0:23

Hi Warriors , welcome to 1 in 3 , I'm

0:26

your host , Ingrid . I have brought you

0:28

multiple stories involving domestic

0:30

violence . Unfortunately

0:32

, some who have escaped the trauma

0:34

may be left with a sense of hopelessness

0:37

. The abuse may continue

0:39

past the end of the relationship , especially

0:41

when children are involved . Throughout

0:44

her lifelong struggle with domestic abuse

0:46

from her mother into later romantic

0:48

relationships , Cathy wondered

0:50

why this kept happening to her . Listen

0:54

as she shares what years of research

0:56

and self-reflection have helped her learn

0:58

about domestic violence victims

1:00

.

1:04

I realised after

1:06

my last journey through abuse . It

1:08

went to court and he

1:10

lied and there

1:12

was no justice . And

1:15

that was probably my lowest , lowest

1:17

, lowest point in all the abuse

1:19

that I had been through throughout my life . To

1:22

see that there was no accountability

1:24

for his actions was

1:27

just devastating . I

1:30

then took the opportunity to

1:32

reflect on my life and

1:35

to try and work out how

1:38

I kept ending up in these situations

1:40

. What was it that

1:42

kept me attracting

1:44

these people ? Now , there

1:47

were obvious reasons , like

1:49

with my mother , who was my

1:51

first abuser . I realised

1:54

, probably in my

1:56

30s , that she was mentally unwell

1:58

, so that was a factor for

2:01

the abuse . She was definitely

2:04

narcissistic and

2:06

she had multiple personality disorder

2:08

. She was very

2:11

aggressive and very violent , so

2:13

I understood her in that

2:16

she couldn't control that behaviour . It took me until

2:18

my 30s , but I realised

2:21

that she needed

2:23

help and until she got help

2:25

, I wasn't going to have a relationship

2:27

with her anymore . My

2:30

physical abuser it

2:33

was don't

2:35

get me wrong , there was still verbal

2:38

abuse there , but

2:40

that was so in my face . I

2:43

knew when I was going

2:46

to cop it , because there

2:48

were triggers , there were signs that he

2:51

would just lose it and I

2:55

would end up on the end of his

2:57

fist or whatever . So

3:00

I could predict

3:02

that . And certainly

3:04

after that relationship I

3:07

could spot someone who was physically abusive

3:09

a mile away . Certain

3:12

mannerisms , certain ways

3:15

that they spoke . I just went

3:17

, whoa , okay , now I see

3:19

that and I'll steer

3:21

clear of that . With

3:25

the last relationship

3:28

it was

3:30

more sneaky and

3:32

I did not understand

3:34

the

3:36

power of psychological

3:39

abuse , coercive control

3:41

and emotional abuse . I

3:44

just didn't realise that that was

3:46

even a factor

3:48

and

3:52

that , for me , played out . That's

3:55

where my learning started to take place

3:57

. I really started to

4:00

look at the

4:03

characteristics of these

4:06

people that I'd been in relationships

4:08

with . So I wanted to know

4:10

why I kept attracting

4:13

them . And

4:15

it was quite simple really . At

4:17

the end of the day I realised I was attracting

4:20

them because

4:23

I didn't understand the

4:25

indicators for that

4:27

abuse . I

4:29

accepted my mother's

4:31

behaviour because she was my mother and

4:34

I thought I wanted a relationship

4:36

with her more than I wanted

4:38

anything . So I

4:41

accepted that for way too long . My

4:45

second relationship I stayed in that because

4:47

my need to have a family

4:49

overwrote my own

4:51

self value . And

4:54

my third relationship I simply

4:56

stayed in it because I didn't understand

4:59

what it was and

5:01

I kept fighting to

5:04

get that because

5:06

when it was good , it was really good and I

5:08

just believed that it would stay

5:10

that way . So

5:13

I kept fighting for that and

5:15

I stayed in that for way too long because

5:18

I had this

5:20

belief and I realised through

5:22

my study I

5:25

actually healed myself which

5:27

was so powerful . Looking

5:29

at the reasons why I attracted

5:32

these people , firstly

5:34

, they

5:37

need somebody who is extremely forgiving

5:39

. So you have to

5:41

be someone who is it

5:44

sounds terrible , but easily

5:47

manipulated . Because

5:50

of your very loving , forgiving

5:52

nature , they feel like

5:54

they can manipulate you into

5:56

any situation , they can excuse

5:58

any situation and

6:01

you will accept it until

6:04

, of course , you don't , and then it's all your fault

6:06

. So

6:08

I mean that

6:10

you play a

6:12

role in this is

6:14

really really hard , but

6:18

you do , in that you

6:21

deserve somebody who is as equally

6:23

loving , giving , caring

6:25

as you are . And

6:28

if you don't have

6:30

that , if you start excusing

6:33

those red flags in the beginning , it

6:36

will just escalate and you will keep

6:38

attracting that person , or just

6:40

their behaviour will get more and more and more

6:42

. And that goes for any

6:44

relationship , that goes for friendships

6:47

, it goes for work , colleagues , family

6:50

and , you know , personal

6:52

relationships . So you can

6:54

have an abuser in any given

6:56

situation . So , understanding

6:58

that you and your boundaries

7:01

play a role

7:03

in this , because

7:05

, if you , I'm

7:07

not saying that you

7:10

deserve it , not by any

7:12

means . Nobody deserves to be abused

7:16

or taken

7:18

advantage of but this

7:20

person saw your ability

7:24

to love as a weakness

7:26

. They saw

7:28

you as somebody easy to control and

7:30

manipulate and dominate , and

7:33

that's what they did . I

7:36

think we accept these situations

7:38

for a lot of reasons . I've spoken to a lot

7:40

of domestic violence victims and

7:43

it ranges from I

7:47

need to stay because when

7:49

I go , that person

7:52

will abuse , when my children visit , they

7:54

will be abused , so they stay to protect

7:56

their children . People

8:00

stay , like my own reasons , because

8:02

I valued , I

8:04

wanted that relationship or I valued

8:06

that nucleus more

8:09

than I did myself . People

8:12

stay because of pets , you

8:14

know . I know one lady had 12 horses

8:16

and she said what do I do ? Where

8:19

do I go ? I can't go anywhere

8:21

. Don't tell me to go , don't tell me

8:23

to leave , because my

8:25

life , you know , so I just

8:28

can't do it . People

8:31

stay for many , many , many different reasons

8:33

and unless you've

8:35

walked in their shoes , you

8:37

won't understand why they stay

8:40

. But I can tell you that

8:42

if we can stop people from getting

8:44

into those relationships in the first place

8:46

. That is the

8:49

key . And to do that , I

8:51

think we need to work on our

8:53

own self . We need to

8:55

work on our own boundaries and

8:58

, to start off with , you really need

9:00

to understand who you are . So

9:03

what are your highest core values

9:05

? If you choose

9:07

three of

9:09

your highest core values , you

9:12

want to find that the person that you're with

9:14

has the same , because

9:16

your values drive your behaviour

9:19

. They drive who you are inside

9:22

. And if your highest value

9:24

is commitment and this person

9:26

never wants to get married , I

9:28

mean sure they might change their mind one day . But

9:30

why are you wasting your time when there's

9:33

the right person out there who

9:35

definitely wants commitment ? You

9:37

know we need to be

9:39

on the same page as our

9:41

partner with our values . That's the

9:43

first thing that you need to look for . And

9:46

then you need to do have

9:49

a look at . Don't just miss

9:51

the red flags . And

9:53

if the red flags come in , if

9:55

they're really good at hiding it and they come in six

9:58

, seven years into the relationship

10:01

, when you're settled , you

10:03

know you've bought a house , you have a couple of children

10:05

and all of a sudden you've woken up with a monster

10:07

who's just been able

10:09

to keep it , then you're going to want to stay and

10:12

that's why they do it Some of them . That's

10:14

why they do it . That's

10:17

even then . That's

10:19

when you need to have your boundaries . That's when

10:21

you need to say no . No

10:24

, you have a choice in this . If

10:27

you're going to treat me this way , I'm

10:30

not going to put up with it . So

10:32

now I'm going to put it back on you change your behavior

10:35

or let

10:37

them go and grow . Abuses

10:39

will behave in very

10:41

different ways . They're not all the same

10:44

. They're not all painted with the same brush

10:47

. Like you will have somebody who is

10:49

outright nasty

10:52

. Like you , meet them and they're talking

10:54

to their partner like absolute

10:56

garbage . And I don't

10:58

discriminate between male and female either

11:01

. There are some really nasty

11:03

, nasty women out there who

11:06

keep their children from the father and then

11:08

say that it's a father's problem

11:11

, and these children

11:13

grow up without their dad because this person

11:15

is just cruel , for

11:17

one of the better word they use are children as pawns

11:20

. You

11:23

know , I just I honestly think , recognizing

11:26

those red flags , knowing

11:28

what they are , knowing what emotional

11:30

abuse , psychological abuse and

11:34

coercive control , knowing those indicators

11:36

and being

11:38

very aware of it , I

11:41

probably swung the other

11:43

way , where I saw everyone

11:45

in this light of , oh

11:47

, you know you're . Oh

11:49

, I can see some emotional abuse there

11:52

and I became really

11:54

quite judgy . Thankfully

11:57

, I've swung back into the middle now and

11:59

I realized that we're all . There

12:02

are people out there that are operating through their

12:04

own experiences that don't have

12:06

the capacity to meet

12:08

you at the same level , and that's

12:10

okay . That doesn't mean that they won't . That's

12:13

not abuse the

12:15

red flags that

12:17

you have

12:19

to view them , see

12:22

them for what they are and

12:25

then act on it . But

12:27

also be prepared that

12:29

some people make mistakes and

12:32

they can change that behavior

12:34

. And that's one of the biggest lessons

12:37

that I learned is that an abuser

12:40

will not change

12:42

. They'll tell you they're going to

12:44

change , but they will come back

12:47

and they will do that behavior

12:49

in a different way . Say , if they're financially

12:51

abusive . When you meet them , you

12:54

know you might just think they're

12:56

excuse my language , but think they're a

12:58

tight ass , you know , but in

13:00

actual fact they're quite financially

13:03

controlling and it gets

13:06

into your relationship where it

13:08

affects what you do . You

13:11

might be able to say to them

13:13

you know , this is going

13:15

to destroy our relationships . That

13:17

needs to change . And they go okay , I

13:19

can change . And all

13:22

of a sudden you see that they're letting

13:24

go and they're being less

13:26

financially abusive , but

13:29

then they start being

13:31

verbally abusive . So

13:33

an abuser will often switch areas

13:36

to keep you

13:38

off guard , to keep you guessing

13:40

what they're doing . It's

13:44

all . Sometimes it's just this game that

13:47

they play in . You

13:50

are so confused and

13:52

confusion is actually a sign that you are

13:54

being abused . If you're confused in

13:57

your relationship , if you don't understand

13:59

why they're talking to you

14:01

this way , why they're upset

14:03

, why you can never please

14:05

them , if

14:08

you have confusion , that is definitely

14:11

an indicator that you are in an

14:13

abusive situation . I

14:15

think we need to teach our children red

14:18

flags . I think we need to

14:20

teach our children what

14:23

they call values are . We

14:25

need for them to have a very healthy

14:28

, supportive lifestyle

14:30

of themselves so

14:34

that they attract to them a

14:38

person that is going to love them the way that they

14:40

deserve . Often

14:42

we will attract

14:44

people if

14:46

we have really strong , firm boundaries

14:48

. We won't attract an

14:52

abuser . We might for a minute , but

14:54

we will quickly see it and our energy

14:57

will just be like go away

14:59

, you know , and

15:01

they won't come any closer . I

15:03

found that I just don't have that anymore

15:07

. I'll see

15:09

them and I'll quickly think , yeah , I

15:11

don't want anything to do with you and I'll remove

15:13

myself from that situation

15:16

. That doesn't mean that I won't

15:18

give it a bit more time . I

15:20

went through and I actually learnt and

15:25

the different types of narcissists

15:27

that are out there , which I never knew . That

15:31

was a huge eye-opener for

15:33

me to see the

15:36

different types of people

15:38

. One of them is

15:41

very outgoing , like really

15:43

outgoing . So the life of the party and

15:46

love bombs you , all the things that

15:48

women think oh , this

15:50

person just absolutely adores

15:52

me . They put me on this pedestal . But

15:56

one of the indicators with them is that they

15:58

can't have deep and meaningful

16:00

conversations . So if you

16:02

ever get into and

16:04

life will do this to you , you know you'll

16:07

get into trouble times

16:09

. This person can't be

16:11

there for you . They just

16:13

can't be completely there for you , or

16:15

they'll switch and they'll become

16:18

nasty , you know so that they

16:20

can't sustain that love bombing

16:23

. Because that's exactly what it is . It's

16:25

love bombing . It's

16:28

not love at first sight , which

16:30

I do believe in , to be honest , but

16:33

the love bombing is . It's

16:36

not a sustainable behaviour . So

16:39

they'll do it for as long as they , until

16:42

they get you , and then

16:44

the phone calls will stop , or

16:46

the gifts will stop , or

16:48

the . You know even the way , the

16:50

nice way they speak to you will stop

16:52

. So , understanding

16:54

that abusers

16:58

will use different methods and

17:00

knowing all of those methods

17:02

will keep you aware

17:04

of if

17:07

you're attracting the wrong person into your life

17:09

. So I

17:11

do a little presentation

17:13

where I go through . You know what

17:15

the definition of an abuser is , what

17:18

types of people make up an abusive relationship

17:21

. So you can have two

17:24

narcissists in a relationship . That

17:28

will be explosive . I've actually seen it . They

17:30

just bounce off each

17:32

other and it's like whoa , why are you guys

17:34

? Even you know , but they're happy being miserable

17:37

together . So you know

17:39

that's their choice . Do

17:42

you think an abuser can change ? Well , I

17:44

do think that an abuser

17:47

can change , but

17:49

it has to be . They

17:53

have to sustain the change . I've

17:55

seen somebody do it and

17:58

I've also seen people who can't , just

18:00

cannot and will never change . But

18:03

they have to sustain that change

18:05

for themselves and

18:07

they have to consistently not do it . So

18:09

if you're with somebody who's an

18:12

alcoholic , for example , and

18:14

they drink because they've

18:16

had a lot of tragedy and they can't , they

18:18

numb themselves , I can't stand it

18:20

anymore . So they just keep drinking and

18:24

you say to them this relationship

18:26

is is going to finish , if you

18:28

don't stop drinking because you

18:30

know it's affecting us and

18:33

that person stops , so they're

18:35

abusive while they're drinking , but then

18:37

all of a sudden they stop and

18:39

they change that behavior , that can actually

18:41

happen . But

18:44

then there are people that are

18:46

born narcissistic . Well

18:49

, the jury's out with their born narcissistic

18:51

or something happens and they shut down . I

18:54

don't really know how they become narcissistic

18:56

. I

18:59

don't really . It doesn't what's

19:02

the word . I don't really

19:05

care how they become narcissistic

19:07

. I

19:09

just see them as people that are

19:12

out to the world , owes them

19:14

something . But in a perfect world we would

19:16

have an island where we could . We

19:18

could just put all these narcissistic people

19:20

and say go on , fight to be the

19:23

leader , fight to be the top one

19:26

, treat each other the way

19:28

that you want to , but leave

19:30

us alone . I

19:33

also do like what

19:36

role we play , as I said

19:38

before , you know , with our boundaries and

19:40

being this overly

19:42

loving , overly giving , overly

19:44

forgiving person with the

19:46

right person . There's nothing wrong with that

19:49

if they're giving you the same . I

19:52

don't mean that they have to be the same as you

19:54

, but you have to have . It

19:56

has to be reciprocated . I

19:59

go through what are red and green flags when

20:01

you're dating , and I also have a

20:03

red and green flag quiz and I've had people

20:05

that have had all green flags and

20:08

I've had people that have had a couple of green

20:10

and I'm like , well , that's . You know what you

20:12

need to work on and you know , you

20:15

can see the area within your

20:17

relationship that needs some work , and all

20:19

relationships go through hard times , it

20:21

doesn't matter how good they are . They all

20:23

have ups and downs , because that's just

20:25

life . But

20:28

understanding whether it's abusive

20:30

or not really really helps , and

20:33

whether or not you can accept what

20:35

those red flags are , it's a deal

20:37

breaker for you , because we all have our own

20:39

deal breakers . We all

20:42

have our different things that we will

20:44

accept . You know , some people

20:46

will never , ever

20:48

, ever accept somebody cheating , whereas

20:50

other people are happy to introduce other

20:53

people into their relationships . So

20:56

we're all different and I think

20:58

that we need to take

21:00

that into account as well when we're looking

21:02

into relationships . And

21:04

then I've got how do you help yourself or

21:07

someone to leave safely ? I

21:10

truly believe that we can if

21:13

we educate our children around

21:16

the areas of abuse and what abuse

21:18

looks like and what a healthy relationship

21:20

looks like . That's where we really

21:22

need to start . That's where

21:25

we need to change the mindset of

21:27

beautiful , loving people

21:29

and what they deserve and who

21:31

they need to be with . We

21:34

often I

21:36

realize that an empath is

21:38

drawn to a narcissist because

21:40

we have a deep desire instinctually

21:44

to help people , to fix

21:47

them , and we see

21:49

in them what's missing and

21:52

we think that we can help , and

21:54

that is just . I

21:56

look at that now and

21:58

I think why do I want

22:00

somebody I need to fix ? No

22:02

, I don't , I don't need

22:05

anybody that I need to fix . I

22:07

want somebody that will come to

22:09

me with their A game and I will

22:12

come to them with my A game . That

22:14

doesn't mean physically

22:16

like I suffer terribly

22:19

at the moment from headaches , but

22:22

I still know that I'm

22:24

enough to have

22:27

somebody in my life that will bring

22:29

their A game and I have a lot to

22:31

give someone . So

22:33

that I hope that doesn't sound arrogant

22:35

. I don't mean for it to , but I

22:38

just think that we all have a

22:42

lot to give people and

22:45

give it to the right person . Give it to somebody

22:47

that will respect it , cherish it and love

22:49

it , because you only get one

22:51

heart and you need someone who's going to look

22:54

after that . I mentioned

22:56

that my mother was extremely

22:59

violent , that she was

23:01

extremely or extremely abusive . Yes

23:04

, she was violent . She

23:06

was abusive to my father from

23:09

a very young age . I can remember them

23:11

fighting and they both

23:14

end up with black eyes . And

23:16

my father said to me recently

23:20

how ashamed he was that

23:22

he actually hit a woman

23:24

. My father's a very honourable

23:26

man and

23:29

he said I've never hit

23:31

a woman since . And

23:33

I said to him Dad , have you heard of reactive

23:35

abuse ? He said

23:37

I would hit her when she'd hit

23:39

me . I said do you think that maybe

23:42

that was you protecting yourself

23:44

Like ? I

23:46

think people can push you

23:48

to a point past

23:51

what you believe that you

23:53

are capable of , and I think he was a

23:55

classic example of . Should

23:59

he have walked away ? Absolutely ? Should

24:01

he have hit her back

24:03

? No , he shouldn't have . But

24:07

did she push him to a point where

24:09

he lost himself ? I believe

24:11

so , and

24:15

you'd have to know my mother to

24:17

know what that was like , because it was

24:19

extremely , extremely

24:22

toxic that she would do that . I

24:25

don't by any means advocate men hitting

24:27

women , because I think we are

24:29

the smaller

24:32

sex , but I

24:34

do know that with reactive abuse

24:36

you can do things that you

24:38

would never normally do , like

24:41

I know that in one of my relationships

24:43

I would slam a door and

24:45

swear and call

24:48

him names to shut it

24:50

down . Now I don't speak to anyone

24:53

like that . Well , I do , obviously , but

24:55

that was the only

24:57

circumstance that I've ever spoken to

24:59

anyone like that and

25:01

it took me a long time to forgive myself

25:04

for that . I realized I

25:06

was the nutty one . You know that I

25:08

was the issue in the relationship

25:11

. It's crazy

25:13

how they can push

25:15

people to a point

25:17

where you do and say things

25:19

that you normally wouldn't , and

25:22

being able to forgive yourself for

25:24

that and realizing it was just part of it . I

25:26

mean , I've known of abusers that

25:29

drink drive

25:31

and they've gotten their partner

25:33

, who would never drink drive

25:35

, to drive them home when

25:37

they've had too many to drink . And

25:39

then it's their way of saying , see

25:42

, you're as bad as I am , so

25:45

that they can get you on that level playing

25:47

field . So reactive

25:49

abuse is a real thing

25:52

that they

25:54

will use against you to make

25:56

you feel like you are just as bad as

25:58

they are . But it is just

26:00

reactive

26:03

abuse . It's not you being abusive

26:05

. You need to look at your other relationships and see whether

26:08

you like that in any others as well

26:10

. So I mean

26:13

, as I said before , I actually

26:16

heal myself from doing

26:18

all of this research and

26:21

knowing the whole

26:23

circle of abuse

26:26

and what's in it , and people present

26:30

themselves differently in

26:32

that abusive arena and

26:35

they can be abusive

26:37

in many different ways , in many different ways on

26:39

any given day , and

26:42

it's just knowing what you've got

26:44

in front of you . So

26:48

, yeah , I'm very proud of what I've created

26:50

. From what I've been through

26:52

and knowing those red

26:55

and green flags will certainly

26:58

help anyone

27:00

to be able to navigate

27:03

their relationship , to see

27:05

what it's like and

27:08

see . They're just basic questions

27:10

that you know . When

27:13

you look at it , you'll be able

27:15

to see if that person is . It's

27:19

a series of 50 questions

27:21

52

27:24

, sorry and by the end of

27:26

it you'll see if you've got a balanced relationship

27:29

or not . Yes

27:31

, well , I also . I had somebody

27:35

say to me oh , it makes me look at myself

27:37

too . You know what I'm doing

27:39

in this relationship . So

27:41

it not only do you look at the person

27:43

that you're with , but you look at your own behavior

27:45

as well .

27:47

Definitely yes

27:49

, and I have . Actually , I have a friend

27:51

who just recently reached out to

27:53

me and she had been in

27:55

a previously verbally

27:58

, emotionally , financially abusive relationship

28:00

and she just messaged me and she

28:02

said you're never going to believe it . I just

28:04

broke up with another one . I got

28:06

into it again . She's very

28:09

intelligent , she's been through therapy . She actually

28:11

knew this individual's ex from

28:13

years ago who had described all of this

28:16

, and she didn't believe that ex at the

28:18

time and I said

28:20

don't beat yourself up , you know , they're

28:23

very , they know what they're

28:25

doing . And yes

28:28

, and I said

28:30

you know , although you're coming from

28:32

experience and therapy and a lot of self-evaluation

28:35

and a lot of self-reflection and

28:37

you think I will never put up with that again

28:39

. At the same respect , I think

28:41

those of us who have been through this trauma

28:44

are also wanting to prove

28:46

like I can find I'm

28:48

capable of loving again and I

28:50

can find that person who is

28:53

supposed to love me the way they're supposed

28:55

to love me . And you may , like you

28:57

said , overlook some of these red flags

28:59

or even perhaps compare

29:02

it to . Well , this guy

29:04

or girl or whomever , is not

29:06

doing things as badly as

29:08

the previous partner , so maybe it's not

29:10

that big of a red flag .

29:14

I think in your friend's case , what

29:16

I would be looking at is that

29:18

she recognised it in

29:21

the second go , you know , and

29:23

the more we do that , the

29:26

better we become at

29:28

realising hey

29:30

, no , I'm just . I'm just not doing

29:33

this , you know you will

29:36

. I attract abuses again

29:38

, absolutely like they're everywhere

29:40

and but

29:42

they're not going to stay in my field

29:45

for long because I have too much self-respect

29:48

to allow that to happen

29:50

anymore . And I think I

29:52

think that's the difference you

29:55

can want and we all

29:57

deserve . I don't believe anyone is

29:59

meant to be on this planet alone . That's

30:02

just my opinion , and

30:04

we all deserve healthy , loving relationships

30:06

and I think I'm

30:09

not going to stop until I find

30:12

that person . And

30:14

it's not going to be perfect I mean , no relationship is

30:17

perfect but there will be

30:19

no abuse . That's the difference .

30:23

And yes , and that's the big , the big difference

30:25

. And , like you said , as long as that other

30:27

person is reciprocating

30:30

. So if you feel that

30:32

, oh , this , this new partner did not communicate well with

30:34

me , communicate well with me , that's a red flag

30:36

, or am I being too judgy or what is it ? But

30:38

if you bring that , if you're able to communicate

30:40

with that individual and say this

30:43

isn't working for me , and they , they

30:45

think , oh my gosh , I didn't even recognise I

30:47

was doing that , let me fix that . And

30:50

as long as you're working together , then it's okay

30:52

.

30:53

Let me fix that . That is such

30:55

a powerful statement . Somebody

30:58

who owns their

31:00

behaviour , like , for

31:04

example , there . There are people out there that

31:06

talk over the top of each other and

31:08

they're happy to do that . They're in

31:10

a family , they grew up with that . But

31:12

for other people that might be seen as the

31:14

red flag , like if you say to them

31:16

like I feel like I'm not talking over the top

31:19

of me , can you change

31:21

that ? And they go , oh , my goodness , you

31:23

know they don't have to do it that way . But like

31:25

, oh , yes , I'll certainly try

31:27

. They're not being abusive , it's

31:29

a habit that they have . But we

31:32

can certainly see it as a red flag , because

31:34

a red flag is actually anything that

31:37

really upsets you

31:39

. And the difference

31:41

is if you say to them I

31:43

don't like it when you put me down

31:45

in in a joking way , you

31:48

know , maybe you've had a lot of that and you just you

31:50

don't like it , and this person

31:52

changes that behaviour

31:54

, then you've got yourself somebody

31:56

who's not abusive . But

31:59

so that's where the differences

32:01

come in . And being able to find

32:03

someone who you can communicate

32:05

with and you can both grow together

32:08

, that's definitely

32:10

the the way to go . But good

32:13

on your friend for actually seeing

32:16

that the second time around . I mean we can kick

32:18

ourselves to the cows come home , go . Oh God

32:20

, I've done it again . Fortunately , at the moment

32:22

, domestic violent victims

32:25

recognise it from what

32:27

they've been through , and we've all been

32:29

through different trauma and we've all

32:31

had different triggers . I

32:34

want to make it that you recognise it

32:36

before you have to go through that . You

32:39

know and this is where our children come in , teaching

32:42

them what a healthy , loving

32:44

relationship looks like as opposed to

32:46

what it doesn't .

32:49

Absolutely , because it is difficult Once you are

32:51

in it . It is difficult for all

32:54

the variety of reasons to get out

32:56

, and you even mentioned

32:58

at the beginning , even

33:00

when you are able to remove

33:02

yourself from that situation safely and

33:05

your family or whomever else could be involved

33:07

, there is often a lack of justice

33:09

and there's you know , the repercussions

33:12

for the abuser it doesn't

33:14

match it . Rarely

33:16

, I will say , there have been instances

33:19

where it may have , but it rarely matches

33:21

what they've done .

33:25

Like . I am gobsmacked

33:28

at what they get away with . It

33:30

is so criminal that

33:33

the victim needs to prove

33:35

that the abuser has done

33:37

this To

33:40

me . You have gone

33:42

through abuse . You

33:45

obviously the courts need the

33:47

proof , but we need to get better

33:49

at being able to hold people

33:51

accountable . We need

33:54

to be able to get

33:56

rid of that . He said she said

33:58

abuse Because they're

34:00

bringing in these coercive control

34:03

laws which in the UK bring up to 14

34:05

years in jail . But you have

34:07

to be able to prove it and

34:10

this is where it gets really , really hard

34:12

. I mean , they can put a death threat

34:14

on your computer , but

34:16

prove they did it . All they have

34:18

to do is say no one didn't . You

34:20

know it's in your home

34:22

. You might be still

34:25

in the house with them . It's

34:28

just ridiculous . I

34:30

mean , they have probable cause , but

34:32

sometimes

34:35

it's just it's

34:37

mind blowing what they get away with and

34:39

how deceitful they can be

34:41

around other people . One

34:44

of the best things that I would tell people

34:46

is don't hide

34:49

who that person is

34:51

. Don't

34:53

protect them , because

34:56

at the end of the day , if

34:59

you've made them out to be this

35:02

really nice person

35:04

because you don't want to air your laundry and

35:06

I get that that's

35:08

what people see and that's what people

35:10

will judge them on and

35:12

they will think then you'll , then

35:15

you have to fight justice

35:17

for people to see who

35:19

that person really is . So

35:21

not only have you been abused , but

35:24

they're supporting the abuser . You

35:27

know it's really . We

35:30

really need to get better somehow at

35:32

doing that . This is what I mean by some

35:34

abusers can change , if

35:36

some , if both parents can put their

35:39

differences aside and put the children first

35:41

. And you know the

35:43

rules are you don't talk

35:45

to mommy like that , you don't talk

35:47

to daddy like that . We are respectful

35:49

around our children . It

35:52

can work , but I think in the best interest

35:54

of the children if they can do it amicably

35:57

and some of the things that they have here

35:59

in Australia now they have a

36:02

forum that

36:04

has a mediator on it , so

36:07

you can go on to this . You can do

36:09

all your chatting through a mediator

36:11

, which I think is fantastic

36:14

because it stops the games . I

36:16

still see parents that still

36:19

manipulate the situation

36:21

just to you know , stir

36:23

the other parent and it's

36:26

wrong . The games

36:28

they play is just ridiculous . There's no

36:30

need for it . I really

36:32

there are some

36:34

cases where I think the abuse is so

36:37

bad that the other parent shouldn't be

36:39

allowed to see the children just because

36:41

of the way that they're manipulating

36:44

the other . They're using their children

36:46

as pawns in that situation

36:49

. So each I

36:51

guess what I'm saying is sometimes they

36:54

can do it and other times they can't

36:57

. And this is where you

36:59

will see that abuser that can't

37:01

change . They're going to carry

37:03

that abuse on through the children . The

37:06

abuser that can change they're

37:08

the ones that will be

37:10

amicable about it . So

37:13

it's just recognizing that person

37:15

and the games that they play and knowing

37:18

you know that if somebody's

37:20

playing games during your relationship

37:23

, they're going to

37:25

keep playing them no matter what

37:27

, and that's extremely

37:29

hard . It's so hard

37:31

to raise children in that environment

37:34

because the other spin-off

37:36

from that too is children

37:38

learn good and bad from their parents

37:40

, you know . So they're learning

37:43

. If you're with somebody who

37:45

just say they lie all the

37:47

time and you end up

37:49

splitting , your children will

37:52

learn that that is something that they

37:54

can use to in that

37:56

relationship . They don't see any . This is

37:58

a person that loves them or

38:00

show . It may be a not

38:03

a healthy love , but

38:05

it's supposed to be somebody

38:07

who cares for them . So they do see

38:09

those behaviors and they do

38:11

pick them up sometimes and

38:14

that's where you

38:16

know the other parent as

38:18

hard as they try , they

38:21

need to make up for that lack as well

38:23

. You know they will come

38:25

in and say you've got all

38:27

great boundaries , great rules your

38:29

children have . You

38:33

know they're deeply loved with

38:35

you . Don't say yes

38:37

to everything . They know that they can't

38:39

have certain things and

38:41

you've got your firm but your fair and

38:44

the other parent . It's just a circus . You

38:47

know they can have whatever they want whenever

38:50

they want . You don't say no

38:52

to them . So when they go to the parent , that's firm

38:54

, then it's fair . They're going to act up

38:56

because , hang on , I can get

38:58

whatever I want over here , but

39:00

I can't get what I want over here . See

39:04

to me , that in itself is

39:06

abusive . The

39:10

child is not in

39:13

the best environment there at all

39:15

. It's hard , it's really hard

39:17

. I don't know that

39:19

we have the answer other than to not

39:21

get in that relationship in the

39:23

first place , and

39:25

you know you wouldn't take

39:28

away your children for the world either . So

39:30

I think , looking at our future

39:32

generations , being able to

39:34

get them to get into

39:37

healthy , loving relationships , that's what

39:39

you're trying to do , right ?

39:40

You're trying to get into schools and give your

39:42

presentation For sure

39:44

, yes , definitely . So

39:47

, just speaking of your presentation

39:49

, if somebody were to want to see

39:51

it , how would they get to that ?

39:55

If you go onto a Facebook

39:57

page called A Survivor's

39:59

Suggestions I

40:02

often haven't done one for a while

40:04

, but I do a presentation once a month

40:06

. There's a red and green flag

40:09

. You can do that for $10

40:11

, just on your own . It's just recorded

40:13

. If you want my whole presentation

40:16

, just PM me and

40:18

I'll set up one . I

40:21

was trying to do one once

40:23

a month where I would just

40:25

sit with people

40:27

, but I've sort of been a bit slack

40:29

. Yeah

40:31

, just go onto a Survivor's Suggestions

40:34

and PM me .

40:36

Okay , and I think I'll . I have to double check

40:38

, but I think you do have those links on the website

40:41

for this podcast as well

40:43

, so I think that people may be able to . If

40:45

they can't recall the name of a survivor's

40:48

suggestions , if they go to the website , I think they

40:50

are able to click on that and get straight

40:52

to your page . But I'll double check

40:54

that .

40:55

Oh , thank you . Thank you so much . When

40:58

we come out of these relationships , we

41:01

I

41:03

truly believe for myself

41:06

that I weren't attracted again . But

41:09

you know , I'm human

41:12

too and abuse

41:14

is a really good at putting

41:16

on a mask and fooling people

41:19

. So having

41:22

the having

41:24

the knowledge of what abuse is

41:26

and how it happens protects

41:29

you from getting into that . But

41:32

ultimately it comes down

41:34

to you and what you

41:36

will accept and what you won't , what

41:39

your deal breakers are and , if

41:41

you're not being treated right , having

41:44

the courage to go . I'm

41:47

not doing this . I deserve better and

41:49

we all deserve to be loved unconditionally

41:52

, and that's you

41:55

, and your partner deserves the

41:57

same .

42:00

Yes , absolutely . Thank you so

42:03

much . I think this , this episode , is so

42:05

helpful because anyone

42:07

who's been listening consistently , they hear

42:09

these stories over and over again

42:11

, some with a good or

42:13

happier ending than others . But

42:16

you know , there's the constant theme

42:18

of how did this individual end up in this relationship

42:20

in the first place ? So I think this is so

42:22

important to hear because

42:25

, like you said , the best way to fight

42:28

domestic violence is to prevent

42:30

it in the first place .

42:32

Absolutely , absolutely

42:35

. It's so devastating

42:37

being in a domestic violence

42:40

situation . It's

42:42

. It is so hard

42:44

on your soul and your heart and

42:46

your self confidence

42:49

. You really do

42:51

and I hate the word , but you really do become

42:53

a victim and you

42:56

have triggers then that

42:58

will probably

43:01

carry you through the rest

43:03

of your life . You know things that will

43:08

trigger you , but

43:10

not somebody else . So every domestic

43:12

violence situation is different . What

43:16

that abuser brings to the table

43:18

and we walk

43:21

out of there Well , I

43:23

know I certainly did as

43:25

a shell of who I was . I

43:27

was completely battered emotionally

43:30

. I

43:32

didn't even recognize the person that

43:34

was there and the abuse was so

43:36

severe . In the end , remembering

43:39

my name was too

43:41

hard . I was just

43:43

a complete mess and

43:47

it took a lot to fight back . And I think

43:49

that's one of the things that abusers don't

43:51

realize is that

43:54

often victims are

43:56

beautiful , loving , caring

43:59

, giving , forgiving people . But

44:01

they're also strong as hell because

44:03

they've gone through this abuse and

44:05

they're still standing and

44:08

they're fighters . And once

44:10

you kick in that fighting

44:12

spirit and realize

44:14

and stand up for yourself and

44:17

fight back to get yourself

44:19

back , you'll never be the person that

44:21

you were before you walked into that relationship

44:24

. You will actually be

44:26

a

44:29

stronger person for

44:31

it . Hopefully , you come

44:33

out jaded , a

44:36

little bit untrusting

44:39

or a lot . We

44:41

don't trust , we

44:44

overanalyze Well

44:46

, this is I'm saying we , but I definitely

44:49

know that I was and

44:52

then the pendulum will swing and

44:54

eventually you'll end up being a

44:57

stronger version of yourself and then

44:59

you'll be somebody who , if you learn

45:01

from it and you can understand

45:04

it while you went through it and

45:06

I'm not talking about childhood abuse , because

45:08

I think that's something completely different

45:11

but if you

45:13

can understand why

45:16

this happened and

45:18

that you will never let it happen again

45:20

, how you can avoid it , then

45:24

your future will be much

45:26

better and in our own health

45:28

. We need to look at the relationships we're in .

45:32

I agree . Well , and again

45:34

, if people want to check out your presentation

45:36

, just look at the links on the website and we'll

45:38

have that all updated . But

45:40

, kathy , thank you for coming on again . It's

45:45

been a pleasure it has as always as

45:47

always , I love it , so thank you again

45:49

.

45:50

Thank you for having me .

45:51

You have a great Many

45:54

thanks to Kathy for sharing her personal

45:56

struggles and insights with us

45:58

. I'm going to be taking

46:00

the next two weeks off to spend time

46:02

with family and friends for the holidays . I

46:05

hope and pray you have a happy and safe

46:07

holiday season as well . I

46:09

will be back the second week in January

46:11

with a personal story submitted by

46:14

Haley . Until then , stay

46:16

strong and wherever you are

46:18

in your journey , always remember

46:21

you are not alone

46:23

. Find

46:25

more information , register as a guest

46:27

or leave a review by going to the website

46:30

oneandthreepodcastcom . That's

46:32

the number one . I am the number

46:34

three podcastcom . Follow

46:37

one and three on Instagram , facebook

46:39

and Twitter at one and three podcast

46:41

. To help me out , please remember

46:43

to rate , review and subscribe . One

46:46

and three is a.5 . Pinoy production

46:48

music written and performed

46:50

by Tim Crow .