0:00

In

0:01

twenty fifteen, Vladimir Putin's number

0:04

one public enemy, Boris NEMSA, was

0:06

shot and killed in front of the Kremlin. I'm

0:08

Ben Rhodes, rider on coast of pods of

0:10

the world. And I'm teaming up with Boris's daughter,

0:12

journalist, John and I'm Silva, to tell his

0:14

story in Cricket Media's new podcast,

0:16

another rush listen and subscribe

0:18

wherever you get your podcast.

0:26

see you long I live. Oh,

0:32

yeah. We have

0:32

a wonderful show for your w songs.

0:34

But with this next song, we gave you your just

0:37

over there till we had the twenty second Street.

0:39

We use them all in this movie.

0:50

Hey, this is Patrick Madden Keith,

0:52

a host of wind of change. and

0:54

that's Klaus Mina, lead singer of the scorpions.

0:57

This is a few weeks ago in mid September

1:00

at the UBS arena, this brand

1:02

new stadium on Long Island.

1:04

The scorps are still constantly touring.

1:06

And when we heard they were going to be in town, we decided

1:08

to do a little bonus episode for wind of

1:10

change listeners. prompted in part

1:13

by the war in Ukraine. So

1:15

we're doing this episode to raise some money

1:17

to support the people of Ukraine. And

1:19

I'm here with my friend Michael. You remember

1:21

Michael. Right? He was sort of the genesis

1:24

of the original podcast. A big fan

1:26

of the finished product too. Yeah. Disappointing.

1:28

It was disappointed. It felt like at

1:30

the end you were rushed. You wanted to get

1:33

it out there. Not true. Yeah. Well,

1:35

that's not the Yeah. All the time in the world.

1:37

Well, no, you didn't. I said you needed to continue. You

1:39

could not put this thing out until you came to

1:41

some type of resolution. We weren't gonna come

1:43

to a resolution. We were. We totally were. You

1:45

were close, man. It was further worse. Follow-up,

1:47

Lowe's. You made it already. Follow ups. I hated

1:49

the Class Mine interview. I thought you did a horrible

1:51

contributor. At the time, liked

1:53

it. I know you did. I didn't like it. Why

1:55

not? I just didn't. I didn't think you like it. didn't believe

1:57

it was so not telling you the truth.

1:59

We heard a rumor that

2:02

there was some kind of connection between

2:06

the CIA and your band.

2:09

No. Have

2:11

you ever heard anything like that? No.

2:13

No.

2:15

No. You've never heard that. Never heard

2:17

that. connection issues. Between the CIA some

2:19

kind of connection to Ben.

2:22

And then there were people that you didn't interview

2:24

that you should have interview. Like, I don't know, like, I

2:26

have a list. You know,

2:28

I literally have a list. You'll have to you'll have to

2:30

give that to me. But anyway, my point is

2:32

is that you kept telling me like it's over. I

2:34

gotta move on. Like, we're not gonna be inclusion.

2:37

No. No. No. We're not gonna inclusion. And then it's just

2:39

What I was saying is, like, you know, this is an unknowable

2:41

thing. And then after this day, it's funny because

2:43

kinda I go go around -- I agree. -- you know, talking about

2:46

my book or whatever, and people will come and

2:48

say, at the end, people always say,

2:50

what do you really think? And

2:52

it's not that I have AIII

2:54

listen to that class minor interview in one day.

2:56

I think he's telling the truth in the next day. I think he's

2:58

lying. Yeah. No. He's lying. It's not that

3:00

he's lying. He's withholding truth.

3:04

No. Yeah.

3:06

Oh, come on.

3:09

You never heard this? No. I never

3:11

heard this. Are you surprised? I'm

3:14

very much surprised. Yeah.

3:16

Tell me the story.

3:17

I

3:18

don't Yep. Yes.

3:20

I'm just not sold. And doc was definitely

3:23

one. Nobody likes the fucking

3:25

kidding me. Okay? I'm

3:27

sorry. They wanna

3:29

chop the fuck it head off the cake.

3:31

I mean, I think there seems to be fairly That's the

3:33

most frustrating conversation that was recorded. Between

3:36

you and I. I just wanna understand

3:38

the origins of this whole thing and make a difference foundation.

3:41

So this grew out of your plea deal? Yes.

3:43

The make a difference foundation did.

3:45

Uh-huh. Okay?

3:47

But it

3:47

had no connection or anything with this

3:50

with the Masayama music pieces. I

3:52

brought it over. I I

3:54

put it involved when we did

3:56

the tie in between the east and the west

3:58

because the Making Difference program was

4:01

to help kids on

4:03

on alcohol and drug abuse that

4:06

I formed after my

4:08

plea deal with with

4:10

the government.

4:12

I was

4:12

disappointed given your thoughtfulness,

4:16

your skill set when it comes to

4:18

investigative You mean, in general. Just in

4:20

general. Like thinking about you, generally.

4:23

I was disappointed in the sense

4:25

that it was just so obvious that he was lying.

4:27

And then you were trying to tell me like, yeah,

4:29

this is just how stuff happens. Like, you know,

4:31

people go into the back room of the judge's office

4:33

and be like, yeah, let's bring Bon Jovi to the

4:35

high school. get him out of prison. Yeah.

4:37

That was not his demonstration. That's just absolutely not. I'm

4:39

glad that we can clear the air here. You could you know,

4:41

you can go you can leave one star review. I

4:43

did. Don't care. It's

4:48

funny. We released the podcast in

4:50

May twenty twenty, which turned out to be

4:52

a great time to put out a bingeable

4:54

digital product that people can listen to

4:56

at home. It was still early

4:59

pandemic, but right at point in lockdown

5:01

when we were starting to realize that this was

5:03

not going to be like a two week

5:05

thing that it actually might be

5:07

indefinite. People were getting

5:09

sick of spouses, sick of their roommates,

5:12

they'd already finished the Tiger King.

5:14

And while Michael's only half joking here,

5:16

He's still legitimately pissed that I wasn't

5:18

able to, Woodward and Bernstein, this conspiracy

5:21

he one hundred percent believes is real.

5:23

Part of the fun of the afterlife of

5:25

the podcast, has been hearing from

5:27

listeners with all these reactions and

5:29

alternative theories. We've heard

5:31

from musicians and metal fans

5:33

and former diplomats and spooks,

5:36

and musicologists and cold war historians,

5:38

and the full range of tin foil hat conspiracy

5:41

theorists. Some people are convinced

5:43

wind of change was definitely a

5:45

CIA op. Others

5:47

are convinced it wasn't. Others

5:49

still think maybe the Moscow Music

5:51

Festival was an influence op but not

5:53

the song. Everyone

5:55

thinks there's something fishy about doc Magee.

5:58

But one thing I've been thinking a lot about out lately

5:59

is the last time I saw the scorpions

6:02

in concert, which was

6:03

at the sports palace in Kiev

6:06

back in twenty nineteen. This

6:08

was for episode two of the podcast. And

6:10

at the time, I was so struck by the way

6:12

Ukrainian fans connected to the song,

6:15

wind of change, and its message of

6:17

freedom from oppression. He

6:19

said the Wheel of Change Day, they created the

6:21

song as far as he remembered because a

6:23

solid tune in was about to depart and it

6:25

was like, we change to that

6:27

blows into something like a

6:29

fire of evil. Wind of change

6:31

always felt like one of those time capsule

6:33

songs. a song that's just very

6:35

linked in the popular imagination to an

6:37

extremely specific moment in history.

6:40

A song about the past.

6:42

but it doesn't feel that way today.

6:45

Since this past February, when Russia

6:47

invaded Ukraine, the song has taken

6:49

on a whole new relevance. Once

6:52

again, it's been name checked and

6:54

played as this anthem of hope,

6:56

as a battle cry for humanity in

6:58

the face of tyranny and oppression.

7:01

After the war started, Klaus Meiner

7:03

actually changed the lyrics of the

7:05

song. Doing away with the famous

7:07

line, I follow the Moskva

7:10

down to Gorky Park because he

7:12

feels that they romanticize Russia.

7:14

He replaced them with the very Klouse.

7:17

Now listen to my heart it

7:19

says, Ukraine. Right

7:21

after

7:21

the invasion started in the spring,

7:24

there was this anonymous Russian whistleblower

7:27

who

7:27

purportedly works for FSB, the

7:29

successor to the KGB, and

7:31

issued a series of letters that were

7:33

harshly critical of Vladimir Putin

7:36

and the War. There

7:38

are no hopes for a victory in Ukraine.

7:40

One

7:40

of these letters said on March fourteenth.

7:43

The whistleblower

7:44

predicted back in the

7:46

spring that the invasion would be a

7:48

military disaster for Russia.

7:50

And on the basis of the past few weeks,

7:52

with Ukrainian forces making stunning

7:54

gains, reclaiming territory

7:57

to a point where Putin was forced to call for a

7:59

partial mobilization. That

8:01

prediction seems pretty on point.

8:04

Of course, the Kremlin might claim that

8:06

this anonymous whistleblower was

8:08

itself a Sayop, pro Ukrainian

8:10

propaganda. But what

8:12

interests me is the pseudonym that

8:14

this person chose to adopt, the

8:17

wind of change. So wind

8:20

of change knew that these

8:22

letters would be publicized

8:25

and, of course, who's taken

8:27

the necessary precautions to keep

8:29

his cover.

8:30

wind of change from inside the FSB

8:32

began to accelerate leaking

8:35

insider information That's

8:37

Igor Suschka who translated a series

8:39

of communicators from the whistleblower,

8:42

the so called FSB letters

8:44

because there's this objective that

8:46

you can clearly deduct from these

8:49

letters and that is to help

8:51

the west understand this

8:55

enigma that is put and

8:57

the Kremlin and Russia. He

8:59

started an organization in Washington,

9:02

the wind of change research group As

9:04

a charitable initiative, they sell rubber

9:07

wristbands that are blue and yellow

9:09

and say, wind of change.

9:11

When the scorpions play song and

9:13

come concert now, they unfurl these

9:15

huge blue and yellow Ukrainian flags.

9:17

And Klaus expresses his

9:19

solidarity with the people of Ukraine, and

9:21

fans take videos on their phones and

9:23

the clips go viral.

9:27

So what do we do here? We are

9:29

we are at the UBS

9:31

arena, which is kind of a new --

9:33

Yeah. -- new spot. It's a new

9:36

stadium primarily for a hot

9:38

The Lion

9:40

Islanders play here. We're

9:42

in this incredibly pimped out

9:44

box that Michael has somehow secured for

9:46

us. Through his connections to something

9:48

called Canaccord, I

9:50

assumed it had something to do with legal weed,

9:53

which Michael is heavily invested in, but

9:55

it turns out to be a Canadian investment

9:57

bank. He's on their board. The whole time

9:59

ago was a cannabis bank

9:59

that's beyond the bank. There is nothing to do

10:02

with cannabis. And

10:04

this is their box. This

10:06

is their box. When

10:08

we went to Ukraine in twenty

10:10

nineteen, it wasn't some hugely

10:13

deliberate choice. We were just

10:15

looking for an interesting place to see the band,

10:17

ideally in some part of the former

10:19

Soviet Union. But since the

10:21

invasion, I can't count the times I've

10:23

thought about that concert and the people we

10:25

talked to while we were tailgating in front of the

10:27

sports palace before the show.

10:29

There were those two big beefy jolly

10:31

guys, Sergei and Yuri,

10:33

drinking vodka

10:34

and 7up and singing rocky like

10:36

a hurricane. You and

10:38

my of the end of change.

10:40

Hurricane. Hurricane.

10:46

No. No. And that

10:48

group of young fans who'd driven ten hours,

10:50

all the way from Odessa, just

10:52

to see the show. It

10:54

was impossible to look at Kiev now,

10:57

preparing to defend itself and

10:59

not think of how happy and warm

11:01

and hopeful everyone one was that night.

11:03

After the show, we stopped for a beer and a

11:05

hotdog with Roman, the Ukrainian

11:07

journalist who was interpreting for us, and

11:09

the whole city just felt totally

11:12

vibrant, full of young people.

11:14

It's been awful to watch this incredible

11:16

place get torn apart, and

11:19

inspiring to witness the courage of the

11:21

Ukrainian people in rising up

11:23

and

11:23

fighting back. But

11:25

so many people are still suffering across

11:27

the region, and this felt like an opportunity

11:29

for us to do something, to help. in

11:31

some small way. We are all going

11:33

to donate that is

11:35

pineapple street crooked media

11:37

and Spotify and also can

11:39

accord. We would encourage you to please do so, give anything

11:41

you can. We're donating

11:43

to United twenty four, a global

11:46

initiative to support Ukraine that

11:48

was launched president Vladimir

11:50

Zelensky. They raised funds

11:52

for a number of different purposes. Some of

11:54

them specifically tied to the military and

11:56

the war f but the funds we're

11:58

donating are for medical aid. We've

12:00

put more details about United twenty four in

12:02

the show notes along with a link so that you

12:04

can make a donation too. My

12:06

name is Slesia. I'm from

12:08

Ukraine. I live here. Before

12:10

the

12:10

concert, Michael reached out to an

12:13

organization that has been resettling Ukrainian

12:15

refugees. in New York City

12:17

to see if there were any families that might want to

12:19

come to the show. Yeah. So we're

12:21

here with Lesia and her twin.

12:23

And my children, this is your

12:25

children, Nikolai, and stepania.

12:27

They're twins. They're

12:29

twelve. Bless you is from Keith.

12:31

She fled the country after the

12:34

invasion while her husband stayed to

12:36

fight.

12:36

My husband's military, my

12:39

husband She

12:40

got Yeah. Yeah. My husband.

12:42

Blessie explains that she crossed into

12:44

Slovakia with the kids and drove

12:46

all the way to Warsaw, where she

12:48

caught a flight to the US. She

12:50

now lives in a donated apartment in the

12:52

east village. Her kids are in New York City

12:54

public schools. They're all learning

12:56

English. The war has been

12:58

brutal for her family.

12:59

my my cousin from

13:02

you Russian,

13:04

my cousin from Moscow and left

13:07

Moscow. Yeah. No speaking.

13:09

No speaking. No call me. No call

13:11

me.

13:12

I call to

13:15

assist, please, help, please

13:17

understand my situation. No.

13:20

Information, TV, information,

13:23

some of your in

13:25

permission, Russian TV. This

13:27

is big, big problem. But as

13:29

it

13:29

turns out, she's a scorpions

13:32

fan. Yes.

13:32

This is Skorpion. III

13:36

go to Skorpion's concert to

13:38

see Ukrainian.

13:39

Wow. But you've already seen them play.

13:41

there. Yeah. Amazing. This

13:43

is the best. This is surprise my

13:45

friends. This is I know.

13:46

We're also busy chatting that we

13:49

almost missed the big moment.

13:51

and have to scramble to get outside

13:53

as the band starts wind

13:56

of change.

13:58

I

13:59

think we should go out. I think we should go out. I hope you're there if I wonder

14:02

chance we're going out. We're going out to begin today. I'm

14:04

gonna leave this right here.

14:08

the that what an hour

14:48

It's

14:52

a good crowd. Scorpion

14:55

fans show up. and Klaus

14:57

is bellowing out the song, giving it

14:59

everything he has, prancing around

15:01

the stage in that ageless,

15:03

eel thin very sincere

15:05

way of his. And the jumbo

15:07

digital screens are awash now

15:09

in the colors of the Ukrainian

15:11

flag. And I look over at

15:13

Lesia, who has been

15:14

having a blast all evening, just letting

15:16

her hair down and dancing and

15:18

singing along. and as the

15:20

band plays wind of change, she's

15:22

sobbing. My wife,

15:24

Justina, is with us, and she

15:26

goes over and gives Lecia a hug. and

15:28

we all stand there swaying to the

15:30

music. And I'm reminded again

15:32

that whatever you believe about the origins

15:34

of the song and whether it's true

15:36

art or a CIA eye up

15:38

or just a catchy metal ballad.

15:40

It has

15:41

this power that is undeniable. I

15:43

think

15:44

these days, maybe especially

15:46

as Americans, we're not used to

15:48

relating to music in this kind of

15:50

direct, sincere, sentimental

15:53

way. But part of the reason it's

15:55

believable that wind of change might have been propaganda

15:57

or that some

15:58

people at the CIA might have

15:59

wanted to take credit for it is that it

16:02

had such a sweeping emotional impact

16:04

on the people who listen to it. Watching

16:07

Lecia react to the song, I feel like

16:09

I can better understand how all

16:11

this lore has come to surround

16:13

him. Wow.

16:19

That's intense. Was intense.

16:21

Yeah. It was Yeah.

16:24

I

16:24

mean, it's funny as, like, nobody's

16:27

more cynical than me, but I You

16:29

know, I find that I'm I'm

16:31

moved by I don't know.

16:52

Can you see me

16:53

one more time? Well,

17:01

did you

17:04

hear enough tomorrow?

17:20

Thank

17:22

you for tuning into this bonus

17:24

episode. As

17:24

I mentioned, we're all making donations to

17:27

United twenty four. And if you could please do

17:29

the same, in whatever amount you're

17:31

able, it would make a real difference to the people

17:33

of Ukraine. gone through unimaginable

17:35

suffering over the last eight

17:37

months. We've made it super easy for you.

17:39

Just click the link in the show notes and make a

17:41

donation today. A

17:43

big thank you to Michael Shender Auerbach and to

17:45

Canaccord Genuity for providing the

17:47

suite. A particular thanks to

17:49

Lecia for coming out and sharing her

17:51

story with us. and to everyone at

17:53

Pineapple Street Studios, Crooked

17:55

Media, and Spotify. This

17:57

episode was produced by Natalie Brennan and

17:59

Henry

17:59

Malofsky. and edited by Joel Level. I'm

18:02

Patrick and Keith. So

18:04

long.