0:00

Hello, everybody. I

0:18

had the opportunity today

0:20

to talk to Mr. Mossab

0:23

Hassan Yousaf, who's

0:25

a very complicated

0:28

person. He spent a lot of his life north

0:31

of Jerusalem. His

0:34

father, Isheik Hassan

0:36

Yousaf, who's a co-founder of Hamas,

0:41

he told me that he loved his father but

0:43

came to believe that his orientation

0:46

in the world was deeply misguided. He

0:50

said the same thing about his culture in

0:52

general. I had a

0:54

very brutal childhood. He

0:57

grew up during a sequence of

0:59

Antifatas, became conversant

1:02

with bloodshed and the death

1:05

of children at a very early age in

1:08

his life. That isn't the worst

1:10

of it by a large

1:12

margin. He started

1:15

to work for the Israeli

1:18

intelligence in 1997. He

1:21

was born in 1978 and

1:24

was a very reliable source for

1:26

them in relationship to the doings

1:28

of Hamas. He

1:31

involved himself in the prevention

1:33

of suicide bombings, most particularly.

1:38

We talk quite

1:41

broadly about the situation

1:43

in the Middle East, about the culture that he

1:45

was raised in, about the

1:48

transformation of his attitude towards Israel

1:52

as a state, the

1:55

Israelis as people, his

1:57

understanding of what constituted Palestine.

2:00

and the general situation in the Middle

2:03

East. It's a very

2:05

intense interview to say the least. I

2:07

suppose part of what I walked

2:09

away from it concluding was that, you

2:12

know, fools rush in where

2:14

angels fear to tread, and everybody has an

2:17

opinion about Israel

2:19

and Gaza, and most

2:21

of us don't have the

2:23

wisdom or the experience to

2:27

do anything but remain silent in the

2:29

face of what's happening there. You

2:32

can watch, listen to, Osama

2:35

bin al-Saf and draw

2:37

your own conclusions about the catastrophe

2:40

unfolding in the Middle East. His

2:44

conclusion was that alliance

2:47

with the Israelis is the best pathway

2:49

forward, not only for the West,

2:51

but for the Arab world. There's many

2:53

people in the Arab world who believe that as

2:55

well. You know, that's why the Abraham Accords are

2:58

holding in face, even in the

3:00

face of Iran's attempts to

3:02

tear that accord to shreds.

3:05

So, buckle up, it's

3:07

a wild ride. So,

3:10

obviously there's a terrible mess in the Middle

3:12

East, and everybody has an opinion about it,

3:15

but everyone's

3:18

also woefully under, what

3:21

would you call it, underinformed

3:25

with regards to the situation there, because

3:27

it's unbelievably complicated. And

3:30

so, I think people take sides and

3:32

make opinions without knowing

3:35

the first thing about what's actually happening. And

3:37

so, I want to ask you a bunch

3:39

of, like, really basic questions, and

3:43

we can flesh out the

3:45

landscape for everybody who's watching and listening. So,

3:47

the first question I'd like to ask you

3:50

is, what is

3:52

Hamas exactly? How would you

3:54

characterize it? You know, before

3:56

actually we say, what is Hamas? what

4:00

is Palestine? Okay,

4:03

because Palestine is non-existention.

4:08

And it was never a country. It's

4:11

not ethnic group. It's

4:13

not a religion. It's not a faith. It's

4:16

a colonial entity created

4:18

by the British that

4:20

lived for about 25 years. And

4:25

Jews, Arabs, Druze,

4:27

Christians, Zionists, were

4:32

called Palestinians before

4:35

the termination of

4:38

the British Mandate. It

4:40

was called the British Mandate of

4:42

Palestine. So the Mandate

4:44

itself had

4:47

the name Palestine. Now,

4:49

this is all taking place after World War One,

4:52

after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

4:54

Right, right, right. So the empire collapses.

4:58

There's questions about how the

5:00

political boundaries should be drawn,

5:04

the British establish

5:08

this state known as

5:10

Palestine. So what

5:13

should people think about that? Exactly. Like, what

5:15

do you think people should think about the

5:17

fact that the British were involved? I mean,

5:19

they won World War One and the Ottoman

5:21

Empire collapsed. So there was some mopping up

5:23

to do and often those things are done

5:26

in a hurry and with less

5:28

than optimal information, let's say. Well,

5:33

the Ottoman Empire continued for about 400

5:36

years. During that time, they

5:38

ethnically cleansed the Jewish people from

5:40

their land, which explains why

5:42

the Jewish people were all over the place. After

5:46

World War One and

5:49

all the atrocities and the persecution

5:51

of Jewish people, they filled the

5:53

need to seek a refuge and

5:56

the homeland was the best option

5:58

for the Jewish people. Now,

6:01

this led to clashes between

6:03

the colonizer, which was the

6:05

British Empire, and the

6:08

Jewish people. The Jewish people fought

6:10

for their independence, and they shed blood in

6:12

the process. Also the Arabs did

6:14

the same. In 1948,

6:16

when the United Nations

6:21

divided the land, given

6:23

the opportunity to the Jews and the

6:25

Arabs to build and

6:27

establish their own states, the

6:31

Jews declared their independence, but

6:34

the Arabs declared war against the

6:36

Jews. And

6:39

I think this is a very important point

6:41

to understand. There

6:44

was no such thing as Palestine. And

6:48

when we talk about the British

6:50

mandate of Palestine, it was never

6:52

a state. It was just a

6:55

transitional period from

6:57

the collapse of the Ottoman Empire to

7:01

the termination of

7:03

the British mandate. And that was

7:05

less than 28 years. So

7:08

that termination was in 1948? In

7:10

1947. OK.

7:15

So, why in

7:17

your estimation weren't

7:19

two states established at that time? State

7:23

for the Palestinian Arabs and a state

7:25

for the Jews? From

7:30

a Muslim point of view, and this is where it

7:32

gets tricky, this is where nobody wants to talk about,

7:35

the ideological religious dimension of

7:37

this war. From

7:41

Islamic point of view, the

7:43

Al-Aqsa Mosque and the surrounding

7:45

areas does not define boundary.

7:49

The surrounding areas could be 100 miles, could

7:51

be 500 miles. It's

7:55

an Islamic trust that

7:57

no Muslim leader has the authority. to

8:00

give it away to the non-Muslims. So

8:03

when the Jewish people returned to their homeland,

8:08

the Muslims outraged. And

8:11

that's the most fundamental reason and

8:13

motive for the Arabs and Muslims

8:15

to fight against Israel, because

8:18

they consider that territory

8:20

as an Islamic land. Right.

8:23

And now it's the mosque that's built

8:26

on what was the capital of Mount,

8:29

exactly. Actually, the history

8:31

of the mosque is about approximately

8:33

1300 years. But

8:36

the Jewish Temple beneath is

8:38

a lot older than that. And the

8:40

Jewish ruins in Judea and

8:43

Samaria are still erected, actually. And

8:46

the Jewish people have overwhelming

8:48

evidence of

8:50

artifacts and archeology

8:54

that support

8:57

their existence over centuries, millennia.

9:01

But the Muslims don't. There

9:04

is no currency. There is no book. There is

9:06

no Bible. There is only a building that is

9:08

1300 years old. And

9:13

this is why for the Jewish

9:15

people don't have a problem in

9:17

principle, co-exists with other ethnic groups, like

9:21

even the Zionist movement did

9:23

not have a problem to have a two-state

9:25

solution back in the day, while

9:29

the Muslims refused completely

9:31

having Jewish existence on that land.

9:35

The same way in Mecca, non-Muslims

9:37

are not allowed to enter Mecca,

9:39

even to drive through Mecca. The

9:42

same thing, they want the situation to be

9:44

in Jerusalem. How

9:47

did you come to these conclusions? I

9:50

don't imagine this is how you looked at the world

9:52

when you were young. So

9:56

how did you come to these conclusions? I

9:59

understand that your father was a Jewish. Sheik

10:01

Hassan Yousaf is a co-founder of Hamas. So

10:04

obviously that's complicated to say

10:06

the least. So when

10:09

did, tell me how you looked

10:11

at things when you were a young man and

10:13

then what

10:16

events in your life started to change your mind?

10:20

Since I was very young, I had, how

10:22

old are you now? I'm 45 years old.

10:24

45, okay. Okay, so you were born

10:26

in about 1980? 1978, Shavri-8, yeah. So

10:32

we had critical thinking from

10:34

the early beginning of my

10:36

life. When the

10:38

mullah told the

10:41

funeral crowd that the

10:43

angels of heaven are going to come

10:46

back and interrogate

10:48

this deceased in the grave,

10:53

and they're going to bring his soul back. They're going

10:56

to torture him. And if he does not answer the

10:58

right question, it's going to be an

11:00

open hill. I

11:02

went back to the graveyard and I investigated. I

11:04

was only 10 years old. And

11:08

since that point of my life, I

11:11

did not find death intimidating as

11:13

much as actually became my drive

11:16

to seek a higher truth. It

11:18

led me to vision. So tell me about that again.

11:21

I don't understand that story exactly. What

11:23

event was that? So basically in

11:25

the Islamic belief, there

11:28

is something called the grave torture. This

11:31

is a device that religious authorities

11:33

use to control the Muslim

11:37

population. When

11:40

the person dies in the

11:42

grave, supposedly there is

11:44

torture and there is interrogation. If

11:47

the person doesn't know

11:49

who is his God, who is his

11:51

prophet, if he failed to answer the

11:53

questions regarding the religion, they're

11:56

going to be tortured

11:59

painfully. They're like

12:01

a last judgment sort of. Yeah,

12:04

but it happens in the transitional

12:06

period. So

12:10

because people die, you know, and they've

12:12

been dying for thousands of years. So

12:14

when the afterlife hill is going to

12:16

happen, which is a fundamental thing

12:20

in Italy, the afterlife heaven

12:22

and hill. So

12:25

many people die. And

12:28

is there torture? So they come up with the

12:30

story that there is a great torture. Whether

12:33

Muhammad said this or not, but

12:35

it's widely believed in the Islamic

12:37

faith. And many

12:40

people are afraid. When I was very young, I

12:43

asked all my friends to go back with me to the

12:45

cemetery and none of

12:48

them agreed. And

12:50

when I went back, I was terrified. Eventually

12:56

I did not hear any screaming, any

12:59

torture. And I put my ear to

13:01

the ground trying to do

13:03

this alone. I did this alone because nobody,

13:05

none of my friends would come back with

13:07

me to the graveyard who I'm terrified. Just

13:09

during the day, it was during

13:11

the day, during the day. But eventually I found

13:14

my peace even at nighttime. And

13:17

this might sound a bit psychic, but

13:21

I reached the point that was

13:23

my challenge to myself was

13:26

I able to lay down in

13:28

an open grave and look at

13:30

the stars at midnight. How

13:32

old were you when you did that? I

13:34

was maybe 12, 13 years old. What

13:37

do you think drove you to do that? It's

13:39

my fear of death. Yeah. Because

13:41

the entire culture... Usually people avoid it

13:43

rather than confronting it. Well, it sounds

13:45

strange, but this is when I made

13:48

peace with death. And this

13:50

is actually what empowered me throughout my

13:52

journey. Right?

13:55

So that's very young when you did that. Yes. How

13:58

Many times did you go visit a grave? So, basically, we... We'll

14:00

just a nice to the

14:02

graveyard. And

14:05

that this this is not

14:07

actually. The most important

14:09

sake of observing desk and.

14:12

Have an. Early age

14:14

encounter with this. That.

14:17

The first, but a second intifada

14:19

started. When. I was living in that

14:21

neighborhood. So.

14:24

And you were living where? Exactly Right

14:26

next to the cemetery? Okay so here's

14:28

the Summit Symmetry war and he is

14:30

my eyes my a bit. Okay

14:32

and where are you geographically located at

14:35

her death say or mullah Under as

14:37

below. To

14:39

the north of doesn't okay to see

14:41

the capital of of what's in a

14:44

person of. Focus Okay so

14:46

you're north of Jerusalem? yes right. But

14:48

but this was we were of the

14:51

hearts of the conflict and now or

14:53

the blood. Sit on the youngsters guts

14:55

his shots during the first person to

14:57

father we have buried next door. So.

15:02

I guarantee you that there is no one.

15:05

In that conflict that witnessed firsthand once

15:08

it as much as it did as

15:10

a top. Hundreds.

15:14

Of people were buried next or. Whether.

15:16

They died naturally. Or they died because

15:18

of the conflict or. Internal.

15:21

Conflict between some ass and said the wedding

15:23

or they saw each other or stabbed each

15:25

other. So. The

15:28

entire conflict conflict was displayed in

15:30

front of my eyes as a

15:32

time. And

15:34

the I couldn't find the a

15:37

stronger motive. Why? Are we

15:39

suffering? Why are we die? And who's doing

15:41

this to us? Of.

15:44

Course, The narrative on the fencing is

15:46

that this is Israel. This is the

15:48

Jewish people getting us. And.

15:51

As a child, I did not have the power to

15:53

decide. to see i

15:55

have to how could i same thing

15:57

with the children known guts they

16:01

suffer the consequences of war,

16:04

but they don't realize or understand

16:06

how the war originated. So

16:09

in that situation, I had

16:11

the trauma of the First Palestinian Antifada

16:13

and all the memories. Stay with

16:15

me. This is what empowers me to carry on. That

16:18

was when about that would be 1987. 1987

16:21

to 1992 and 1990. What's

16:28

the definition of Antifada? Chaos.

16:32

People call it uprising, but the very

16:34

definition, not only of Antifada, or

16:37

Palestine, very similar definitions, it's

16:40

chaos, it's disorder, it's

16:42

anti-establishment. How

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17:51

as a artifact sitting

17:53

in Tunisia. This is supposed to

17:55

be the father of the Palestinian

17:58

revolution. who

18:00

died with like four billion dollars that

18:02

a lot more a lot more a

18:05

yes or a fact That was

18:07

an Egyptian con artist. He

18:09

was born in Egypt with an

18:11

Egyptian accident It

18:14

was so obvious to know that he's

18:16

Egyptian but everybody was in denial that

18:18

he's Palestinian and he is the

18:20

father of the Palestinian Revolution After

18:25

they were kicked out of Jordan of

18:27

Lebanon and the end of Indonesia some

18:30

2,000 miles away They

18:35

came up with the idea to engineer the

18:37

Intifada they wanted trouble but from

18:39

within They knew that this

18:42

could be a lot more effective than trying

18:44

to destroy Israel

18:46

from outside And

18:49

they sent children to die this has been

18:51

their mechanism their strategy and who is they

18:53

when I say they All

18:56

those who are complicit in

18:58

this continuous crime All

19:01

those who sacrifice children For

19:06

power and for money It's

19:08

a fundamental part of that culture. We have

19:11

to understand this first was the ideological dimension

19:13

that I told you about then Sacrificing

19:16

children is not something

19:18

that makes them feel guilty. It's

19:21

acceptable in that culture um,

19:24

so now as

19:26

a student Mask men used

19:28

to come and we were just Fifth

19:31

and sixth grade. We were very young and

19:34

we forced all students To

19:37

evacuate the school. They paralyzed

19:39

the educational system. They

19:42

paralyzed economy Transportation

19:45

and they wanted complete chaos

19:48

another today. I asked myself If

19:51

you were fighting against israel, why

19:53

would you stop the education and the

19:55

economy and the and all other? aspects

19:58

of the life in the

20:00

West Bank. This

20:03

is what Intifada means. So

20:06

instead of going to school,

20:08

we stayed at

20:10

home for the first two or three years

20:13

of the first Palestinian Intifada.

20:16

We did not go to school. Now,

20:19

instead, many

20:21

of the children got engaged in

20:24

stone throwing, and this became our game.

20:26

I was part of that game. Many

20:28

of my friends got shot in the

20:30

process throwing stones at the IDF or

20:35

what we used to call them settlers, just

20:38

clashing. Of course, many

20:41

civilians got hurt in the process.

20:45

So they did not

20:47

want us to go to school, and I did not understand

20:49

why. What about the economy?

20:51

What about the people who

20:53

were forced to shut down their

20:55

stores, and if they did not obey, they

20:58

became traitors. In the

21:01

morning, they came back to their stores,

21:03

and they were burnt down to ashes.

21:06

So by the means of intimidation, Yasser

21:09

Arafat sitting in

21:12

luxury, like Hanin

21:14

Yatodeh sitting in luxury in Qatar. And

21:17

what's in common between all these con artists

21:20

that they were outsiders,

21:22

living outside while

21:25

they wanted the children to die on their

21:27

behalf? Because what really globalized

21:30

the Intifada or the

21:32

Palestinian cause is

21:37

the children. During

21:39

the first Palestinian Intifada, when the

21:41

world saw a child in the

21:43

face of

21:46

a modern army, that

21:48

was outrageous, and everybody sympathized

21:51

with the cause. So

21:53

how did the leaders

21:56

of the Intifada benefit personally from

22:00

Putting children on the front line. How

22:02

what's the money pipeline precisely? Aerofat

22:05

ended up with an absolute bloody fortune like

22:07

an insane fortune and I know the same

22:09

thing is happening But how exactly is that

22:12

monetized? It's the suffering of children

22:15

Produces an influx of foreign

22:17

aid that's then then that's

22:19

then pocketed essentially Yes,

22:22

because on one hand they Delegitimize

22:26

Israel. Hmm. It's right. But

22:28

become a child killer, right?

22:30

Right then

22:33

There is no one in the world That

22:36

does not sympathize with children

22:38

dying. Right? So there is

22:40

no more destructive

22:43

or powerful weapon in the

22:45

hands of Corrupt

22:50

Revolution That

22:54

don't want to fight they don't have the

22:56

courage to actually fight in

22:58

combat. Mm-hmm But

23:00

they prefer that their children would die on

23:02

their behalf in the meantime delegitimize

23:05

Israel and globalize

23:08

their cause The

23:11

international community Don't

23:13

know the reality 100% on the

23:15

ground. They don't understand this game

23:17

even up to now They see

23:19

Hamas using children as a human shield, which is

23:22

very obvious. This is what Hamas

23:24

wanted from this war The

23:28

international community is still in denial a

23:32

so when sugar and I

23:35

this this will lead to more chaos it

23:37

would lead to war would lead to Today

23:40

a global chaos. Well, how do

23:43

you deflate the tension? You

23:46

deflate the tension by going to

23:48

the middleman pay him

23:50

off and he's going to Stop

23:54

the madness. Hmm. And this

23:56

is how they paid off. Yes, or are fair

23:58

paid off Hamas This

24:00

is the Gaza war today. This is

24:02

not the first one. This is the

24:05

first one. And every time Hamas started

24:07

the war, they used human

24:09

shields. Children died. Hamas exaggerated

24:11

the numbers, the statistics. They

24:14

weren't accurate. The international community

24:16

bent over and

24:18

submitted to a ceasefire, which

24:21

basically guaranteed Hamas staying in power. Now,

24:24

how do you silence Hamas for a while? By

24:26

giving them lots of money. But

24:29

this time Hamas thought they could double

24:31

that on

24:34

human ships by putting booby traps

24:36

all over the place. Schools,

24:39

hospitals, mosques. They did not

24:42

leave any secret location in

24:46

Gaza without using it as a

24:48

shooting path. They

24:51

could begin hundreds of miles of tunnels

24:54

beneath one of the most populated areas

24:56

on Earth. How

25:00

come that wasn't widely known? How come that

25:02

wasn't widely known in the West? Well, this

25:04

is obvious. This is obvious, but the world

25:06

is in denial because it's much easier to

25:08

condemn Israel. When we have close

25:11

to 2 billion Muslims repeating

25:13

a certain narrative, a

25:16

forced narrative that is baseless, that says,

25:18

Palestine. And we say the very foundation

25:20

of this narrative, there's no such thing

25:22

as Palestine. It never existed. But

25:25

everybody suddenly became a

25:27

pro-Palestine. It fits

25:29

into the oppressed narrative. It's

25:32

the victim narrative. It's a

25:34

victim mentality. Even in

25:36

the United States, the anti-bankers, those who

25:39

are in debt or anti-establishment, communists,

25:42

feminists, Islamists

25:46

are coming in the same

25:48

room protesting or opposing as

25:50

pro-Palestine. Well, what is Palestine?

25:52

You are extreme

25:55

opposites that you should

25:57

not be in the same avenue. At

26:01

all. Without Israel, you

26:03

would be conspiring to destroy each

26:05

other. Yes, yes. And you can

26:07

mean this clearly. But suddenly now

26:09

you are pairing. So

26:11

this phenomenon of Palestine, it

26:13

just basically shows you falsehood

26:16

versus truth. Yeah,

26:18

well there's something really fundamental to that

26:20

victim-victimizer narrative, right? That's underlying all of

26:22

this. If you can tap

26:25

into that, then you get all the, well you

26:27

certainly get all the left-wing radicals on your side

26:29

instantly. Because they're of course 100% bought

26:32

into the victim-victimizer narrative. And it

26:35

enables them to explain the world and also

26:38

to be moral. Because all you have to

26:40

do is identify with the hypothetical victim. The

26:43

thing I see happening in Palestine, and you

26:45

can clear up any misconceptions on my part,

26:47

is like, I've thought for

26:49

decades that the Palestinians are sacrificial victims

26:52

for any outside powers that want

26:54

to delegitimize Israel. And it

26:57

doesn't matter how many Palestinians die,

26:59

because they're essentially expendable. And

27:01

that seems to me particularly too in relationship to

27:03

Iran. So it's

27:06

completely in Iran's fundamental

27:09

interest to foment this chaos

27:11

that you described. It's not in the best

27:13

interest of the Palestinians in anything like the

27:15

media to the long run, but it doesn't

27:17

matter. As long as the trouble keeps occurring.

27:20

It's hard on Israel. It's hard on the

27:22

United States. It helps

27:25

Iran maintain its

27:27

iron grip. It

27:30

seems to me obvious that many people in the Arab

27:32

world are waking up to that, have woken up to

27:34

that. I think

27:37

that's why the Abraham Accords have more or less

27:39

held through this. Because there

27:41

are powerful forces

27:44

allied against Iran

27:47

most fundamentally. But it's in their

27:49

best interest to keep the misery

27:51

in Palestine going as long as

27:54

it possibly can. And

27:56

my suspicions are that what happened on

27:58

October 7th was... command

28:00

directly, please, you know, feel

28:02

free to disagree with me, but this is how it looks to

28:05

me, is that the Iranians

28:07

decided that it was time to stir

28:09

the pot and they produced this massacre

28:11

and they hope they'd provoke Israel into

28:13

exactly the sort of reaction that Israel

28:15

is having and that Israel

28:18

would take the threat extraordinarily seriously and

28:20

move in and as their

28:22

military victory mounted, public opinion would turn

28:24

against them and it would fragment the

28:26

Abraham Accords. I suspect that was their

28:29

plan. What do you think about that?

28:31

Is that in accordance with your understanding of

28:33

the situation? Absolutely. This

28:37

is Iran's attempt to actually rearrange

28:39

the region. Right. But

28:42

I don't want to go too

28:45

far that also China and Russia

28:47

have ambition of reshaping

28:49

the world. Yes. Yes,

28:52

changing the world order. Yes. But we don't

28:54

want to go too far. No. The

28:56

United States, God only knows how that's going to turn out,

28:58

but it's basically Iran,

29:01

Russia, China. They made it

29:03

very clear that they don't

29:05

want the United States monopoly

29:07

over power. They want to

29:09

change the world order. Putin

29:12

understands, he understands

29:15

completely what it really meant for Hamas

29:17

to go and ethnically cleanse 20 Jewish

29:20

communities. And it

29:22

was not coincidental right after

29:24

the Ukraine-Russian war where all

29:26

the attention was at

29:29

your end.

29:32

We saw after what happened in Gaza,

29:34

nobody talked about Ukraine. Right. Right. Right.

29:36

Right. When you bring

29:38

the three major religions and

29:42

make them clash

29:44

somehow, Hamas was the

29:46

trigger. I

29:49

doubt that Hamas understands

29:51

the KGB and Putin's

29:54

play, but

29:56

they are part of it. And

29:59

Putin is complicit. in this

30:01

situation. So

30:03

Iran does not act on its own, you

30:05

know, when they launched, for example, hundreds of

30:08

ballistic missiles in the

30:10

21st century, this is a major attack.

30:16

I haven't witnessed this in our lifetime. Maybe here

30:18

in the Iraqi war, but it was not on

30:21

this scale. So

30:23

anyway, yes, these people don't care

30:25

for the global security. They are

30:27

irresponsible. And worse than this,

30:30

that we have experience with the

30:33

communists or let's say communist Islamic

30:35

ideologies that they reached at the

30:37

end, they failed. The

30:40

communist Islamic model did

30:43

not bear fruit. It

30:46

did not emancipate humanity, did not solve

30:49

the human problem. And

30:51

they still insist on replacing

30:53

capitalism. Yeah, I don't think

30:56

capitalism is the perfect solution,

30:58

but it's the better option for sure.

31:01

So anyway, they insisting and they want

31:05

this to keep going. And

31:08

when we have a weak leadership,

31:11

with due respect, the

31:14

Biden administration is not

31:16

showing leadership. And

31:19

in the Muslim culture, the Arab culture,

31:23

they don't understand tolerance. There is no such

31:25

a thing. Not

31:27

in the Muslim consciousness, maybe

31:29

forgiveness, but not tolerance. And

31:32

tolerance is mostly perceived as weakness.

31:36

And I speak as someone who grew up

31:38

in that culture. So every

31:40

time, you know, when Trump was there,

31:42

for example, everybody was terrified of him,

31:45

unpredictable. And

31:47

you don't know what he's going

31:49

to do next. So he moved

31:51

the American embassy to Jerusalem. Nobody

31:53

there, even to shalom. Yeah, right.

31:56

Yes, Not even riots or any of that. Right.

31:58

Yeah. But

32:01

now a. The.

32:03

Obama administration in now the

32:05

Biden as mysteries. And.

32:09

The. Americans and the American power of

32:12

is not. Even able

32:14

to ram. Guess. The

32:16

A One of the things that appalled me

32:18

when when Biden took office is that I've

32:21

been following the Abraham records quite closely because

32:23

I thought they were. Not. Really quite

32:25

the miracle. And I knew. From.

32:27

Talking to people who are involved

32:29

first hand that the Saudis were

32:31

very interested in having that process

32:33

continues and very inclined to sign

32:36

on. And my sense with

32:38

the by the administration was at

32:40

that. Got saddled because. The

32:42

democrats were completely unwilling to give Trump

32:45

any credit for anything he did during

32:47

his mistress, and I thought that was

32:49

absolutely unforgivable because it would have been.

32:52

And and the Democrats to the pull this

32:54

off. They could have brought Saudi Arabia into

32:56

the Abraham Points. And the me.

32:59

Squandered. The opportunity. And.

33:01

Not. Complete Tasks V As far as I'm

33:03

concerned and unforgivable catastrophe. And you know, here

33:06

we are now as a consequence of at

33:08

least in part, let's go back to when

33:10

you were thirteenth. I won't take up the

33:12

threat of that store. It's okay, so you're.

33:14

You're. Seeing all this catastrophe, this chaos

33:16

that you describe redound to the

33:18

benefit of the con men who

33:20

are running the show for example

33:22

and that is there to did

33:25

legitimize. Israel

33:27

and and the United States. And to read

33:29

down to the credit, let's say the Iranians

33:31

offering the backgrounds you're seeing all the consequences

33:33

of this first hand. You decide that. For.

33:37

A Cop variety. Complicated reasons: You decide

33:39

that you're going to face your fear

33:41

of death. You have

33:43

this graveyard next. You're going

33:45

there. To. Investigate into

33:48

experiment. What was the consequence

33:50

of doing that for you? And then. How

33:52

does that tie in with your transformation

33:54

of. Worldview. Overtime.

33:59

Well. as a And this is

34:01

stuff I don't like to talk about

34:03

because I choose not to be a

34:05

victim. Yeah. So I don't like to

34:07

become vulnerable because people think that you

34:09

are weak. Stuff

34:12

that I don't have to talk about, but I think there

34:14

is no way around it because

34:17

many people ask, you know, what motivates you and

34:19

where are you coming from? When

34:23

I was very, very young, I was raped

34:27

in a culture, in a

34:29

culture that

34:32

would kill the rapist, but

34:37

also they would kill the rape

34:40

victim. So

34:44

I never told anybody about

34:46

that story. I never got any support.

34:48

And how old were you? I was five or

34:51

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36:00

opportunity. In

36:03

a society that did not have mercy

36:05

that they pursued that I would disappear

36:07

it's I don't bring same on the

36:09

right. An. Eyewitness: So many

36:11

women. Been.

36:13

Killed. After. Being raped

36:16

month that the father would proceed

36:18

to kill his daughter. To

36:22

bury. The same with her.

36:25

Not to have to face the society that

36:27

his daughter was. What?

36:30

Type of mentality? Is this? What Type of religions?

36:32

This and this is not just a cult. Oh

36:35

okay, does it reflect on his inability

36:37

to protect and serve as the same

36:39

as his status. It isn't as it

36:41

is is the father of a he

36:43

could not protect his dorothea. Yeah.

36:46

And they now a maybe the

36:48

daughter is pregnant this was before

36:50

abortion is okay this that daughter

36:52

is pregnant What is he going

36:54

to do with the time know

36:56

he possessed kinda daughter? He does

36:58

not want to go events to

37:00

the to the degree that is

37:02

grants file. Is

37:04

a result of a very

37:07

bright as. So.

37:11

And the from. The some essential.

37:14

A Islam. Or

37:17

in in Arabia the killed that

37:19

instance. Is. So when

37:21

a seat sacrifices symptom and

37:24

is not a coincidence that

37:26

says. It's rooted in that got.

37:31

So for me it was

37:33

in just. That. I had

37:35

to. Actually. Get. Is a burden

37:38

sort of getting the support from the

37:40

family. From. The society like as

37:42

is come and see who did it.

37:45

Today. I'm forty five years old. I'm very

37:47

strong man. I can confront

37:49

the whole universe is necessary. And

37:52

up to now none of them asked the question.

37:54

Who did it. And

37:57

by the way, I have the power! To.

37:59

work the predator down

38:02

there. He's probably living in a nightmare. Why

38:04

I didn't actually harm him? Because later on,

38:06

I got lots of power even

38:08

when I was back in the territory, but I choose not

38:10

to. Instead of going

38:12

after the rapist, I

38:15

went after the belief system. And

38:19

this is where I need to create the change. I

38:22

see. So you, the what's so

38:24

called the Islam. And

38:27

I know this is very sensitive talk.

38:30

If the belief system, if Allah thinks

38:33

that the rapist and the rape

38:36

are equal and they deserve the

38:38

same punishment, then this God does

38:40

not have authority over my life. And

38:43

this is where I start questioning the

38:45

entire belief system. And I rebelled. How

38:48

come you're still alive? Well, they

38:50

tried to kill me and they're still trying

38:52

to. They have been trying

38:54

to assassinate me politically, at least

38:56

all this progressives and Muslim

38:59

Brotherhood wearing all

39:01

type of masks in the United States. They

39:04

have been trying to discredit me. So I

39:06

cannot even speak for myself to defend myself

39:08

because I'm speaking on behalf of all the

39:10

wounded children in the region. And I know

39:12

their game and I know they don't care

39:14

for the children. Instead,

39:17

my father sacrificed me. He said, this is not

39:20

my son. And I don't know if you want

39:22

to kill him. His blood is allowed. So

39:26

when you have to choose between a

39:28

hypothetical God that does not even exist

39:31

and the future of children or your

39:33

own child, well, we have

39:35

a fundamental problem here. Then you come posing

39:37

to tell the rest of the universe that

39:39

Islam is a religion of peace. Well, no,

39:41

we have a big problem here. We have

39:43

to talk about it. And when I start

39:46

talking about this, I

39:48

got canceled. Yeah,

39:51

you got canceled. So and

39:54

now I'm labeled Islam of all

39:57

Islam of all I'm confronting this

39:59

thing. and I'm willing to

40:01

die in its pursuit because there

40:04

is no other way. Only the truth can set

40:06

people free. Only the truth. The

40:08

same thing with Palestine. It

40:11

totally depends on the destruction of Israel

40:14

in order for us to see what Palestine

40:16

is. And

40:18

the manifestation of Palestine

40:20

requires the destruction

40:23

of Israel. Same thing with the Islamic State.

40:26

It requires the destruction of

40:28

civilization. All

40:30

civilizations combine in

40:32

order to achieve this global state

40:35

called Qilafah. But

40:38

we don't know how it is going to look

40:40

like then. We have

40:43

first to die. For them to

40:45

live, then they can prove themselves.

40:49

If there is anything

40:54

that defines madness, this is

40:56

madness. So you were

40:58

hurt very badly when you were very young and then

41:00

you lived through the Antifada. You

41:04

were right beside the graveyard. You

41:08

decided that you were going to confront death

41:10

relatively directly and overcome your fear of it.

41:12

You were doing some religious

41:14

experimentation really at the same time then. You

41:16

said that you were testing out

41:19

this hypothesis that there was torture in

41:21

the grave. You did that

41:23

alone because your friends wouldn't come along

41:25

with you, which is hardly surprising. So

41:28

you said that you also

41:30

decided with regards to being

41:32

raped that the

41:34

proper response to that wasn't to go

41:36

after the person specifically who was responsible,

41:38

but to go after something deeper than

41:40

that, which was the belief system that

41:42

gave rise to this problem. All

41:47

right, so now you're 13. Are

41:50

these ideas already in your imagination? When

41:53

was it that you started sorting this out? Some

41:58

of them were in the form of... feelings, just

42:01

a gut feeling. I

42:04

did not have the means to express them, but

42:06

I knew them. It

42:09

was not coincidental that I could not tell

42:11

my own father about the situation, but later

42:13

on I knew that my punishment is death.

42:19

So today I have

42:21

the power to express myself. I didn't know

42:23

everything at that time, but believe

42:26

or not, I felt that

42:28

this society cannot be trusted. This

42:35

is why today when I stand and I

42:37

tell the world, anyone

42:40

who identifies as a Muslim, I

42:44

consider them as a threat. I

42:46

don't trust them. People say, you cannot

42:48

generalize. This is like insane. What you say?

42:50

No, it's not insane because

42:54

their belief system has

42:58

sentenced me to death many times

43:00

for crimes that I haven't committed.

43:04

Then you pause as a Muslim, you carry

43:06

that identity. How am I supposed to feel

43:08

to watch you? It's

43:10

like coming to a Jewish refugee during the

43:12

Nazi era and say, I am a Nazi.

43:14

Come with me. I'm not going to hurt

43:16

you. No, you're taking

43:19

the identity of a Nazi regime.

43:22

And whether you are the bad

43:24

cup or the good cup, it

43:26

doesn't matter. You are serving the

43:28

same establishment and I'm tired of

43:31

this moderate versus extremist. Every

43:35

individual has the responsibility to

43:37

know what they are identifying

43:39

with. You're my individuality is above

43:41

all religions and above all gods.

43:45

I don't accept to just take a label for myself,

43:47

not knowing what I'm getting myself involved into because

43:51

only my parents push that religious identity

43:53

on me. And if I am

43:55

at that level of consciousness,

43:58

then how can I trust you with that? anything I cannot

44:00

trust you with my woman I can't trust

44:02

you with my property I cannot trust you

44:05

with my money I cannot trust you being

44:07

even close to me because

44:09

you don't qualify you don't

44:12

know your individuality you are

44:14

unpredictable you can be friendly now but five

44:16

minutes later you can be a part of

44:18

a crowd and you are going to show

44:21

me your tasks you might bite

44:23

me so then I have a problem

44:25

okay what

44:27

do you have what do you make of moves

44:29

on the part of countries like the UAE and

44:32

and the other countries that are involved in the in the

44:35

Abraham Accords let's say because that it looks to

44:37

me like that's a pathway

44:39

forward much different than the path we

44:41

laid out in

44:43

Iran that right that holds out

44:45

the possibility of something like a

44:48

rapprochement between let's say

44:50

Christianity Judaism and Islam do

44:52

you see any hope on that side of things yes

44:57

with the statement that I made this is

44:59

my fundamental stand I don't compromise this and

45:02

I don't respect anyone who identify themselves

45:05

as a Muslim in tension because

45:08

why okay but this is

45:10

my fundamental stand because I aim to reform

45:14

a generation I need people to

45:16

get out of their cave of delusion and

45:18

think for themselves like for example I

45:20

don't have a problem with the Sufis and I

45:23

don't have a problem actually with

45:25

Muslims who don't pose as Muslims

45:27

they don't have to bring

45:32

their religious identity

45:34

as they are entitled to something they

45:37

want to intimidate me or maybe tempt me with

45:39

something sincere devotion and

45:41

people don't need a religious

45:44

identity at all and

45:46

those exist in the Arab and the Muslim

45:48

world but also

45:50

hypocrisy is is well so you know

45:52

the other side of the coin I

45:54

just did a seminar on

45:57

the Gospels with some scholars

46:00

the same group that I walked through

46:02

the story of Exodus with. Now,

46:04

we spent 20 hours going through the Gospel

46:06

accounts and the biggest

46:09

enemies of Christ are the religious

46:11

hypocrites. That's the Pharisees in that

46:13

story. And there are people who proclaim

46:16

allegiance to God while acting in their

46:18

own service, right? The deepest of all

46:20

possible sins, right? To invert the moral

46:22

order so that you

46:25

serve yourself while claiming to

46:27

serve what's properly

46:30

put in the highest place, right?

46:32

There's no shortage of religious hypocrisy. And

46:34

I think it is

46:36

the worst of all possible sins because

46:38

it inverts the cosmic order, right? It

46:41

makes everything good, subservient to what

46:43

it is that you want. And

46:46

that's a very, that's a very, I mean,

46:49

that can be, obviously that's

46:51

a problem faced by any

46:54

religious system because any religious system

46:56

can become overrun with hypocrites. But

46:59

that's really what you're pointing to, is the

47:01

distinction between hypocrisy and it

47:05

says in the Gospels that you shouldn't let your

47:07

left hand know what your right hand is doing.

47:09

And what that really means is that it's something

47:11

like practice your devotion

47:13

in solitude and secrecy

47:16

and don't trump it. Don't make a show of it.

47:22

The activists in the West are exactly the

47:24

same sort of people, right? They're wearing their

47:26

morality on a stick. Look

47:28

how good I am because I'm on the right

47:30

side. It has nothing to do with them organizing

47:32

their lives in any sense of the word. All

47:35

they have to do is proclaim allegiance to the

47:37

victim and they're on the top of the moral

47:39

order. Regardless

47:41

of who they have to crawl in bed with to manage

47:43

that particular stunt, which is what

47:45

we're seeing everywhere in the West at the moment. After

47:48

October 7th, obviously. And

47:50

all this moral decay, of course, there's no

47:52

comment. It's a human condition. This

47:55

is why we're saying if we want to see

47:57

the new man, If

48:00

we want to integrate to a higher

48:02

state of consciousness, then we need to

48:04

drop this political

48:06

correctness. It's the difference. It's

48:08

the same thing. It's the same game. Yeah. You

48:11

know, I was born in that society and up on

48:13

the same side. And

48:16

I was born in that belief, like at least when it comes

48:18

to me. I

48:20

don't have the right to criticize my own

48:22

belief system. And if I

48:24

do, I become, it becomes

48:27

a hateful speech. Who

48:29

says this? It

48:32

is like birthright to

48:35

rebel and to criticize. This is what

48:37

makes us superior to animals. Especially

48:40

that there is no such thing as Islam. We

48:42

have so many denominations. So

48:44

basically, at

48:47

least what we can do now, we can push

48:49

them back. They have to back

48:51

off. And

48:55

we probably can apply political

48:57

pressure. Where, you know, they will have

48:59

to hold

49:03

extremists accountable. After

49:08

October 7th, what I saw, and this is why

49:10

I went outrageous, and I really told the Arab

49:12

world, listen, if it comes down to choose between

49:15

the entire Muslim population and the cow, I choose

49:17

the cow. Like at least the cow is very

49:19

peaceful. It gives us milk.

49:21

It gives us leather. It gives us

49:23

meat. It is very peaceful. It is

49:26

harmless. But

49:28

you, what's your contribution? And

49:30

now we have this global crisis

49:33

where a minority, a

49:37

religious minority, being persecuted, suffering

49:39

public cleansing on October 7th.

49:42

And instead of siding with truth to

49:44

say that this does not represent us

49:46

as a Muslim world, instead

49:49

they have been weaponizing their

49:51

religious identity against

49:54

this religious minority that is

49:56

most creative with the greatest

49:58

contribution to life. And

50:01

I don't see like this is the

50:03

blueprint of our society. I mean, I

50:05

cannot imagine the Western civilization or

50:08

our civilization without the Jupyter. How do you

50:10

account for the fact that the Abraham Accords

50:12

haven't collapsed? I

50:14

mean, they haven't, right? They've held. And

50:17

that's, again, that seems to me to be a very positive

50:19

thing. I mean, I think you

50:22

could make a case that perhaps the people who

50:24

are on the Abraham Accords side of the

50:26

world could have been more forthright in their

50:28

defense of Israel after October 7th, but at

50:31

least the whole bloody process hasn't collapsed. I

50:33

mean, that's what Iran was hoping for. It's not

50:35

collapsed. It's not collapsed. And I think it is

50:37

going to be rejuvenated after this war because it's

50:40

in the interest of everybody. Yes. And

50:42

now the thing is, Israel is showing

50:44

everyone that violence is the dead end.

50:47

So what I am hoping for that

50:50

I don't know if we have to go to

50:52

the point where we have to deal with Iran

50:54

and Hezbollah and this war could be a lot

50:57

longer than people expecting. But eventually

50:59

the Middle East is going to reach

51:01

the point, especially Muslims

51:03

and Arabs, that violence

51:05

is a dead end. We are not going

51:08

to tolerate violence. You

51:10

want to worship the stone? Worship it as much

51:12

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52:28

This was the final

52:30

result, the use of force after

52:33

exhausting every possibility with Islamists with

52:35

the Muslim Brotherhood, especially which is

52:37

Hamas. There is no difference. Now

52:42

that they learned the lesson, they can

52:44

stay in their delusion. It's

52:46

not my responsibility to go and try to pull

52:48

them out of their cage. But

52:51

if they choose to act on it and

52:53

manifest their delusion in the form of

52:55

violence, in the form of terrorism, then

52:58

we have very tough warriors and

53:00

we are going to fight. I

53:02

personally am fighting for my very existence.

53:05

I'm not an expert on the topic.

53:07

They want me to cease to exist.

53:10

Hence my relationship and my understanding

53:12

of Israel, because Israel didn't

53:14

do anything wrong to the Arabs and to

53:17

the Jews, except, you know, just being who

53:19

they are and they want

53:21

them to cease to exist. This

53:23

is how I feel, why I feel with Israel.

53:26

It's there is no difference. We are

53:28

in the same situation where

53:30

I didn't commit a crime against

53:32

my people. I didn't commit a

53:35

crime against anyone. Even later on

53:37

when I collaborated with Israel in

53:39

the intelligence service, my

53:42

main goal was to just stop

53:44

the madness, stop suicide bombers from

53:47

targeting civilians indiscriminately. This

53:49

was my goal. This was my

53:51

moral compass. I didn't do it because of

53:53

a national motivation. I

54:00

still became a traitor. I

54:03

said, why you labeled me as a traitor? Why

54:05

you condemn me to death? I

54:07

did not only save Jewish life, I saved

54:10

also Palestinian life. I saved my father's life

54:12

and other Hamas' Iggers' lives. Believe

54:14

it or not, for 10 years I don't

54:16

have blood on my hands. I did not

54:18

take part in killing any human being. Throughout

54:21

10 years of war

54:24

and chaos and bloodshed, working

54:28

around the clock to save people from

54:30

their madness, trying to just juggle with

54:32

the whole situation. I was very young

54:35

and I almost got killed so many

54:37

times in the process. Sitting in a

54:39

room full of explosives with

54:42

potential suicide bombers, 19

54:44

years old, discussing who's going to

54:46

die first. That kind

54:48

of situation. And I am trying,

54:50

how can I stop this

54:52

kid from killing

54:55

so many other people? This

54:57

is not about treason. It's

55:00

about pro-life. This is what we were doing.

55:03

Yet, a society that prays

55:06

suicide bombing attacks prays death.

55:09

Because blinded with hatred

55:11

towards the Jewish people. That by the

55:13

way, they don't know nothing about the

55:15

Jewish history. They don't know nothing about

55:17

the Jewish suffering. They are not willing

55:20

to study about the Holocaust. Instead,

55:22

they're teaching people the

55:24

wrong and the false narrative. And this is

55:27

how they guarantee to

55:29

stay in this victim for eternity.

55:33

So basically, it's so complicated,

55:35

you know, in my

55:38

matrix that I

55:40

learned a lot about myself. And I fought the

55:42

good fight. But right now, I reached a point

55:45

that I don't need to explain to

55:47

anybody anything. There is a volcano inside

55:49

me that is about to erupt. And

55:52

I don't care what people are going to

55:54

say. Whether they're going to say mad, crazy,

55:56

out of control, they can say whatever they

55:59

want. We have to eradicate Hamas.

56:01

We have to finish Islamists. There

56:03

is no room for savages in

56:06

our civilization. And anyone who pose

56:08

a threat against innocent

56:10

civilians don't have equal rights.

56:13

It's as simple as that. And all the

56:15

voices coming from the United States say, hey,

56:17

Palestinians, give the Palestinians equal

56:20

rights. I say, no. First,

56:22

I want to see equal responsibility. Show

56:26

me equal responsibility and we can discuss

56:28

equal rights. But you

56:30

don't compare savages to decent

56:32

civilians or to decent civilized

56:34

people who know their responsibility

56:37

towards themselves and towards their

56:39

neighbors. And compare, say, hey,

56:42

Israel is democracy. Why you

56:44

treat the Palestinians in such

56:46

manner? Well, there is no

56:48

such thing as Palestine to begin with. And

56:50

the entire social structure needs

56:53

to be studied before

56:55

we decide what Palestine is, because

56:58

it's not a nation. It's political gangs

57:02

fighting against each other, fighting Israel

57:04

as a common enemy. And

57:06

when Israel is not there, they will kill each other.

57:08

I promise you that. So

57:12

what happens to you at 13? Walk

57:16

me through your life from 13 onward to

57:19

the point where you start working with the

57:21

Israeli. So walk me through that whole biography.

57:26

So. That

57:30

was the first person in the fight. Yeah. But

57:32

it looks like I developed so many

57:35

disorders because of the traumas of

57:37

childhood. And

57:39

instead, a society that can understand a

57:41

child and what's going on, what they

57:43

did, they beat me up. Everybody

57:47

from the Hamas leaders to my parents,

57:49

to the teachers at school, to

57:51

the principal, to the other kids

57:53

in the streets. Everywhere

57:56

I went, at some point I

57:58

got beaten up by a mob. In

58:00

fact, in my life, I got beaten up

58:02

by a mob multiple times to the point

58:04

where I went unconscious. And

58:07

why were you a target of that sort of art?

58:09

I was just troublemaker. And I'm

58:11

still a troublemaker. This is one

58:13

of my best qualities. So

58:16

basically, they wanted

58:18

me to behave accordingly, according

58:21

to the religious laws

58:23

and the cultural laws. But

58:25

I didn't know I was behaving that way. I

58:27

just wanted to rebel. There was lots of anger

58:29

inside me. And there is still lots of anger.

58:32

So what were you doing that was causing

58:34

trouble? I broke the rules. At

58:37

the mosque, I played. I

58:39

just was a very playful kid. And

58:43

they wanted me to just not

58:45

do anything. If I ran in the mosque, once

58:48

the imam at the mosque left

58:51

me up above his head and throw

58:53

me flat on my back, where I lost

58:55

my breath. And

58:58

on another occasion, I

59:01

was whipped by a

59:03

Hamas leader with the

59:05

electric cable to the point I

59:07

lost consciousness. How old were you? Between

59:10

the 10 and 18 years

59:13

old, this is like where the brutality

59:15

of the society took place. So

59:18

if I was only a rape victim and I was

59:20

very young, I would say, okay, that was one event.

59:23

But come on. Everybody

59:26

was conspiring against me. And I

59:28

still wonder why so many forces

59:30

wanted me dead. And they still

59:33

don't have compassion to just look and

59:35

say, wow, this guy went through a lot.

59:37

Like maybe whatever

59:39

he's saying, he has the right at least

59:41

to express it. But

59:43

they want to strip me even the right to talk

59:46

about it. So

59:48

it's a brutal

59:51

culture. When some

59:53

say what happened on October 7 was

59:56

barbaric, it's not only Hamas. There

59:59

is a majority. in the Gethan

1:00:01

society that is complicit in this

1:00:04

crime. In fact, for

1:00:06

those who watched the footage of

1:00:11

the October 7 crimes, it

1:00:13

was not only Hamas that committed crime.

1:00:15

Most of the crimes, especially raping and

1:00:17

kidnapping, were committed by Gethan civilians. And

1:00:20

I know now this is considered,

1:00:24

or somebody can't discredit me because I'm generalizing,

1:00:26

but I say the vast majority of the

1:00:28

society don't have mercy when it comes to

1:00:30

children. And no woman can walk freely

1:00:33

and feel safe at midnight, anywhere

1:00:35

in the Palestinian territories. This is

1:00:38

why a father is willing to kill

1:00:40

his daughter if she would

1:00:42

leave the house without a companion. Because

1:00:45

if she leaves the house without a companion, there's

1:00:48

a big chance that she's going to be raped

1:00:50

on the streets. And why are you taking such

1:00:52

a risk? They would beat them up if they

1:00:54

leave the house alone. So

1:00:57

it's a troubled society. It's a death

1:00:59

culture. And I don't

1:01:02

mean to label them as savages. And

1:01:04

I don't want to say this because

1:01:06

it's so hard. It's my biological family.

1:01:08

This is where I came from. And

1:01:10

I love the people. I want the

1:01:12

people to integrate. But

1:01:16

they want me dead still. And as

1:01:18

long as they are not able

1:01:20

to make peace with their own child, I

1:01:24

don't know how they can make peace

1:01:26

with other nations, with other people, with

1:01:28

others. What was your relationship with your

1:01:30

father like? I loved

1:01:32

my father. I

1:01:34

loved him. He was my God. Even

1:01:37

though he beat me up, so many times, I

1:01:39

loved him. And I loved

1:01:41

my mother as well. I loved

1:01:43

my people. I did not hate them. I was

1:01:45

just a troublemaker, but it's not out of hatred.

1:01:47

Even the ones who hurt me the most, I

1:01:50

was able to let go. Even my rapists or

1:01:52

that guy who beat me up or the teacher.

1:01:56

I did not go after them. And

1:01:58

it was not coincidental. that

1:02:01

existence gave me so much power

1:02:03

during the second personian Antifod, which

1:02:05

I was, I had the capacity

1:02:07

to pretty much give

1:02:10

the permission to

1:02:16

an army to kill somebody. And

1:02:18

I refused, especially when they were my

1:02:20

opponents. Like, so how did you,

1:02:22

how did you come to be in that position? So,

1:02:25

so you're a young man, 13 to 18. What's

1:02:29

happening in your life and where do you end up? So

1:02:32

basically at the age of 18, the

1:02:36

gap between me and that society was really

1:02:38

white. And I

1:02:41

questioned many things about the

1:02:43

culture of who we are and why people

1:02:45

are just so

1:02:48

cruel. And

1:02:51

I wanted to take revenge, but I

1:02:54

thought I'd take revenge from Israel. And

1:02:57

somehow I wanted to go to suicidal

1:02:59

because it was very hard, you know, to take a

1:03:01

gun and go shoot my people. So

1:03:03

I thought, okay, how about I go

1:03:06

against the occupiers or enemies? And

1:03:08

I decided that I'm going to buy a

1:03:11

purchase gun and shoot some Israelis and just

1:03:13

go as a Shahid. That was my only

1:03:15

escape. And that was

1:03:17

only at the age of 18. So I got the

1:03:19

guns. And

1:03:21

before I did anything, thankfully, I

1:03:24

was arrested by the

1:03:26

Israeli intelligence. During

1:03:29

interrogation, they

1:03:32

offered me to work for them. And

1:03:35

I thought it was an opportunity to actually say

1:03:38

yes and destroy

1:03:41

them from within. On

1:03:43

one hand, I would be released from prison and

1:03:47

I would have a lot more information, a lot more

1:03:49

power, and I can't do something against. Because

1:03:52

there was no way for any intelligence service

1:03:55

to buy me, to

1:03:57

say buy money or buy intimidation or

1:03:59

any of that. So

1:04:01

that was actually my real motive,

1:04:03

and it's described in detail in

1:04:05

my books. But

1:04:11

instead of releasing me, they said you must go to

1:04:14

prison. If we release you, people

1:04:17

will get suspicious, and

1:04:19

you will get killed. So

1:04:22

I ended up going to prison for 16

1:04:24

months. This was my first in prison. In

1:04:28

prison, I

1:04:30

told Hamas about this encounter with the

1:04:32

Israeli intelligence. In prison, yeah.

1:04:35

In prison, okay. I told them the truth, and this

1:04:37

is my plan. But they said, is

1:04:39

this everything? They said, this is everything. They said, no,

1:04:41

you write more. So there is nothing else. So who's

1:04:44

your handler? What's your mission? So they did

1:04:46

not give me any mission. Hamas became

1:04:48

suspicious of me. Instead

1:04:51

of helping me, I became a suspect. But

1:04:55

my father is one of the founders of the movement.

1:04:58

So they could not torture me, but

1:05:01

in the meantime, they were torturing hundreds

1:05:03

of other prisoners for suspicion

1:05:06

of collaborating with Israel. Dozens

1:05:09

were killed during that time, and hundreds

1:05:11

were tortured. They destroyed their

1:05:13

lives completely, and they were brutal. Some

1:05:16

of this was taking place in the prison. In prison. All of it. All

1:05:19

of it. I see. I'm talking about the 16 months

1:05:22

of a nightmare beyond

1:05:25

anyone's imagination, where

1:05:27

I am a suspect, but they are not touching me.

1:05:30

While everyone else, everyone around

1:05:32

me is being tortured and

1:05:34

killed for 16 months. And

1:05:38

I was wondering, is

1:05:40

my turn going to come? Because

1:05:43

of my father's status and their hypocrisy,

1:05:46

and of course their shame, they

1:05:49

did not do anything to me.

1:05:52

But the thing is, I didn't – up

1:05:56

to that point, I did not betray. I just

1:05:58

told them the truth, not under the law. pressure. I thought,

1:06:00

you know, they could help me that this is

1:06:03

my plan. And this is how

1:06:05

things went wrong between me

1:06:07

and Hamas to the core. When

1:06:10

I was released from prison after 16 months, Hamas

1:06:14

followed up outside prison. My father

1:06:16

was still in prison, but different Israeli prison at

1:06:19

that time. So he wasn't there to protect me.

1:06:22

And I was outraged. Was

1:06:25

he in prison with you? No, no, my

1:06:28

father was in a high security prison. I

1:06:30

was in a, like more

1:06:32

of a jail. Okay. Okay. So he wasn't

1:06:34

inside prison to protect me. And when I

1:06:37

was released, he was still in Israeli prison.

1:06:39

My father spent some 30 years

1:06:42

of his life in Israeli prisons. So

1:06:47

now outside the prison, Hamas

1:06:49

is coming after me. It's just like,

1:06:51

just keep us posted what's going on.

1:06:53

And now they're,

1:06:56

I don't want to say blackmail me, but in

1:06:59

the human nature, the handler

1:07:01

of Hamas found

1:07:04

opportunity actually to, to

1:07:07

take it to total advantage. He wanted me to become

1:07:09

somehow like his bitch.

1:07:14

And I was in a situation I prefer

1:07:16

to die. You know, I did not betray my people. I don't

1:07:18

have any intention to betray anybody.

1:07:21

I always thought that, okay, you know, we're

1:07:23

fighting against occupation and this is the way

1:07:25

to just become a Shahid and exit all

1:07:28

this tragedy for

1:07:31

good. So I was going suicidal. I

1:07:33

did not mean, you know, to, to sell my people for

1:07:35

mom. So

1:07:39

the only refuge was left on

1:07:42

the table is to actually go to the Israeli intelligence and

1:07:45

ask them for help from Hamas this time, because

1:07:47

Hamas, what were they

1:07:49

requiring of you, the

1:07:52

Hamas handler? What was being recorded of you? The

1:07:55

moment they put you in the room, at

1:08:00

defense and you are in a

1:08:02

society like this where everything is

1:08:04

ruled based on shame and

1:08:07

honor. It's the most shameful

1:08:09

thing. They can

1:08:11

ask you to do whatever they want you to

1:08:13

do. And it's up

1:08:15

to the individual. It's not

1:08:17

even to the Hamas movement.

1:08:20

And they are going to hold it against you

1:08:22

for eternity. What kind of life is this?

1:08:26

It's like someone is holding

1:08:28

something against you. And nothing

1:08:31

will clean that shame no matter

1:08:33

what you do. Except if

1:08:36

you die, even if I became a

1:08:38

suicide bomber, the shame will hunt

1:08:40

me to my grave. This was the

1:08:42

reality of it. So this

1:08:45

is where I think everything just went

1:08:48

out of control. I was like since

1:08:50

childhood, I had

1:08:52

no mercy from these people. And right

1:08:54

now, trying to actually just

1:08:58

escape my misery by

1:09:01

dying for Allah, by dying

1:09:03

for the nation against the

1:09:06

Zionist occupation. They're

1:09:08

coming after me. So this is my

1:09:11

psychic. And I was, no

1:09:13

matter what I do, even if I die, I

1:09:15

will never be able to please them. And why would I

1:09:17

die? So in

1:09:20

the first encounter with Israeli intelligence, I told

1:09:23

them the whole truth. Going

1:09:25

online without ExpressVPN is like leaving your

1:09:27

kids with the nearest stranger while you

1:09:30

go to the restroom. They're probably not

1:09:32

a kidnapper or a serial killer. But

1:09:34

why would you ever take that risk?

1:09:37

Every time you connect to an unencrypted

1:09:39

network in cafes, hotels or airports, you

1:09:41

leave your data vulnerable. Any hacker on

1:09:43

the same network can steal your personal

1:09:46

data, such as your passwords and financial

1:09:48

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1:10:55

the people who are tortured in

1:10:58

prison. If you now want

1:11:00

me to work for you, you abandon

1:11:02

money. You abandon me. They

1:11:06

said none of these people who were

1:11:08

tortured and killed had any relationship with

1:11:10

the Israeli intelligence. It's all in

1:11:12

Hamas head. The

1:11:15

handler said, I have been working with the

1:11:17

agency for 18 years. One

1:11:20

asset in our district

1:11:22

was was caught in the

1:11:25

action. And this man still alive

1:11:27

in the United States. And he gave me the

1:11:29

name of that person. He

1:11:31

said, this is the only one. This is the only true

1:11:34

story. The hundreds of

1:11:36

others who have been killed had

1:11:38

no relation. They are all innocent people. Well,

1:11:42

if he was telling me the truth, this

1:11:45

is even more

1:11:47

disastrous. And

1:11:53

I decided to go to the second to

1:11:56

go back to the second meeting and the

1:11:58

third meeting and every meeting. They were

1:12:00

just building me up. I was so broken Building

1:12:04

you up in one building me up in a Education

1:12:09

Conversation open conversation about who

1:12:11

they are what they do And

1:12:15

so this is when your political attitude started

1:12:18

to switch your your attitude towards history. Not

1:12:20

yet This was just the early beginning. Okay,

1:12:22

it was the early beginning because simply They

1:12:26

said here is money You

1:12:29

go back to school and They

1:12:33

gave me enough money exact amount that

1:12:35

pays for my school and

1:12:38

when I needed the To

1:12:41

to do anything financial they

1:12:43

said not possible We cannot give you

1:12:45

any amount of money because if you

1:12:47

give you money and you do

1:12:50

you cannot prove where you got this money From they would

1:12:52

kill you. So I said you only go

1:12:54

to school. Oh, what's my mission? There is no mission There

1:12:57

was no gun. There is no go spy

1:12:59

and cool. Did you show did you go

1:13:01

back to high? I went back to the

1:13:03

high school I graduated from high school But

1:13:05

also they wanted me to go to college

1:13:07

and I graduated four years college and during

1:13:09

that entire time they funded my education my

1:13:12

education only And there was

1:13:14

no other deal than that. There is was no other

1:13:16

deal. Why did they do that? Because this is how

1:13:18

they work And this

1:13:21

is how the Israeli intelligence work They

1:13:23

say from the beginning they said listen, we

1:13:25

don't work with losers It doesn't matter like

1:13:27

the fact that you are some of a

1:13:29

Hamas leader does not qualify you You

1:13:32

must Be like us

1:13:35

You need to think like us and you need to

1:13:37

be a part of your society and you need to

1:13:40

be productive You cannot be a loser if

1:13:42

you are a loser You

1:13:44

will not gain the respect of your

1:13:46

own society and they did a

1:13:49

long process of fooling Hamas That

1:13:55

we don't have a relationship that included,

1:13:57

you know, some attack on our house

1:14:00

some arrests in the future,

1:14:02

all type of allusion orchestrated

1:14:06

by the Israeli intelligence to just convince

1:14:08

the society that I was a wanted

1:14:10

person at some point, that there

1:14:13

was no way in the world that

1:14:16

I had a relationship with the Israeli

1:14:18

intelligence. Especially when Hamas started

1:14:20

building their trust with me again and

1:14:22

I had top

1:14:25

secrets of the movement but the Israelis

1:14:27

did not act upon

1:14:30

my intelligence or my information.

1:14:33

To just keep Hamas safe for as

1:14:35

long as possible. So

1:14:38

part of the building me up, you know, it was, we

1:14:41

had hundreds of meetings and they showed

1:14:46

me many of

1:14:48

the values. For example,

1:14:50

when we got into operation later

1:14:53

on, civilians were involved.

1:14:55

We avoid civilians every time. The

1:14:59

civilian involvement was a big concern for

1:15:02

the agency. And

1:15:04

I was really surprised because I felt that

1:15:07

the wisdom on the Palestinian street, the

1:15:09

Israelis will give you poison to put

1:15:11

in the town's water. They

1:15:14

will give you a gun to shoot your

1:15:16

own people. They will make you rape women

1:15:18

and take footage of them so you can

1:15:20

blackmail them. They

1:15:23

will, all type of crazy stories

1:15:25

that they had, it had nothing

1:15:27

in reality. And I was

1:15:29

on my own. They never connect me with anyone else. And

1:15:33

after my college, this is, I think,

1:15:35

was the period where I was ready

1:15:37

to do something

1:15:40

good for my students. What did you take in college?

1:15:43

I studied history. What

1:15:47

aspect of history? It

1:15:49

was history and social

1:15:52

studies. But I studied

1:15:54

the world history, Middle East

1:15:56

history, the history of

1:15:58

religion. Of

1:16:00

course, you cannot cover everything in four years, but

1:16:02

I did as much as I could and I

1:16:05

was very interested in the topic. So

1:16:09

what did your education change for

1:16:11

you? Education

1:16:17

was just

1:16:20

the first step. I had to

1:16:22

educate myself. Like for example,

1:16:24

while I was

1:16:26

in prison, I studied

1:16:29

English. I

1:16:33

memorized Oxford

1:16:35

dictionary. I was reading 16

1:16:38

hours a day and

1:16:41

I spent lots of time in Israeli prison. This

1:16:43

is how I spent my time. When

1:16:45

I was released, I opened up to

1:16:47

Christianity, especially the Bible. The

1:16:50

Bible had a huge impact on my

1:16:52

life, especially the

1:16:55

New Testament and the teachings of Christ,

1:16:58

which to me is not Christianity

1:17:00

as much as Christ's consciousness. It's

1:17:02

an advanced state of

1:17:04

consciousness and

1:17:07

the challenge of love thy

1:17:09

enemy. That came in

1:17:11

a place where I was conflicted.

1:17:14

Where you actually had enemies. Exactly.

1:17:17

Who is my enemy? Is it my people?

1:17:19

Is it my people? Is it my rapist?

1:17:21

Is it my torture? Is it Israel? Who

1:17:23

is it? So

1:17:26

the

1:17:29

challenge of love thy enemy really

1:17:31

made peace with the world somehow.

1:17:37

I decided that I don't have enemies

1:17:39

anymore and this would help me actually

1:17:41

heal and progress. So

1:17:43

I made a principle that I did not

1:17:46

want to kill any of my opponents. I

1:17:49

have to say that today I regret it. Today

1:17:52

I regret it. The influence

1:17:54

of Christ's consciousness of just

1:17:56

love everybody unconditionally. did

1:18:02

not get me to where I needed to be. Because

1:18:07

today I'm under the

1:18:09

influence of cause and effect, not

1:18:12

right and wrong. And

1:18:15

I think there is no escape for

1:18:17

anybody from karma or from their own

1:18:19

actions. Nobody's above this universal law. It

1:18:21

has nothing to do with cultures. And

1:18:24

I tried so hard to save my father's life.

1:18:27

If I wasn't in the picture, they would have

1:18:29

killed him a thousand times. Saying

1:18:32

that he's, I thought to myself,

1:18:34

he's moderate, he's in a political way. He's not

1:18:36

a military way. But

1:18:40

this is the problem of this is

1:18:42

a moderate and this is extremist. Then

1:18:45

you go into this rabbit hole and you never find

1:18:47

your way out. I thought to myself,

1:18:49

no. You

1:18:51

are complicit in Hamas crimes. Then

1:18:56

you qualify for the same

1:18:58

punishment as

1:19:01

any of their attackers

1:19:03

on October 7. And this

1:19:05

is why I had to take a moral stand and say, all

1:19:09

Hamas leaders must

1:19:12

be executed. What

1:19:14

happened on October 7 was a capital

1:19:16

crime. A genocide cannot be

1:19:18

taken lightly. This

1:19:22

is not just an act of

1:19:24

resistance. To

1:19:27

wipe out 20 plus

1:19:31

communities based on their ethnic background,

1:19:33

based on their religion, is

1:19:37

not an act of resistance. It's

1:19:39

not justified. Killing babies,

1:19:41

killing children, raping women, kidnapping

1:19:44

hostages, killing animals,

1:19:47

burning trees. Nothing

1:19:51

gets worse than this. And

1:19:54

it requires capital crime. And I had the

1:19:57

thought, what about my father? Who

1:19:59

I love. very much who disowned me

1:20:01

14 years ago. I

1:20:07

never give up on him. I was like

1:20:09

always, you know, in my heart, this is my

1:20:11

father. I love you. Whatever,

1:20:13

you know, he didn't necessarily to just shun me

1:20:17

and throw me to the mouth

1:20:19

of death. It's no problem. I'm as

1:20:22

long as you are okay. But

1:20:26

after October 7, I had to make

1:20:28

a very difficult choice because

1:20:33

this is where or when we have to

1:20:35

draw the line. All

1:20:37

of us are

1:20:40

connected to a certain

1:20:42

interest that this is a family relationship.

1:20:44

This is a love relationship. My relationship

1:20:46

to this property, my personal

1:20:48

interest, a certain degree.

1:20:51

Hence, we compromise the truth. Even

1:20:55

though the obvious truth that what happened in

1:20:57

October 7 is wrong, it doesn't matter if

1:21:00

they, if Muslims did it,

1:21:03

they are wrong. I don't care if

1:21:05

they are Buddhist, if they are Americans, it

1:21:07

doesn't matter who they are. It was wrong.

1:21:10

And I take the moral stand. My

1:21:14

father is complicit in this.

1:21:17

And especially when I saw him on the top

1:21:19

of a demonstration supporting Hamas

1:21:21

in our town in Ramallah, this

1:21:23

was the moment that

1:21:25

I thought he's not my

1:21:27

father anymore, cannot be. And

1:21:32

the hostage situation was very hard that

1:21:34

I didn't know how Israel is going

1:21:36

to bring those hostages back. And

1:21:39

Hamas wants mass murderers to

1:21:41

be released, happened

1:21:43

to be same people who

1:21:45

were torturing prisoners on

1:21:48

my watch and happened to be

1:21:50

the same mass

1:21:53

murderers who carried Swiss

1:21:55

head bombing attacks during the second person in

1:21:57

Tifa, like Ibrahim Hamid and Abdullah.

1:22:00

Barghouti people I knew personally. These

1:22:03

people Hamas is asking to

1:22:05

release. And

1:22:08

we cannot release them. We cannot put them

1:22:10

back to the streets for

1:22:12

innocent hostages. Such impossible situation.

1:22:15

So my suggestion, and this is again,

1:22:18

you know, the Israeli, I knew the

1:22:20

Israeli government will not do that. I

1:22:24

give them the permission to execute

1:22:26

all these mass murderers because if

1:22:28

they were executed from the

1:22:31

beginning, Hamas would have not

1:22:33

kidnapped a one-year-old hostage asking

1:22:35

for the release. But then

1:22:37

what about my father, my own father? Is

1:22:40

he an exception? He

1:22:46

could not be an exception. No

1:22:49

one can be an exception if they are complicit

1:22:51

in a genocide. So

1:22:54

this is where, you know, since October 7,

1:22:56

it's just as chaotic as it

1:22:58

is in the Middle East. And my life also

1:23:00

is chaotic, and I don't have way around it.

1:23:03

To see the Muslim population weaponizing

1:23:06

their religious identity against the Jewish as

1:23:09

a religious minority. And

1:23:11

I have known the Jewish people for about 27 years now. Actually,

1:23:16

my relationship with the Jewish nation is a

1:23:18

lot deeper than my relation with

1:23:20

the Muslim nation. It's

1:23:23

a lot longer, a lot deeper. Many

1:23:27

of the Jewish mothers throughout this journey, they took me in. You

1:23:31

know, a country, a nation that really gave me

1:23:33

so much support. I'm not

1:23:35

talking about financial support as much as

1:23:37

like sincere concern

1:23:39

for my well-being. I've

1:23:44

been to hundreds of Jewish families,

1:23:46

Shabbat binners. I

1:23:50

have adapted nephews, Jewish nephews, that

1:23:52

they're fighting in Gaza today. So

1:23:57

in the face of such a situation, how can we

1:23:59

be able to do that? I am banned in the

1:24:01

Jewish people. And those are my

1:24:03

people right now. And the

1:24:05

Arabs also, the Arab children, I see

1:24:08

myself, this is me. And

1:24:12

I see how the predators, the

1:24:14

pro-Palestine and the Hamas, billionaires

1:24:17

and the other criminals

1:24:22

taking advantage of the situation on a

1:24:24

global scale. I

1:24:28

find myself just fighting at so many fronts that

1:24:30

it just, it makes out of me an absolute

1:24:32

mad person. So

1:24:37

you, your education was paid

1:24:39

for by the, by

1:24:41

the Israeli intelligence agency,

1:24:45

and you started to question your

1:24:50

concept of their work, and then and

1:24:53

then you broadened

1:24:56

your education formally. How

1:24:59

is it that you worked for the

1:25:01

Israeli intelligence organization? How did that

1:25:03

come about? And what sort of work did you do?

1:25:07

So, cause you said to begin with, they were

1:25:09

just paying for your education and you were talking

1:25:11

to them and you were learning that they were

1:25:13

different than you thought. Yes. And I

1:25:15

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and order yours today. Things

1:26:09

became serious at the beginning of the

1:26:12

Second Palestinian Intifada. And

1:26:15

that was so the beginning of this

1:26:17

journey with the Israeli interiors started in 1996. The

1:26:22

Second Palestinian Intifada started in 2000,

1:26:24

right before 9-11. So

1:26:30

I was already towards the end

1:26:32

of my school and I knew

1:26:36

enough about

1:26:38

Hamas, about the

1:26:41

Palestinian Authority. And

1:26:43

it happened that I was part of Yasser al-Rafat

1:26:46

meetings and I

1:26:48

was part of other Palestinian

1:26:50

factions meetings, Islamic Jihad, Fata.

1:26:55

And my relation based

1:26:57

on my father's

1:27:00

public status, I was

1:27:02

able to go pretty much anywhere I wanted to go.

1:27:05

And people knew me from my childhood even

1:27:08

though I was troublemaker, you know, at that

1:27:10

time I was a lot more stable. And

1:27:13

what position exactly did your father

1:27:15

play or hold? So

1:27:19

basically my father's position,

1:27:21

of course, is changing because

1:27:24

of internal elections. And his

1:27:26

status would never be revealed to

1:27:28

the public, not even to Hamas

1:27:30

members because the voting for his

1:27:33

status would be only limited to

1:27:35

the Hamas leadership. At

1:27:37

that time, I think he was from the,

1:27:40

or he maintained throughout his

1:27:43

career with Hamas top

1:27:46

leadership in the Hamas Shura

1:27:48

Council plus a

1:27:51

huge chance that he's one of the founders

1:27:53

of Hamas, but he never revealed that. I

1:27:56

knew this from other Hamas leaders, but he

1:27:58

would never really do that. information

1:28:00

to me. Okay. Okay. They usually

1:28:02

reveal this information after his death.

1:28:05

So we're talking about his, he

1:28:07

is not only a leader of

1:28:09

the movement, he's also the

1:28:12

spiritual leader of the movement. Today

1:28:14

he could be the spiritual father

1:28:16

of the movement. This is his

1:28:18

significance. So not

1:28:21

just logistical. Okay.

1:28:23

And of

1:28:27

course, after my story came out, his status

1:28:30

in the movement was shaken.

1:28:32

Right. But somehow they

1:28:36

wanted to give him as much support as

1:28:38

they could. Okay, so now we're

1:28:40

at the second day to father. This is about this.

1:28:43

You said this is just before 9 11.

1:28:45

This is around the year 2000. Okay.

1:28:47

So what's happening and you

1:28:49

have access to all these meetings, right?

1:28:52

But you've already established relationship with

1:28:54

the Israeli intelligence. Yes.

1:28:56

So, so basically, um, trust

1:29:01

between me and the Israeli intelligence

1:29:03

was already established and,

1:29:05

um, I

1:29:08

was highly motivated to

1:29:11

capture a suicide bomber before they reached

1:29:13

their target. Israel was really struggling with

1:29:15

this issue. Uh, we

1:29:17

had, so that became your mission. It was

1:29:20

suicide bomber prevention oriented.

1:29:22

Yes. The thing is everything was happening in

1:29:24

front of my eyes. The

1:29:27

only thing I just needed to set my

1:29:29

intention that do I want to do

1:29:31

this job? Do I want to do

1:29:33

this very difficult job or not? Because even

1:29:36

though they established the relationship with the Israeli

1:29:38

intelligence, that did not mean that I was

1:29:40

forced to do anything. So

1:29:44

I was in the mosque. I was

1:29:46

in the meetings. I was in the

1:29:48

safe houses. I was pretty much everywhere.

1:29:51

And, uh, any strange encounter

1:29:53

between two Hamas members, I was

1:29:55

able to just detect that this

1:29:57

is unusual. We have to look

1:29:59

into it. Now,

1:30:02

what was more important than the

1:30:04

Israeli intelligence had lots of information,

1:30:08

but it would take an expert hours

1:30:11

and hours to go through thousands

1:30:13

of pages to come to a

1:30:15

conclusion. And for me,

1:30:17

if I hear the story, I would come

1:30:20

to that conclusion immediately. So I was

1:30:22

able to piece the puzzle. And

1:30:24

many people think that I was informed,

1:30:26

like going and bringing information, but what

1:30:28

they didn't realize actually that the Israeli

1:30:30

intelligence had the information already. And

1:30:32

all I was just in a meeting, piecing

1:30:35

the puzzle. And

1:30:38

then when I go back to

1:30:41

the society, I act based on

1:30:43

what I know now from the

1:30:45

meetings. So

1:30:49

the information, the intelligence that I received

1:30:52

from the Shinbait, helped

1:30:54

me navigate a

1:30:57

thousand times stronger than if I was

1:30:59

only a son

1:31:02

of Hamas leader. So

1:31:05

I ended up knowing about Hamas a lot

1:31:07

more than what my father knew about Hamas

1:31:09

operations. So

1:31:16

being part of that culture and

1:31:19

having whatever

1:31:21

information, it

1:31:25

made my position very, very strong that

1:31:29

I was able to reach a suicide bomber

1:31:31

before they reached their

1:31:34

target. How many

1:31:36

arms did you do that? Okay. And I hate to

1:31:38

talk about this. Okay.

1:31:40

I hate to talk about it because this is where

1:31:42

I start playing the hero. And even in the book,

1:31:44

I always talk about it. But I think right now

1:31:46

it's inevitable because many people are trying to discredit my

1:31:48

journey. And

1:31:52

it's a vow. It's also that

1:31:54

I'm supposed not to talk about

1:31:56

operation. the

1:32:00

secrets of our work to the enemy. But

1:32:05

you can say the least dozens

1:32:08

of suicide bombing attacks, dozens

1:32:12

on a regular basis from

1:32:15

capturing five suicide bombers at

1:32:18

the time to seven suicide

1:32:20

bombers at the time to

1:32:23

capturing the masterminds

1:32:25

that includes the

1:32:28

bomb maker. And that

1:32:30

was our biggest concern. In

1:32:32

fact, somebody

1:32:34

like Abdallah al-Bargothi, which was very

1:32:37

very dangerous Hamas asset, the most

1:32:39

dangerous Hamas bomb maker. He's

1:32:43

in Israeli prison today. I

1:32:46

was the first to reach his location, his

1:32:48

lab, and

1:32:51

recognize him. responsible

1:32:56

for the death of at least a hundred people

1:32:59

at that time before he was arrested. Ibrahim

1:33:02

Hamid and the entire Hamas

1:33:05

military wing of the West Bank,

1:33:09

which they were using

1:33:11

a research

1:33:15

center as their cover. They

1:33:17

never come to the mosque. They

1:33:20

never participate in Hamas activities. They're all

1:33:22

shaped. They don't have beards. They're

1:33:25

in the intellectuals, etc. historians.

1:33:30

And I had my suspicion, but the agency

1:33:32

did not have any information about this guy

1:33:34

because guys there were five of them. And

1:33:38

I kept arguing for about

1:33:40

three years arguing

1:33:42

with the agency that these people are doing

1:33:45

something wrong, doing something and nobody would listen

1:33:47

to me. Until

1:33:49

finally, we realized that these people

1:33:51

have been the core

1:33:53

group behind 95% of the

1:33:56

suicide bombing attacks during the

1:33:58

second Palestinian anti-fath Just,

1:34:02

they were there and we could not make the connection. Then

1:34:04

finally the agency is like, how did you come to

1:34:07

this conclusion? So many

1:34:09

times they were just like a gut feeling. Or

1:34:11

like literally I would just be taking my little

1:34:15

sister to the school in the morning. And

1:34:17

all of a sudden I see this most

1:34:19

wanted internability.

1:34:22

And this was his apartment, his safe house. Then

1:34:26

I called the agency and I say, I found him. How

1:34:28

did you find him? I was just driving

1:34:31

and he just entered the building. They could not

1:34:33

believe it. Ibrahim Hamid, the

1:34:35

agency did not see him in eight years. They

1:34:37

did not see his face in eight years. And

1:34:41

I finally locate him. So it was at some

1:34:44

point, I remember, Avidikhtar was the head of

1:34:46

the agency at that time. He said, get

1:34:48

him out. He said, get him

1:34:50

out. He's going to get killed because the

1:34:53

amount of operation, whether

1:34:55

in Fatahe, Hamas,

1:34:58

Islamic Jihad, public front for liberation

1:35:01

of Palestine, in fact, Yasser Arafat,

1:35:04

after winning the Nobel

1:35:07

Prize, I was

1:35:10

the source that brought the

1:35:12

information of his relation to

1:35:14

Swiss-Adbanian attacks. Because I

1:35:16

was in that meeting. And the information

1:35:18

that was given to Arief Sharon, the Israeli

1:35:22

prime minister at that time, my

1:35:24

identity was never revealed. The

1:35:26

same information that was used in the UN

1:35:29

Security Council. So why

1:35:32

am I telling you this? Not to brag about it. The

1:35:35

amount of intelligence out my life

1:35:38

was on the line every day,

1:35:40

every single day, during the second

1:35:42

Palestinian Intifada, all the way up

1:35:45

to Hamas coup in Gaza. And

1:35:49

I told the Israeli intelligence that Hamas is up

1:35:51

to something. They said, but

1:35:53

this is too hard to believe. The

1:35:56

Palestinian Authority has 35,000... police

1:36:00

officers. Hamas has only 5,000.

1:36:02

It's not possible

1:36:04

for them to overthrow the Palestinian

1:36:07

Authority. I told them this is Hamas's

1:36:09

plan and this is what's going to happen.

1:36:12

And that was three months before Hamas

1:36:14

took over Gaza Strip. Okay,

1:36:16

now where it's going to

1:36:18

get tricky, you know, this is stuff that I don't like to

1:36:20

talk about. Nobody

1:36:23

gave it there. And

1:36:25

three months later Hamas was in power. And

1:36:28

instead of destroying Hamas and not allowing

1:36:30

them to grow, the

1:36:33

world's pressure against Israel, that

1:36:36

this is an election and

1:36:38

Hamas won the elections. And

1:36:40

we have to accept them

1:36:42

as a legitimate political party.

1:36:44

And they just keep playing

1:36:46

this game. And Israel agreed to go

1:36:48

into their rabbit hole until Hamas became

1:36:51

the power it became. And

1:36:54

even from the first war with

1:36:56

Hamas, Israel was determined to destroy

1:36:58

Hamas completely. But the world came,

1:37:00

sees fire now. And

1:37:03

we see fire the first war, the second war,

1:37:05

the third war, the fourth war. And

1:37:07

every time they use children as human shields. And

1:37:11

this time it was there is no way

1:37:13

around it. You'll have to eradicate them. Otherwise

1:37:15

they will do a lot

1:37:17

worse in the in the next war.

1:37:19

How do you understand the relationship between

1:37:21

Hamas and Iran? It's

1:37:26

a very weird and awkward relationship because

1:37:28

she and Sunni, they hate each other.

1:37:30

So there's a bloody history between both

1:37:33

sects. But the,

1:37:38

it's in Iran's interest to

1:37:41

destabilize the region. They

1:37:43

find in Hamas a

1:37:46

device. They

1:37:48

give Hamas billions of dollars. But

1:37:51

they, why do you think the Americans, especially

1:37:53

the Democrats, why do you think they can't

1:37:55

see this? Because

1:37:58

everybody's after their interests. Like, for

1:38:00

example, right now we have

1:38:02

Iran's full

1:38:04

attack on Israel, ballistic

1:38:07

missiles. Okay. We downed many of

1:38:09

those and the United States helped

1:38:11

the UK, other NATO countries. This

1:38:14

is the Arab States. Arab States. Okay. This

1:38:16

is great. But are

1:38:19

we supposed to be a defense? Is

1:38:21

this the best we could do that

1:38:23

we just stand a defense, the superpower?

1:38:29

I would destroy the Iranian nuclear

1:38:31

program immediately. This is what I

1:38:33

called from day one. I said

1:38:35

the most adequate response to

1:38:37

October 7 is the destruction

1:38:39

of Iran's nuclear program. You

1:38:42

cannot give a Muslim country a

1:38:44

nuclear power. It was a big

1:38:46

mistake to let Pakistan to become

1:38:48

a nuclear power. This

1:38:51

could lead to

1:38:54

a global situation, a very ugly

1:38:56

situation. They are not

1:38:58

responsible. They are dictatorship. They

1:39:01

are not accountable

1:39:03

to anybody but Allah. How can you

1:39:05

give them our interpretation of Allah? Of

1:39:08

course, yeah. And how Allah itself, I

1:39:10

don't want to say even interpretation because

1:39:12

Allah as is in the Quran is

1:39:14

a very dangerous entity. So

1:39:17

it's not a matter of misinterpretation that the

1:39:19

guy is a very good guy in the

1:39:21

Quran and the Islamists or extremists see

1:39:24

him as a bad guy. No,

1:39:26

he's a bad guy. Sooner or later,

1:39:28

the world is going to wake up on a disaster

1:39:30

and realize what we are saying is the truth. So

1:39:36

the United States is not doing their job.

1:39:39

We have advanced weaponry.

1:39:43

Like, for example, the electromagnetic

1:39:45

bomb. We drop one of

1:39:47

these, paralyze their entire system. No civilians will

1:39:49

die in this process. Just

1:39:51

send them back to the Stone Age and

1:39:54

in the meantime, destroy their nuclear program. Show

1:39:56

them who is the boss. We

1:40:00

are compromising so they can get

1:40:02

access to our intellectual property and

1:40:05

use our weapons against us This

1:40:08

is insanity But

1:40:10

why the Biden administration doing this because

1:40:13

he's trying to please the voters He's

1:40:16

trying to please receive that plea.

1:40:18

He's trying to Please

1:40:21

get a hard at that's all part

1:40:23

of that victim victimizer narrative. Yes

1:40:25

He's trying to please everybody and I say, you

1:40:27

know, if it's strong leaders the

1:40:31

Chris Weak

1:40:34

leaders try to please everybody and

1:40:36

I think this is a situation of

1:40:39

this administration You cannot please everybody you

1:40:41

cannot please Israel and please Rashid a

1:40:43

slave simultaneously You

1:40:45

cannot you need to choose who's my ally in this

1:40:47

situation? Israel is a reliable

1:40:50

ally and they are under attack and They

1:40:54

are protecting the American interests in the region

1:40:58

They are maintaining the stability

1:41:00

of the of

1:41:03

the region. I don't want to say the world. It's not

1:41:05

just an ally but then

1:41:07

they come and and

1:41:10

accuse America of giving support

1:41:12

to Israel well how much support

1:41:14

Israel give the in assets

1:41:17

how much support the Jewish

1:41:20

population in the United States American Jews

1:41:22

give the American Treasury

1:41:25

from their tax money and the

1:41:28

in every aspect of economy

1:41:32

What conclusions did you draw about

1:41:34

the Jewish society in Israel as

1:41:36

you became more and more familiar

1:41:38

with its nature? First

1:41:42

of all, it's democracy

1:41:44

that it's a very

1:41:46

diverse society There are

1:41:48

the Muslims they are the Jews the

1:41:50

Christians their human rights

1:41:53

You know one of the things that was

1:41:55

just unbelievable During

1:41:58

the second person and in the father When

1:42:01

a building collapsed, and

1:42:03

there were clashes on the

1:42:05

checkpoints everywhere, shooting at soldiers, it

1:42:08

was very dangerous for the Israelis to

1:42:10

enter the city of Ramallah. But

1:42:12

when the building collapsed, we did not have

1:42:15

rescue team. We did not have a fire

1:42:17

department because it's such a corrupt system that

1:42:19

invested all the money in luxury, and

1:42:22

they never invested the money

1:42:24

in infrastructure. So

1:42:26

the dozens of workers stuck under

1:42:29

the rubble, and we cannot get them out. So

1:42:32

we had to call the Israelis

1:42:34

during the second Intifada while

1:42:37

we're shooting at them, said, please come into

1:42:39

Ramallah to the city center and help us.

1:42:43

So the Israelis sent the fire department,

1:42:45

of course, with the idea of to

1:42:47

protect them. The

1:42:51

entire day, evacuating the

1:42:53

victims, taking them

1:42:55

to Israeli hospitals. And after a

1:43:00

long day, the

1:43:02

IDF exited the city

1:43:04

of Ramallah, and people rewarded them,

1:43:06

shooting at them, throwing more of

1:43:09

cocktails, throwing stones, etc.

1:43:13

I was there because my job was

1:43:15

just be there to make sure that

1:43:17

the troops are okay. So

1:43:19

the troops protecting the rescue team,

1:43:22

I am there to make sure that the troops are okay. And

1:43:26

the civilians of Ramallah are waiting

1:43:28

for the troops to evacuate after

1:43:30

helping the Palestinians by

1:43:32

throwing stones, more of cocktails and shooting

1:43:35

at them. This

1:43:37

type of events, you know, it's just

1:43:40

insane. And

1:43:42

it just keeps going like this,

1:43:44

everything about

1:43:46

the Palestinian

1:43:50

mentality, the Arab culture. And

1:43:53

you see the law and order

1:43:55

that there is protocol, the Israeli

1:43:57

intelligence follow a protocol. No

1:44:01

one was arrested if Israel did

1:44:03

not have evidence of their involvement

1:44:06

in terrorism. And

1:44:08

no one was assassinated, especially

1:44:10

the most dangerous terrorist that

1:44:13

Israel could not arrest, that they were

1:44:15

hiding in the city

1:44:17

centers. None

1:44:20

of them were killed if they

1:44:22

did not have direct relationship to suicide

1:44:24

bombing attacks and they had blood on

1:44:26

their hands. None. So

1:44:29

you saw an organization that ran by rule of

1:44:31

law? Absolutely.

1:44:34

And there is no doubt about it.

1:44:36

And this is why I'm heartbroken because

1:44:38

I know what's happening in Gaza right

1:44:40

now really pushed Israel to the corner,

1:44:42

that they had no other choice.

1:44:46

And there was no possibility

1:44:48

to avoid civilian casualties

1:44:50

after October 7 because I know

1:44:53

at their heart they would

1:44:55

never hurt an

1:44:57

innocent civilian. And

1:44:59

they gave the – why did you become convinced of

1:45:01

that? Because in our operation,

1:45:03

this is how we dealt with the situation.

1:45:07

When you saw this first hand, like

1:45:09

later on, one of the exceptions of

1:45:12

my entire career, that it was a

1:45:17

day where the agency had

1:45:19

no choice but

1:45:23

to kill one of Yasser

1:45:25

Arafat's bodyguards. His

1:45:28

name was Muhammad al-Wahlao. This

1:45:32

guy was killed about 13 Israelis

1:45:35

and he was hiding in Yasser Arafat's

1:45:37

compound. I was the one who discovered

1:45:39

it. So I was the only one

1:45:41

who could recognize it.

1:45:45

And the

1:45:47

Israeli intelligence said, listen, we

1:45:49

have no one else except

1:45:51

you. And this guy is going every

1:45:54

night shooting and killing people. Yasser

1:45:57

Arafat gave him immunity. The

1:46:01

Israeli intelligence could not go into Yasser Arafat

1:46:03

compound and arrest him. And they

1:46:05

could not predict where he was going. And they didn't

1:46:07

know how he looked like, so they wanted him dead.

1:46:09

That was the only way to deal with him. So

1:46:11

the agency said, listen, you have your moral thing. You

1:46:14

don't want to kill anybody. But if

1:46:16

this guy is not dead, he's

1:46:19

going to kill people tonight, tomorrow night, and he's

1:46:21

going to go like this. So

1:46:25

this is when I had to compromise. The

1:46:32

first attempt atop

1:46:36

Fatah al-Ihir was in the car. His name

1:46:38

is Marwan Burguti. He is today in Israeli

1:46:40

prison, and everybody said that this could be

1:46:42

the next Palestinian president. And

1:46:45

the operation was canceled because

1:46:48

there was other terrorists in the car.

1:46:50

I'm not talking about, like, a civilian

1:46:52

in the car. And

1:46:55

this guy was so hard to find. Like,

1:46:57

the agency would say, you know what? Eliminate

1:47:00

both of them. We are not going

1:47:02

to take a risk that he's going to kill more Israelis

1:47:05

if it is. And the operation was canceled.

1:47:07

I was really shocked. I

1:47:10

was shocked. So our

1:47:12

job was many times when we knew

1:47:14

about the safe house of terrorists, OK,

1:47:17

is his family there? When

1:47:20

is his family leaving? Always

1:47:24

civilian situation was

1:47:27

taken into consideration. And this is

1:47:29

a 10-year experience. So when people come

1:47:31

to me today, it's like that Israel

1:47:33

is ethnically cleansing the

1:47:36

Palestinians. It's a lie. Israel

1:47:39

is accountable to international law. Israel

1:47:42

cannot do this. Even if

1:47:44

there was corruption, let's say,

1:47:46

some racist within the IDF,

1:47:48

and they did something illegal,

1:47:50

they would be held accountable.

1:47:53

But this is not a state policy. It cannot

1:47:55

be. But people

1:47:57

want to see it in black and white. You

1:47:59

can't try. to bring them other truth. Like,

1:48:01

for example, what's happening today is a collateral

1:48:03

damage. And

1:48:06

it's not only that. Who's

1:48:08

killing the civilians? These people

1:48:10

taking into consideration that Hamas put

1:48:13

booby traps everywhere. And

1:48:16

how would we know the difference

1:48:18

between Israeli airstrike and Hamas booby

1:48:20

trap that targeted civilians? And

1:48:22

how do we know actually that it's not

1:48:24

in Hamas' interest to kill

1:48:28

civilians? So

1:48:32

then how many Hamas? Clearly in

1:48:34

their interest. Of course. This is

1:48:37

the most powerful weapon in their

1:48:39

hands to delegitimize Israel and get

1:48:41

legitimacy. I think it's impossible to

1:48:44

understand the situation in Israel without

1:48:46

understanding that the Palestinians are expendable.

1:48:51

So Hamas is committing not only

1:48:53

a capital crime by committing a

1:48:55

genocide on October 7, which actually

1:48:57

defines the genocide. Then the Muslims

1:48:59

around the world outnumbered

1:49:03

Israel and

1:49:07

changed the narrative so fast that we

1:49:09

go from a Jewish genocide on

1:49:11

October 7 to a