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You're listening to Moody Radio 89.3,

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and this is mornings with Eric

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and Bridget.

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Who do you say that I

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am? It's a question Jesus

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asked his disciples, and it's a crucial

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question we have to grapple with

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today as well. Jason

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Jimenez says theological progressive

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teachers and churches are offering

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a version of Jesus that's different

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than what we've known biblically and

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historically. What is the danger of

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that? Let's find out as he joins us.

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He is the author of Hijacking Jesus

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and also the founder and president of

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Stand Strong Ministries. Jason,

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good morning. Thank you for joining us.

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Good morning, Eric and Bridget. Thanks for having me.

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All right. I think we need to define terms here first

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before we go too far. What do you mean when you talk

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about this progressive Christianity?

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Yeah, progressive Christianity, Eric is just

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something that has a different perspective

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of who Jesus is, contrary to what

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we see actually in the

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literal interpretation and understanding

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of the Bible as the infallible Word of God.

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So most progressive Christians do not

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believe the Bible is to be taken

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as the final authority. They think

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there's other truths out there, whatever

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your perspective might be. So

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Jesus ultimately, in the end, is

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not the Savior of the world. He's

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not the way truth in life. No man can come

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to the father except through him. They don't believe that,

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but they believe there's other avenues. So Jesus

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is more of a liberator, if you

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will, rather than a savior of

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the world who takes away our sins.

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And even in the title Hijacking

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Jesus, you say that the version

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that they're offering really emphasizes

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friendliness, acceptance, and

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even tolerance. It it really is

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a remaking of him in

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our own image.

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Yeah.

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I mean, and, you know, one thing I want to say to people,

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because when I in all my travels in talking, a lot

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of times there is some confusion and there are some

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things that sound good that are appealing

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and pleasing. And that's one thing I tell people is like, look

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what some of the perspective is, is

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that Jesus is he loved

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all people, he loves all people.

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But that doesn't mean that he loves all ideas

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that run contrary to his truth.

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You can't bring your truth or what you

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believe to be true that runs contrary

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to what we clearly see Jesus taught

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against or that Jesus affirmed.

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So yes, this newfound knowledge of Jesus

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becomes, according to progressive

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Christianity, a more profound

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truth that they think gives

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a richer insight. And that's

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where the deception, Eric and Bridget is

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among a lot of people. And so that was

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my attempt in writing the book, is to help clarify

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that so they know what the distinctions

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are between a progressive Christian and a biblical

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Christian, and ultimately really find

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out who Jesus truly is.

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The one thing they do is start at the beginning.

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They they start with Adam and Eve, and they also

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start with the beginning of, um,

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Matthew or Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Mark

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being the first. They start there to and say, okay, these

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these things can't be real or they have to be

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not what we're we're reading. Right. And

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they really go after the first when it comes to

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the faith.

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Yeah, you're.

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Right, Eric, and that's a good point, that that was something

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that I wanted to stress kind of in my background

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in training. Is that like you said, Mark

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is the first gospel. Now we can set

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aside for some of your listening audience

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about a cue source that was probably,

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you know, bits and pieces of information about Jesus

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and his teaching that was circulating in the early church,

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that maybe John Mark, who was

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directly in associate with someone known

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as Peter. Right. Peter, who directly

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saw many of these eyewitnesses as contemporary

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and apostle of Jesus Christ.

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But what they want to do is they want to discredit

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you, like you said, Mark, because Matthew

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and Luke, they know, hinges on the success

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of Mark. And so what progressive

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Christianity does is they use

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the gospel narratives and they use this word.

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It's called charisma. And what that essentially

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means is that they're really not historical.

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So we don't really know. This is according to

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a progressive Christian, right. They really

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don't know what exactly

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occurred over time. Things were just

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kind of inserted there and they didn't really make sense.

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And that's where through progressive

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Christianity, through that lens,

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they float around these exotic

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stories that more or less

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associate or align themselves with

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Gnosticism, which which

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denies at the very heart of Gnosticism.

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It denies that Jesus Christ is fully

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God.

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And one of those attacks and the way they attack

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that is even something like the virgin birth.

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How what what do they attack about

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that?

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Yeah.

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So the virgin birth again is we're talking about

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Mark being the first of the writings of the canonical.

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The virgin birth really sets the tone

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right from the beginning that we see in the canonical

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gospels. You know, particularly when you

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look at Matthew and Luke, they're introducing

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the story that we know that

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God came into the flesh and that

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Mary was impregnated miraculously

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by the third person of the Trinity, the Holy

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Spirit. Well, the very heart is

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you go back to what Eric was saying. They deny

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original sin in the garden. Matter

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of fact, most progressive Christians, not all

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of them, right to pay respect. A lot

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of them, but most of them

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believe that Adam and Eve are

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made up characters. And so that

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storyline is very fictitious. And so

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as a result of it, when you start seeing

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stories like the Virgin Birth and the

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Holy Spirit moving upon Mary,

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they say that's very pagan, mystic language.

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And we know that the writers or many

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of the writers, because they don't believe most

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of the writers, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote

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those gospel accounts. They said,

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these are stories that were put in there over time

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to make Jesus seem more special

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or what they use, they use the word deify.

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They, they, they deify

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Jesus to make him look more supreme than he

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actually was. And so they inserted

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a virgin birth story. Would

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they say that the pagans used all the time,

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and they even applied it to the Caesars that

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ruled in Rome. So in

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essence, they were just trying to magnify Jesus.

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And so by discrediting the virgin birth,

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what they've essentially done is one is they

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show that the Bible's not true.

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You can't believe it, that they were just

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a copycat religion. And therefore Jesus

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is nothing special outside of

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him just being a liberator or a mystic

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or a sage.

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And the other thing I hear a lot is that the Bible,

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you know, I see the Bible as fact. It's history.

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It's it's a way to see history

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in the past. But to see Jesus through history. Right.

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But they'll say, no, no, no, it's it's kind of

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just like it's a, it's a rhyme or a rhythm

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or it's a, it's, it's a

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metaphor or, you know, just different words.

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Words you can use. It's poetry. You hear

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that a lot, I think.

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Yeah.

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You're exactly right. You know what. And and that's

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a good point to bring up because yes, there's times

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when the way that we properly interpret

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something like when Jesus used parables,

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we have to understand the symbols that he's using.

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And progressive Christians love symbols. So

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what they actually think they're trying to do

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is they they believe they're trying to rid

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us biblical Christians, or they call

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us traditional Christians.

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They try to say, look, we're stripping

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away all of the rigidity

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and all this doctrine and all this false

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history that you've applied to Jesus to make

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him into God as the Savior of the world. What we're

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doing is we're going back to the proper symbols

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of what we actually see, metaphorically,

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that has a spiritual connotation in

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Scripture. So you're right. They they completely

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take away the history. That's why they call it charisma, where

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it's not about historical things, it's about

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ortho praxis. It's about right

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living our counter to that,

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and all due respect, we say no. We

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know how to live according to the

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standards and the teachings of Jesus that's

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laid out in Scripture. And as such,

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that is how we are to live life

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where, according to the progressive, as a relativist

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truth is determined by them. Therefore,

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morality becomes whatever they believe to be true.

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We are talking with Jason Jimenez, who

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is author of Hijacking

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Jesus and. But as you

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talk about this, what I hear, it's

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the same thing the enemy said in the garden.

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Did God really say they're

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attacking what we know is

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truth? And so that, you know,

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once you start attacking the truth

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of what God has said in His word, now

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almost everything is up for fair game. And

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that's really what the enemy did in the garden.

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That's exactly right.

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And that's the thing. This is actually a

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standoff. That's what I call it. And that's what's

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happening in our culture today, but also

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mainly within the realm of

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the church itself, is when people

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who are growing up and they're believing and affirming

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and confessing Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior

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and believing in the infallibility of God's

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Word, holding fast to it,

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believing in the Trinity that Jesus

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is the second person, the Trinity is fully God and

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fully man. And yet we know from

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the very beginning Satan was trying to

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engineer through deception

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and ability to try to move God's

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creation away from their creator.

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And what I try to do is recognizing

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that deception and helping passionately

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inviting Christians to come

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face to face with an unadulterated

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truth of Jesus. And that's ultimately what

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Adam and Eve had to learn, is to get back

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to who God truly is through that redemption.

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And that's what we kind of pave the way

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through the richness of history and through the

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illumination of the Holy Scripture to draw people

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back to who Jesus truly is.

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Jason Jimenez is with us. Hijacking

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Jesus is the book, and it is.

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It's historic. It takes you. Through the history

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of this. That is just fascinating and

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important. I think, for us to understand so that we can

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better understand or better hear

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these things as they are brought up,

9:33

I guess, and having that in

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the back of our mind so that as we hear things,

9:38

we are like, wait a second, that doesn't seem

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right. What what are ways? What are things

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that we should be maybe

9:44

attuned to some

9:46

statements or phrases or thought patterns

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that we should be attuned to. So if we hear it coming up,

9:51

we're like, wait, wait, slow down, back up. We need to

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correct this line of thinking.

9:55

Yeah, yeah, I do that in the third part of the book

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is ultimately, as we're asking the question, what is

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progressive Christianity? You know, how

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are they hijacking Jesus? You know, one we just talked

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about, they you know, they strip him of his virgin

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birth. So things like that, when they deny

10:08

things that we know to be true, according to Scripture, his virgin

10:10

birth, his miracles, his atonement,

10:13

that he died physically and literally on

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the cross, and that he physically and literally

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rose again, and that he will return one day physically

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and literally. So one is for us

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as Christians to be cautious and

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aware of when they deny those things

10:26

that runs contrary to what Christianity is.

10:28

And finally, when people start making

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Jesus out and this false portrayal

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of like, oh, he was a Jewish mystic

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and they start embracing mysticism.

10:37

Eric I would say that is a red

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flag. If they people start putting him into a

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woke teacher category, and he's inclusive

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and he's embracing all ideas and lifestyles,

10:46

or that simply like many people in the

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progressive Jesus Scholar category

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and you and the universities, he was just a

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revolutionist. He was a socialist. Those

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are red flags that people need to be aware of.

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So how do we counter

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those key points? I know that's a

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big question, and maybe you just

11:04

take one aspect of that since we just have

11:06

a few minutes. But what are some of those key points

11:08

when when dealing with someone who

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says, yeah, he was just a mystic. He was just a good

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teacher.

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Yeah. Well, Bridget.

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Got to say one by the book, obviously.

11:17

Right. All right.

11:18

People to get the book. But also I would just.

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Yeah, you know what I'd say. And this is so true.

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And I know we kind of say it and people think, oh,

11:24

well, that of course. And then they move on. But the reality

11:27

is no Matthew, Mark, Luke

11:29

and John. And when somebody says

11:31

to you like, hey, you know, Jesus was

11:33

all about socialism, just ask

11:35

them politely and respectfully. Remember, you can critique

11:38

a person's point of view without

11:40

criticizing them. Be patient,

11:42

ask probing questions and say,

11:44

you know, that's interesting. I've read Matthew, Mark,

11:46

Luke, and John many times, and I just

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don't ever see that in Scripture.

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Would you, you know, would you allow me an

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opportunity to see where you get

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that from and start having that conversation?

11:57

Take them back to the supposed source

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that lends credit to their point of

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view, and that will help a lot of Christians.

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There is a point also where I think we can

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be a little too meek, almost. I think

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we feel like they're they

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almost are smarter than we are

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or they have. I don't

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know what it is, but I feel like they use

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maybe terms. And we think because they call us maybe

12:19

more traditional, we feel like that's

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a knock against us. We need to stand

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up at times and just say, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's nothing wrong

12:26

with being more traditional in my theory

12:28

or where I stand as a as a believer,

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I, I think sometimes we look back

12:33

or we, we kind of get on our heels, I guess as a point.

12:36

Yeah.

12:36

I think, Eric, that's a great point. And I think

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if people start realizing when they're listening

12:40

right now saying, you know what, I love Jesus

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and I love the heritage and

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the traditions that we come from Christianity.

12:47

Let us not be deceived by the term

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progressive as though it implies something,

12:51

like you said in enlightenment, that they've learned

12:53

and they've modernized, and they're like a 2.0

12:56

version of Christianity. It is a

12:58

false Christianity. We as Christians

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affirm these truths that we hold together,

13:03

that have been given to us for over 2000

13:05

years, that have changed lives and

13:07

empires and kingdoms. So yes,

13:09

it's we are to defend,

13:11

we're told, to give an answer to those who

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ask us. Right? We see throughout

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Scripture that when people counter, they may be intellectual,

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they may think that they're smarter. And yes, there

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is an agenda that progressive Christians clearly

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say that they're trying to take back

13:25

who they believe is the original Jesus.

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And as Christians, we need to stand up and

13:30

not back down, not to be be meek

13:32

in humility, but and

13:34

don't be aggressive. But we got to speak

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the truth in love. And I'm telling you

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what I the way I wrote this book was to help Christians

13:40

do exactly that. Because yes, that

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was one thing I've always heard from people who say, well,

13:45

they went to school or whatever, and I really didn't, or

13:47

I didn't have that background, and there's so much smarter than me,

13:49

and I feel stupid. And I say, no, listen, let me pray over

13:51

you. Be fill the power of the Holy Spirit and

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know that God has given you a great mind

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and heart to defend the faith. He's called

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us to do it so he will not abandon you.

13:59

Now the book is Hijacking

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Jesus How Progressive Christians are Remaking

14:04

him and Taking over His Church.

14:07

Jason Him.in as the author who's been

14:09

with us, we've got a link to his website

14:11

and to this resource at Eric and Bridget. Org.

14:13

Yeah, thanks.

14:14

For the resource. First off, and thanks for the

14:16

encouragement. Also. We appreciate it.

14:18

Thank you guys.

14:19

I appreciate having me.