0:00

in to me there's kind of a bitter sweet last

0:02

worldliness to it i feel like it's

0:04

the way people may be used to feel when they were like

0:06

in my day we got ice from the iceman

0:08

and they kind of audibly

0:20

he usually you're wrong about the show

0:22

where we talk about great moments

0:25

and daytime tv history yeah

0:29

with me today is will pass ken

0:31

from decoder ring hello

0:33

hi i'm so happy to be thank you

0:35

so much for being here with us i love

0:37

your show though match

0:40

and it's become the thing

0:42

with my friends lately i've been listening

0:44

to just a bunch of episodes and

0:46

celebration of you're coming here because you're not going

0:48

to quiz me on them as has become

0:50

a joke around like i listened to a decoder

0:52

ring the other day about how muzak used to

0:55

be made or say that have been other going

0:57

snail idealists and any other shows

0:59

and us like not right now i

1:02

have to say i'm sure that people

1:04

tell you the south a lot but i have the the

1:06

and to see that one day i'll be like today

1:08

and decoder ring north dakota

1:10

what is it slide do that i would

1:12

do that i can also be get april fools

1:15

sometimes i like to think that

1:17

you're also same decoder rings i do

1:19

say decoder and i have a problem

1:21

with it actually like i i

1:23

noticed especially when a new ads because it's when

1:25

i say the name the most and i think it's

1:27

my new york accent is very hard

1:29

to see decoder ring ring

1:32

grades i just say decoder and it's like in the

1:34

princess bride reyes village you will not

1:36

find her common now

1:39

pretty soda or ring see

1:41

of he has be has prince to do it yeah it try

1:43

i try to really and unseat i feel like

1:45

our podcast they want

1:47

to be holding hands holding hands see like anyone who's

1:50

i you're wrong about listener the haven't listened

1:52

to the decoder ring catalogers to slake

1:55

the whole new theme park for you to discover

1:57

i'm really makes a metaphor as he the theme parks

1:59

that hold the and spit or their episodes

2:01

the he would recommend people start with

2:04

a my favorite episodes are like all

2:06

the secretly like you know that

2:08

i guess heavy way i love have a way to

2:10

the like all sort of like the secret

2:12

the psychological therapy drama

2:14

one like a major

2:16

character and i get to like be like what's up

2:18

with your feelings your feelings then

2:21

i think like on this theme the sad jenna

2:23

there which is which is about the question of why

2:25

are brad pitt and jennifer as and still getting married

2:27

on the cover of tabloids very apropos

2:30

and i see it as one that i really like we

2:32

did this one about techie t that i'd never been to

2:34

a my life that is like

2:36

pretty good like it's a pretty good story

2:39

chuck e cheese turned out to be pretty crazy

2:41

that was the first one i listen to i love

2:43

that one yeah people really like that one

2:45

we did this one called the mystery of the mullet which

2:47

is about the word for

2:49

the moment and where it comes from and

2:51

that ones like start to finish like got

2:54

a real are i was like was proper

2:56

mystery we sort of pretend that they're all that mysteries

2:58

but they're not my two favorite or this

3:00

one favorite did the called the sign painter which is about

3:02

on this artists that i've known my whole life and that one's

3:04

just and very emo but i think it's really good and then also

3:07

i'm we did one about the day and found and workout that ended

3:09

up also being really email because it's about jane fonda's

3:11

relationships with women who actually need

3:13

to work out name is lenny cause then and

3:15

that we did to about jane fonda but the first

3:17

jane fonda one is that that's i think i

3:19

would love to recommend the i is a cold

3:21

getting down on friday yeah yeah yeah

3:23

that's a given the ellen's amazing and that's

3:26

you know that such a maligned seen story

3:28

and i mean you do a bunch of different

3:30

areas but i love the way that you look

3:32

at how his our recent media landscape

3:35

change how far and away in

3:37

history is even ten years ago now

3:39

think you're a place i do think

3:41

of ourselves as being like thematic like connected

3:43

all the time totally what are you going

3:45

to tell me about today what kind of

3:48

ride are we gonna go on we're talking about the time

3:50

that tom cruise oprah

3:52

, scouts so excited

3:54

and excited to see

3:56

so it may attempting to guess what year this happened

3:58

yet please let's do the two thousand

4:01

psi are now that damn

4:03

if only i could keep track of the present like that

4:06

one of the really funny things about this the

4:08

me is that i know it was huge i

4:10

saw people talking about it for exactly

4:13

like as fairly engaged to that and i never

4:15

saw a video of it at the time i think

4:17

because two thousand and five was the your you tube started

4:20

raise those kind of the last moment when he said hear

4:22

about something endlessly without actually witnessing

4:25

and that's exactly right it happens in may

4:27

of two thousand and five tom cruise is

4:29

going on the oprah winfrey show sensibly

4:31

to promote this large movie has making

4:34

with steven spielberg out or authoritarian

4:36

but he's like a month into having this brand

4:39

new much younger girlfriend katie

4:41

holmes is known mostly for being on

4:43

dawson's creek but it's also that appear and batman

4:45

began and get

4:48

happened on oprah but right like

4:50

matthew watch oprah that day like you were

4:52

gonna find the whole episode

4:54

some people had me though is but not like dvr as

4:56

are everywhere and like oprah winfrey like putting

4:59

the episode online and

5:01

in there have been some viral videos

5:03

but as you said you tube just started like to

5:05

the point that in february so that people don't even

5:07

like know they can use it to how's their videos

5:10

so prime this really

5:12

clear memory i think of it you don't enough

5:14

is like seen it to have a memory of it like there's

5:16

a very

5:16

we're indistinct cultural memory of this

5:19

moment and like one signify than what it signifies

5:21

as like the moment hombres jumped up

5:23

on a couch which he actually didn't they will get india

5:25

well i get jumped up and down and nor

5:27

am i correct his mask off like mission impossible

5:29

style and just like this allows himself to be like a

5:32

stone cold freak event and like think that's like

5:34

what we sort of understand it as

5:36

and if you actually go like a while

5:38

the oh brother sued he says

5:40

it's not that it's not for

5:42

we are both memory but it's certainly like an incomplete

5:45

the memory of what happened and i think

5:48

if you watch it now you're like said

5:50

near me that would be the take away it's about

5:52

tom cruise but it's also served as much more

5:54

largely about like this really change

5:56

the time about celebrity and

5:59

technology and like media and culture and

6:01

humid get like caught in the crossfire of all

6:03

these changes in lights we

6:05

lay them out for at and , will

6:07

talk about i hope like how it's sort of tom cruise is

6:09

i get you know no one has to feel bad for tom cruise

6:11

he sort of like this this to draw celebrity

6:14

you don't have to feel bad for you but like it

6:16

is like slightly more complicated than now

6:19

paid regardless of whatever tom cruise

6:22

needs from the world i feel like it's better for

6:24

us if we

6:25

sort of examine why we thought we saw what

6:27

we thought we saw that my interaction

6:30

with it was that there were still images

6:32

and probably like a couple of iconic frames

6:34

that we're going around and then it's like your brain

6:37

they'll that at any feel like you've seen the

6:39

actual most and i'd definitely hands

6:42

in the episode i'm not even for i saw like the viral

6:44

cut down until i was researching

6:46

this but in my mind i can see him

6:48

i can see him jumping up and down on a

6:50

couch and it didn't happen like he jumps

6:53

onto it and then jumps on he he literally

6:55

doesn't do that something most

6:57

as insists , different vibe

6:59

it's like this kid i'm babysitting as really

7:01

wired as opposed to guy

7:04

gets animated on daytime talk show

7:06

totally or that's this is like speak

7:08

a pax oprah oprah

7:11

is the to me of oprah dumb

7:13

and like the oprah show self's just in september

7:16

of two thousand and four so less than a year before was like you

7:18

get a car you get a car you get a car like oh

7:20

wow it's that elbrus i do remember

7:22

this the like oprah can do no wrong say

7:24

is totally the audiences all

7:26

women anything there's anything early one man

7:28

tamper season that someone is like there's a man here would

7:30

like all the and and they have been elected

7:33

because they are obsessed with to impress

7:35

cowboy the energy level

7:37

at the show is like concert

7:39

same thing wow

7:45

he pursues i don't know she says massingham

7:48

is easy i am and

7:51

they're so innocent i

8:06

he come on and agency sort of overwhelmed

8:09

by how loud the crowd is wow and

8:11

his hair gets mustache and they embrace

8:13

the like a long time and then she like hair

8:16

, also there's a lot

8:18

of touching collegially know like

8:20

warm but like suitably things he's in a safe

8:22

space yeah honestly this is

8:24

so cute i might time so

8:28

yeah if such that it's like

8:30

when you're like right

8:30

the ocean and it's like crashing

8:32

and roaring everyone is couldn't be

8:35

more and to be there and see

8:37

the sensibly their to promote war of the world's but he's

8:39

just sort of had this

8:40

mountain of this new relationship and so that's basically

8:42

all they talk about that oprah has

8:45

insisted see oprah so good at wearing both

8:47

hath hands you can relate to the famous person

8:49

as a famous person but then she like but i gotta put

8:51

on my regular person hat and as app ask you what the

8:53

people wanna now in seated does

8:55

that or he's like we're not getting off this subject

8:58

and she like even never seen you like this

9:01

and she just sort of elicits a lot of

9:03

he's in love from him and to

9:05

this enthusiasm he adds a

9:07

number of like very

9:08

large physical dastardly figures like foreigners

9:11

very very grandiose typical dusters

9:14

that he repeats throughout so like one

9:16

is raising his hands in the air as though

9:18

mostly clingy to me is like he gets down

9:20

on one knee and likes this pumps wildly

9:22

like almost like not more and has

9:24

led to add he doesn't like every time they can't

9:27

believe his luck about have finding like this amazing

9:29

woman to the also regularly like grabs

9:31

oprah hands and like seek some they seek

9:33

them together like like some sort

9:35

of like really awkward like high five that's gonna

9:38

like you know you've given

9:39

if i'm adding that you hold their hand the you don't let go

9:41

need as that a lot and then that bore

9:43

saying what you just way see sort of very

9:45

acrobatically from sitting

9:48

on a couch jumps to standing on the couch

9:50

just like in one move and then hopped

9:52

off like you it actually would be hard for me

9:54

to do that brave now i feel

9:56

sad for tom cruise you know not

9:58

to san i'm going to going

10:00

you're gonna feel sadder than the whole idea

10:02

for a long time long time watch the

10:04

mission impossible movies as they were coming out

10:07

and then i made friends

10:09

with someone who's like a mission impossible superfan

10:12

than we watched by to them and a them

10:15

through his eyes and i was like oh my god

10:17

tom cruise is so delightful

10:19

as a movie star partly because

10:21

he's like i will run

10:24

full tilt through the streets of paris trying

10:26

to outrun a motorcycle or whatever that he's

10:28

just obsessed with physical

10:30

stance and so i feel like what

10:32

a bummer to do a great sign and then have

10:34

it pass classes like he's outta control

10:37

and i imagine being like i was totally

10:39

in control i'm like a gymnast the guy

10:41

is still i know like he knows

10:43

he's performing but he definitely feels

10:46

safe to like be ridiculous right the

10:48

extradition at the time would have been like

10:50

you saw the show or you didn't

10:54

you are either watching over watching like

10:56

three o'clock on whatever weekday that

10:58

was or you had soccer practice

11:00

that the that and so it goes

11:02

up but the next day someone does like a cut

11:04

down of only the parts or he's

11:07

doing like these acts huge physical

11:09

dangerous and it's

11:11

or to go everywhere and the it

11:13

was really fast for the time but basically

11:15

nunca down comes up that day there's like images

11:17

of anything under samer and then

11:19

is a week later someone does is

11:21

viral video where it's called pampered kills

11:23

oprah where like he has like electric bowl

11:26

is like coming out of his hands all he's doing that like

11:28

over along hand just like where they're holding

11:30

hands and holding her so many and as

11:32

like a week later and then it ends up on the the van

11:34

and then like the new york times and the alley like

11:36

frank rich that they're writing serious articles

11:38

about it like a in the middle of june wow

11:41

it it has these weird long

11:43

legs and end up like totally

11:45

destabilizing his career

11:48

and transforming it into emerging as

11:50

yeah do you have like a first tom cruise

11:52

movie oh boy i deploy

11:54

was the first mission impossible

11:56

when it came out and i think ninety six i

11:59

feel like he is the me mister mission

12:01

impossible and that kind of expresses whatever

12:04

i happen to believe about his core

12:06

being which is that he's like a

12:08

very smooth very determined

12:11

guy who just wants to like do everything

12:13

as hard as possible total as

12:16

still , critic and abs his

12:18

podcast now amy mickelson others really great

12:20

peace rally weekly sort of about a

12:22

couch jump but it was about numbers his

12:24

career and i think like we have the sense of him

12:27

as being like an accent star who like the

12:29

sort of now quintessentially like

12:31

hockey talk shore clean cut american

12:33

type you've got like they're like cricket

12:36

greg maverick

12:38

and yeah no and yeah that's true

12:40

but her read on his early grizzly interesting

12:42

basically the legs he gets really famous

12:45

at twenty one for risky business in which he like

12:47

stevie than his button down shirt

12:49

and a son got you know dancing and that it's her to remember

12:51

he was basically a teenager at the time so

12:54

he's like this hot young saying any like part

12:56

of this group of young actors that like include sean

12:58

penn and instead of doing a lot of press

13:00

and try to be in l a he goes

13:02

to london film that ridley scott movie

13:05

legend which is with flown from

13:07

ferris bueller's day off ago and

13:09

it doesn't work out but he just like not he's not about

13:11

it and but then in nineteen eighty six outcomes top

13:14

gun and it's like impossible for him to not be

13:16

super famous anymore button paramount immediately

13:19

like asks them to do top gun to and

13:21

he says no and he like goes to work with martin scorsese

13:23

and paul newman and makes the color of money and

13:25

he like he's like i want to work with people are like

13:27

really good yeah and he goes and like it's

13:29

sort of second fiddle to dustin hoffman and

13:32

the man and i mean cocktail he

13:34

makes at this point which doesn't fit in with the quality

13:36

although i love

13:37

hidden who had to comedy with elizabeth shue i

13:39

don't i only really love like terrible time christmas

13:42

and he had born on the fourth of july eat a we

13:44

think of him as liked action hero guy

13:46

but none of them they're really action movie his name

13:48

is pretty quiet about his personal life so

13:50

like and ninety eighty seven he marries mimi rodgers

13:53

with like six years older than him and she's a person who introduces

13:55

him to scientology in nineteen ninety

13:58

he gets divorced author renounces

14:00

catholicism and is like i'm gonna be a scientologist

14:03

an officer a famously meets nicole kidman

14:06

on days of them

14:07

or another bad movie that i have a soft spot for

14:10

a set of and they then made foreign always a bad movie

14:12

that i love the most have you seen barn way flip it

14:14

lives in a part of my memory where the movies

14:16

you saw when you're too young to really make sense

14:18

of them live and i remember specifically

14:20

the part where she's like she's rich

14:22

she's poor both leave

14:24

ireland for america or something like that

14:27

you got a okay and , she's like

14:29

trying to was something and he's

14:31

like you're washing that to

14:33

saw cf to scrub it it

14:37

a loss a the

14:39

nineties like apex of functional

14:41

tom cruise right lysander them as

14:43

minute meeting with at work and any like out amadou

14:45

a few good men he does the from right

14:48

like jerry maguire he starts doing mission

14:50

impossible like he's just kind of cruising in

14:52

between and he does into the vampire which people

14:54

are like really mean about whether or not he can do

14:56

that and of simplistic a sexy whatever

14:58

he was cursed he's

15:01

up to staff he nicole kidman are sort of very

15:03

power couple and then a kind of as

15:05

the end

15:06

the ninety is that a little wobbly

15:08

either he does magnolia would you think when he grows his hair

15:11

out and hair thought the when i decided the was cute they are really

15:13

remember him showing up and some premiere

15:15

or like us weekly before it was a tabloid

15:17

a a teen and being like who is that

15:19

said that tom cruise success

15:22

he finally feel the tangle i don't think he's

15:24

amazing and magnolia and magnolia think

15:26

i want to see him do more stuff like that that's

15:28

not really relevant here i guess one

15:30

it will it is actually it's gonna be valid okay

15:33

great we're going to call back so

15:35

, the other thing is happening is that he makes vehicle

15:37

him and go to work with stanley kubrick making eyes wide

15:39

shut shut nicodemus

15:41

just sounds as our like two weeks ago last couple

15:43

weeks deaths ended up talking to terry gross my eyes

15:46

wide shut and basically like this was a bit of or six month

15:48

or every eighteen months they're just like a living in

15:50

this they're making the seen eyes i chose

15:52

or this erotic drama

15:54

about this married

15:56

opening her sex games when they're

15:58

in the uk for the thing animal amount of

16:00

in the uk like totally different libel

16:02

laws in america were like you have them the person

16:04

suing has the burden of proof not the person

16:06

who printed the thing that may or may not be true so

16:09

basically you can get away with saying lot more stuff

16:11

but hombres goes ahead and sues

16:13

a british tabloid exactly

16:16

ninety ninety eight weeks back and he wins

16:18

about what he's suing them for is this

16:20

rumor that his marriage is a sham

16:22

because he's gay and called him in as

16:24

a beard and did have sex go to they

16:26

have to be taught how to have sex like you

16:29

, you think about who to them help

16:31

him as actors of the eighties and nineties

16:33

who like there haven't been rumors that

16:35

they were day yeah it's very few

16:38

such a good point especially richard

16:40

gere and measurable rumor like measurable

16:42

rumor know how they got attached to him yeah

16:44

it was the surpass time we just had to do

16:46

that as a country there's always

16:48

been this burble and this rumor is like a

16:50

sort of high pitch the tom

16:53

cruise my together often essentially

16:55

the moment that he's answer is very abruptly

16:57

gets divorced and this is all so

16:59

speculative but i remember very distinctly at

17:01

the time there was like you know california alimony

17:04

laws change after ten years and my

17:06

son the divorce happen right then there's all

17:08

this theorizing that they had like a deal she was

17:10

really young actress obviously like scientology

17:14

tom cruise creditably helping him with dyslexia

17:16

is sort of also in the mislead rumored

17:19

, thought not even robot sought to be sort of d

17:21

gays people like that as saying that they

17:23

do they have a doctor who adopted children

17:25

like this is this whole mess of like totally

17:28

a legend suspicion and rumor about

17:30

his sexual orientation now so he gets

17:32

divorced it's like pretty abrupt

17:34

and messy and immediately start dating has

17:36

caused our from vanilla sky penelope cruz like

17:38

sort of quietly and , for

17:40

a couple years into the my two thousand for like the

17:42

broken up and he doesn't

17:44

have a girlfriend seemingly

17:46

then seems from the public's

17:48

to go out and get another one insists

17:51

he basically shows up in april of two thousand

17:53

and five with katie holmes in rome and at the

17:55

time the tabloids like people

17:57

that home runs as online survey that like is

18:00

relationship a true romance or a publicity

18:02

the and like sixty two percent of responses

18:05

say it's a publicity that and obviously this is totally

18:07

bogus for the boys is that this is how like

18:09

everyone kind of thinking about and dar

18:11

magazine tablet like runs as a headline

18:13

that like good as be true like us weekly

18:16

the also doing like surveys i use the internet

18:18

as legally and i would me

18:19

the survey that because i was so excruciating

18:21

to got cable and has learned ask them questions like this

18:23

so i'm not saying it's true but it is like how many

18:25

people were you supposed to talk to others

18:27

as a hundred and i would totally do what you said i would ask

18:29

ten and just like extrapolate the numbers

18:31

out i know that because i guess listen to your describes

18:34

about and very sad jennifer aniston

18:36

episode which i love to that such a mystery

18:38

of our time splitters really connected

18:40

and we were going to get into them were happening and the tabloids

18:43

some at school

18:44

we like everyone is is like extremely

18:46

extremely skeptical that whether

18:49

they should be are not like there's just a lot

18:51

of cynicism that this is like he needed

18:53

to like check about

18:55

and he dead throughout this

18:57

he's had his really powerful publicist

18:59

named pat kingsley who also

19:02

represented sandra bullock and al pacino

19:04

and meg ryan these are working other and the

19:06

nineties and she's like making people sign

19:08

a nondisclosure if you do a print interview with

19:10

him you to make see signs and things and you're not gonna

19:12

sell it to the tabloids to makes tv

19:14

journalist delete bird destroy

19:17

the tape after they ,

19:19

and also the media ecosystem is like smaller

19:21

and contained raids like yeah there's less

19:24

outlets also in the early two thousand

19:26

he fires higher higher higher his

19:29

sister oh tom know totally

19:32

out of it does seem like scientology

19:35

is becoming increasingly important and like scientology

19:37

has long been supposed to be a factor in

19:39

his divorce and okay man and he's sort of like

19:41

insisted there's a scientology

19:43

hang on the war of

19:45

the world sat answer the after this oprah

19:47

thing he will go on to do some officers

19:49

infamous interviews with matt lauer where he like

19:52

goes after the history of psychiatry and brooke

19:54

shields like it just seems just scientology is a

19:56

becoming more central to him surveyed

19:58

he has added does suck which

20:00

oh yeah that doesn't make you more sympathetic

20:03

that so our hearts the mood about like

20:05

celebrities in two thousand and five

20:08

is like really not the mood about celebrities

20:11

right now so the

20:13

things that are happening they think are germane

20:15

to the mood the first is

20:17

reality television we obviously have

20:19

valley college and for and long time like the real world the idea

20:21

of basically in two thousand survivor the

20:23

first season starts and america falls in love with

20:25

reality tv and atkinson in ways

20:28

and it'll take a couple years or

20:30

like the machine of minting

20:32

many same as people the from reality

20:34

shows will really tickets

20:36

but everyone is really like enamored with

20:39

this new way of existing

20:41

in public or and section so

20:44

i just for example after the

20:46

oprah and then a columnist for the l a

20:48

times like this the about now

20:50

celebrity they're all like existing in this reality

20:52

tv zone where like they can make their own reality

20:55

tv show like without being on t the league literally

20:57

just one we all live inhabit everything

20:59

amended of the day with all social media but

21:01

it feels like an interesting insight into

21:03

like a new a being same as we're sort

21:06

of letting people in on the back seat behind the scenes

21:08

but you're also not sits is a new

21:10

way of thinking about how famous

21:12

people can inhabit space and time

21:14

like around us they can be like kind of performing

21:17

but also been real at the same time it's

21:20

really hard to get back to back time when we didn't have

21:22

direct access to celebrities

21:24

and their thoughts through social media like in two

21:26

thousand two thousand you would be like what david

21:28

caruso doing today

21:30

you just wouldn't know david

21:35

, successor

21:38

i think one of the things that is happening

21:40

with tom cruise it seems like he's aware

21:43

and this moment of the changes that are happening

21:45

around him and that people want that different kind of access

21:47

to celebrity like a moron then take unfettered

21:50

until he's like

21:51

been so uptight i have not

21:53

talked about my personal life had been so like on the ball

21:56

and hey look a new age maybe people

21:58

want to see like your feelings

22:00

you know like citizen

22:01

the obr interview he like i can't be cool like

22:03

you know when you feel like this is gonna tell people caesar

22:06

reaching for this new authenticity

22:08

of but he's like very bad at it or like it

22:10

just comes across like totally an authentic

22:13

but i think that that is the contact we

22:15

have all these new ways of reaching audiences

22:17

maybe i should do something with that as

22:19

, all know like being on a reality versus

22:22

difficult care and he's such an old

22:24

fashioned movie star that to watch

22:26

him try to transition to that it's like having

22:29

the champion penny farthing writer

22:31

try and ride a bike with two wheels

22:34

of the safe side side

22:36

you're very good at the other thing is what

22:38

if he did that know that's what i think that exactly

22:41

right but he's like this is new bicycle we should get

22:43

should penny farthing not going to go anywhere

22:45

and only other thing that's happening the explosion

22:47

of the tablet and in two thousand and one body

22:49

filler takes over us weekly and sort of inaugurate

22:52

split a more pugnacious lately

22:54

dismissive relationship to celebrities were

22:56

like her famous invention is like stars are just

22:58

like us we see people pumping

23:00

their gas and wearing og then doesn't

23:02

mean that you're not like super obsessed and interested

23:05

in celebrities but you're not see websites

23:07

and interested in like a hedge your graphic way anymore right

23:09

you don't want to read what the studios

23:11

are pointing out about cary grant you want the dirt

23:14

and you now you want to see cary grant coming out

23:16

of someone's house and them of them

23:18

are leaving his allah steelers house

23:21

or totally so there's us weekly would metastasize

23:23

is very quickly into a number of other tablet including

23:26

star and other stuff but then there's also

23:28

this explosion

23:30

in blog like into doesn't violate the number

23:32

of basel from ten million to twenty five million

23:35

and one of those as far as

23:37

hilton in whom you know becomes

23:39

a hugely hugely successors library bago

23:41

by it literally drawing dicks

23:44

celebrities face as it feels relevant

23:46

that we needed may be i mean we still behave

23:49

absolutely shamefully with regards to everyone

23:51

in the media so it's not like we're living in this age

23:53

of enlightenment that i feel as if that

23:56

time itself so exciting

23:58

and in away

24:00

the necessary to be able to

24:02

like try and bring celebrities

24:04

down to the level of

24:06

normal people i feel like we were gleeful

24:09

at the fact that we could prod

24:11

their humanity and a way that we really couldn't

24:13

before i think all that is like tom cruise

24:16

like an a lister and there

24:18

are some of those people laugh but that's like really not

24:21

the celebrity ecology snow the slippery

24:23

ecology is full of who's and people

24:25

that we now you know maybe really famous you will that people

24:27

who is now they got same as like on

24:30

a movie screen being a gorgeous

24:32

and twenty feet tall or whatever ray especially

24:34

really does that kind of famous person there's

24:36

a lot of pleasure making them a little more

24:38

life sized name this is also i would say like

24:41

really pete tablet because

24:43

the other story that happening in two thousand and five

24:45

his brand selena which is laden there

24:47

, no bigger story and similarly

24:50

brad pitt and angelina jolie and jennifer anniston

24:52

like they're so elevated

24:54

that there's that slight there's a people feel a

24:56

little more comfortable new just are punching

24:58

up oh yeah to i never ceiling

25:01

like it was so amazing

25:03

that they hadn't collided with each

25:05

other before like there too like

25:08

the to people who with the jaime would use

25:10

to signify like

25:12

the most desirable person

25:14

imaginable the and then you're

25:16

like oh i've never seen him next to each other

25:18

before how is that how are they are drawn

25:20

together like magnets you

25:22

just like a famous person years like yep

25:24

now i will call that person's agent

25:27

or like call their manager because we're on the same

25:29

a slob like saw you not to be introduced

25:31

you know you're like way we already know each other i

25:34

guess now they have an app for something i

25:37

definitely had here i'm

25:39

sure your mental illness at the time but i also

25:41

remember being very enchanted by the

25:43

fact that i think katie holmes had like at

25:46

least said that she had a poster of tom cruise on her

25:48

wall

25:48

the scene or a tweet see had

25:51

told seven he magazine she wanted to marry

25:53

him right and i was like so you're telling

25:55

me there is hope for me and

25:57

whoever i had a crush on in two thousand psi

26:00

the has to be too embarrassing to say that

26:03

, find it so creepy is another so

26:05

creepy about that do yeah now that i'm

26:07

an adult that is also creep his movies

26:09

like when a day with had hamilton or whenever

26:12

i think there's like more little promise of like rain

26:14

with your high school misery

26:16

and not in

26:19

a different directions

26:21

the and butter thing about a right like to have

26:23

an experience of someone's like same and didn't actually

26:25

know them do you think the experience of their famous

26:27

still distorting at especially one

26:29

as someone like

26:30

gorillas are now i'm sure the

26:32

levels of power or really interesting

26:34

their yeah if you grow up

26:37

watching someone the manner

26:39

in a relationship with them i feel like the

26:41

version that exists and in your had my

26:44

sort of take precedence for a long

26:46

time until you're able to look up and be like

26:48

wait the sky and i know about this

26:50

guy upper ,

26:52

it seems like when you move into a new place and

26:54

you have all these ideas about how you're going to decorate

26:56

it in and earn what your life will be like and than a year

26:58

later it's completely different and hopefully

27:01

you really like really did not

27:04

as opposed to now there's like a lot

27:06

of reveling in being

27:08

mean to celebrity than being cynical

27:10

about them and and tom cruise and brad

27:12

pitt and and it only or one half of them we also

27:14

have like the paris britney yeah andy

27:17

lau hands tacit slow motion disaster

27:19

stuff like burbling underneath were sort

27:21

of not feeling that generous i would

27:23

say yeah there's like a bumper crop

27:25

of cruelty and yeah i feel like we're kind

27:27

of fending off

27:29

the time i feel a people were very stressed

27:32

about the idea that you could be famous for

27:34

being famous yes oh my

27:36

god and maybe now we agree that that's

27:38

fine like that with all

27:40

the oil

27:41

we didn't do any paris hilton right there is like a real

27:43

anxiety like what is that one of the famous reminiscing

27:46

the very clear like for example kim kardashians a very

27:48

good at the thing that she's doing raids

27:50

very difficult to be a reality star

27:52

she's working all the time it's

27:55

very funny in retrospect that at the time

27:57

we were like obviously the correct

27:59

model is

28:00

you act or sing or something

28:02

and then have your life destroyed by celebrity

28:04

and i feel like from where we are now

28:06

and and the ecosystem we have a feeling it makes

28:08

total sense to be like no wouldn't be

28:10

nice if they were people who were just like i

28:13

wanna be a celebrity i don't care what

28:15

kind and then they got that

28:17

and then they really cool i'm going

28:19

to

28:20

this is all my energy and being a celebrity

28:22

because that is my job as opposed to like

28:25

i just want to act and

28:27

i have to sign babies now

28:29

i do wonder though is this is not also

28:31

the time when same really started to ruin

28:34

people's lives i mean

28:36

obviously same as always complicated and it

28:38

by the gotta be blood had drug and alcohol

28:40

and mental health problems that simic totally exacerbated

28:43

by same but this but this

28:45

you can't turn it off yeah i know what

28:47

did you watch get back the beatles document

28:49

i didn't watch that one adding that anything

28:51

about as i have this record label in the heart

28:53

of london the daily dish though up to their

28:55

they walk up or the take a taxi and seen

28:57

other than one or two people standing

28:59

alexander but they does exist in the

29:01

city and they come to work and there's like does not

29:03

the gillian people around just trying

29:06

to take pics the them and years like oh they're

29:08

the beatles they're so famous but it's only

29:10

been

29:10

wasn't crazy for them but like get a totally

29:12

different temperature it's , not

29:15

all the time and this is what it's changing

29:17

this is when seeing same as means you're

29:19

famous every minute of the day so like maybe

29:22

you should have a different perspective on what same as

29:24

and just decide to be famous every minute of the

29:26

day and more if you want to be an actor and actress

29:28

you are also signing up for being same as everyman

29:30

the the day like there's no you can't have both

29:33

you can have one or the other and i sort of thing thing

29:35

before it was a little more or less intense

29:38

yeah so then the other thing that is also makes it an intense

29:40

as if you to suit up there been no viral

29:42

videos viral think of really analogous thing

29:44

to this actually this nothing to do with celebrities at all but

29:47

as the howard dean scream yes

29:49

oh my gosh that was of bomber

29:51

can you tell that like story let something

29:53

like story dean was like the front runner

29:55

for a democratic presidential nomination

29:58

in two thousand and four and he in january

30:01

of that year like doesn't event where he again

30:03

is like in a room full of really excited

30:05

people who are on his side and he

30:07

says let's out a yeah all

30:10

a screen in an intense long

30:12

scream that basically gets plucked

30:14

out of that interaction and

30:16

spread all over the internet as is like

30:19

a sign of him being like totally grazie

30:21

him

30:22

uncool and it does actually appeared

30:24

to totally tank him play

30:26

and that makes me think of the thing or like musky

30:28

people thought that he had cried even

30:31

when that was the cities of the sixties and

30:33

that destroyed his campaign i

30:35

think this is the dean's name was also made possible

30:37

by guess what the media was in the moment that that

30:39

happened but that may be we're used

30:41

to having that level of scrutiny for presidential

30:44

candidates who are working in any kind of a mediator

30:46

you know like nick think that sweaty and nineteen sixty

30:49

five now that you are

30:51

being so surveilled as celebrity

30:54

maybe is like i'm sure we've always

30:56

had this yeah that maybe that acknowledge

30:58

he is allowing us to surveil more people

31:00

more closely totally an awfully think there's

31:02

the about literally media literacy me

31:04

as something like the dean dream or the tom

31:06

cruise moment you are seeing as

31:09

you're seeing the video of as i like written theo

31:11

but at that moment in time but

31:14

the war in one hundred journalist lower than like actually

31:16

what's the context league

31:18

like what is actually you know like you don't see

31:20

people doing like a close reading of the whole over aba

31:23

so like and two days later i and you

31:25

would now you know him as we like know

31:27

the trunk their eyes like even though we also totally

31:30

trust or i like the that were ordered connelly living

31:32

in this like duality where we like absolutely

31:35

believe everything that we see an alternate we can't believe everything

31:37

we see that's part of why we're all going crazy but

31:39

my you so you see the thing and have an

31:41

opinion

31:41

the but you might be like oh there may be more

31:43

here and i think sort of the dawn of the

31:45

viral video and you're like my god i

31:47

can see it right this is so unhinged

31:50

i mean atladena been and tom cruise

31:52

or really similar in the sense of like knowing us

31:54

this man is too and ten

31:57

this is and decorous yeah

32:00

they did not quite a salmon it it is not

32:02

masculine instant and calm it's

32:04

not yeah what we're expecting from our action

32:07

heroes or our president trades and

32:09

we want we can carry who i don't remember feeling

32:11

strongly about anything except

32:13

like know exactly it's okay so right

32:15

the thing is that you tube started but like a first

32:17

cut down as this which this just

32:19

like all the crazy part is not on you tube a

32:21

future one the sort of viral videos zelek

32:24

electorate is on you tube and

32:26

tom cruise and his team and o'brien her

32:28

team would never have known that

32:30

this could possibly happen right now

32:32

every famous person and their handlers

32:35

the consider like breathing they do my

32:37

go viral in fact they like hoping that can

32:39

happen but this is definitely not in

32:41

the realm of possibility area like dodos

32:45

nothing the get decided that and you never consider

32:47

and like the deal with oprah is that like maybe

32:49

it'll maybe really big that day but then tomorrow

32:51

so make another show and then everyone will talk about

32:54

that mom all move on right and

32:56

moreover like we can have can reasonable expectation

32:58

that everybody saw it

33:00

shows to watch tom cruise on oprah

33:03

which probably indicated they like like

33:05

him yes sobers like a safe space

33:07

for famous people to come talk to a breaths and

33:09

her adoring audience even as like press

33:11

held in is drying literally like does

33:14

on celebrities the his is it is the him times

33:16

and like the tabloids are like coining pet

33:18

names you know they're gonna be palm cats

33:21

you think about fan bases like tom cruise doesn't

33:23

have

33:24

him because his stands are

33:26

like the middle aged women that were

33:28

the oh brought it rained all the things that

33:30

a celebrity would now and going into

33:32

some situation like this are just think

33:34

oh it's and like forming have

33:37

like what twitter now it's like there's a bunch of people that are

33:39

really skeptical of tom cruise and like

33:41

suspicious of him as there are also

33:43

these people who loves him right and

33:45

they don't have a much occasion to bump into each other

33:47

but they're like about it

33:48

there we go on obr as he said it's like very

33:51

cozy and she fixes his hair

33:54

and like they hold hands lot but this is i want

33:56

to play you this

33:56

the little how it starts basically overhead

33:58

recently just hosted

34:00

the legend the ball which will air on tv

34:02

a year later and with as event where

34:04

she's are celebrated twenty five black

34:06

women including like tony morrison in my

34:08

angelou and carol and rosa

34:11

parks and and and tina turner

34:13

who like to have a crush on congress and i stopped

34:15

him and so is it just happened and

34:17

tom and katie were at this event and

34:19

he sent flowers it is that these are talking about

34:22

and he's so sincerely like it was magical

34:24

like they're just like any like really complimenting are

34:26

that and then she's ss ah but what

34:28

what oprah

34:30

by of knowledge in those women great

34:32

and

34:36

oh wow

34:38

you know and i'll build all the love

34:41

of know somehow me why that wasn't

34:43

it wasn't a guy it was magic

34:45

know this is over at our i'm fine i

34:47

turned and looked at one point you are standing in

34:49

the chair hi

34:52

the blacks eyeball he was sitting in his

34:54

black tie dude off

34:57

and it was you going he has i go i

34:59

love that enthusiasts

35:00

though he did some some big flowers nearly

35:02

dead and it's has flowers from time i love

35:06

right like so in this club you're hearing oprah

35:09

say

35:09

loud how enthusiastic he

35:11

was yeah and in in his enthusiasm

35:14

which he expressed by getting on a

35:16

piece of furniture yeah

35:19

the whole couch dumping thing is

35:21

a call back to this oh my god

35:25

the what do you like he is unhinged

35:27

on the other like he's doing the things

35:30

he opens just told him she loved

35:32

so every time the he

35:34

is the ass and now katie holmes and he jumps

35:36

on the counters twice he's saying like i'm

35:39

so excited about that manifest

35:41

it's not like loved x that's what he's trying to say

35:44

men do our there's all this fun

35:46

like that the self awareness needs to seize

35:48

are saying over and over again like you're gone

35:50

you're done mike and then he says i'm standing

35:53

on your

35:53

ouch that's hogan i am i

35:58

, there really is and it's like

36:00

enjoy between them totally

36:02

and never occurred to me how like pally

36:04

they could be but of course they are they both the

36:07

same degree of same as basically it

36:09

ended up like harming their relationship

36:11

understandably and on the she was not

36:13

that nice about it with him later

36:16

it's hard to be a brand that

36:18

, you're my day

36:21

guy or less i mean it is are being overall was

36:23

the yeah i guess it's a game of thrones

36:25

it's like if you're gonna be oprah you have to destroy

36:27

a lot of what you love to sit

36:30

in the throne yes but i am really

36:32

like impressed with this sort of ease and confidence

36:34

with which toggles between so

36:36

blatantly the like i

36:39

inhabit exactly the same exalted

36:41

world as you but i

36:43

know what people want to hear and that is

36:46

my obligation to get it for

36:48

them rape them whole thing is like he's being

36:50

much more open than he's ever open than

36:53

ah to refer to this

36:55

time that that katie holmes had said she wanted

36:57

to marry him when she was seventeen years old and

36:59

then she goes i'm in the business of making

37:01

dreams happen are you in the business

37:03

of making dreams apis

37:06

france or you can ask her to marry

37:08

a now and tom's like i hate to

37:10

disappoint her in there and like much

37:15

, an and then overs like know really so are

37:17

you know and

37:19

then he's somebody like are we here to

37:21

promote war of the world and ethically when he like

37:24

reaches over and grabbed her by the shoulders and arms the thing

37:26

that is a scene of like the viral video of him electrifying

37:28

her that as a numbers goes over us with

37:30

ethic literally at the moment he's like can we

37:33

talk and then

37:35

you know it over like you like we cannot

37:37

talk about it we're going to shoot i'd like a leader

37:40

he says you know he just like he likes to make you laugh

37:42

he like his mom and sister to ease a performer and

37:44

he was like in this mode and you can see if they're

37:47

loving it or am loving think people

37:49

thought it was though weird

37:51

and be but it doesn't really seem

37:53

seek to me i see that it's too

37:55

much but it doesn't read his feet

37:57

to three as a to you know and i'm

37:59

a very sad

38:00

it was person i think that i feel like

38:02

the read event that i had second hand at the time

38:04

was like this fake movie stars safely

38:06

jumping on a couch to

38:08

sell his fake relations with the snake

38:10

lady and i think

38:13

that there's also an incredible read

38:15

a lot of us have for somebody being like truly

38:17

in the grip of a strong emotion because

38:20

that's the cynicism the maybe develops

38:22

if you feel like who can ever

38:24

actually be that happy but lake regardless

38:26

of what he is ceiling that about

38:28

are like what's creating this moment for him

38:31

he just reminds me of like the he got a

38:33

cert paring down in essence

38:35

isn't that a yes he like interest

38:38

bearing of exactly right like his is so

38:40

drunk but it isn't any sense to me

38:42

as someone

38:42

the being like this is part of our strategy

38:45

you're gonna stop

38:46

weighing everything so close to the chest

38:48

and rain people want

38:50

more access to the be miserable

38:52

and they want to feel more intimately with the famous people

38:55

they know this is an opportunity

38:57

to be really rome like this is the brawn brand it's

38:59

romantic it's big like go back to do

39:01

you season and then he tom cruise is like

39:03

i always do my own stunts and to be like

39:06

i'm gonna go bag as

39:08

such as is like a misunderstanding about

39:11

how to appear sincere and

39:13

authentic on camera which like he

39:15

he obviously sort of understands it is my

39:17

the you know i can when people go from being in cedar

39:19

to being in movies you know when to relate

39:21

to play the the back row and then and movie them that

39:23

gives a do so much last the camera would

39:26

get it there some like similar like

39:28

dissonance right he doesn't understand how

39:30

to play piano to viral video crowd

39:32

this a new art form

39:34

it's also so sad where it's like oh time

39:36

just be yourself people will live it and

39:38

then

39:40

it just became this national shit

39:42

storm and a guy imagine him being like

39:44

never again the ,

39:47

right the thing that we're seeing it

39:49

like you are such an intense person

39:51

and that's probably always been true and

39:53

probably continues to be true and you're being super

39:55

intense about that and intense is not effortless

39:58

right intense is not really like

40:00

happy and hence his legs that can be

40:02

and that is how you are famous in hollywood

40:04

for forty years like you're just very

40:06

controlling and advance now

40:09

, not the guy who cast and mission impossible

40:12

because he's gonna like jog and a safe pay

40:15

around prague or whatever

40:18

and then he's like approaching love that way

40:20

i mean the public doubting story

40:23

that are being told about a celebrity romance

40:25

makes total sense because we've been lied

40:27

to so many times that makes sense that we're all

40:29

the status of the whole thing this

40:32

came up in their tammy faye baker

40:34

really is and i can't link kind of thinking about

40:36

it since the late real emotion

40:39

makes us very suspicious a series

40:41

and i'm thinking of like also in

40:43

a very famous mean before there was

40:45

a meme moment and terms of you know it

40:47

would like show up parried it on seinfeld months

40:49

later tonya harding stopped her

40:52

lying program at the olympics and eighteen

40:54

a for because she had a broken skate lay some

40:56

like when you know place at her skin up on the

40:58

judges table and was clearly

41:00

destroy it and i think a lot of people saw

41:02

that as her

41:04

causing more trouble on purpose and

41:06

engineering this disaster and

41:08

it's just like why is it not more believable to

41:10

us that like she's just in the grip of

41:12

a striker emotion than she could handle

41:14

and this is just a real disaster

41:17

what if tom cruise like did go

41:19

down a list to find an appropriate girlfriend

41:21

that's just called like matchmaking on a one

41:23

thing is a but this idea that he was like i in fact

41:25

i'm looking for a new partner and i will like coli

41:28

all appropriate and for like that's not

41:30

so different and like online dating into for yeah

41:32

feels robotic and weird and especially did

41:34

then raid what if he did

41:36

just like pickle isn't twenty up young and up

41:38

and coming out it might send an email them

41:41

like that really weird on the

41:43

one hand and then it's also like very mercenary

41:45

and logical on another it's like the same or

41:47

have a job to do i'll do it kind of personality

41:50

i feel very sympathetic to that read

41:53

because i feel like i'm two years

41:55

into a pandemic what wherever we are now

41:57

i feel like i'm now whenever i hear about

41:59

any

42:00

one who i feel like i could possibly be

42:02

interested in romantically am the single

42:04

are they single would

42:08

lead lead longer to doing version of

42:10

it you know i mean all he's doing whatever

42:12

you do and you know like who knows were lots

42:14

of that i'm currently never know but i would say

42:16

that it was like certainly out of this

42:18

moment him the most and charitable read

42:21

of

42:21

i got me the most and terrible thing about it is

42:23

that like he wasn't reading the room when

42:26

absolutely he was reading

42:28

the room hundred right man is

42:30

that he wasn't reading all the other rooms

42:32

his viral video would play and

42:34

me are in the contacts

42:36

he's actually giving everybody their exactly

42:39

what they wanted and they are thrilled about

42:41

at and also occurs to me that this is kind

42:43

of a uniquely bad moment to go viral

42:46

because it's the moment when we have the technology

42:48

for video to travel around the world

42:51

the way that when i used to but also it's like

42:53

a pain in the ass to wait for a two minute

42:55

long video to load i

42:57

spend a lot of time watching youtube videos that

42:59

are late two hours line that are like

43:02

town of khan and seven

43:04

chapters and existing exhaustively

43:06

broken down by some college student in their bedroom

43:09

and here like yes tell me tell me the contacts

43:11

like i feel like technologically we

43:14

didn't have the capacity for context

43:17

that

43:17

the boy and not as technologically

43:19

the get is more like almost mentally yeah

43:22

i mean and to be fair like some of those

43:24

there's are very broad and very we

43:26

are of yeah how many times you need to kneel

43:28

and fist bump you know he's

43:30

doing it over and over it's not like there isn't anything

43:33

cringe the happening to the entire

43:35

bag of sharklet over coffee beans

43:37

and the green room success in

43:40

the greener than they bring her out of the and whenever

43:43

ah yeah totally oh my god

43:45

oh it's very it was a i would just like

43:47

the after the fact that are

43:49

like incredible given what

43:52

it is so is mean i think people

43:54

at the time like this ruin his career and ah the

43:56

afterwards is the magnum course it didn't ruin his career like

43:58

he still is a bear the famous and big

44:00

movie star but it absolutely did alter his

44:03

career and change i think like

44:05

how we think about him uh-huh and rich

44:07

usually acu i i mentioned before of this piece

44:09

about it and he sort of mentioned like one of the things it did

44:11

do was like totally squash

44:14

the gay rumors because like the decision

44:16

to like present yourself as not gay

44:18

by instead presenting yourself as like super

44:21

duper weird just seem know

44:23

automobile or do they worked so well

44:25

that everyone just went from being like maybe

44:28

, guides being like oh you're just a strange

44:30

strange person like that just became the operating

44:33

thing about tom cruise cruise

44:35

of a pyrrhic victory yes exactly

44:38

and sort of in the weeks after as he was promoting

44:40

more of the world he did this today

44:42

show interview with matt lauer where he

44:44

sort of really snaps at him about not knowing the

44:46

history of psychiatry and like taking brooke

44:48

shields to task done in those he seems

44:50

like just like an asshole you know

44:52

and it's all for psychology so it's just

44:54

like very gross and

44:57

scary kind of yeah and paramount

44:59

cuts the war of the world's press tour short

45:01

and then war of then world would cost a lot of money does

45:04

go money to make money but perhaps not quite as much

45:06

money as people thought it was going to make initially

45:08

although to really did make quite make bit of money and

45:10

sort of in august paramount like ended their relationship

45:12

with tom cruise that's been going on for fifteen years

45:15

are saying like you know

45:17

he's become a pop culture punchline

45:19

wow god stick it out

45:21

stand by your man paramount he actually

45:23

totally like doesn't really make romances

45:26

anymore he stopped the jury maguire

45:28

stafford

45:29

it did effect becomes not a part of a thing any really

45:31

really says to action movies almost exclusively

45:33

says i'm amy nicholson's to of the

45:36

peace rally weekly that i mention and she's a sort of like we

45:38

like a guess and like a viral

45:41

video and like we've lost a movie star who

45:43

actually was like really interested in doing

45:45

interesting stuff for the verse twenty years richer

45:47

and like just stopped and now like only does

45:50

exactly the things that are safe

45:52

because

45:53

people kind of think he the we're now and he's

45:55

and a rescuing interview with a vampire eyes

45:57

wide shut or magnolia

46:00

that's why we didn't get more magnolias

46:02

in his money to to they feel like

46:05

then we may be conflated the matt lauer

46:07

interview with the over a moment and kind of were like

46:09

i get to hate the oprah moment because

46:12

the matt lauer moment was actually hate a bowl

46:14

and it's like yes okay but

46:17

i feel like scientology is real weird

46:20

and they seem pretty

46:22

scary to me and i think the idea of someone

46:25

becoming really and mashed and scientology

46:27

and then wyoming

46:30

there i believe former endless love

46:32

co-star for writing a memoir about

46:35

postpartum depression is like really

46:37

terrible but i also don't think paramount

46:39

was like tom cruise were dropping you because

46:42

you hindered the fight to the stigmatized

46:44

post partum depression public

46:47

the most the next most viral thing he

46:49

did was that very intense or a speech

46:51

he gave at the scientology it was

46:53

an inner scientology virus like video

46:55

how he basically like we privatized

46:58

his life master that you know like there's

47:00

the does it sort of opening up a denny's or a shutdown

47:02

is making a different kind of movie but he thrusts start talking

47:04

about

47:05

he and games do get married and they do have

47:08

a baby i mean another oh i remember that

47:10

baby a success a very

47:12

big ms you know like i mean an extremely

47:15

it drew me in that topic running alongside

47:17

of this is like them fixation on the baby

47:19

bump of like this moment octomom

47:21

and like this weird obsession with fertility

47:23

also like totally driven

47:25

by the tabloids but like they do get married they

47:27

are together for a long time they do get divorced we don't

47:29

like really know that his dating life anymore at

47:31

all and you can see how he got there

47:34

and like that all we do know that is like freaky scientology

47:36

south another one of the reasons were like i

47:38

feel like hungry the whole personal life is like all

47:41

about scientology now in it's like like

47:43

, alarm goes well he grew

47:45

very bad and either when you

47:47

look back at the oprah they go we did i'm a little dirty

47:50

but also like it's too complicated

47:51

when he became to like really wanna

47:54

apologize she's a weird guy but that

47:56

was like maybe the least weird thing

47:58

he did that meet

48:01

harmful like it's harmless yeah maybe

48:04

that's important you can

48:06

do something weird and tab

48:08

lady where you're calling

48:10

into question the reality of post

48:13

partum depression or even just be

48:15

a very active says a cool guy who

48:17

is being very exuberant and open and

48:19

kind of ceiling disarmed by the

48:21

amount of love in the room for you and like those

48:23

aren't the same thing that

48:26

and then a scientology thing rate where he sort

48:28

of like with his peers the

48:30

fact that he made the same mistake both times

48:32

i connect that the fact that people

48:34

growing up today and myself

48:37

honestly to some extent the expectation

48:40

you have to have now if you're putting yourself into

48:43

the public sphere in any way as lake the

48:45

entire world could feel the need to comment

48:47

on this for some reason they probably won't

48:50

but they curse especially

48:52

, tom cruise is

48:55

almost couldn't have happened before like we just

48:57

didn't have like the technological capabilities

48:59

to do capabilities and then it just don't have that would

49:02

have happened after only because even

49:04

though tom cruise is very very the him

49:06

there is a powerful

49:07

the core know about determine

49:09

which we understood what was happening would have been different wanted

49:11

that we would have understood it as a play for viral

49:14

anti more we would have understood it

49:16

like the scientology south as i kind of like him

49:18

trolling he wanted put himself

49:20

out there and that way and i think we would responded

49:22

to it would more jaded mess

49:24

a little been any still been interested in made

49:26

fun of it but also dislike this is another celebrity

49:28

like kind of pathetically trying to get attention

49:31

and it really didn't feel that way i mean it wasn't not

49:33

right he wasn't trying to get attention in that

49:35

way and

49:36

the just like uncharted territory and out very

49:38

targeted to me this kind of a bittersweet

49:40

loss world in this to at i feel like

49:43

it's the way people may be used to feel

49:45

when they're like in my day we got ice from the

49:47

iceman and they cut it out of lakes smoulder

49:49

this is like have you read celebrity profiles

49:51

and like the nineties so yeah it was before

49:53

everything to go around on the internet selects there's

49:56

is like same as premier injury or jennifer lopez's

49:58

just like slagging on

50:00

everybody like you can fight like either the meryl streep

50:02

profiling are like the nineties and didn't get as he does

50:04

or she just literally like shit talk madonna

50:07

what you stop the like does no one would ever

50:09

do now because you just they would know like able

50:11

to

50:11

be all over the world and the internet for

50:13

days and i'll be asked about a forever and

50:15

the really the robot the only glory

50:18

days are like people to

50:18

the good only going to be here so they were like

50:20

willing to like duet dislike

50:23

say something real can't put it like a

50:25

moment where people felt comfortable with a certain

50:28

range of performative behavior

50:30

now honestly even or maybe you know

50:32

whatever know you just everyone knows better

50:34

unless they really want the attention yeah there's

50:36

like these layers of lesser

50:38

levels of surveillance after the vcr

50:41

but before the internet and then there's like

50:43

before then vcr now when you

50:45

go on t v and do something weird

50:47

and then people would be like

50:49

the think i remember that things didn't

50:51

have a lotus and

50:54

he can play at for anybody and it will become like

50:56

oral folklore the way

50:58

that you kid remain in

51:00

obscurity that feels

51:03

like a thing that we're now missing the

51:05

lack of expectation of privacy that

51:07

anybody seems to have but than the

51:09

fact that we have the ability

51:12

to offer context feels like some kind

51:14

of kind revealing way to that but it

51:16

doesn't

51:16

the no i don't think it evens out it's

51:20

still so new yeah i know it's been

51:22

like twenty years or fifteen years since this happened

51:24

or something like that and or like it's not new and

51:27

people who are like thoughtful and cool don't

51:29

wanna be like kumar me about

51:31

our bad technology as good like

51:33

the history of people being really worked

51:35

out the that have that technology is like it doesn't

51:37

like are the novels gonna ruin everything

51:39

here when he got his race maybe it there

51:42

are some i think that we're doing like

51:45

are still really new and have our

51:47

uncharted and have like all the long term

51:49

consequences that are unfolding

51:51

yes or no may be that we should be worried about

51:53

the novel the do whatever the equivalent is now

51:55

you know and we'll we'll obviously like come to terms

51:57

with it and learn how to steal it home

52:00

the or not you know button but it is

52:02

happening we are still living in a world

52:04

where people are continuously thing

52:07

how did the he is

52:08

in public private spaces that

52:10

they think are more private than they actually

52:13

are

52:14

also in times of uncertainty it makes us

52:16

feel or it even just fills necessary

52:19

it doesn't even price all that great too the

52:22

trying to suss out the actual motivations

52:24

of everyone you see because

52:26

god knows you know a lot of other people

52:29

have lied to us recently maybe

52:32

now it's just that we're all tom cruise

52:35

we know now like isn't so

52:37

much research by lake doubting the veracity

52:39

of eyewitness accounts are like we don't remember

52:41

things correctly i do not read things

52:43

graph really were

52:44

like we just we cannot believe that

52:47

we think they like it like of we study the text close

52:49

enough the truth will be revealed and

52:52

no i don't know who know those going

52:54

on with tom cruise and there's no amount of studying

52:56

the tom cruise what else is gonna like really make

52:58

us now you know now having

53:00

access to all of this information it we all

53:02

think we can solve every puzzle every

53:04

single time mia literally hundreds of

53:06

have to tell you some of them are going to

53:08

have that are never going to now that

53:11

so emotional so emotional i guess that's

53:13

why i love magnolia so much because

53:15

it some cruz playing a character who's like

53:18

living in a world of cells to see about

53:20

his life and also his relationship with his father

53:23

then at the end we get to see him broken

53:25

down enough to be honest nina

53:27

he said his dad's death bad and i

53:30

think he says don't you die you fucking

53:32

asshole and so god i love that

53:34

movie honesty is one of the things

53:36

that we banish if we make

53:38

the world this way and i guess the know maybe

53:41

, can live without that from tom cruise

53:43

billing we need to be able to be unguarded

53:45

to some extent in our lives i feel

53:47

like a ruckus can all make a bunch

53:50

of mission impossible movies movies

53:53

is really good thing is a month i love

53:55

this month i getting close to zero

54:00

seventy magazine that are dream was to marry tom

54:03

cruise so

54:05

you know i've been in the dream making businesses

54:08

your are your in the dream making the

54:13

i don't want to disappoint