In Part two of this two-part story, Dr. Francis Collins, former head of the National Institutes of Health during COVID, and Travis Tripodi, a strong conservative critic of the US COVID response Dr. Collins helped shape, attempt the impossible —  sparring on everything from vaccine mandates to natural immunity freely, fully, and without losing it.  What does their collision achieve? And what does it leave hanging? April Lawson joins Mónica to break down this extraordinary conversation and figure out what it takes for the rest of us to tackle the hardest political disagreements we face… without getting burned.     

• Study: Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine (December 31, 2020) 

• Study: Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections (August 25, 2021)

• Rachel Maddow Vaccination Segment (April 9, 2021)

• Additional Background: Derate the Hate Interview with Dr. Francis Collins

• Additional Background: Derate the Hate Interview with Travis Tripodi

• NIH: Vaccine Q&A with Dr Francis Collins (May 7, 2021)
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