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based on you with DriveWise from Allstate. David

1:00

Lynch or David Fincher? Oh

1:03

God, yeah, that's awful. I

1:07

hate this game. I don't

1:09

like it at all. I

1:13

met David Lynch years ago when I was doing my

1:15

Mad Men days. Him

1:17

and I went to... Did you do some TM

1:19

with him? Did he do like the whole... No,

1:22

he didn't. He was so lovely.

1:26

And then I got to kind of become friends

1:28

with him. And he always called me Peggy. And

1:31

he called John Don. He never called us anything

1:34

else. He's a lovely

1:36

man. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy,

1:39

sad, confused begins now. I'm

1:44

Josh Horowitz and today on Happy, Sad, Confused,

1:46

it's Elizabeth Moss. You see Elizabeth Moss in

1:48

a new show you watch. That's just what

1:50

you do. Mad Men, Top

1:52

of the Lake, The Handmaid's Tale. She's

1:54

got Emmys. She's got a Fangoria Chainsaw

1:56

Award. She's Money in the Bag folks.

2:00

one of our favorite guests around here. Her

2:02

new series on FX on Hulu is The

2:04

Vale. It's awesome just like she is. A

2:07

big rousing stand-up for her everybody. It's

2:09

Elizabeth Moore. What

2:12

an intro. Thank you. I

2:14

forgot about the Chainsaw Award.

2:17

I feel like I don't know if

2:19

I've ever seen that award. I was

2:21

going to say, where does that stand in the trophy

2:23

room? Does that have a place of honor? I

2:26

don't know if they ever said it to me. I don't know where

2:28

it is. I would like

2:30

to put that's the kind of award I put

2:32

out. Right. Emi Shmemi. Yeah, yeah,

2:34

yeah. Yeah. No,

2:37

they're in the closet. That's

2:39

what I put out. It's

2:41

always good to catch up with you. A lot

2:43

to catch up on. We're going to talk The

2:45

Vale. We'll just catch up on where Handmaid's at.

2:47

I know that's coming relatively soon. But

2:50

first, just on a personal note, congratulations on everything. So

2:52

happy for you. I hope you're doing well. Thank

2:55

you. Yes, I am doing very well.

2:57

And yeah, very

3:00

happy. So thank you. Good, good, good. Okay.

3:02

So this is your third

3:04

time on the podcast. Just so you

3:06

know, you are now two away from

3:09

the coveted five-timer hat that rarely gets

3:11

given out. Really?

3:14

Oh, that's great. Yeah. Who has

3:16

the five-timer? So, your nemesis, Claire

3:19

Foy, does have the five-timer. I know.

3:21

I didn't want to bring her

3:23

up so early in the conversation, but... I know.

3:27

No, that's... We all know that's why I'm here. We all

3:29

know that's why I'm here. I think

3:31

it's important that your viewers, audience listeners understand that

3:33

the reason why I'm here is not to discuss

3:35

my new show, but to somehow

3:38

catch up with an overtake Claire

3:40

Foy. You will. You will. You've

3:42

got a movie in the can. I will. You'll

3:44

do Handmaid's soon. We're going to be back in

3:47

that before we know it. We're taking

3:49

jobs at this point just to get

3:51

on the podcast. So,

3:53

is Claire doing that kind of work? I don't

3:56

think so. No, I do. I do like, I

3:58

do like to think that next time you guys run... into

4:00

each other. There'll be a When Harry Met Sally beef

4:02

that you'll just throw down, start quoting lines at each

4:04

other and saying, who else

4:06

happy second used more and just see what happens.

4:10

Totally the clairvoyant, let the mask

4:12

get into this fight, the golden globes.

4:15

TMZ reports. All

4:18

right, enough about Hollywood feuds. Let's

4:21

get right into your new show. The veil

4:23

is fantastic. I was just telling you,

4:25

I've seen the first five of six

4:27

episodes. Yeah,

4:29

this is another winner. This is

4:31

no surprise. Obviously, yes, everything Elizabeth

4:33

Wallace touches is great. But you

4:38

also have a great pedigree behind this one.

4:41

Steven Knight, for those who don't know, I

4:43

mean, Peaky Blinders, a great screenwriter. I remember

4:45

way back when what Eastern promises he's done

4:47

a lot of amazing, amazing work. So how

4:49

did this one come around? Was this already

4:51

with Steven and developed and came

4:54

your way or what? Yeah, yeah. First

4:56

of all, thank you very much. And I kind of thought you would

4:58

like it, which is why I wanted you to see it. I wanted

5:00

to talk to you because I was like, I think you don't like

5:02

this one. So yeah,

5:04

it came to me with Steve

5:07

and Denise Denobi producing and already

5:10

at FX. And I got the

5:12

first two episodes. And I

5:14

had done I just finished season five

5:16

of Handmaids. And I kind of was

5:18

like, did this thing where

5:20

I was like, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do television, I'm

5:23

gonna take this year. And I'm gonna I'm

5:25

gonna do other things, you know, because television

5:27

is my day job. And I it takes

5:30

a year to make a season from from prep to the

5:32

end of it. It takes a lot of

5:34

time. So I was like, I'm gonna do something else. And then

5:36

of course, I got sent these scripts. And

5:39

I called my producing partner. And

5:41

I was just like, this is

5:43

the best thing we're reading. Like, I don't know

5:45

what to tell you, like, this is the best thing that

5:47

we're reading. And I

5:49

don't know how we don't do this. I

5:51

don't know how I don't do this. And

5:54

the pedigree was so amazing. I'd always wanted

5:56

to do something with FX, because

5:58

I love what they And

6:00

Fargo was kind of the reason why

6:03

I suggest a handmaids if that makes any sense because of

6:05

like more in little fields and And all that

6:07

and so I just think they're doing

6:09

such incredible work. So Yeah,

6:11

I kind of it was one of those like

6:13

I think I'm gonna regret it if I don't do

6:16

it things I would I would imagine

6:18

there are a bunch of things that you key into when

6:20

you start reading these scripts I mean image and I don't know

6:22

if it was it stayed the same in the in the

6:24

script to the screen But like the opening scene I

6:27

could imagine just reading that being like, okay Who

6:29

the fuck is this woman like she's got there's

6:31

something going on here first and just like in

6:33

broad strokes They'll let the audience in on this.

6:35

She's an MI6 officer

6:38

This is a limited series about Her

6:41

kind of deciphering whether the woman she's

6:44

hooked up with is a prominent Isis

6:46

leader or not The

6:49

CIA is after her the French authorities are after

6:51

her and it just moves.

6:53

It's international. It's got scope It's got some

6:55

born ish vibes But

6:57

sorry backtracking to the beginning my question like you

7:00

read that initial script and kind of like ask a lot

7:02

of questions about who This woman is is that what kind

7:04

of an intrigue you? Yeah, for

7:06

sure. And the first conversation I had with

7:08

Steve we talked for about an hour and

7:11

I was pacing around Neighborhood

7:13

I was living in in Toronto and so

7:15

shooting season five and we talked for he's just I don't

7:17

know if you've had The chance to speak to him now.

7:20

He's He's obviously can

7:22

tell by his writing. He makes

7:24

very beautifully and very eloquently and you

7:26

can kind of one of those people you can listen to

7:28

for an hour and it's just it's interesting and

7:32

he described her as this

7:35

woman who had You

7:37

know played all these different

7:39

characters and she's lived a hundred lives and

7:41

she'd had to put on these different

7:43

personas and then he talked about how Even

7:46

when she's playing somebody else she's not She

7:49

thinks she's telling the truth and she's not lying

7:51

and even though her life is a lie

7:53

It's not a lie to her because she's actually being her

7:56

most honest wishes and he got like

7:58

so she's an actor Steve Yeah,

8:00

and he and he was like, yeah, yeah exactly.

8:02

She's an actor. I was like, yeah, okay. I

8:05

yeah, I can do that I know what that is So

8:08

the idea of being able to take the kind

8:10

of in this meta way this this skill of

8:12

being an actor and play somebody Who's really good

8:14

at that? Was very

8:16

intriguing. Yes to me very intriguing

8:19

and the The

8:21

fact that you know, she changes every

8:23

single episode and every episode you learn

8:26

more about her and you know television

8:28

is so good now that it it

8:31

doesn't make any sense anymore to say like You don't

8:33

see that very often because we do

8:35

see that now But

8:41

um, but it is still great when you get it

8:43

and it is still awesome when you have the opportunity

8:45

to play a character who Does

8:47

develop and does change and doesn't do the

8:49

same thing throughout and honestly, I love

8:52

this by genre You know, I'm a big genre

8:54

person. Yeah, I Love

8:57

this by genre. I love action So

8:59

the idea of getting to like put

9:01

my toe in that world was

9:04

incredibly enticing and nothing

9:06

replaces Actual

9:08

going on location right and like being on

9:11

a rooftop in Istanbul cannot be done as much

9:13

as we love the volume And it does great

9:15

for Star Wars and other things like sure that

9:17

kind of scope. That's why the mission movies are

9:19

so great That's why the ones that really take

9:21

the time to like travel the world It's

9:24

just you feel it and that must be like you

9:27

must feel that in the moment You're like, oh

9:29

I'm making kind of classic old-school kind of like

9:31

big not filmmaking, but it is so, you know,

9:33

it's storytelling Yeah, exactly.

9:35

No, you're absolutely right. Like there's

9:38

nothing like being on

9:40

a rooftop in Istanbul surrounded

9:42

by that history

9:46

and Culture or

9:48

being on an actual mountain

9:50

in Central Turkey You know

9:52

that is not meant for

9:55

filming right that isn't really

9:57

even meant for people, right? And

9:59

you know and having to get an

10:01

entire crew up that mountain. It's

10:03

different. It feels different. It's a lot

10:05

harder. It's obviously way more

10:07

challenging than going to Vancouver, but it's,

10:11

or going to the volume wall, but it's, it's,

10:14

you, I think you can tell, I think you can

10:16

see it. I think you can see that it's a

10:18

real mountain and that it's, it is, we

10:20

were in Turkey, not Syria, it's supposed to be Syria, but,

10:23

um, but I think you can tell. 100%.

10:26

And I would imagine, I know a lot of folks are going to make a

10:28

lot out of like, you know, accent work. Folks

10:30

like us always like to talk about it a

10:32

lot, but like it must be a real thing

10:34

where like you have to credibly obviously adopt this

10:37

accent for months at a time. Like, is there

10:39

a moment, like two months into the shoot

10:41

where you're like, fuck, why didn't we just make her

10:43

a CIA agent? Like how hard was that? I

10:47

think that was like the first question. The

10:50

first question was like, yeah, just, just, just

10:52

one quick question. So she's, she's definitely British, right? Like

10:54

she has to be British because that makes, yeah, no,

10:56

no, no, no, of course that makes sense. Yeah. Why

10:59

would she be American? Um, yeah,

11:02

there never, I don't know. People, I guess,

11:04

feel different about accents. Maybe Meryl Streep was

11:06

like, this is super easy, but I, I

11:10

never quite find that they get

11:12

easy. I think it's constant

11:15

work and constant vigilance. Um,

11:18

I started in September and we

11:21

started September of the previous year and

11:23

we started shooting in February. Um, one

11:26

of the first things I did was get a

11:28

dialect coach and start working on the

11:30

accent because I was like, this is

11:32

just going to take some time. Yeah. I

11:35

just, you got to live in it. And,

11:37

um, I had Liz Timleston who

11:40

was my dialect coach who's actually been mentioned on

11:42

your podcast before. Um, I

11:44

just listened to your June and tumble up. So I think, you know,

11:46

worked with her cause she does Fargo. Right. Amazing

11:48

on that too. Yeah. Obviously incredible. And she's

11:50

like the one, like she did like Emily Blunt and

11:52

she's like the one. Um, and

11:55

we just started working in September and

11:58

I, I just did it. I

12:00

watched a ton of British movies and British

12:02

TV shows and listened to British podcasts. I

12:05

know I've listened to every Emily Blunt and

12:07

Carey Mulligan podcast they've ever done. I

12:10

know so much about their lives

12:13

and their careers. Any,

12:15

uh, yeah, no, sorry. Go

12:18

ahead. Yeah. No, no.

12:20

You just kind of keep going and going

12:22

until eventually I think it does get to

12:24

a place where it's

12:26

harder to go back to your own accident at the end of the day. And

12:30

then you know that you're in a good, you're in

12:32

a good place. Yeah. I know you

12:34

said to me and others before, like, you're not one to

12:37

kind of like do the diary, the

12:39

backstory of the character, right? You're it's sort

12:41

of like more like you just kind of need what's on the page

12:43

and in the moment. It's interesting to like someone

12:45

like in the gym, like I guess it's on the page too. Like

12:48

the backstory is so important. The

12:50

past that kind of rears its head as the series. So

12:53

does the same apply here? It's

12:55

like backstory is important, but it's

12:57

backstory that's in the script. Yeah,

13:00

it's definitely backstory that's in the script.

13:02

And then you'll see, you know, in the,

13:04

when you see the finale, there's definitely some more

13:07

there. But I did do a little more research

13:09

than I usually do, which is basically, I did

13:11

any research at all. And

13:14

I read because, because I love spy stuff. So

13:18

it was just an excuse. Sure. To

13:21

watch spy movies and to watch all the board movies

13:23

again and to watch the mission

13:25

possibly again and read books about spies. And

13:28

just, it was just an excuse to do something that I

13:30

already like to do anyway. And then like

13:32

call it work. So I did

13:34

do a little more because I did figure I should

13:36

know a little bit about the

13:38

spy world. But the thing about spies

13:41

is they don't want to tell you things because there's. I've

13:43

heard this. Yep. So

13:46

it's a little bit of a catch 22. I thought that

13:48

I was going to have the opportunity to like spy.

13:51

And like, you know, meet them in a dark bar somewhere in the U.

14:00

work and learn all your secrets.

14:02

No, they don't want to talk to you. Yeah, yeah,

14:04

kind of antithetical to literally what they do, what

14:06

they do with their life too. But

14:09

I would imagine like backtracking to like that kind of philosophy, is

14:11

that something you kind of came to at a certain point, because

14:13

I would imagine especially for a young actor, it's kind of

14:15

like, more work equals better work

14:18

and kind of like the self confidence

14:20

to know like, no, just because I'm

14:22

doing more doesn't necessarily mean it's going

14:24

to be better. It's working more efficiently

14:26

and knowing what process works for me.

14:29

Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think that the thing

14:31

that I've heard that makes sense to me is you

14:33

do as much as you need

14:36

to do until you feel like

14:38

you're on solid ground and then you kind of

14:40

let it go. Like, that to

14:43

me makes sense. I you know, I don't

14:45

know. For me, it just doesn't somebody

14:48

asked me like where my character was born or

14:50

whatever, I don't care. But I

14:52

just don't connect to that emotionally

14:54

for myself. But I do

14:56

think there's something to doing as

14:58

much as you can that you need to do. So then you

15:00

can just kind of forget about

15:03

it. And there's there's something there, but you

15:05

can kind of move on without

15:07

it. That's it. Though. I mean, there's so

15:09

many brilliant actors like, you know, I don't

15:12

know if we talked about Michael Stillberg before or not.

15:14

He's been mentioned by us. Yeah, definitely.

15:16

Yeah, yeah. You know, we're just so prepared. And

15:18

they're just they show up with these notebooks and

15:20

you're just like, I am a loser who does

15:22

nothing. And

15:25

he's brilliant. No, but then you hear

15:27

the flip side of you or you hear

15:30

like Anthony Hopkins, who totally demystifies the process

15:32

and just like just say the words and

15:34

like the other end of the spectrum. It's

15:36

whatever works. Doesn't really matter. Yeah, it's

15:38

it's whatever works and whatever makes you feel like

15:40

secure and that you know what you're doing on

15:43

the day. And you could show up and

15:45

you can do your job and support your other actors,

15:47

you know, and be there and support the material,

15:49

whatever I think gets you to

15:51

that place is what you should do. I probably

15:53

think about it more than I

15:55

admit. I probably think about it more than

15:57

I know. you

16:00

know, it isn't like I just show up. No, of

16:02

course not. Yeah, but you know what I mean? Like,

16:04

I do do something, but I just don't have like

16:07

a system. Yeah. I

16:09

don't have like a thing. Shh. There

16:17

are some stories about my mom's life

16:19

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16:21

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16:23

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16:25

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now. I

17:54

would imagine some work goes into the action that

17:56

is requisite to this role. And

17:58

I saw your chemical appearance, so I know this. was a

18:00

tough one on you. You had a pretty rough

18:03

experience with some intense action in this. I mean,

18:05

there's, I don't know which particular scene it was, I'm

18:07

guessing, was it kind of like the big rooftops?

18:09

It was the big rooftop. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

18:11

Yeah. It was the first time we shot that. So what

18:13

you see in the show is the second time. So,

18:17

yeah. So was this, I mean, again, that's

18:19

probably part of the appeal of this is

18:21

like to use your physicality in this way.

18:23

It's part and parcel of this genre. So

18:26

what's it like to go through that and like, I know you

18:28

said your mindset was like, put me back in

18:32

coach, but you couldn't really.

18:35

No, it was the only, it was the first

18:37

time in 35 years of doing this that I didn't

18:40

finish a day and I

18:42

left work early, which

18:45

is a very, very

18:47

strange feeling for me and was kind

18:49

of the worst part. I just had so much

18:51

guilt over that, but I couldn't move. So

18:54

I was one of the best people in the world. So what

18:56

happened exactly? Yeah. Okay. So I, we

18:59

were doing the first take of this rooftop

19:01

fight scene in Istanbul and we're shooting in

19:03

the grand bazaar. I think it's like

19:05

a Sunday. It's, you know, it's very difficult to get into.

19:07

They don't shut down the grand bazaar for

19:09

you. They, they were like, we've been

19:11

doing this for thousands of years. Like we don't care. You're shooting

19:14

anything. So

19:16

you, you show up and you do your best anyway. So a

19:18

lot of pressure on the day and

19:20

we're doing the first take. And I had trained for a

19:22

couple of months on this particular

19:24

fight and all of that.

19:27

And it was just, it was just a

19:29

snowball effect of, uh, it was

19:31

nobody's fault in particular. And it was everybody's fault.

19:33

Like we just kind of didn't do what we were supposed

19:35

to do to ensure that something was

19:37

a hundred percent safe. There were many

19:40

times, there were many points at which

19:42

we could have done it, including me. I

19:44

could have worn something that protected my back better.

19:46

Like I made a mistake. It was just a

19:49

bunch of mistakes. Anyway, it added up to me

19:51

being pushed back up against in the end of

19:53

the fight, this low brick wall on this rooftop.

19:56

And I went back against it and I went on

19:58

a slightly long angle. I just

20:00

knew immediately something was very, very wrong. I

20:04

sort of went down to the ground and

20:07

I stayed on the rooftop on the ground for

20:10

two hours. Um, there

20:12

was a little scary moment when we were

20:15

sort of concerned about like internal bleeding and

20:17

all that kind of, once

20:21

we got past that and we established like the

20:24

blood pressure was okay and everything, then it was

20:26

kind of just like, this

20:29

is just such a fucking nuisance

20:31

and I cannot believe this happens. You

20:33

know, anyway, eventually I get down

20:35

off the roof. It turns out I fractured

20:37

my back. Hospitals in Istanbul are fantastic. By

20:40

the way, just in case you

20:42

ever get hurt or need

20:44

any surgery. Fantastic

20:46

hospital. Um, but I

20:48

ended up having to recuperate for like

20:51

six weeks and, um, we'll continue shooting,

20:53

just not doing anything physical

20:55

to physical. Um,

20:58

and, but we got to go back six

21:00

weeks later, we got to go back and shoot it

21:02

again. That was my biggest fear was that they weren't

21:05

going to let us go back. Cause obviously it costs money to

21:07

go back. And I was, I would have

21:09

been devastated to not be able to finish that scene.

21:12

And you know, and so I, most

21:15

of it's such an amazing sense of accomplishment to get

21:17

through. I'm okay. Cause like that's, that's going to fuck

21:19

with your head to be in that moment. Like, is

21:21

it going to happen again? Are we doing the whole,

21:24

totally. I mean, look, we, we, you know, the

21:27

whole wall now was covered in padding. I mean,

21:29

it was like, I

21:31

was sort of wrapped in bubble wrap the second

21:33

time. Like it was, we shot it differently

21:35

instead of doing it in one long take.

21:38

We did it, you know, in sections, which

21:40

is a better way of doing things. But we, we

21:43

did our, you know, we did our best to make sure it

21:45

went okay. But it definitely was everybody was like a little nervous.

21:47

The first time we did it, everyone was kind

21:49

of a little like on edge and I was

21:51

like, guys, it's okay. I'm not going to break

21:53

my back. We're going to be fine. Um, but

21:56

yeah, it was an incredible sense of accomplishment to

21:58

get to go back. You

22:00

sell it on screen. I mean the bat the

22:02

badass poster if I were you I would be

22:04

having that poster hanging in your living room I

22:07

mean that's don't fuck with Imogen or Lizzie Hey,

22:10

no, it's a really cool poster.

22:12

It's pretty good. FX marketing is

22:14

like the top They do such

22:16

an amazing job And yet that poster if

22:19

it wasn't a completely asshole move to have

22:21

a poster of myself in My

22:23

home I would have that poster. It goes in

22:25

the room with a fangoria chainsaw award. I'm gonna

22:28

I'm your new interior decorator Exactly

22:31

No, the chainsaw where it goes next to the

22:33

bed. We've got the chainsaw award. Is it

22:36

a prime position? It's the first thing you

22:38

want to see when you wake up the last thing

22:40

the last thing before I go to sleep I want

22:42

to see that chainsaw I

22:45

mean we've been talking you've been producing now for a

22:47

minute and all these shows have your production company as

22:49

part of it Like is the is your involvement as

22:51

a producer different on this? Then

22:54

it has been on handmaids or the

22:56

other projects that you put your name on Does

22:58

it kind of now the same

23:00

model or was it particular to this project?

23:03

I would say Jiggy,

23:05

it's it's slightly different by the way

23:07

that they do things in the UK

23:11

And so that kind of changed things a

23:13

little bit which meant that I was even

23:16

more involved Than

23:18

handmaids, but it's impossible to be more involved

23:20

than I am in handmaids. So it's

23:23

kind of They're pretty similar. I

23:25

would say they're pretty similar. I would just say

23:27

that this, you know has

23:29

been as far as the

23:31

process from beginning to end I definitely

23:34

have been have been on everything

23:38

from Very beginning until

23:41

now. I mean, like I said, we're just we

23:43

just are working on the last few episodes

23:45

and finishing those to deliver So

23:48

yeah, I guess it's similar to him means It's

23:50

all right. I Handmaids is so

23:53

its own world and its own family and

23:55

its own like living and breathing things So

23:58

this is different in the sense of it's a new new group

24:00

of people you have to work with. But yeah,

24:02

I think it's pretty much the same amount of

24:04

involvement. So that gives us a

24:06

segue into handmaids and like, I

24:08

mean, so that is, it's a long, it's been

24:10

a long time coming, but we're kind of

24:13

getting there. I guess this is going to

24:15

be the project later on this year that

24:17

you, you start and finish. Is

24:19

there, is there a lot going on behind the scenes

24:21

right now in terms of getting this, like, where is

24:23

handmaids right now in terms of prepping for the final

24:25

season? Very much so.

24:28

Yes. Every, it's funny cause

24:30

I get a little fan frustration come

24:33

my way sometimes when people are like, where's

24:36

handmaids? Why isn't the final season? You know,

24:38

which I was like, ah, means so much.

24:40

I'm so glad, like, I'm so glad they're

24:42

not like, there's another season. So it's great,

24:44

but it's also like, I feel bad and

24:46

I want everyone to know that we're, we're

24:49

prepping it. We're working on

24:51

it. We're trying. And

24:54

yes, so we are, we are prepping right

24:56

now. And we start

24:58

shooting this summer. And,

25:00

but we started prepping.

25:03

I mean, we started prepping it last late

25:06

last winter, you know, script started coming in,

25:08

but yeah, we're doing a bit of a

25:10

pre-prep period because it's the final season. So

25:13

it's a big season. So we,

25:16

we wanted some additional time. And then

25:20

I was taking myself out of commission for

25:22

a hot second, which delayed us

25:24

a little bit. And then we'll start

25:26

up. Can you say

25:28

how many episodes are you planning to

25:31

direct any? I'm sure

25:33

I, I, I don't

25:35

know what I can say. I guess is none of

25:37

that. You can say anything. You're the

25:39

boss. They

25:42

can't do handmaids without you. That's

25:45

right. I'm the boss. I don't know what

25:47

I can say. Cause we haven't announced

25:50

how many I'm directing. Okay. But

25:52

you will be directing. I'll text you

25:54

and I'll tell you. This

25:57

is where our friendship gets blurry because

25:59

I'm like, just tell you. That's okay. Let

26:01

me say this, Handmaids and you came up very recently,

26:03

I had Sydney

26:07

Sweeney on the podcast. She's everywhere right now doing

26:09

so much and it's so sweet to hear her

26:12

talk about truly watching

26:15

you on Handmaids as both an actor and a

26:17

producer and a leader be an

26:19

inspiration to her as you see

26:21

she's producing so much now and doing so

26:23

many different kinds of projects. And I'm just

26:25

curious like seeing folks like Sydney, seeing McKenna,

26:28

these young actresses and you obviously started

26:30

out right as a kid to see

26:32

them blossom and kind of learn even

26:35

just by example seeing you that

26:37

must be meaningful. Yeah, yeah, totally.

26:39

That's super nice by the

26:41

way. That's awesome. But yeah, it

26:44

is meaningful. I mean, I had

26:48

women that I looked up to, you know,

26:50

coming up and that were producing like Sandra

26:52

Bullock and Reese Witherspoon

26:54

and you know, I mean, too many

26:56

to count and director

26:59

actors, Jodie Foster and these people and so

27:02

I had women that I looked up to that kind

27:04

of showed me like, oh, there's another a

27:06

whole other facet to this job that you

27:08

can do. And sort

27:11

of, I remember talking to Sydney years ago,

27:14

just after she was on Handmaids, I remember talking

27:16

to her because she said, I want to start

27:18

producing and having

27:21

conversations with her and just kind of

27:23

encouraging her and helping her in any way I

27:25

could. So that's very nice of

27:27

her. But yeah, it is. It means, totally

27:30

means a lot. It's to

27:33

me, I'm like, that doesn't that's

27:35

not how I look at myself necessarily. So

27:38

it's a lettering. Well, no, but

27:40

it is like a new model that like, thankfully,

27:43

we're seeing more and more of like back in

27:45

the day, especially for young actresses, like, if

27:47

you were in that near 20s, you were

27:49

just taking the best you could get and

27:51

just riding the wave. But like we're seeing

27:53

more and more folks that can like actually

27:56

like take ownership of their image of their

27:58

career. And that's really, that's huge. It

28:00

is huge. It is huge. And it's

28:02

amazing that it's kind of more the norm, right?

28:05

So it's becoming, right. So it's becoming more of

28:07

something like if you're going to lead a show

28:10

for a season or two or three or five

28:12

seasons, then you're the person

28:14

who they're selling the show on.

28:17

You're the person who's doing a lot of the work. And

28:20

yeah, you should absolutely have a say and ownership

28:22

in the material and ownership and how it's

28:24

done if you want to which

28:27

is fine. But you know, if you

28:29

want to then, then absolutely. And yeah,

28:31

it's having come from,

28:34

I mean, this is where I sound

28:36

like a senior, but having come from the

28:39

time when that was just not

28:41

at all. Right. What you

28:43

did. Not even an option. Not even like in the

28:46

realm of. No, it was

28:48

like, it wasn't even a thing is

28:50

like, yeah, it's really, it's, it

28:52

is really awesome to see how

28:54

far it's come and to have

28:57

actresses bring their own material to

29:00

a network or a studio, you

29:02

know, and see, this is the

29:04

kind of thing I want to

29:06

do. Like, that's awesome. Speaking of

29:09

female friendships, mentorships, June and Serena, let's

29:12

just give a little love here because when I, when I

29:14

bring up handmaids on social, etc.,

29:16

I mean, you know how folks are obsessed with

29:18

the trajectory of this relationship. I mean, it went

29:20

from, you know, people wanting

29:22

to see June take Serena down to now

29:25

this kind of strange, amazing kind of like

29:27

shipping of them in a way. How

29:30

closely are you attuned to that? Do people

29:33

have you seen like the fan edits of

29:35

this relationship? Oh, no. Oh,

29:37

yeah. I'll send you some. Okay. Oh my

29:39

God, you asked you. I didn't even

29:41

know that was a thing. Really? But

29:43

you must be aware though of just like

29:45

the, the, the passionate interest in that, in

29:48

that relationship. And I guess the question is,

29:50

do you guys, would

29:53

you ever like write to that not

29:55

to chase what the fans want, but to

29:57

kind of like hear what they are liking

29:59

or loving? and say, oh, is this

30:01

worth talking about more in the room? It's

30:04

kind of the reverse because I think the reason

30:06

I'm aware of it is because I agree.

30:09

I love that. I don't know

30:11

the ship. I don't know how to use the

30:14

word ship in a sentence because I'm way too

30:16

old for that. I can get away with it. Don't

30:18

worry. I think I said it right. I'm

30:21

so great to me, but I'm not the judge. So

30:24

the reason why I get it is because

30:26

I agree and I love it too. Like

30:28

I think that they, like it, it, the

30:32

reason why I think the fans have picked

30:34

up on it and gravitated towards it is

30:37

because we put

30:39

it there. Like that's, we love the two

30:41

of them together. And I love

30:43

the two of them. I've always loved

30:45

Serena as a character and what Yvonne

30:48

does with her. And

30:50

we've always seen the parallels between them.

30:52

So it's only just so gratifying when

30:54

the audience gets it and picks

30:57

up on it and likes it. But

30:59

to answer your question, and I've experienced

31:01

this on TV before, especially with Mad

31:03

Men, there is a back and forth,

31:06

I think, that happens with the fans

31:09

and the makers of the show. You

31:12

know, you do feel like you, it's

31:14

like you write to it, but you do have an

31:16

understanding and awareness of what's working and what's not. You

31:19

know? And I mean, I'm not a

31:21

believer in, I'm not making the show for anyone else but

31:23

the fans. Like not making the show

31:26

for, you know, the

31:28

network or this person or you're making it

31:30

for the people who love it. And

31:33

so because of that, you are

31:35

aware of, of course, what

31:37

they respond to and what they don't respond

31:39

to. And I

31:42

agree with them responding to

31:45

June and Serena so wholeheartedly

31:48

and truly believe that it is their show. Like I

31:51

know it's, I know it's June's story, it's the Handmaid's

31:53

Tale, but I really believe

31:55

that it's June and Serena's story. And we're very

31:57

much. going

32:00

down that road in the final season. I'm

32:03

the first person, even as a director, to be like,

32:07

forget June, let's focus on Serena for this episode.

32:09

You know, like, I just think that Yvonne

32:12

said it so well when she said there's no June,

32:15

there's no Serena without June, and there's

32:17

no June without Serena, and that's so true. And

32:19

so to me, the parallel stories are,

32:22

that's our, I love that part of the show

32:24

so much. So, I totally

32:27

agree with the fans on this one. I'm

32:29

sure the shooting of the final season will be

32:31

full of kind of full circle moments. In a

32:33

weird, here's the dark twist. You're gonna

32:36

be shooting this potentially around the

32:38

election. Oh yeah. Can you imagine?

32:40

Which we've talked about this before, obviously everybody probably

32:42

knows by now, like beginning of Handmaids came in

32:44

that pivotal 2016 election. That's

32:47

how we started, yeah. Here we go again, how

32:49

is this possible? I know, but

32:51

that's how we started. And it was sort of,

32:54

we were kind of naive and sort of, I

32:56

guess, as many people were. We were kind

32:58

of like, well, we're making a TV

33:00

show. I mean, it's a bonnet space, but I'm Margaret Atwood book.

33:04

Now I think we're going into it a

33:07

little bit more aware of the parallels and

33:09

the relevancy and all of that. But

33:11

yeah, yeah. I mean,

33:14

we're used to being, we're making a show about

33:16

extremely relevant topics. So

33:19

we are used to being somewhat parallel

33:22

or involved in, or

33:25

just being aware of what's actually happening in the world

33:27

and in politics. But yeah, this would

33:29

be definitely a big, a big part

33:31

of the year for us. Yeah, for

33:34

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35:13

I know you're not one necessarily. It's like once kind of

35:15

like a show is done, a project's done, you

35:17

kind of like are happy to kind of leave it

35:19

behind because you want new experiences, etc. And you also

35:22

know we're in a culture that's like always going

35:24

to be asking you about the reboot, the sequel to

35:26

everything. It's part

35:28

of my job too, but I'm just curious like when you

35:30

look at some of the iconic shows you've been a part

35:32

of, like do any of

35:34

them appeal at this point? Like which would like

35:36

of like of Mad Men, of West

35:38

Wing, of Top of the Lake? Do

35:41

any of them appeal in the in the smallest

35:43

degree to that would be interesting to revisit in

35:45

some way at some point? Top of

35:47

the Lake, for sure. That's your favorite character.

35:50

I mean that's just working

35:52

with Jane. Like I don't know if

35:54

it's my favorite character, but working

35:57

with Jane is just like you know the Holy Grail.

36:00

So I and I, uh, have

36:02

been done it in too long. Like I need to work with her

36:05

again. It's been too long and we've every,

36:07

maybe about like once every couple of

36:09

weeks, I think about doing

36:11

another season of chocolate lake. Um,

36:14

we've, it was something that we kind of talked about at

36:16

one point. And anyway, I always, I

36:19

owe someone an email. Okay. Yeah. Because

36:23

I just think that that story is, it

36:25

has a natural, um, conclusion

36:28

to it. It has kind of a, it has

36:30

a third round to it. And

36:32

I think returning to that would be, I

36:34

just think it'd be so interesting. That's not

36:37

to say that like, you know, of course

36:39

I miss madmen and of

36:41

course, I love Peggy's probably, I

36:43

mean, how do you, I don't know how you

36:45

say who's your favorite character, but, but

36:48

just as far as a show and a story that has

36:50

more to tell, I think chocolate lake has more to

36:53

say for sure. Um, we've

36:55

talked also about invisible man and you

36:57

and Lee creating such an amazing, like

36:59

the last pre pandemic ginormous hit. This

37:02

is a movie that

37:04

made 20 times its budget that does

37:06

not have a sequel green

37:08

lit. And I know the last time

37:10

you were on the pod, we talked, you said you and Lee, we're

37:12

at least talking about it and trying to crack it. Have

37:14

you cracked this? Where are we at? So

37:17

here is Nietzsche. I'm going to, going

37:19

to try to craft a response. Okay.

37:22

That tells me everything, but go, go for it. We

37:27

are, I would say, um, and

37:30

by we, I mean Blumhouse

37:32

and my production company, um, Lee's

37:35

doing, I think a little for them. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

37:37

They're shooting right now. Yeah.

37:39

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um, we

37:42

are closer than we have ever

37:44

been. And

37:48

to cracking it. And

37:50

I feel very good about it. And

37:53

we are very much

37:55

intent on, on, you

37:58

know, continuing that. Now,

38:01

again, this is probably another tough question for you

38:04

to answer, but so he is doing Wolfman right

38:06

now. There's no chance that I'm going to see

38:08

you pop up in that. Is this like this

38:10

like collective monster universe thing that we're seeing crafted?

38:14

I would love that. I wish. I think

38:16

that's the idea for Universal in the future

38:18

if we can, if you know Wolfman goes

38:20

well and all that, but is to

38:23

kind of revive that universe. But

38:25

no, I unfortunately, I'm not, I have not been asked to

38:27

be in Wolf. I would love to. Is this shitting in

38:30

New Zealand? Oh, are they? Yeah.

38:32

And Christopher Abbott, who's been like one,

38:34

one cool, like, you know, mainstream part

38:36

away from like killing it. Yeah. Yes.

38:39

So jealous. And isn't Julie Garner in

38:41

it? Yes. Oh, I mean,

38:43

come on. Come on. Come on. Look at

38:45

that. I mean, who is she's literally the top?

38:48

Yeah. So, um, no, I won't

38:50

be, I won't be on this one. But if

38:52

we can get this sequel happening, then maybe we

38:54

can get a universe started. We

38:59

talked about the lovely progress for especially young

39:01

women production companies and kind of like create,

39:03

you know, crafting their own careers. And

39:05

also like, here's my flip side of that.

39:08

I said before, you know, Invisible Man gets

39:10

20, makes 20 times its budget. Yet

39:13

I don't see, I mean, look, you're doing amazing, amazing

39:15

work on TV. And it's not any less than film,

39:17

but it's kind of crazy. You haven't led a film

39:20

since being the star of a

39:22

movie that was that successful.

39:26

I know it is kind of funny. So a funny

39:28

thing happened where I

39:30

got so like 2020 happened

39:33

in the pandemic and then everybody sort

39:35

of got back to work. Some people got back to work.

39:38

And this circumstance happened where

39:41

I went back and did season four of

39:44

Handmaids. And then I had a commitment to

39:46

do the Apple show, Shining Girls. So

39:48

I had to go right into that after. And

39:51

there was, there was, there was no arguing about

39:53

that one, no matter

39:55

what I wanted to do. And then I

39:57

had to go into season five.

40:01

of handmaids because obviously Hulu

40:03

was like, can we make

40:05

another season please? So

40:08

this circumstance happened where

40:10

I ended up doing

40:12

three seasons of television back

40:14

to back. Actually

40:17

now it's four with the veil. It's

40:20

kind of one of those things of like,

40:23

you're obviously not going to complain because then

40:25

you're a total fucking asshole. And

40:28

I've loved doing that

40:30

work so much. But that is kind

40:32

of what put me in

40:34

a place of what

40:36

you just said. Yeah.

40:40

Like there have been things that I

40:43

could have done film-wise that I

40:45

wasn't able to do because of

40:48

these commitments, which again,

40:50

extremely grateful for. But I'm kind of getting

40:52

into a place now where it's starting to

40:54

even out a little bit. It go

40:57

back to a little bit more hopefully

41:00

50 50, which I prefer. I just

41:02

did Max Miguel's movie. Of

41:04

course. I was going to mention this. Yes.

41:06

So you've directed Max now turn about his

41:08

fair play. So excited. He's back directing. We

41:10

love Max around here. You know that. What

41:14

was the experience like? This is Shell. Yeah,

41:17

this is Shell. So this is a movie that he

41:19

asked me to do last year. And he

41:21

basically, I texted him and I

41:23

was like, when are you going to direct me to a movie? And

41:26

he was like, well, actually I do have something to

41:28

send you. And he was like, okay, so if I

41:30

hadn't texted you, would you just like,

41:33

is this how movies are made now? But

41:36

he sent it to me. I think he was a

41:38

little hesitant because of our friendship and just hesitant that,

41:40

you know, if I didn't like it, would

41:43

feel bad saying that. And you didn't want to

41:45

cross that line. But

41:47

anyway, he sent me. Thank God I loved it. I didn't

41:49

have to. It didn't have to be awkward at all. And

41:51

I was attached to it. And then there was this sort

41:53

of long kind of, you know, saying of when are we

41:56

going to make it in financing and all of that. And

41:58

then we got to the end of it. really

42:00

close and we were gonna make it and

42:02

then I thought I was gonna have a

42:04

baby and I had to

42:07

call him and say I you know I'm

42:09

so sorry but I'm not gonna be able to

42:11

to do this movie and I I'm

42:14

so I was stuck out awful

42:17

and congratulations blah blah blah and

42:19

then he was like well what makes you think you can't do the

42:21

movie and I was like do tell

42:23

so we just kind of rejiggered things a

42:27

little bit and worked on you know kind of a little

42:30

bit of the story and made it possible for me to

42:32

do the film when I was like five and six

42:34

months pregnant it's just crazy. Amazing.

42:36

Yeah. Surprisingly

42:39

you've never done the happy second fuse profoundly

42:41

random questionnaire even in our many

42:43

chats so I'm gonna do some rapid fire stuff for you.

42:46

First I'm gonna have some film specific stuff here.

42:48

Okay. So this is more kind of like taste

42:50

or what you'd want to be a part of.

42:53

Okay. Dune or Harry Potter.

42:56

Dune or Harry Potter. I

42:59

just rewatched a bunch of Harry Potters

43:01

just randomly. You've

43:04

got the British accent they're doing the reboot another TV

43:06

show though that's gonna take a lot of time that's

43:08

gonna be like five years of your life you gotta.

43:10

Yeah I don't know if I I'm getting old I don't know if

43:13

I have that kind of time anymore. I

43:16

would say Dune because obviously to work with you

43:18

know that director and to work I mean yeah

43:20

you gotta go with Dune. Star

43:23

Wars or Marvel. Oh

43:26

wow this is like hard hitting. Jeez

43:31

I guess Star Wars. I think

43:34

Star Wars but I've watched I've seen almost

43:36

every single Marvel movie so I'm

43:38

not not a fan. I guess

43:42

Star I think I would fit maybe better

43:44

into Star Wars maybe. You would be

43:46

a badass Jedi come on. Thank you. I mean

43:48

you fit in either one. You fit in either

43:50

one. I did go to Disneyland and

43:54

make my make a lightsaber. You got a

43:56

lightsaber yeah yeah nice. Steven

43:58

Spielberg or Steven Soderbergh. Oh

44:00

okay, this is a frugal the i

44:03

don't just magically dollars you do not

44:05

isolated are not be offended. This update

44:07

you're going to if I don't get

44:10

a movie to speak I am I'm

44:12

earning. You have any sports figures? Muchas.

44:17

I think. As obviously be huge Soderbergh them.

44:19

but Spielberg and. I

44:21

think Soderbergh would agree. That I should go with

44:24

Spielberg. He's he's a little older

44:26

so you know you god may be go

44:28

with you. but without going to kill a

44:30

the percentages a mob summer in a little

44:32

Steven Spielberg for a out of his new

44:34

to be that this is a mean one

44:36

So they're going to hate this would to

44:38

David when Sir David Fincher. Oh

44:41

God yeah That Oswald. Was

44:45

his I hate this. Early

44:47

in at all. Sir

44:49

I met David Lynch years ago when

44:52

I was doing Imma yeah well known.

44:54

My madmen did am and I went.

44:56

To I'm did you some see I'm with

44:58

him that he do with the whole middle

45:00

distance know we didn't. Know. Is

45:02

a was he was a lovely and then I

45:04

got said. And have become friends with him

45:07

and he always called me Peggy. And

45:09

he called John Donne. He never called this meeting

45:12

else. Is. A lovely

45:14

man. lovely in any way.

45:16

On. With up the is the

45:18

pincer vod it all but at the history censored

45:20

that nine thousand takes is that something you'd be

45:23

like the Ontario Mills on Down. Totally

45:25

I told him I did turn up. My know

45:27

is that I mean it's not the way I

45:29

would work but I am not going to say

45:31

no to be a picture of and it works

45:33

so well for. Him to buy sodas? Yeah, yeah

45:35

yeahs. who? Are you doing fine? And

45:37

in? Fincher is literally one of my

45:39

favorite type. Probably. Top. Who. Are

45:42

three or four favorite directors? But

45:44

I'm gonna go with David Lynch

45:46

because he's a legend and because

45:48

of twin. Peaks. My.

45:50

Career exists. Though

45:52

I would go with. I have to

45:54

go with him once he, as you well know the

45:57

podcast is another forty five minutes or so. I did

45:59

agree. I see. He did ten Minutes

46:01

with me a couple years ago. I had to

46:03

say yes, I mean how do you say noted

46:05

a student? ten minutes with David When so I

46:07

I spat but been saddled with worth. See that

46:10

you're releasing Inland Empire which I don't have you

46:12

ever seen, but that's I got, that's it. Been

46:14

done by when standards As a crazy one and

46:16

one of my most treasured possessions. Nearby in my

46:18

kitchen is a Mugs. David. Lynch sent

46:21

an autographed month David Lynch. Was I

46:23

just staring? At

46:25

on sold across like your bank or it's

46:28

and so or that's mine. That's mine tonight.

46:30

Dance Fifth, Edition Just sign.

46:32

Energy rights are being just. Nine That

46:34

of Society is hop Panelists. All

46:36

could lie, a coffee mug and. Pretend

46:39

he's it infamous coffee lover and he

46:41

actually like like cells kospi a musician

46:43

do any really yeah and I think

46:45

he also be a person the deal

46:47

of the David Lynch on weather report

46:49

he's done. To yeah.

46:52

I mean, it's just like there's no one like

46:54

and at Adam as you found this in your

46:57

ten minutes and time with them. But she's lovely

46:59

little. They're going on a runny yeah,

47:01

Like you like this lessig midwestern by

47:03

need. Western. Like sweetheart you know,

47:05

and then like the screeners to my to

47:08

like a Vince Gilligan. You know he's just

47:10

like. Sisters. Just

47:12

a nice this guy. You. Know

47:14

and then dell. It just creates things

47:16

that are list for sadistic. Beloved

47:19

Saga of gives you a few more that

47:21

are not film related. They will be a

47:23

fortress. Ah do you collect anything. You.

47:26

Can. You

47:28

know why I to like coffee. Mugs.

47:30

There we go. We connected us.

47:34

Like business records were on our place consume

47:36

you learn and I get a coffee. My

47:38

like that every new airport a dollar to

47:40

and I have I get very big collection

47:42

but the man. Okay, now I'm

47:45

What's the wallpaper on your phone?

47:48

Oh, it's my cat sell

47:50

at yeah it's lucy. Make

47:52

her. With. Now I'm actually have

47:55

two phones when like more for work

47:57

and one's personal and I have my

47:59

other. Or my other phone stood at

48:01

they don't get. Upset. They

48:05

both have screen prefers. Not

48:08

going to follow up on that and

48:10

luckily I can smell that their last

48:12

after you are mistaken for. Oh

48:15

on. I.

48:18

Haven't been mistaken for anybody in a

48:20

while. But. I used to

48:22

get a lot of mixed up to

48:24

Elizabeth Olsen and that still happens. I

48:26

think it's purely just because or names

48:28

are the same. There's

48:31

people keep his any other reason but

48:33

I would like get a text from

48:35

like an A D that was for

48:37

Elizabeth Olsen. I don't know. It's

48:39

the other Lizzie so. That's like

48:41

even it inside the industry I get

48:43

reagan for for oil is with also

48:45

to I've never never match Leblanc uses.

48:48

Your mother? What What? what? Human being and great

48:50

again are one of the worst noted director ever

48:52

given you. I

48:57

think like just. By.

49:00

Which is bad. Like just that I

49:02

don't mind, like like it's fine if

49:04

there's no no and is just grateful

49:06

that I don't need to have a

49:08

note every time you with with just

49:10

the kind of like. The.

49:13

Look of were not sure like what to

49:15

do. That is. Terrifying

49:17

to just make something up. just say

49:19

it's just like if not working like

49:21

give me something else like no no

49:23

Luckily. Big. I don't mind if

49:25

you're like let's figure it out like it's just

49:27

you know but if the if it's not working.

49:29

The scene and most just kind of

49:32

silence coming from or even just. Not

49:34

getting up at a or. Cheer. Like.

49:37

That to me is inexcusable. Like.

49:40

When. Passing a note through in a d

49:42

unless it's just like pick up a coffee cup

49:44

faster but likes not getting a patio chair and

49:46

of meeting the monitor and going in talking to

49:48

you. That's me as like. I.

49:51

Will get a little pussy when that happened. Yeah,

49:53

I can. Yeah, I mean obviously I've had different kinds

49:55

of experiences shooting stuff, but I do. Hundred I know

49:57

is that we told him a were you like it.

50:00

They wanted to the direction coming from way

50:02

back there, like, is there anything coming from

50:04

like, "like what what you're looking?" Any

50:07

trouble? So down? Like anything? Yes to that.

50:09

I think it's like that that that kind

50:12

of silence that I don't like. Let's

50:14

just say it's not working if it's not

50:16

working, but I don't know. They don't have

50:18

to stick. Say. Something.

50:21

Like. That

50:23

all that about wraps up or thirty

50:25

stores visits again. Today was he is

50:27

Tom flew by as it always does.

50:30

Ah congratulations on the veil or I'll

50:32

be checking out the six deficit he

50:34

promised me. You're sending it to me

50:36

soon. I can't wait six months to

50:38

see the the finale. Ah promised. Still

50:40

have it by the end of the week, I promise. You

50:43

are so good of folks honest

50:45

with Also check this out it's

50:47

of fantastic. Watch it moves it's

50:49

cool it's fun. It's stylus see

50:51

kills it everybody's remember arm it's

50:53

on effects on Hulu Armed Congratulations

50:56

on a congratulations on everything and

50:58

personal life I'm so happy for

51:00

you think we're Arm onwards and

51:02

upwards the taking down Claire Foy

51:04

best of well as a troll.

51:06

That's what really matters and. I

51:09

hope at Caesars doesn't know that it's my

51:11

third. I'm coming for. Now seen us

51:13

to get somewhere. She plays the casinos

51:15

season of the Girl On Her Tail.

51:18

Yes! I feel that shit on the

51:20

he's dead. Smith His Arms

51:22

Pesos Buddy I play. Thank

51:25

you so much That always a pleasure. And

51:29

so ends and other additional Hussey

51:31

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51:33

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