As the government scrabbles its policy together for Ukrainian refugees, the Labour peer and refugee campaigner Alf Dubs tells Anoosh Chakelian that the response has been a "disgrace".

He discusses how the government finds itself on the wrong side of public opinion, why Priti Patel is the worst Home Secretary he's worked with, and why he'd like to see a "more robust" approach to welcoming refugees from the Labour leadership.

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