On episode 61, Charles talks to Rick Brookhiser about his new book, Glorious Lessons: John Trumbull, Painter of the American Revolution. Among the topics they discuss are: Was Trumbull a good painter? Was he regarded as such in his time? What did he hope to achieve? Why did he have such a tumultuous relationship with Thomas Jefferson? What is the thing that Rick likes the most about him and the thing he likes the least about him?

The dial-up tone in the introduction was recorded by lintphishx and is used under a CC 3.0 License.