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It's the time of year when we're all thinking

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and enjoy flavor that's crafted to serve

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cold. The home with Duncan is

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where you want to be. Oprah's

0:41

conversation with Frank Bruni is part of

0:44

Oprah Daily's The Life You Want class.

0:47

You can watch the full class

0:49

and participate in others in the

0:51

monthly series on oprahdaily.com. I'm

0:54

Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super

0:56

Soul Conversations. The podcast. I

0:59

believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give

1:02

yourself is time. Taking

1:05

time to be more fully present.

1:08

Your journey to become more inspired

1:11

and connected to the deeper world

1:13

around us starts right

1:15

now. Hello,

1:18

hello, hello, and welcome, everybody.

1:21

Hi. We have people with

1:23

us from all around the world and from all corners

1:25

of the United States. This is so fun. Everybody

1:30

ready to talk vulnerability. I

1:32

wrote that what I wanted from today's class

1:34

was to offer you all aha

1:37

moments that leave you feeling fully

1:39

ready to become more

1:41

vulnerable with the people around you as

1:43

well as with yourself. It

1:45

seems that our culture and our

1:48

vocabulary has put such a

1:50

negative connotation on the word

1:53

vulnerability. You all notice that? That's

1:55

why so many people are anxious

1:57

or fearful of sharing and being

1:59

vulnerable. The dictionary says,

2:01

easily hurt or harmed. Who wants that?

2:04

Susceptible to physical or emotional

2:06

attack. Who wants that? It's

2:09

no wonder so many people have

2:11

a serious fear of being vulnerable.

2:13

When really what we mean here

2:17

is that vulnerability is the opening

2:19

up of your heart space, allowing

2:22

others in. And

2:25

the more we share our truest

2:27

feelings, our fears, our innermost

2:30

desires, the more we come to

2:32

see our own souls reflected in

2:34

each other. And the

2:36

things that we are thinking and feeling not

2:38

only make us who we are, they connect

2:40

us to each other. There is

2:43

no emotion you can have that

2:45

someone else hasn't had or felt.

2:47

There are situations that life hands

2:49

us, that thrust us into periods

2:51

of vulnerability. It's less of

2:53

a choice to be open and more

2:55

a direct result of circumstances. And that's

2:57

where we're going to dive in today.

3:01

I could not be more excited for our

3:03

guests. I mean, actually,

3:05

Frank Bruni is one

3:07

of my favorite people in the world. He doesn't even

3:09

know this. But I've had a big

3:12

crush on Frank Bruni for a long time. And

3:14

Gail knows Frank Bruni. So every time he'd write an

3:16

article in the New York Times that I would love

3:18

it, I'd say, I'm going to call him. I'm going

3:20

to call him. And I have his number, but I

3:22

never call him. So I was talking to Gail today.

3:24

He goes, finally, I'm going to get to

3:27

meet and talk to Frank Bruni. He's

3:29

a New York Times columnist whose

3:32

experiences span from restaurant critic to

3:34

White House correspondent to Rome bureau

3:36

chief. He's just so smart, so

3:38

wise. And at the age of 52,

3:41

Frank woke up one morning

3:43

blind in one eye and

3:45

then finds out that the loss of vision

3:48

he's experienced is really unfixable.

3:51

And that he has a 40 percent chance

3:53

of it happening to the other eye. The

3:56

vulnerability he experiences is

3:58

transformative. causing him to

4:00

look differently at everything and to

4:03

be more mindful, to actually be

4:05

more open, to be more

4:07

grateful. He has a new book

4:09

out, I just can't say enough

4:11

about it, titled The Beauty of

4:13

Dusk and it so keenly connects

4:15

to this topic of vulnerability and

4:18

I'm excited. So let's all welcome

4:21

Frank Brony. Frank! It's

4:23

so great to be here. Thank you. Macy's

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4:56

next generation of influential black voices can

4:59

be found on NPR's new collection, Black

5:01

Stories, Black Truths. Black

5:03

Stories, Black Truths is a celebration of blackness

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from NPR. Each of

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NPR's black voices are as distinct, varied

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now to Black Stories, Black Truths from

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NPR, wherever you get podcasts. in

6:00

2017 and found your

6:02

vision was impaired. At first you just

6:04

brushed it off you thought it was the four glasses

6:06

of wine it didn't occur

6:08

to you that something permanent I

6:11

think it was four right four glasses of wine. Yeah

6:13

okay you

6:16

didn't think it was something that was permanently wrong. Tell

6:19

us more about what was going through

6:21

your mind you know in that moment where

6:23

you realize something is off but

6:26

you don't want it to be really

6:28

serious and so you just ignore

6:30

it. Oh you know I convinced myself

6:32

for a few moments that I just needed to

6:34

clean my glasses more thoroughly. I convinced myself if

6:36

I just stepped into the shower and ran water

6:38

through my eye it would be okay and I

6:40

remember it so well Oprah I was at

6:43

my computer I was transcribing an interview that I'd

6:45

just done a few days earlier with the Bush

6:47

twins Barbara and Jenna Bush

6:50

Hager because I was writing something about them

6:52

and the words on

6:54

the screen were shimmying and

6:56

swimming and I thought this is

6:58

just this is just gonna go away at

7:00

any moment because I had that foolish boomer's

7:02

sense of invincibility and then when it didn't

7:04

go away I thought well I'm just gonna

7:06

go to the doctor tomorrow and I'm gonna

7:09

be told that you know this is as

7:11

simple as taking a pill or just waiting

7:13

another 24 hours but that's not what

7:15

happened over the next four or five days. I

7:18

took test after test I gave blood and

7:20

more blood and I was told that I'd

7:22

had a kind of stroke that

7:24

had that had strangled the blood to

7:26

my optic nerve behind my right eye

7:29

that it had basically ravaged that optic nerve and that

7:31

there was never going to be any repair for that

7:34

I mean and as you said the even scarier

7:36

part was I was told there was a significant

7:38

chance it would happen in the coming months or

7:41

years to my left eye and that I could

7:43

be blind and I don't think

7:45

I've ever felt so vulnerable or scared in my

7:47

life. I wanted to be told

7:49

there was something I could do to prevent it

7:52

I thought you know if there's something called eye

7:54

calisthenics I'll do eye calisthenics but

7:56

it turned out no I could maybe take a baby aspirin

7:58

a day I could make sure to to stay hydrated,

8:00

but I was at the mercy of fate,

8:02

which I think is the very definition of

8:04

vulnerability in some ways. Mm-hmm.

8:07

So, when you were navigating

8:09

this diagnosis, I know you

8:11

saw multiple doctors got lots of opinions

8:14

and there were doctors you met who

8:16

ended up being wrong about things and

8:18

gave you bad advice. I wanted to

8:20

share this just because I think so

8:22

many people, particularly as we age, you're

8:24

going to have to come in contact

8:26

with doctors who tell you things or

8:28

not tell you things about what's going

8:30

on and you can't always trust. And

8:32

you write, it's crucial to approach a

8:34

relationship with a doctor, any doctor, as

8:37

a partnership and to consider

8:39

yourself an equal partner, respectful

8:42

but not obsequious, receptive

8:44

but skeptical. Tell us a bit more about

8:46

what had happened and how crucial it is

8:48

to have an equal partnership with your doctor.

8:50

Because we've all been in vulnerable moments where

8:53

the doctor walks in with a look on

8:55

their face because they're about to give you

8:57

life-changing news and you're counting on them to

8:59

help you. I remember I was diagnosed with

9:01

a thyroid issue and the doctor just said,

9:03

young lady, you're going to have

9:05

to embrace hunger and, you know, feeling

9:07

like, okay, is there, is there,

9:10

so there's nothing else I could do

9:12

except embrace hunger and not eat. Okay.

9:15

So, tell us what happened with you. Well,

9:17

I'm, you had mentioned that a doctor initially said to me

9:19

there was a 40% chance according

9:21

to the literature that my left eye would go

9:23

the way of my right eye. Turned out that

9:26

wasn't true. It turned out more doctors thought it

9:28

was a 20% chance. That was

9:30

the sort of, that was the sort of gathered

9:32

wisdom of the medical community. Some doctors thought it was as

9:34

low as 15% and

9:36

I had to find that out for myself. Now, the

9:38

doctor I saw first was it was a wonderful person

9:40

and I think meant well but was

9:42

just sort of rattling off things quickly as

9:45

I cycled in and out of an office

9:47

where there were going to be a lot of other patients that

9:49

day. That same doctor told me that

9:51

I should be careful to fly with oxygen for

9:53

the rest of my life and that it was

9:56

as simple as when I made my ticket reservation,

9:58

when I bought my ticket telling the airline. to

10:00

provide me with oxygen, that turned out to

10:02

be entirely wrong. Wrong that an airline will

10:04

just do that for you with a request,

10:07

and wrong according to other doctors that I needed

10:09

to fly with oxygen. So if I

10:11

hadn't become an active researcher, an

10:13

active kind of partner in figuring out what

10:16

was going on with me, and trusted just

10:18

one expert, I would have been operating on

10:20

some bad advice. And it occurred to me,

10:22

and I think this is important for everyone

10:25

to realize, you're one of 15, 20, 25

10:29

people that the doctor will see that day. And

10:31

even the best intention doctor is only

10:33

going to be able to give so much of his or her

10:35

mind and heart to you. Whereas you

10:38

are taking, you're the only person you're

10:40

taking care of to the extent that

10:42

you're taking care of yourself. So you

10:44

have to really be your

10:46

own advocate, you have to do some of

10:48

your own research, you have

10:50

to remember also that your doctor is

10:52

likely a specialist who's going to see

10:55

everything about you through the lens of

10:57

that specialty. Whereas you're

10:59

seeing the whole of you. So for instance,

11:01

I saw some of the best eye

11:03

doctors in New York, not one of them ever said to

11:05

me, now that you've been told

11:07

you might go blind, how are you doing emotionally

11:09

and psychologically? Would you like a

11:12

referral to a mental health professional? That never

11:14

happened. Not one doctor told me there's a

11:16

whole field called low vision therapy where they

11:18

teach people with compromised eyesight like mine how

11:20

to make the most of it. I

11:23

had to learn that on my own. I

11:25

learned that there's a website called

11:27

clinicaltrials.gov where I can find out

11:30

if there are clinical trials being

11:32

conducted for my malady that

11:34

a doctor might not even know about because the

11:36

doctor has his or her eyes on

11:38

a million things and I have my eyes on me.

11:41

So that's what I mean about being an equal partner

11:43

in your care. I thought that was

11:45

so powerful. And you titled Chapter 2, when

11:48

one eye closes another opens. I

11:50

love that first of all. But tell

11:52

us how the other eye opened. else

12:00

in my life that I had a real choice. I

12:02

had a choice in this situation but I had

12:04

a choice in all situations to come and I

12:07

wish I'd realized this earlier that I could focus

12:09

on what was taken from me on what I'd

12:11

lost or I could focus on what

12:13

remained and that by focusing on

12:16

what remained by connecting with that

12:18

gratitude I was going to be a

12:20

much stronger person, I was going

12:22

to be a more contented person, I was

12:24

going to be a better person and you

12:26

know I'm a writer and I initially was

12:29

devastated by the fact that it was taking me

12:31

longer to read things, it was taking much more

12:33

care and effort, I was making

12:35

typos, I used to be the cleanest

12:37

writer in the world and I would look at a paragraph

12:40

or a page that I had just written and there would

12:42

be all these typos that had never been there before and

12:44

that was because of my vision and

12:46

I almost got

12:49

inconsolable about that but then I realized that

12:51

with a subtle shift of perspective and this

12:53

is what I mean about the other eye

12:55

opening, I was still getting to

12:57

write, I still had a career

13:00

as a writer, I had editors who wanted

13:02

my work and readers who were willing

13:04

to read me and so what if it

13:06

took me a little longer, so what if

13:09

it was harder, my privileges, my blessings,

13:11

what remained so much greater than

13:13

what I'd lost and that's what I mean about the

13:15

other eye opening. It

13:17

also opened in ways that you saw

13:19

other people who were

13:22

also suffering, I mean I remember later

13:24

in the book you talk about I

13:27

think you're in a park in New

13:29

York City and you notice all these

13:31

elderly people in wheelchairs, can you tell

13:34

us about that moment and how your

13:36

perception of how you saw other people

13:38

changed? Yeah

13:40

I didn't even notice those people before, you know I

13:42

used to go, I got a dog in the midst

13:45

of all of this which was one of the best

13:47

decisions I made and whether I was running with

13:52

her or taking a run by myself, you

13:55

know I really wouldn't often notice so

13:57

much of the human scenery around me and

13:59

after the happened to me and if I did notice

14:01

it, I didn't notice it in

14:03

the right way. So sometimes I guess maybe I

14:05

noticed elderly people in

14:08

their wheelchairs being pushed by someone in the park

14:10

and if I noticed that I probably felt a

14:12

pang of sadness for them. After

14:14

this happened I kind of looked at them more

14:16

carefully and I said, well wait a second, I

14:18

can focus on the fact that they're in a

14:20

wheelchair or I can focus on the fact that

14:22

they're out here still in the

14:25

mix of things in almost every case

14:27

positioned before some beautiful scene, before

14:30

a slice of majestic New York,

14:33

wrapped in a blanket, enjoying

14:35

what was still available to them

14:37

even in a state that we

14:39

normally consider diminished. I

14:41

don't like the word diminished anymore. I think we all

14:43

end up, as we age, certainly

14:46

if we meet affliction early in life, we

14:48

end up with new parameters but

14:50

I don't like to think of those as limits and I

14:52

don't like to think of those as diminishments. I

14:55

saw these older people in a new way and for

14:57

me that was a metaphor for all of us. So

15:00

what word do you now use? I

15:05

think of my life as having different contours.

15:08

I think of the contours of my life as

15:10

having changed but I do not think of

15:12

them as limits because again I think for

15:15

whatever I can't do anymore and I can

15:17

still do most things or for whatever takes

15:19

me a little bit more effort. There's so

15:21

many more gifts I've been given that remain

15:23

that are untouched by any of this. And

15:26

one of the lessons I've learned that I wish I'd

15:28

learned so much earlier in life and

15:31

this is a basic thing but I don't think

15:33

we remind ourselves of it. I

15:35

think we ignore it. We don't control

15:37

an enormous amount of what happens to

15:40

us. Broken bones, broken hearts, these are

15:42

going to happen and we're going to have

15:44

very little agency in them and we're going

15:46

to have to deal with them. But we

15:48

control the most important thing of all. We

15:50

control how we respond. We control our

15:52

outlook and our attitude about all of that and

15:55

it's such a basic thing. It's

15:58

such a fundamental building block. happiness

16:00

and I'm ashamed it took me so

16:02

many decades of my life to

16:04

get there and realize it but I think

16:07

about that every day now and

16:09

every day is brighter and better for that. Don't

16:13

go anywhere. More to come after this short break.

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No two travelers are exactly alike and that

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Yours. That's traveltexas.com/get

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your own. One

17:13

in eight. That's how many people

17:15

have worked at a McDonald's who serve

17:17

millions the best Big Mac and best

17:19

birthday party they've ever had. We

17:22

haven't just seen kids graduate from a

17:24

Happy Meal, but I've gotten

17:26

help graduating themselves because

17:29

they know the skills learned here.

17:31

Viamenidos, welcome to English under the

17:33

arches. Can't help you grow

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from here or keep growing here. Hi,

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welcome to McDonald's. One in eight. Start at McDonald's.

17:40

And where you start? Stay with you. Well,

17:45

it's so interesting because I think those of

17:47

you who have copies of the Beauty of

17:49

Dusk and have read it understand

17:52

exactly what Frank

17:54

is expressing here because I think

17:56

no matter what now

17:59

shows up. up for any

18:01

of us who are reading your book, we'll

18:04

have a different approach to it. That's

18:06

what the beauty of you sharing your

18:08

story and being vulnerable with all of

18:10

us certainly has done for

18:13

me is allowed me to see, ah,

18:15

your whole life doesn't have to

18:18

change. You can make an adjustment.

18:20

And in the case of your

18:22

friend, Juan Jose, who said that

18:25

he just looks at the blindness as a

18:27

characteristic, right? Said

18:29

to you that, go ahead, talk about

18:32

that. He's an amazing man and one of

18:34

the things I did after this happened, and

18:37

it's what I read about and described in the book, is

18:40

when I met people, I began

18:42

talking to them, opening up to them and

18:44

inviting them to open up to me in

18:46

a whole new way. And Juan Jose, who's

18:49

a diplomat from Mexico, very

18:51

high level diplomat, was

18:53

one of the new people I met through friends and

18:55

he happens to be blind. And he

18:58

does not treat that as something

19:00

to be grieved, and he

19:02

almost never did. And what really, really

19:04

impressed me about him is

19:06

what he has taken away from

19:08

the experience is an enormous measure

19:11

of confidence and also pride. So

19:13

he doesn't focus on what has

19:15

been made more difficult in his

19:17

life. He focuses on his sense

19:19

of accomplishment for managing those difficulties.

19:21

And as I watched him, as

19:24

I watched him do that, as I listened

19:26

to him talk about that, I thought we

19:28

have to change that saying, when God gives

19:31

you lemons, make lemonade. I think when God

19:33

gives you lemons, take a bow. Wow.

19:36

I love the quote though that you put

19:38

in the book where Juan Jose said, I

19:40

never saw it as a burden, I saw

19:43

it as a characteristic. Wow.

19:46

I think every single person can take

19:48

something in their life and apply this

19:50

mindset to the way they're thinking about

19:52

it. What struck you most when talking

19:55

with him? Well, It was the

19:57

sense of pride and confidence that he

19:59

had. It was also just he had

20:01

this. He is a talent for optimism

20:03

and I think it is a talent.

20:06

Where is he just points himself? Towards

20:09

the positive as every situation I was also

20:11

struck by something else and it's not just

20:13

in him but in almost everybody else. I

20:15

talk to Arm Year for the book, some

20:18

trump or possibly by to. They have never

20:20

even made it into the book. Everyone I

20:22

talked to who been through some struggle through

20:25

had some affliction. All of them talked

20:27

about and showed me how they could adapt

20:29

in ways we're kind of. Other muscles or

20:31

other resources came into play. it as a

20:33

move feel of it is really burgeoned in

20:36

recent years. I'm guessing you're you're very familiar.

20:38

With. The So proposed neural. And

20:41

it's all about how incredibly good our

20:43

brains are at. we y Leon cells

20:45

to kind of do certain things and

20:47

a compensatory fashion so it is well

20:49

known to people with diminished vision. often

20:52

hear better. That's because their brains have

20:54

rewired in a way to take advantage

20:56

of the stimuli still available to them.

20:58

People who don't hear well off and

21:00

see better wanna say was are lucky

21:03

human story of that in action He.

21:05

He hadn't gotten a sense and this

21:07

is i think kind of a metaphor

21:09

for how to make the most to

21:11

things he thought the sense of what

21:13

friends since the woman he was dating

21:15

looks like because with whatever little patches

21:17

his vision he had he kind of

21:19

put them together like a Picasso in

21:21

his mind. he filled in the blanks

21:23

with his imagination based on her voice

21:25

and and are touch and he had

21:28

made a mental picture that was probably

21:30

not that inaccurate of the of the

21:32

of the main woman the main part

21:34

romantic person in his life. And

21:36

I just thought that is an

21:38

example of of nimbleness. And.

21:40

Of adaptations that gives me enormous open should

21:42

give all of us help. it

21:45

also made me think about reading the

21:47

beauty of dust made me think did

21:49

this to this for you all to

21:51

differently about what blind this is because

21:53

i thought it always meant that you'd

21:55

use for seeing blackness is there was

21:57

nothing but that they're all kinds of

21:59

variations of of

22:02

an absence of 20-20 vision and

22:05

being blurred and being able to see

22:07

some forms and being able to see

22:09

some pieces of light can also be

22:12

considered blindness. You discovered so much about

22:14

people, some you knew while others started

22:16

as strangers, and through that you developed

22:18

your sandwich board theory. Can you

22:20

tell us about that? As I tried

22:22

to put what had happened to me in context and

22:24

tried to make sure I didn't fall into the trap,

22:27

the abyss of self-pity, I looked

22:30

around me in a whole new way

22:32

and realized that most everybody I knew

22:34

had been through some

22:36

kind of ordeal in their past, was

22:40

going through a continuing struggle, had

22:42

enormous disappointments in their lives, maybe

22:44

like some of the people who

22:46

were talking earlier in this program

22:48

had anxiety. And it

22:50

occurred to me that if we all

22:52

walked around with sandwich boards that listed

22:54

some of the kind of central

22:56

struggles in our life, mine might say, you know,

22:59

lost vision in one eye worry about going

23:01

blind. Yours would say something different.

23:03

Somebody else's would say something different still. But

23:05

if we did that, none

23:08

of us would be as prey to self-pity

23:10

as we are because we would understand that

23:12

struggle is sort of the default setting of a

23:15

human life. And I also think

23:17

we'd be much, much kinder and more patient

23:19

with each other. We'd find our

23:21

way to empathy much more quickly and robustly.

23:25

And I wish we would because I feel

23:27

there's been a coarsening in our culture

23:29

and in American life and I think it's partly because we

23:31

don't see each other clearly

23:33

and we don't understand how kind of

23:36

flawed and vulnerable all of us are.

23:39

Yeah. There's just so much

23:41

we don't understand about other

23:43

people just by looking at

23:45

someone. So Frank, you

23:47

later write in the book, Why Me? And

23:50

that there's a better question, of course, of why not

23:52

me and why should any

23:54

of us be spared struggle when struggle

23:56

is a condition that's more universal than

23:58

comfort? I thought that. was so powerful because

24:01

I think we all go through the world, don't

24:03

we all, thinking we're just supposed to be

24:05

comfortable, particularly here in the

24:07

United States, it's in our Constitution,

24:09

the pursuit of happiness. And

24:12

so we're not actually prepared

24:14

for struggle. We're not

24:16

prepared when things show up that

24:18

are not in our plans. But

24:21

more of that happens than not.

24:23

Can you address that for us,

24:25

Frank? Oh, absolutely. I mean,

24:27

everyone goes through every day trying to

24:29

conquer some sort of weakness, trying to

24:31

get over some sort of obstacle, feeling

24:34

some measure of pain. And what that

24:36

tells you is when in your life

24:38

you encounter one of those most difficult

24:40

moments, this is normal.

24:43

And what you have to focus on is

24:45

how am I going to manage it

24:47

and where am I going to find and

24:49

draw from my strength. But any moment you

24:52

spend saying, why me, is a wasted moment.

24:54

It has happened. It happens to everybody. And

24:56

the question is, how am I,

24:58

a strong person, going to get through it? The

25:01

other thing that I think is key here and

25:03

is a key facet of vulnerability,

25:05

to be vulnerable is to let go

25:07

of artifice. And to let go of

25:09

artifice is to live without

25:11

fear because you're not worried about being

25:14

exposed for who you really are because

25:16

you have shared who you really are

25:18

with the world. You know,

25:20

when you open up and you feel

25:22

rejected by other people or not getting

25:25

the response that you want from other people, it

25:28

often makes you feel that you

25:31

shouldn't have been vulnerable or you get shamed

25:33

by it. You know, Frank, there's something

25:35

you write on page 268.

25:37

This is actually one of my favorite quotes in the book. There

25:40

are devastations that break

25:42

a heart open and there

25:44

can be beauty in the

25:46

rupture, in the shards.

25:49

Can you speak to that, Frank? Yeah,

25:51

I think that's in a portion of the book where I'm talking to Cyrus

25:54

Habib, who was Lieutenant Governor of Washington

25:56

State and is blind and who did

25:59

something extremely extraordinary a couple years ago

26:02

and although he was someone who was likely to

26:04

be the governor of the state of Washington at

26:06

some point and was a rising young political star

26:08

He turned away from it all and became a

26:10

Jesuit priest and he's now a Jesuit He's now

26:13

in training to be a Jesuit priest and he

26:15

was talking about when you have he had lost

26:17

his father Who was very close

26:19

to he was talking about how in? Heartbreak

26:21

in that sort of rawness in that in

26:24

that in that rupture in those shards You

26:27

become so much more alert to other

26:29

people's fears and wants

26:31

and needs you become so

26:33

much more aware of What

26:35

life still holds for you as Sandy was

26:37

just talking about and that that's very beautiful

26:39

And that is and that is that is

26:42

a gift and it is a gift

26:44

that comes often At

26:46

the price of great struggle and great setback

26:49

Hmm there are devastations that break

26:51

a heart open and

26:53

there can be beauty in the rupture

26:55

in the shards Such a

26:57

beautiful sentence right man. You can write I gotta

26:59

tell you You

27:01

talk about vulnerability and you talk about

27:03

all the ability in two distinct ways opening

27:06

up being truthful about this human experience

27:08

And all the hardship anguish and grief that goes into

27:11

it, but you also Emphasize

27:13

the importance of being positive being

27:15

grateful looking at the glass half

27:17

full Which you know we

27:19

all hear that but you learn

27:22

to actually do that You

27:24

say we all hear that it's absolutely true. There are

27:27

a ton of cliches in this life You know like

27:29

yeah kind of glass half full like

27:31

the grass is always greener on the other side of

27:33

the fence I realized

27:35

cliches are actually kissing cousins with verities

27:37

You know they they actually really do have

27:40

a lot of wisdom for us if

27:42

we just look past their overuse And

27:45

I feel that in almost any

27:47

situation You can take The fork

27:49

that leads you toward feeling bad about things

27:51

and being scared about things and worrying. Constantly

27:53

Or you can take the other fork now.

27:55

I Don't want to make it sound that

27:57

easy. There are situations in this life. There

27:59

Are. Hardships there are and

28:01

people with a degree of.

28:04

Of struggle where it's not that

28:06

simple as just reorienting your thoughts

28:08

but for a lot of as

28:10

it is about reorienting thoughts doing

28:12

that hard work and that doable

28:15

work and and I just feel

28:17

that that. This has given me

28:19

a perspective where there's not a day that

28:21

goes by where I don't see and savor

28:23

on small things that just went by me

28:25

before I me whether I'm walking in the

28:27

woods with my dog and I see the

28:29

sun going soft, the creek and a certain

28:31

way and I realize that is a wonderful

28:33

moments and I sit with it for a

28:36

second. That's about seeing the glasses have fallen.

28:38

I think it's something that if we do

28:40

every day and every hour it it. It

28:42

enriches our lives so much. And

28:44

yeah, if he ended the book, you say? You

28:46

have a concession You said: there are

28:49

many days even after all these years.

28:51

Even after all this practice despite this

28:53

ever plastic brain when my vision does

28:55

a number on me, I downplayed that

28:58

in part because I still have trouble

29:00

describing the experience. Can you address That's

29:02

because you know if you're going to

29:04

the book you thinking oh my gosh,

29:07

you handle this so well founded right

29:09

Doctors, You realize that this was going

29:11

to be changing your life. You dow

29:13

moved and started a whole other life

29:16

in North Carolina. Everything you know

29:18

like you handled it. Perfectly.

29:21

But. There had to be really his were Edmunds

29:23

imperfect? Oh there, there are

29:25

many days and it's not perfect. There are days

29:27

when I in a certain sweats and eat too

29:29

many pieces of chicken and feel sorry for myself.

29:32

I. Know now though that there is a far

29:34

side to that of and I let myself

29:36

to that to an extent. Because.

29:38

I think you need to get that out

29:41

of your system and then I move on.

29:43

And good as the other kind of place

29:45

that I've been talking about. pets. But yeah,

29:47

I think none of us should be a

29:49

pollyanna. None of us should minimize the hardship,

29:51

have some of what we're enduring and going

29:54

through. But that's in part to get back

29:56

to that place I talked about with Juan

29:58

Jose. Don't minimize, it's because you. also want

30:00

to take the rightful measure

30:02

of pride and confidence in getting through

30:04

it. Yes, and as Frank

30:07

has said so beautifully in The Beauty

30:09

of Dusk, you know, it's all unpredictable.

30:11

We don't know when. I remember Gail

30:13

was here recently, I was reading

30:15

parts of the book to her, Frank, and

30:17

I said, oh, Frank Rooney says that, you

30:20

know, our bodies are ticking time bomb. And

30:22

Gail goes, well, what age does he say

30:24

it starts ticking? I said, I said, I

30:27

said, Frank,

30:32

Frank Rooney says after 50. And

30:34

then she goes, well, I would think that would

30:36

be like after 60 or something. Then I went

30:39

back and I reread the quote. And it really

30:41

is no age. I said, it's really no age

30:43

at all. I think from the time you're born,

30:45

you start, you start ticking, you're ticking time bomb,

30:47

and you don't expect when

30:49

something shows up. But

30:51

when it does, what you let us know

30:54

through The Beauty of Dusk is that we

30:56

can handle it. So thank you,

30:58

Frank. I'd love to end it right

31:00

there. What a positive message. What a

31:02

powerful reminder that with great vulnerability, also

31:05

comes great reward. And as long as

31:07

we root ourselves in a kind of

31:09

optimism, I think grace

31:12

shows up. Didn't you feel that grace showed up for

31:14

you, Frank? Absolutely. And that's

31:16

a perfect, perfect word for it.

31:18

Yes. Thank you so much for

31:20

being here today. The Beauty of Dusk

31:22

is available for purchase wherever you buy

31:24

or download your books. Thanks again for

31:27

joining us, Frank Bernie. Thank you so

31:29

much. I want to thank

31:31

you so much for having me. Well, thank you. Thank you.

31:34

I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been

31:36

listening to Super Soul Conversations. You

31:40

can follow Super Soul on Instagram,

31:42

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yet, go to Apple Podcasts and

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subscribe, rate, and review this

31:49

podcast. Join me next week

31:51

for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you

31:54

for listening. Oprah's

31:57

Conversation with Frank Bruni is part of Oprah's

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