0:01

A skill is not a static concept. IBM

0:03

reported that technical skills have a shelf life

0:05

of about two and a half years. Four

0:08

out of five CEOs say that the number one

0:10

inhibitor or one of the top few inhibitors to

0:12

their growth is finding people with the skills they

0:14

need. Jobs are going to become

0:16

richer. About 80% of jobs

0:18

in the U.S. and similar in other countries

0:20

that pay well say they require a college

0:22

degree. But in our country, actually

0:25

only about a third of Americans earn a

0:27

college degree. I think this

0:29

technology will impact

0:31

almost every single job out there in

0:33

some way. Having a

0:35

college degree is life-changing, but it

0:38

cannot be the only way to change your life.

0:41

Technology understanding is becoming relevant for everyone in the

0:44

company. This trend is only going

0:46

to continue. The number of searches

0:48

for how to become a data analyst was

0:50

the number one search of any how to

0:53

become in the world last year. Consider

0:56

this. A staggering 60%

0:59

of jobs that exist today were

1:01

non-existent in 1940. And

1:04

with the relentless progress of software eating the

1:06

world, jobs have undergone

1:08

a profound metamorphosis. Plus,

1:11

with AI taking center stage in

1:13

2022, people are hard-pressed

1:15

to identify industries that will not

1:17

be impacted. But

1:19

this is also not very new. Jobs

1:22

have been evolving since the dawn of time. If

1:25

you look at farming, around 1800 you had

1:27

90% of the population working in

1:29

farming. Around 1950, the time

1:31

that you just cited, I think it was down to

1:33

about 20%. And today we're seeing about 1,

1:35

1.5%. So

1:38

as we enter 2024, what

1:40

lies ahead in the future of work? What

1:43

skills will fall to the wayside alongside

1:45

their long line of ancestors? And

1:47

what skills will prove indispensable for success?

1:51

Today we're joined by Kai Romelt and

1:53

Lisa Gabelber. To talk through these fundamental

1:55

shifts and how they might impact everything

1:57

from hiring to degree acquisition to global

1:59

development. is a station. Kai

2:01

is the CEO of Udacity, which

2:04

provides online programs that cover everything

2:06

from deep learning to autonomous systems

2:08

to cloud computing, but also

2:10

topics that you may not have

2:12

heard of, things like sensor fusion,

2:14

self-healing architectures, or data governance. Lisa,

2:17

on the other hand, hails from Google, where

2:19

she built their program, Grow with Google, that

2:22

deploys career certificates. Grow

2:24

with Google has graduated over half

2:26

a million people from their courses

2:28

that include programs around cybersecurity, data

2:30

analytics, UX design, and more. So

2:33

in a world where technology is

2:36

moving at an unprecedented pace, what

2:38

will the top of the future look like, and

2:40

how might we prepare for them? Let's

2:43

find out. As

2:46

a reminder, the content here is for informational

2:48

purposes only, should not be taken as legal,

2:50

business, tax, or investment advice, or

2:52

be used to evaluate any investment or security,

2:54

and is not directed at any investors or

2:57

potential investors in any A6Z fund. Please

2:59

note that A16Z and its affiliates may

3:01

also maintain investments in the company's discuss

3:04

in this future. For more

3:06

details, including a link to our

3:08

investment, please see a16z.com/ disclosures.

3:15

Why don't we start with a statistic? I'd

3:18

love to just get your raw reaction to

3:20

this. But a recent report

3:22

from economist David Otor shows

3:24

that actually 60% of workers in 2018 have

3:28

jobs that actually did not exist in

3:31

1940. So over the

3:33

last 80 years, most of the

3:35

jobs that we have today, and even more

3:37

so the job growth in that period, came

3:39

from completely new jobs. What's your

3:41

take on that? I think it's absolutely

3:44

amazing. Personally, I think it's amazing, and I'm really

3:46

grateful to live in such exciting times. It's

3:48

also not surprising, because if you look at

3:51

the history in the longer run, we've

3:53

always seen those kind of changes, and those

3:56

kind of changes fueling then the

3:58

societal changes. If you look at five years, around 1800,

4:00

you had 90% of the population working in farming. Around

4:05

1950, the time that you just cited, I think it

4:07

was down to about 20%. And today, we're

4:09

seeing about 1%, 1.5%. So

4:13

this change is really what allowed

4:16

us to take the human capacity

4:18

and then apply it to new problems. And

4:21

a lot of the things that we see

4:23

around us today, even kind of our jobs

4:25

that we're doing here, recording podcasts, things like

4:27

that, those wouldn't have been possible if everyone

4:29

would still work in farming, right? I

4:32

think AI as such will absolutely

4:35

accelerate this once more.

4:38

And we will see the same effect. We'll probably

4:40

see it at an even higher pace than what

4:42

we've seen historically. As I

4:44

said, I'm excited about it. I do hope

4:46

that that excess capacity, that

4:48

capacity that's being created, will

4:51

be used and applied to

4:54

address some of the big challenges that we

4:56

have in our society today, like climate change,

4:58

like mental health epidemic. But

5:00

I think that if we didn't have changes in

5:02

the job market, we wouldn't be able to address

5:05

new challenges and new problems. Yeah,

5:07

I think you mentioned the term pace. Things

5:09

are moving so quickly. And we

5:11

have seen this phenomena where jobs,

5:13

occupations, the world has changed over

5:15

time. But maybe the

5:17

dilemma or the juncture that we're at

5:19

that people are calling out is the

5:22

idea that maybe things are moving so

5:24

quickly that certain jobs are being wiped

5:26

out more quickly than new jobs are

5:28

being created. What's

5:30

your take there? And specifically, how quickly certain

5:32

skill sets are going in vogue and then

5:34

out of vogue? Or are there skill sets

5:36

that still exist today that can

5:38

hold with time? Recently,

5:40

IBM reported that technical skills have a shelf

5:42

life of about two and a half years.

5:45

But I think that the way we

5:48

need to look at these things are that

5:50

a skill is not a static concept.

5:53

But you acquire a technological skill

5:56

today, or whether you've acquired that skill five years

5:58

ago, is going to be a very difficult process. to

6:00

be fundamentally different because the tools have

6:02

changed, the capabilities in the market have

6:04

changed, the whole environment has changed. Think

6:07

about digital marketing. Strategies that worked five

6:09

years ago might not even

6:11

be applicable anymore, not doable anymore

6:13

today. I can confirm that.

6:16

I think that the way we have to look at

6:18

it is we have to look at acquiring skills and

6:21

about staying current

6:23

in those skills. I think it's becoming

6:26

more flexible. We need to be more flexible

6:28

because as I said, it's not static. How

6:31

do you think about what kind of

6:33

education has been required or how to

6:35

design an educational platform given that pace

6:38

of change, given the fact that maybe

6:40

we are in a new environment that

6:42

is very different to let's say 40

6:45

years ago where someone could acquire a

6:47

skill set and remain in that occupation

6:50

for decades on end? I

6:52

think what it means for us is

6:54

that we have to provide

6:56

the content that we have in a more flexible

6:59

way. The

7:01

traditional model of universities is learning all the

7:03

education happens at the beginning of the career

7:05

and then it has to last over the

7:07

span of a whole career. With

7:10

the Downer degree that was invented

7:12

at Udacity, you have a shorter

7:14

form that focuses on a set

7:16

of skills that make

7:18

you employable. What we

7:20

are going from there now is

7:22

that we're making shorter form content

7:24

that can be combined in different

7:26

ways that allow people to train

7:28

themselves up and prepare themselves for

7:31

maybe something like a Downer degree but also afterwards

7:33

to say, okay, how do I stay current in

7:35

the skills? On that note,

7:37

how do you think about what is worth

7:39

creating that will stand the test of time

7:42

or are you just on a completely new

7:44

iteration cycle where every six months you're having

7:46

to come up with new material? Because

7:48

if you think about the alternative, let's

7:50

say university, they'll spend years developing a

7:52

curriculum to the point where in certain

7:55

fields it may no longer be relevant

7:57

or it at least won't be at

7:59

the cusp. innovation there. I

8:01

think you're making really

8:04

about having a high content velocity.

8:06

So first of all, one of

8:09

the things that we've done is

8:11

rather than thinking about something

8:14

like a 90-degree as like one

8:16

static concept that lives from beginning

8:18

to end, we're building it

8:20

in a different way now that we've disaggregated

8:22

and we take it down to

8:25

a lesson level and then these lessons combined make

8:27

up the degree. The difference is

8:29

that traditionally what you would do is you

8:31

would have lesson one and then you would

8:33

have lesson two that builds on lesson one

8:35

and lesson three that builds on lesson two

8:37

and lesson four that builds on lesson three.

8:40

The way we build the content now is

8:43

that every lesson stands for itself, which

8:46

means we can recombine these lessons in any

8:48

way necessary, but what we can also do

8:51

if we realize that there is a lesson

8:53

that's not relevant anymore, we can just

8:55

pull it and we can replace

8:57

it with a different lesson. So it's really

8:59

about flexibility in how you can reconfigure your

9:01

content all the time and

9:03

a high content velocity that you create

9:05

the amount of content when

9:08

it's needed and move it in and out as

9:10

it's relevant. As new trends

9:12

show up and speaking of trends, I

9:14

mean I think certain courses, if someone

9:16

were to go to Udacity's homepage, they'd

9:18

see a lot of things that they

9:20

would expect, especially with the AI Wave.

9:22

You've got things like deep reinforcement learning,

9:24

AWS machine learning. Those were no

9:27

surprise to me, but you also

9:29

had some courses that I was a

9:31

little surprised to see. You've got sensor

9:33

fusion, data governance, identity access management, self-healing

9:35

architectures, and maybe I'm just out of

9:38

the loop, but tell me a little

9:40

bit more about how you identify

9:42

whether a skill set is worth adding to

9:44

the platform, what data sets are you looking

9:46

at, and also are you seeing any discrepancy

9:48

in supply and demand because there are these

9:51

trendy titles that a lot of people are

9:53

jumping towards, but it does feel like there

9:55

are maybe some of these more underground trends

9:57

that aren't on people's radars. Yeah.

10:00

We have about 140 Fortune 2000 companies that we work

10:02

with. Plus,

10:05

we have a large amount of individuals and

10:07

we take a lot of cues from our

10:09

customers, from our partners. We also see, based

10:12

on job boards and analysis that

10:14

we do, we see kind of what are the

10:16

skills that are trending that are needed and then

10:19

we build courses to address those. In

10:21

terms of mismatch, what we see a lot

10:23

in the market, for example, let's take the

10:26

topic of generative AI. We're

10:28

seeing a lot of content being out there

10:30

that's descriptive, but what companies are really looking

10:32

for is the

10:34

practical application of it. So

10:37

I think that it's really

10:39

about answering those questions on

10:41

how can I and my company practice it,

10:44

how can I have the practical element of

10:46

it. What you're pointing at to a

10:48

degree is it sounds like it's not just training

10:50

new folks on being the machine

10:52

learning engineers that develop the models,

10:54

but also since this is such

10:57

a broadly sweeping technology

10:59

that basically anyone in an

11:01

organization can benefit from understanding

11:04

how to incorporate AI

11:06

into their jobs. Am I understanding

11:08

that correctly? It's interesting

11:10

because you're absolutely right. Historically, in

11:13

technology, you see people looking for very

11:15

deep skills. Today, what

11:17

we see is that we have

11:20

very high demand from a

11:22

broader base of the company. So where it's

11:25

really about, I would say,

11:27

technology skills and technology understanding is becoming

11:29

relevant for everyone in the company. We

11:32

now have two different types of content. We

11:34

have the deep learning content and we

11:37

also have content that allows managers and

11:39

people in the company to become fluent

11:41

with the technology without having to go

11:44

super deep into the technical skills. Because

11:46

maybe they have technical teams or what we

11:48

also see is that we

11:50

have today a lot of tools where technical

11:52

requirements are just not

11:55

needed anymore for the users because you

11:57

have low-code environments, no-code environments. So

12:00

yeah, we're seeing that the barrier for more

12:02

advanced technical skills that are coming down, just

12:05

as an example, today you don't need

12:07

necessarily explicit design experience anymore to work

12:10

with tools like Darlief or Mid-Journey because

12:12

these tools can do a lot of

12:14

that hard work for you. But

12:16

what's really important is that you are

12:19

able to use them and have enough

12:21

knowledge to know how you can apply

12:23

these tools in your context. Yeah,

12:25

there's something counterintuitive there, which is I

12:28

think as these technologies advance, the natural

12:30

reaction is for people to say, oh,

12:32

all the foundational stuff we no longer

12:34

need because it's being abstracted. But

12:37

to an extent, what you're getting at

12:39

is actually it's really useful to understand

12:41

basic code. It's really useful to understand

12:43

basic design principles and it's really useful

12:45

en masse, right? It's useful for all

12:48

of us as we will get more

12:50

exposure to technology via AI

12:52

to have that foundational layer. And when we

12:55

talked originally, it sounded like you're actually seeing

12:57

that in your data, right? We're actually surprisingly

12:59

enough, the foundational stuff is what is trending

13:01

or a lot of people are reaching for.

13:04

You're absolutely right. We've seen in the last year about a

13:06

33% increase in AI related courses. And

13:12

we had exactly the same increase

13:14

in foundational courses related to

13:16

AI. So something like Python programming. So we

13:19

can see that from the learners that we

13:21

work with. They want to do the AI

13:23

application courses, but they also want to make

13:25

sure they understand the basics and the foundations.

13:28

Are there any other jobs that you're

13:30

seeing sprout up with time that you

13:32

just think are really fascinating and could

13:35

be the equivalent of like the social

13:37

media manager, the UX designer, the product

13:39

manager that were

13:41

kind of like the last generation. They're still

13:43

extremely relevant. But if you think about it,

13:45

in the early 2000s, those

13:48

jobs didn't exist, right? As we talked

13:50

about at the outset, and also they're

13:52

the kind of jobs that we probably

13:54

just truly could not have

13:56

predicted, right? They've manifested in ways that

13:58

seems so obvious today. But

14:00

back then, someone would be like, wait,

14:03

there's someone who studies how people engage

14:05

on a screen. Yes, I think

14:07

there's a lot of the obvious jobs that

14:09

are going to come. I'm sure we'll see

14:11

chief AI officers, we'll see lots of AI

14:13

product managers that will manage tools. But

14:16

I do think that this is what makes this

14:18

technology different from a lot of other technologies that

14:20

we've seen before, is that I

14:22

think this technology will impact almost

14:24

every single job out there in

14:26

some way. I think very

14:28

often the effect that we're going to see

14:31

is that for certain roles, we

14:33

will need less people to do

14:35

the same job. That's from

14:37

engineers where you have GitHub co-pilot, where

14:40

to designers or copywriters that are going

14:42

to use some of the tools. But

14:45

it means that the jobs themselves are

14:47

going to change. So I

14:49

think people will much more focus

14:52

on quality checking and doing more

14:54

meaningful tasks. They will

14:56

be augmented by AI and then

14:59

people will function as data stewards.

15:02

They'll look at the efficacy of AI and

15:04

they will make sure that the

15:06

quality level of the results is where

15:08

it needs to be. So it's a

15:10

little bit if you want to compare it

15:12

to an individual building a car to

15:14

a manufacturing line where now one

15:17

person just oversees a much bigger

15:19

process rather than doing every step

15:21

of the way themselves. It's

15:24

going to become a very key tool. Yeah,

15:26

absolutely. Our founders, Mark

15:28

and Ben, recorded an episode about Hollywood

15:30

and they have this section where they're

15:33

talking about within the entertainment industry, you

15:35

have producers, you have actors, you have

15:37

screenwriters, you have all of these people

15:39

who participate in the production of something.

15:42

And they were talking about how actually, yeah, you

15:44

could have any one of those jobs then

15:47

work with their team of AIs

15:49

to basically have their own production

15:52

agency, right? Where basically they're able to

15:54

do all of those roles through the

15:56

help or augmentation of AI. So

15:59

It's exciting to imagine that. Your point? Every.

16:01

Job is going to be impacted by the

16:03

as are most jobs, but that actually in

16:05

many ways makes each shot more dynamic, right?

16:08

instead of it being in a silo, a

16:10

designer, developer and a product manager can all

16:12

in some way fuse into one. India occur

16:14

right and there. Any hacker can do so

16:16

much more on their own. And

16:19

if you think about it we just talked

16:21

about like a com and you factor in

16:23

process. it is a lot more interesting as

16:25

a job If I can oversee a machine

16:27

that makes a whole car rather than just

16:29

having to. Be. Somewhere where just

16:32

have to do one screw yes the

16:34

same school every day. So jobs are

16:36

going to become richer. They going to

16:38

become faster paced so I think intensity

16:40

and it's always been is going to

16:43

increase. Pacers gonna increase. But the jobs

16:45

are going to be more meaningful and

16:47

richer than what we have. Today. And

16:50

the exciting part if we use the car

16:52

analogy and extend that is when someone can

16:54

not only ever see a whole process of

16:56

creating a car that all the sun, we

16:58

have a self driving car or a flying

17:00

car snail that Sansa thesis an accent. But

17:02

it's like how can we use a I

17:04

not just to build what we currently can

17:06

in a different ways, but also to build

17:08

fundamentally new things which I think will com

17:10

right the same way. That's the reason that

17:12

you X designers or app developers exist is

17:15

because now we have apps those did not

17:17

exist in the past. Let's. Talk

17:19

about other trends like regional access.

17:21

I think that's something also as

17:24

intersecting this ai ways where you

17:26

have not just people. In

17:29

North America participating in these new technologies?

17:31

Yes people truly all over the globe

17:33

and I think this is something that

17:35

you seen also with Udacity some eighties

17:37

it's speak to that level of access

17:40

and the integration of people from all

17:42

over the world. Participating. For

17:44

so I'm in, Technology is pretty amazing.

17:46

I were historically your had to. Be.

17:49

In a specific location to do a job.

17:51

And now there's a lot of jobs that

17:53

you're able to do from from anywhere in

17:55

the world. And one of the problems that

17:58

repetitive proud of his will work. With

18:00

the Egyptian government. Egypt

18:02

has a for currency crisis so they came

18:05

to us and we're looking for us for

18:07

ways of how they can solve this. And

18:10

we designed a program where

18:12

them where we ah training

18:15

people in Egypt in technical

18:17

skills. With. The goal for

18:19

them to become freelancers in the end or

18:21

some of them a portion of that to

18:23

the generally want to create a more tech

18:26

savvy population. To. See give you an

18:28

order of magnitude with store has been running for two

18:30

years. Retrain of about one hundred fifty thousand people in

18:32

Egypt now. And then a portion of

18:34

those people went into freelancing. So we also

18:36

trained them into how to acts of the

18:38

freelancing market. From. Their a portion

18:41

is working for global companies that's now

18:43

bringing annualized about two hundred million dollars

18:45

off foreign currency back into each other

18:47

through that program. Just a that program

18:49

suit number one. It's interesting because again,

18:51

jobs become globalized and a whole different

18:54

way. Where it's not about you don't

18:56

have to take a whole factory and

18:58

move it from one country to another

19:00

one. But like job Market's now open

19:02

up in a way we are people

19:04

from the whole world have access to.

19:07

it's if you think about it now,

19:09

you have a. Single.

19:11

Mother in rural

19:13

Egypt's. That. Has access

19:15

to tactics, That. She can

19:17

work and so if you think about

19:20

what that means not only for her,

19:22

but what that means for. Her

19:24

children. What? That means for the

19:26

community around her because obviously this money

19:28

coming in that she can now take

19:31

and spend in the local community where

19:33

she lives the fabric of society that

19:35

with got where you have people that's.

19:38

Historically. Have been song and

19:40

could dominate. That's because they have

19:43

access to jobs. Now. That's

19:45

different. So the level of confidence that you

19:47

give people and the liberties that come with

19:49

that that's amazing and is a said

19:51

to we're very proud to do that. Egypt

19:54

is one example. We do similar things in

19:56

a number of other countries with very proud

19:58

to have trained them. First female self

20:01

driving car engineer in Saudi Arabia. Amazing

20:03

and it levels the playing field in

20:05

incredible way and that to from a

20:07

geographical perspective from a gender perspective but

20:10

also people but physically might not be

20:12

able to drive to a job but

20:14

not can do with friends. Really any

20:16

laughs from today and era. How.

20:20

Said. Companies be thinking about that. Because

20:22

something that comes to mind as

20:24

you're describing all of these people

20:26

becoming educated and skilled in ways

20:28

that they hadn't been before. The

20:30

systems to which people are hired

20:33

seem a little outdated. If.

20:35

I'm just thinking through a like how

20:37

we look at resumes. What?

20:39

Signals we look for whether it's a specific

20:41

kind of degree. Or. As

20:44

they went to a specific kind

20:46

of school but also I'm thinking

20:48

through an interview process. Of

20:50

someone's been trained in that way, right to

20:52

be able to command that confidence that you

20:54

just described So. Tell me a

20:57

little bit more about what you're

20:59

hearing from companies: Are companies rethinking

21:01

how they're hiring people are what

21:03

signals they're looking for as they

21:05

now have an increasingly global talent

21:07

pool. And I think this is something

21:09

where we only standing at the beginning of it. And

21:11

if you look at the numbers of freelancing

21:13

geeks, a Touch with it's vastly increasing. so

21:15

companies are really know the process of learning

21:17

of how to deal with it and how

21:20

to use it and how to leverage it.

21:22

But at the end of the day it

21:24

all comes down to. Practical. Application

21:26

and what's important She is

21:29

that a company is able.

21:32

To. Understand what is the set

21:34

of skills and capabilities that they've got.

21:37

And what is the set of skills and

21:39

capabilities that they need in order to get

21:41

the a strategic priorities? The

21:44

best companies have understood. That.

21:46

Learning. Is. Not a benefit for the.

21:50

And learning is not a kind of nice to

21:52

have. But. It's really about.

21:54

Upskilling programs that have a tangible

21:57

impact on the business. So how

21:59

do I. Nick. A

22:01

my strategic agenda to the skills that I need.

22:04

And be How do I make it

22:07

relevant for employees, how to measure the

22:09

skills and capabilities of people house And

22:11

how do I turn that into a

22:14

currency inside the company? The big question

22:16

around upskilling is it's all about the

22:18

why. Because. If you have

22:20

an online learning platform, the learners

22:22

ultimately sitting there saying like. I'm

22:25

going to log into this platform now. Or.

22:27

Am I going to log into Netflix were

22:29

mans play use on her with my kids?

22:31

I we gonna a you gaps The question

22:33

that you really have to answer is. Why

22:36

should learn? as. Be.

22:38

On the platform spend their time than

22:41

than the skills and that's where companies

22:43

can come in by really turning skills

22:45

and capabilities into a currency where you

22:47

see and job descriptions with exactly highlights

22:49

what skills capabilities qualify you for a

22:52

job, how you can so that you

22:54

have gained them and can do them

22:56

and then you get that connective tissue.

23:00

Or I won't turn back the guy

23:02

accurately. So adding. Suffer Saxon on

23:04

much seen in the marketplace.

23:06

The jobs including Ai is

23:08

packing that landscape that first.

23:10

Her take on the difference in people

23:12

with traditional degrees in a job that

23:14

requires. About

23:17

eighty percent. Of Jobs and the U S

23:19

and similar in other countries. That pay well

23:21

say they require a college degree.

23:23

That in our country, actually, only

23:25

about a third of Americans earn

23:27

a college degree, So that leaves.

23:29

Two thirds of our country basically

23:31

locked out of every good. Paying

23:34

job and so he said. Well this

23:36

is a big important problem that needs

23:38

to be solved And for sir, Having

23:41

a college degree is life changing.

23:44

But. It cannot be the only way to change

23:46

your life. And so we set out to

23:48

solve this problem is how could you. Help

23:51

more people get access to great

23:53

jobs by training and certifying their

23:55

abilities to do those jobs. Tier.

23:58

point it does feel like there are couple things

24:00

that if you put them on a

24:02

resume, they just greatly enhance your ability

24:04

to get to the first interview. And

24:06

so are you seeing that reception where

24:09

things are changing both on the talent side

24:11

in terms of taking this chance and in

24:13

pursuing this instead of a full-time degree

24:16

or also on the company side, being

24:18

receptive to hiring these folks? Our

24:21

goal is economic mobility and economic

24:23

stability for people. And

24:25

the only way you can achieve that

24:27

isn't by training people. It's by helping

24:30

them get a better job and a

24:32

better career. And the only way to do that is

24:34

to get employer buy-in. So even

24:36

from the very beginning, we were

24:38

very deliberate about involving employers. So

24:40

we looked at what are really

24:43

in demand career fields that

24:45

are projected to keep growing, where

24:47

Google has unique expertise, and

24:50

where we knew we could teach people

24:52

in a relatively short period of time

24:54

how to be hand proficient for entry-level

24:56

jobs, and where we could do

24:58

that completely online. Because we really wanted to meet

25:00

people where they are, which is

25:03

working Americans don't

25:05

control their schedules. About a quarter of Americans

25:07

don't even know their schedule for the following

25:09

week. And so they need it to be online

25:11

on demand. So we vet

25:14

the curriculum with top employers. And actually,

25:16

what we found, which was really fun and

25:18

exciting for us, is that they were willing

25:20

to contribute content. So a great example

25:23

is we have a data analytics certificate.

25:26

And Deloitte, who hires tons of data

25:28

analysts, gave us the assessments that

25:30

they used to test for mastery of SQL

25:32

and R. And they let us build it

25:34

right into the certificate. And then we became

25:36

a preferred hiring credential at Deloitte, because they

25:38

knew what we were teaching, was exactly

25:41

what they were hiring for, and that we were testing for mastery

25:43

in the same way that they would. Exactly. And

25:45

I feel like these companies, it makes total

25:47

sense, because they would end up doing that

25:49

training anyway. And so the incentive is there

25:51

for them to say, hey, yeah, actually, help

25:53

us train these folks. And we trust that

25:55

if you're using our material, then

25:57

we're going to get the folks that we need. Let's

26:00

talk about some of those trends. I like that you

26:02

really narrowed down. It has to be online. It has

26:04

to be done in a specific period of time. And

26:06

actually, just real quick, how quick are

26:08

we talking? It's all self-paced. Usually, you

26:10

have from 100 to 150 hours of content. So

26:14

most people finish in somewhere between three and

26:17

six months. Great. And so what

26:19

jobs have you incorporated into the program

26:21

that kind of fit that bucket

26:23

that you said is important today, but

26:25

also is going to be just as,

26:27

if not more important, looking ahead?

26:30

Yeah. Well, research shows that demand

26:32

for data analytics skills is growing

26:35

15 times faster than the average

26:37

demand for other skills. And

26:40

we see it on the other side

26:42

from people looking for new careers. The

26:45

number of searches for how to become a data

26:47

analyst was the number one search

26:49

of any how to become in the world that

26:51

we last year. Yeah. Love that. So all

26:53

things. And apparently, a lot of people want

26:55

to become data analysts. And we can see

26:58

the demand from the employer side as well.

27:00

So data analytics is one example. Another

27:02

good example, just a few months

27:04

ago, we launched our cybersecurity certificate.

27:07

And we all know, unfortunately, that cyber attacks keep happening.

27:10

As a matter of fact, they grew 38% last year.

27:14

So there's this giant gap between the

27:16

number of cybersecurity jobs and the number

27:18

of people who are already trained to

27:21

do them. In the US, I think the number is 650,000 open jobs

27:25

in cybersecurity. That does not surprise me

27:27

one bit. I saw this research. It was

27:29

like a year ago. And there's so many

27:31

aspects of cybersecurity. And one of them is

27:33

insurance. And all of these insurance

27:35

companies are losing money, quite frankly, because, well,

27:38

one, it's a relatively new field. So they're

27:40

trying to, I guess, still do

27:42

the calculus and underwriting. But at the

27:44

same time, it seems like, yeah, there

27:47

aren't enough professionals. Also embedded within companies

27:49

to figure out their cybersecurity posture.

27:51

And so, yeah, it seems like just

27:54

super open field for people to

27:56

come in and learn this new skill. Yeah,

27:58

and it's also. In addition

28:00

to being a high growth job field, it pays

28:02

really well. I think the number in the world,

28:04

they're expecting to have a gap of about three

28:07

and a half million open jobs. So

28:09

plenty of opportunity for everyone. Yeah, it

28:11

feels like pretty much any business that

28:15

is somewhat digital, which is basically becoming

28:17

every business, has that kind of surface

28:19

area for risk in this space. And

28:21

so it doesn't surprise me that there's

28:23

going to be millions of jobs missing

28:26

here. Maybe one thing related

28:28

to that is this question that I feel like

28:30

a lot of operators within companies face, which is

28:32

just, as we see these

28:34

gaps, should we skill people within our

28:36

company? Should we take people who are

28:38

missing those skills that we know are

28:40

all stars and transition them? Or

28:43

should we net new, hire people in? How

28:46

do you think maybe people should be thinking about that

28:48

within their companies, whether they should be upskilling

28:51

or borrowing or, I guess, newly

28:53

buying talent? I mean, in

28:55

fields like cybersecurity, there's so much demand.

28:58

There's just great opportunity for employers to do

29:00

both. And we see people doing both with

29:03

our career certificates. Even in the past two

29:05

years, we've graduated over a half million people

29:08

into these fields. And

29:10

it's a range. Even at Google, there's thousands

29:12

of people upskilling themselves using the Google career certificates

29:14

who just want to get into a different field.

29:16

Maybe they want to become a UX designer or

29:19

they want to become a program manager. I

29:21

think we're going to see a lot more of that. I'm

29:24

curious to get your pulse on the college degree

29:26

concept as a whole and whether

29:28

that is outdated, this idea of spending

29:31

four years becoming proficient

29:33

at one thing when we are

29:35

talking about this idea that technology

29:37

is moving so quickly. And

29:39

I can say in my job, which, you

29:42

know, schedule an episode, we'll record

29:44

something. And then in some cases,

29:46

if we wait too long, if

29:49

we sit on our feet two months later, I'm like,

29:51

can I publish this because things are moving so quickly? So

29:53

then I position that with four years. And I'm like, I don't

29:56

know. What do you think about that? I

29:59

think the days of. of learning everything you need to know

30:01

for your career in a four-year

30:03

period are so far behind us. It's

30:06

true for all of us, right? And

30:08

that doesn't make the college degree any

30:10

less valuable. But I also think that

30:12

colleges and universities are realizing that they're

30:16

needing to do more even within those

30:18

four years to prepare people for the

30:20

workforce. A good example is the University

30:22

of Texas system. There's a few hundred

30:24

thousand students in the University of Texas

30:26

system. It's outstanding. And they

30:28

really realized that they wanted to use the

30:31

Google career certificates and offer it to all

30:33

of their students to help make them more

30:35

employable at higher wages. And if you look

30:37

at at Lycast data, which is one of

30:40

the best sources of workforce

30:42

and labor market data, it

30:44

actually says that if you compliment a

30:47

bachelor's degree, especially in liberal arts

30:49

or humanities with a high

30:51

quality industry recognized credential, you

30:53

will in fact become dramatically more

30:56

employable at higher wages. And

30:58

so it's really exciting to see what the UT system

31:00

is doing. And even within a very short period of

31:02

time, I think there's 2500 students at the UT system

31:04

doing the

31:06

Google career certificate program on top of their

31:09

degrees. That's amazing. Feels like

31:11

maybe the natural question is also,

31:13

is there ways that some of

31:15

these larger organizations, whether it be

31:17

the educators or it

31:19

could also be regulators like, should there

31:21

be something there in terms of how

31:23

local officials or folks can work with

31:26

companies to better understand this new dynamic

31:28

that we're in? Yeah, I

31:30

think one of the things that we're trying to

31:32

do is work with all parts of the ecosystem.

31:34

You and I started by talking about employers and

31:37

I think that PwC survey four out

31:39

of five CEOs say that the number one

31:41

inhibitor or one of the top few inhibitors

31:43

to their growth is finding people with the

31:45

skills they need. So there's the whole employer

31:47

side. And then there's educators.

31:49

We were just talking about colleges and universities.

31:52

But in fact, if two thirds of Americans

31:54

are never going to get a college

31:56

degree, we actually need to reach people

31:58

when they're younger. So we've

32:00

started working with public school systems. One

32:03

great example is in Anaheim, California.

32:06

They, I think, have about 800 high

32:08

school students doing the Google Career Certificate Program

32:10

as part of their high school curriculum. And we're

32:12

seeing that as a bigger and bigger trend. And

32:14

I think in different states, they're really trying to

32:16

figure out how do we improve

32:18

the livelihoods of our population, but also

32:21

how do we make sure that the employers

32:23

who either are already in our state or the ones we

32:25

want to attract know that we

32:27

have the talent here in our state that'll

32:29

meet their needs. So it really

32:31

is an ecosystem problem. One

32:34

other thing that you mentioned is that these are inherently

32:36

asynchronous, right? They live

32:38

online. These are courses. I'd love to

32:41

get your take on that facet of

32:43

education, because historically, education has been quite

32:45

synchronous. And now there's many different, as

32:47

you said, experiments happening of different companies

32:49

that are trying to put this education

32:52

online. I mean, I was actually talking

32:54

to someone yesterday, and he was talking

32:56

about how fascinating it

32:58

is that several years ago, many of the

33:00

universities like MIT put their courses online. And

33:03

everyone was like, wow, this is going to

33:05

completely change the game, because anyone with an

33:07

internet connection can now go get a degree

33:09

from MIT. They don't have the same student

33:12

experience, but the information is there.

33:14

And yet in some way, it feels like maybe that

33:16

hasn't met its expectation. But

33:19

maybe there's

33:21

a false understanding of what we're trying to

33:23

achieve there. I mean, I think COVID

33:26

really accelerated the acceptability of learning online.

33:29

And it's for sure not perfect, but it

33:31

actually has some advantages over other ways

33:33

of learning. So in our

33:35

program, we build behavioral science techniques right

33:37

into the teaching. So I

33:40

mentioned before, in order to earn the certificate, you actually

33:42

have to prove mastery. So you have to get an

33:44

80% or higher on all

33:46

the required assessments. But

33:49

most people actually don't pass a lot of the

33:51

assessments the first time they try. And

33:54

Because we're doing it online, we have

33:56

all these behavioral science techniques. We'll first

33:58

reassure you. Hey, Lisa. It even has

34:00

the same of that's okay because most people

34:03

don't pass this assessment on their first try

34:05

and then we can direct you directly back

34:07

to the content that's related to the things

34:09

that you messed Ride So it kind of

34:12

like I'm personal. Tutor if he well

34:14

in a eyes just can improve our

34:16

those things more and more. As

34:18

he needs never been more exciting. Actually, there's

34:21

more options than ever. To teach yourself something

34:23

you didn't know how to do the more options

34:25

than ever to get a. Credible.

34:27

Proof that you are capable of

34:29

these skills. So for job seekers

34:31

I sank in. The world is

34:33

more open and there's more opportunity

34:36

than ever. And for companies

34:38

to actually these skills gaps are not

34:40

going away. There are definitely more jobs

34:42

open than there are people skilled to

34:44

do them today, and I think that's

34:47

been a foursome openness on employers around

34:49

who they hire in a way that's

34:51

actually really good and I think education

34:53

is adapting. To I think educators

34:56

are looking for ways. To improve

34:58

the value to their students and their

35:00

becoming more open to additional options like

35:02

ours. I guess that is a surprise

35:04

like a view it as a as

35:07

years ago what I think higher edward

35:09

embrace career credentials even from an amazing

35:11

place like Google I would have said

35:13

i'm not so sure and not the

35:15

way academia. Worked in the past

35:17

month or experience. Is that people are

35:19

more open than ever and they're just trying

35:22

to do the right things for their students?

35:24

Yeah, and as and includes. Partnering with

35:26

other organizations are embracing additional

35:28

credentials. A lot of

35:30

them are really leaning into it and I think that's

35:32

really exciting and it's good for everyone. And

35:36

finally we returned to Chi to

35:38

discuss some people might think about

35:40

reestablishing. They're still in the increasing

35:42

see of options out there, something

35:44

that even time self. Is exploring.

35:48

is a learner also know thinking about

35:50

what am i going to do next i

35:52

think it's important oscar of the question why

35:55

why i'm a learning this what i

35:57

want to achieve and then that will help

36:00

form for you what the skills are

36:02

you need to acquire to get so. Yeah. And

36:04

to your point, I really wouldn't underrate, even

36:07

if folks have just like a side project

36:09

they've always wanted to build, it doesn't need

36:11

to be an occupation. Whatever is closest to

36:13

you actually taking action on that thing, even

36:15

if you think, oh, it's not as revolutionary,

36:17

it's not as new as some of the

36:19

technologies out there, but you really just want

36:21

to learn how to like code

36:23

a website using HTML, CSS, JavaScript,

36:25

even though that doesn't sound quote

36:27

innovative, if it's close to getting

36:29

you on a path, you'll

36:32

be surprised by how many different left turns,

36:34

right turns you'll find along that path versus

36:37

trying the most innovative thing,

36:39

which may seem not only daunting, but

36:41

also just like not relevant to your

36:43

life or your interests. Exactly

36:46

right. And if you look at most

36:48

of the jobs are not necessarily in

36:50

the bleeding edge topics, but most of the jobs

36:52

are driven at this point, even

36:55

data analytics, cloud engineering. So those are

36:57

still kind of some of the areas

36:59

where there's the most interest. Anything

37:03

you learn, it does

37:05

build a foundational understanding

37:07

and a savviness that will

37:09

help you in the future. People

37:12

tend to think about like,

37:14

what's going to get me the next job, and

37:16

that's okay. But I would also see

37:18

the benefit the

37:20

value in acquiring skills just because you find

37:22

them interesting. I learned to code several years

37:25

ago, and I never planned and still do

37:27

not plan to be a developer. But

37:30

the random instances where it's come into play,

37:32

or just allowed me to take

37:34

interest in other things has been so

37:36

underrated. It allows you to understand

37:38

things better and often things that you wouldn't

37:41

even been able to I mean, we see

37:43

this we've developed this we call discovery and

37:45

fluency content, which is really kind

37:47

of this entry level content that's

37:49

supposed to give you fluency

37:52

because again, everything is

37:54

becoming more interconnected. I was asked

37:56

recently by someone in terms

37:58

of our product focus. whether we're going

38:00

to branch out in different areas. And I said, like, what

38:03

area are we supposed to branch out? Technology

38:05

is going to be everywhere. Tell

38:07

me something that we should branch out

38:10

into that's not fueled ultimately by technology.

38:12

And this trend is only going to continue. Yeah.

38:15

I love that you use the term fluency

38:17

as well. The same way that written

38:19

spoken literacy was extremely important

38:21

for humans to interact and

38:24

participate effectively, I do think there is

38:26

an element, a parallel element, of tech

38:28

literacy, of understanding that space and being

38:30

able to communicate with it. Even if

38:32

you don't have a headline title on

38:34

your LinkedIn that says, I'm a machine

38:36

learning engineer, that baseline understanding is

38:39

only going to become more important.

38:41

What's really interesting is we see that,

38:43

and I mentioned our government clients earlier,

38:45

we have a lot of large government

38:48

clients where there is an

38:50

understanding that for a country, it's

38:53

essential to have a

38:55

tech-savvy population and to have a

38:58

population that speaks tech and that

39:00

understands tech. And that's

39:02

something for me that I'm

39:04

sometimes a bit worried about is in

39:07

Europe, do we have that mindset that

39:10

we're really pushing this enough that

39:12

our populations speak enough

39:14

tech to just have

39:16

access to where

39:18

the world is moving to? Absolutely.

39:21

I couldn't agree more. And I think it'll

39:23

be interesting to see that even as a

39:26

data point. I'm not sure exactly how you

39:28

codify that, but the same way that countries

39:30

were tracking literacy rates. How do

39:32

you track tech literacy? I think that's a great place to end

39:34

off. And thank you for helping

39:36

not just people in the United States or Europe

39:38

worldwide to get access to that, because I think

39:41

that's one of the most essential ingredients to

39:43

a better summer's life. Thank you very much.

39:48

All right. That is all for today's episode. Look,

39:51

I know this episode did take some twists and turns,

39:54

but I hope it shows just how much

39:56

opportunity there is to rethink every layer of

39:58

the stack, whether it's up-leveling your own. own

40:00

skills for rethinking our education or

40:02

betting system, or how

40:04

not just companies but entire countries

40:07

need to rethink competition. By

40:09

the way, if you know anyone already

40:12

working in some of these new roles,

40:14

think the next decade's equivalent of US

40:16

designers or social media managers of the

40:18

last decade, let us know. So

40:20

if you know a prompt engineer or a digital

40:22

fashion designer or any job that

40:25

most people have not heard of,

40:27

email us at packages at a16z.com

40:30

and let's kick some butts in 2020 here.