it, unfortunately. So

8:26

but I'm willing to to tackle again. That said,

8:28

I was a huge fan of what I saw from season

8:30

one. Like, it's season one is really well

8:32

done overall. Like, it's a very satisfying

8:34

watch overall. And

8:37

so when eighteen ninety nine showed

8:39

up on the Netflix queue, I was like, hey,

8:41

let's give it a shot. Let's I

8:43

was at the time as I was finishing

8:45

season three of

8:47

dark. Eighteen ninety nine was coming

8:49

out. And so I thought I need to,

8:51

like, really get through dark so that I

8:53

can close that off even though it is

8:55

incredibly complicated like you said and takes work

8:57

David, I really believe it is worth

8:59

every ounce of that effort. I

9:01

too, like, so many other people have,

9:03

like, post lost

9:05

traumatic syndrome where you, like, start

9:07

a show and it's so intriguing, but you really

9:09

wanna see if they kind of land it

9:11

before you put in the effort to do the

9:13

whole thing. So, yes, Kim, and

9:15

her incredible recaps, and

9:18

dissection at insider dot com are there to guide

9:20

you as well as, you know, your wife nudging you in

9:22

the ribs. And

9:25

coming off of that, I

9:27

felt So in

9:29

awe of the architecture of what

9:31

these show runners had put together for a dark

9:33

that I was ready to really follow

9:35

them literally anywhere including

9:37

into this steampunk y,

9:39

you know, sort of late Victorian

9:41

era world. And

9:44

we can talk about how excited

9:46

or not we are about that now that

9:48

we've seen season one. Yeah.

9:51

So here's how the structure of this conversation is

9:53

gonna go. We are gonna talk

9:55

about overall thoughts on eighteen ninety nine

9:57

with no spoilers, and

10:00

then we are gonna dive into full spoilers

10:03

because you really can't have a conversation

10:06

about the show without diving into full spoilers.

10:08

So we're gonna try to be as vague as

10:10

possible during the pre spoiler

10:12

section, but Let's start with Kim Renfro.

10:14

Do you think people should watch

10:16

eighteen ninety nine? What do you think of a show

10:17

overall? I

10:19

do think people should watch eighteen ninety

10:22

nine. It's eight episodes. Like,

10:24

you know, if it was ten,

10:26

I might hesitate little bit

10:28

more these days in this economy. In

10:30

this economy. Eight episodes in this

10:32

economy. Eight

10:34

episodes that are all under an hour, you know,

10:36

this is a show that I think is worth

10:39

it. Honestly,

10:41

due to a

10:43

very well deserved build up of

10:45

goodwill for the creators of

10:47

this show based on what I've seen in

10:49

dark. Interesting interesting

10:52

statement Kim because that almost implies

10:54

that without that buildup of

10:56

goodwill, season one might

10:58

be regarded by many people as like a

11:00

waste of time. I'm just throwing out

11:02

hypothetically. That's a fascinating

11:05

completely off the cuff thought that I think you

11:07

just had there. I'm not I'm just calling I'm

11:09

just shooting the hip here, you know.

11:11

But it it sounds like it sounds

11:13

like from what you're saying that, like, some amount

11:15

of goodwill might

11:17

be desired perhaps even necessary.

11:20

To really -- Yeah. -- enjoy the show. Yeah.

11:22

The the goodwill smooths

11:24

out some rough edges that I

11:26

would probably otherwise mull

11:31

over more than I am at the moment. I've

11:33

sort of -- Mhmm. -- I've sort of shaken off

11:35

the things. Which

11:37

we can get into later once for talking

11:39

specifics. But, yeah, I I think that,

11:41

like, dark season one was probably

11:43

a a stronger overall

11:46

introductory season for the story that they

11:48

were telling, then this is

11:50

based on what I think they're doing

11:52

by the end of this season.

11:56

But it's still very strong for me

11:58

in terms of, like, production

12:01

design, like, a

12:03

lot of, like, the sci fi concepts

12:05

that we see in this show, I think, are executed

12:08

very, like, in a very just cool

12:11

way that I like and I like to just sit

12:13

there and, like, be in awe of this

12:15

little invention or this little steampunk

12:18

retro futuristic thing that

12:20

I probably wouldn't have thought of.

12:22

I like how multilingual

12:25

it is. I really like that

12:27

aspect of it. Because

12:30

I don't watch a ton of shows that

12:32

are subtitled or that are in foreign

12:34

languages. And so this one

12:37

liked dark. I found it very easy to get into and,

12:39

like, fall into the rhythm of these characters.

12:41

But, yeah, there are there are some there are

12:43

some rough rough patches in there

12:45

and some things that I'm, you know, I

12:47

really hope I see a second season of

12:49

that can clear up some of my questions and

12:52

concerns at the moment. Mhmm.

12:55

Joy, what did you think of eighteen ninety nine season

12:57

one? Very similar to

12:59

what Kim thought. A,

13:02

if you just wanna hang out vibe's show and

13:05

this is your vibe, there's no

13:07

better you're not gonna find something with more

13:09

spectacular production. As

13:11

a moody, probably

13:14

haunted ship, you know, kind of show

13:16

set in this era, steamship specifically.

13:20

And I learned a lot about the workings of

13:22

steamships, actually, from this, like how much work it

13:24

is to shovel that coal. But

13:27

you know Right. Like not not too long ago, basically,

13:29

there was physical humans that

13:31

needed to throw coal into fire in order

13:33

for a ship to keep

13:34

going. Right? You guys not re watching Titanic on

13:36

a, like, biannual basis.

13:42

A whole engine room plotline. It's

13:44

a reminder. It's a reminder. It's a

13:46

reminder. Yes. What

13:48

James Cameron brought to our lives so many years

13:49

ago, we are now reminded of through the magic

13:52

of eighteen ninety nine. Steam ships. I

13:55

think the

13:57

scifi concepts work enough for

13:59

me. What I think, you know, it's so hard again

14:01

not to compare this to dark. Dark

14:04

manages to deliver emotional

14:06

payoffs along with the sort

14:08

of plot reveals, even the interim

14:10

plot reveals in a way that

14:12

this doesn't quite do for me. And

14:14

I think that is probably both

14:16

a feature and a bug

14:18

of the fact that the cast mostly

14:20

doesn't speak the same language. So

14:22

because it is by construct people

14:24

from all over Europe and China,

14:26

basically, all ending up on this

14:28

steam ship headed to

14:29

America. It's a metaphor for

14:31

America itself and its founding.

14:34

You are

14:34

frequently looking at pairings of people

14:37

who cannot communicate to each

14:39

other. And there is

14:41

a restrained choice Have

14:43

you I don't know if you guys have ever

14:45

been in a foreign country where you don't speak

14:47

the language, so you end up making these really

14:49

wild hand gestures that you might not ordinarily

14:52

make. People aren't even doing

14:54

that. They're just sort of speaking that native

14:56

language to each other. Yeah.

14:58

And so the idea that they have

15:00

an emotional connection is a little

15:02

bit harder I don't think it's even there

15:04

on screen. So I

15:06

really believe that as we head

15:08

into a second season, hopefully, we'll see

15:10

if Netflix I know

15:12

the Netflix money is not flowing like it

15:14

used to, and this thing is clearly very

15:16

expensive. But if we get

15:18

another season, I have to believe that they're

15:20

gonna take another pass at what some

15:22

of those relationships might be like.

15:24

I

15:25

think that was a really good point about

15:27

the limitations then of the

15:29

emotional payoff. In the multilingual

15:31

setup.

15:32

Mhmm. And I loved the multilingual

15:34

setup. Some people are very annoyed by it. I think

15:36

it's quite realistic, quote unquote,

15:39

for a fi concept. But Yeah. Di

15:41

Chen, you seem most satisfied

15:43

with that. Okay. Well well, first of all,

15:45

as of this recording, we don't know

15:47

if there will be season two. It's possible by

15:49

the time you're listening to

15:50

this. It's like season two has been announced. But as we're

15:53

recording right now, we don't know if season

15:55

two Or it's been canceled. Or if

15:57

it's been canceled, we just don't know at at

15:59

this moment. It seems

16:01

like it might, you know,

16:03

be renewed just because the show

16:05

is from what I could tell, it's always,

16:07

like, on the top ten charts. Yeah.

16:11

So I think it it is distinctly

16:13

possible that it will get a renewal.

16:15

According to Wikipedia, the

16:18

production budget for season one

16:20

was something on the order of, like, seventy

16:22

million dollars. Sixty

16:24

or sixty two point two million

16:26

dollars. So it's like a pretty expensive

16:28

show. It's like and and it it

16:30

looks expensive.

16:32

Okay. My thoughts on eighteen ninety

16:34

nine, you know, when

16:36

I pitched this podcast to you both, I

16:38

was like, I'll be the facilitator. And

16:41

it it was gonna be listening to Joanne

16:43

Kim two incredibly

16:45

intelligent commentators talk about

16:48

this very deep show

16:50

that it is very intricate and complex. Why

16:52

is that the setup for this podcast? Because

16:55

I didn't care for this show, really

16:57

at all. I mean, this

17:00

is a show where I

17:03

felt like the

17:07

storytelling went off

17:09

the rails. Like, it went

17:11

out of control. Like, there's a

17:13

certain feeling you get when you feel like, oh,

17:15

man. Like, these show runners are,

17:17

like, in control of the storytelling.

17:20

And andor is

17:23

one such show. House of

17:25

the Dragon, in my opinion, to a lesser extent,

17:27

like some of their decisions

17:29

felt like, oh, like, it it almost feels like it's spinning

17:31

a little bit out of control with regards to all

17:33

the time jumps for me personally.

17:36

But ultimately, like, those were shows that I felt like,

17:39

oh, they accomplished what they set out to

17:41

do in those shows. Eighteen

17:43

ninety nine was a show where I

17:45

constantly felt like I don't even know hey,

17:47

I don't even know what I'm looking at. Like, I don't

17:49

even know what is happening in the

17:52

show. And It

17:54

it felt honestly very similar

17:56

to Westworld later seasons

17:58

where, like, the show

18:01

consistently saves

18:05

reveals in order to, like,

18:07

give you a little twist. And

18:09

it prefers to do the twist rather than just, like,

18:11

tell you, hey, upfront. Here's what's happening. Here here's

18:13

what we're watching upfront. And then you can,

18:15

like, go through this emotional journey with the characters

18:18

together. It doesn't do that. Instead, it would rather be like,

18:21

surprise. And what was

18:23

incredibly frustrating about the show

18:27

is Often times many episodes would end

18:29

with a massive twist and then they

18:31

don't explain what happens in the

18:33

next episode. So it'll show you

18:35

this incredible visual of,

18:37

like, oh, look at this. And then, like, I'm,

18:39

like, oh, wow. I'm in Creek. And then I gotta watch the

18:41

next episode, and then they don't explain.

18:43

Or they explained very insufficiently what

18:46

happens the next episode. And

18:48

I found that to be frustrating. All that

18:50

said. All that said.

18:52

I agree with a lot of what you said about the positive

18:54

aspects of the show. Production design

18:56

is great. Like, it's it's very steam punk.

18:58

There's very few steam punk

19:01

shows on TV right now or

19:03

on streaming right now that are, like, really

19:05

popular. And so if you wanna get your

19:07

steampunk dose, this is one of the few places

19:09

to get it. I used to do

19:11

these box office Twitter spaces with someone

19:13

named Scott Mendelson over at the wrap,

19:15

and we were talking about,

19:17

like, drastic world, all those movies, the dress school movies, they all

19:19

did really well. And it's

19:21

like, why do those movies do well even though

19:23

they're terrible? And

19:25

and the answer is, at

19:27

the end of the day, those movies offer you

19:29

something that no other movies offer you, which

19:31

is dinosaurs in the real world. Right? Like,

19:33

no other movies or to, you know,

19:36

offer that thing. And so if you want

19:38

dinosaurs and there's only one game

19:40

in town. Which is the Jurassic World

19:42

franchise. Kind of the same thing with

19:44

steampunk in eighteen and eight. Yes. There's other

19:46

steampunk stuff, but, like, this is one of the most

19:48

popular ones. you like that aesthetic, you

19:50

like that feel, you like the sci fi

19:52

puzzle box mystery stuff, there's

19:54

very few shows doing it at

19:56

this level. And so you

19:58

might enjoy eighteen ninety nine. Also,

20:00

a lot of the performances are great. Even

20:02

as I think the storytelling is, like, completely

20:05

nonsensical and devolving into nonsense,

20:07

everyone in the show is still giving it

20:09

their all. Like, I I never felt

20:12

like these people aren't even trying. Like, everyone is, like,

20:14

kicking butt with their performances. And

20:17

so it's compelling for that

20:19

reason

20:19

alone, but To me,

20:22

I did not enjoy the show particularly

20:24

through season one. So Can we have a

20:26

quick gut check with Kim?

20:29

Yes. I felt at

20:31

the end of Dark season

20:33

one. I remember the final image and I

20:35

remember thinking, I did not want

20:37

this in season two

20:39

because I can barely understand what just

20:41

happened in season 1, and I don't need

20:43

this new level of trouble in

20:45

my life. And I have a

20:47

feeling that maybe because she

20:50

and I have been on the the

20:52

full journey of dark that we are

20:54

used to some of these feelings a little

20:56

bit more And it's not just

20:58

like a trust in the final product. It's part of

21:00

that, but maybe trust that the final

21:02

product includes a journey that feels like

21:04

this. I don't

21:04

know. That might be me project What

21:06

do you think Kim? Yeah. There is

21:09

something to that that the first season of

21:11

Dark, like

21:13

the first like, this first season of eighteen

21:15

ninety nine are both,

21:18

like, with dark by the

21:20

end, you understand that they had,

21:22

like, a massive, you

21:24

know, wall sized puzzle, and

21:26

they were showing you, like, this little

21:28

itty bitty center bit of it in

21:30

season one. And so It

21:33

feels like that's happening again with eighteen

21:35

ninety nine, but in with

21:37

Dark at least along the way, you

21:39

were already really invest

21:41

stayed in just that center piece.

21:44

And, like, there were like,

21:46

you pointed out exactly, Joy, like,

21:48

there were emotional payoffs throughout

21:50

that to me I was, like, already

21:52

in on. Like, I was in on just

21:54

this kid has gone missing and I really

21:56

want him reunited with his family. And,

21:58

like, the way that that's not that's, like,

22:01

the tiniest slice of the story, whereas in eighteen ninety nine,

22:03

I'm not sure that they were as successful

22:05

about getting you to care about

22:07

all of the different personal relationships

22:10

going on. I think exactly spot on because they

22:12

weren't they were just constantly confessing

22:14

to one another, not actually

22:17

empath able to empathize and understand

22:19

one another. Right. Because

22:22

in dark I mean, first

22:24

of all, the premise is dark, is there's child

22:26

that's vanished, and everyone's trying to figure out

22:28

what's going on. That is an extremely

22:31

understandable, relatable situation.

22:33

Right? Like, you may not have had a child damage, but, like,

22:35

you've read about the news countless times, you know

22:38

maybe you know someone for which 1 happen

22:40

or

22:40

whatever. Here,

22:42

this show takes place in eighteen ninety

22:44

nine. And if the question is, where is the

22:46

steam ship and is it going to get? In

22:48

your contact? Yeah. Exact

22:49

exactly. It's just it's just inherently

22:52

less relatable of a thing. And

22:54

then, like, everyone has these, like,

22:57

fairly outlandish backstories, I have to say, like,

22:59

just, like, really out there, like, extreme

23:01

back story, the show is much

23:03

more ambitious than dark. You know, to me,

23:05

it feels like. Like,

23:07

they're trying to create new world for every one of these

23:10

1. And It's

23:13

definitely much more grand visually and

23:15

in its, like, scope. I

23:17

think it's really ambitious. It's not I don't know if anything can

23:19

be as ambitious as dark in terms of the sci fi

23:21

concept that I don't wanna even say anything about because I think

23:23

it's kind of a spoiler. But Okay.

23:26

Well It

23:26

looks like you've had something to Yeah. Go ahead, Kim.

23:28

I was just gonna say, I do think that

23:31

you're right that it's

23:33

it has parallels to Westworld a little

23:36

bit in what 1 agree with

23:38

that parallel that you mentioned about

23:41

it's it almost seems sometimes like they're more interested

23:43

in hiding the

23:45

actual story from you than

23:48

like, building a really solid puzzle

23:50

boxy mystery thing, like, at times

23:52

where, like, similar to, like, Westworld season

23:54

two or three, where you find yourself kind

23:56

of asking, like, did you

23:58

need to, like, obscure that

24:01

from me for that long? Or

24:03

were were you just trying to elicit some

24:05

sort of shock from me? When

24:07

you finally let me know what's happening. I

24:09

don't mind. Like, it I think it is

24:11

a healthy feeling for a

24:13

show runner to want to be, like, to

24:16

take the the handkerchief

24:18

or whatever, the cloth off of the table

24:20

and, like, reveal, look at

24:22

this and for, you know, to

24:24

want the viewer to be like, whoa. Amazing.

24:26

I think the problem with Westworld, and to some

24:28

degree, with eighteen ninety nine, is, like, it can't

24:31

be just that for the whole

24:33

thing. You know? Like, or it can't be, like,

24:35

eighty percent that. It needs to be,

24:37

like, ten to twenty

24:39

percent that. And the other eighty percent is, like,

24:41

making me care about all these people on

24:43

the show. But anyway, we have

24:45

so much more to discuss. So

24:47

why don't we say that that is going to

24:49

be our non spoiler

24:52

discussion about eighteen ninety nine. That was a clip from the decoding

24:54

TV podcast. To hear the rest, go to podcast.

24:56

Decoding TV dot com and subscribe.

25:00

Thanks.