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don't only want people to remember the ad,

1:01

would you want them to remember the brand

1:03

behind the I. am. I being there were

1:05

few? But everyone is talking about. The

1:07

I when no one is remembering the boy and.

1:12

Bud Light stayed very light be you

1:14

cafe bad ago they were so like

1:16

there was no lied. They were up

1:18

in the Arya. It's

1:21

about really understanding who your brand.

1:24

Is who your customers are, what you're going to do.

1:26

But I will say at the end

1:28

of the day they are hard costs

1:30

associated. Do this. So if you

1:32

spend their money, show me the

1:34

roaming. Show me the Roman. Show

1:37

me the rhetoric on marketing investment.

1:44

That's. Director Cedar Chief Marketing

1:46

officer at Autodesk formerly

1:48

it Palatine, Apple and

1:50

elsewhere. Today's. Episode: Dives

1:53

into this year's Superbowl ads. What

1:55

worked, what didn't and what the

1:57

millions of dollars spent on air.

2:00

and celebrities indicates about the year

2:02

ahead for anyone trying to make

2:04

a connection with customers. Dara

2:07

shares her take on everything from

2:09

Bud Light to Beyonce, plus

2:11

her three-part rubric for what makes

2:13

an ad a winner. There

2:15

are meaningful lessons for any business

2:18

along with plenty of fun. Let's

2:20

get to it. We'll

2:34

start the show in a moment afterward

2:36

from our premier brand partner, Capital One

2:38

Business. I

2:42

raised my hand to say like I want to do something which

2:44

is like dramatically different from what I've

2:46

done ever before. I think

2:48

a lot of people around me were very surprised

2:50

that I made that decision. That's

2:53

Aparna Sarin, Chief Marketing Officer for

2:55

Capital One Business. When we

2:57

heard from her last year, she was working

2:59

the product side, leading a team to create

3:01

a credit card with no preset spending limit.

3:03

But now she suddenly found herself running marketing.

3:06

Who am I to call myself a CMO? I

3:09

was skittish about people calling me Chief

3:11

Marketing Officer because I've

3:14

never done marketing before. I have been

3:16

a credit leader, I've launched products,

3:19

but I've never done marketing. That

3:21

actually adds even more to that

3:23

imposter in your head. Why

3:25

did Aparna make such a radical pivot in

3:27

her career and how would she handle the

3:30

steep learning curve? We'll find out later in

3:32

the show. It's all part of the Refocus

3:34

Playbook, a special series where Capital One Business

3:36

highlights stories of business owners and leaders using

3:38

one of Reed's theories of entrepreneurship. Today's Playbook

3:41

Insight, have a beginner's mindset. Hello.

3:48

Hey Dara. How are you doing? It's

3:50

great to see you. I'm

3:54

ready to play this game. Let's go. I

3:57

watched the entire Super Bowl. I have to tell you

3:59

this. probably the first time I

4:01

actually watched the whole thing. It was exhausting.

4:03

It was exhausting, right? It was exhausting. And

4:05

I'm a 49ers fan, so I was quite

4:07

devastated at the end when we lost in

4:09

the last 10 seconds of overtime. But Taylor

4:12

Swift's boyfriend is happy, so I guess, it's just

4:14

a reminder that it's Taylor's world and we're all

4:16

just living in it. So I just wanna let

4:18

the audience know. So I'm talking to Dara Triseder,

4:21

who's the chief marketing officer at Autodesk. And

4:24

we're talking about the Super Bowl, but

4:26

what we really wanna talk about is

4:29

the game that went on the competition

4:31

between advertisers and marketers, right? Dara, you,

4:33

I'm told, were offered

4:35

an opportunity to spend $7 million

4:38

for 30 seconds and you declined.

4:40

So now afterwards,

4:43

regret, relief, like

4:46

after seeing what everybody else did? I

4:48

think we made the right decision for

4:51

us. I would say, I think the

4:53

Super Bowl is a winner take all

4:55

situation. So I think you only go

4:57

to play when you are going

4:59

to win. This is not a participation

5:01

trophy exercise, okay? And if you're

5:03

not one of the winners and no one's

5:05

talking about you and you just made absolutely

5:07

no effect, it's really hard to make a

5:09

business case for the ROI on that. And

5:11

my team know me, I'm very corny with

5:14

the saying, show me the Romy, show me

5:16

the return on marketing investment. I think, not

5:18

to say we'll never do one, right? I

5:20

think there are times when you do need

5:22

to do a Super Bowl ad, but you

5:24

have to play to win. If you weren't

5:26

winning and you made no impact, you

5:28

just flushed $7 million down

5:31

the drain. So I

5:33

wanna ask you about this idea of like what the

5:35

return on the investment is, right? Because, well,

5:37

first of all, I'm looking at different

5:39

sites today about the best and the worst ads.

5:42

And some sites, like I'm looking at the New

5:44

York Times and I'm looking at ad week and

5:46

like, some have the best

5:48

ones listed as the worst ones. Like

5:50

they're all over the map, you know?

5:52

So how do you know what your

5:55

return is? And is it

5:57

different for each marketer? Look,

5:59

the marketer. The most important thing you need to

6:01

do with the Super Bowl commercial are

6:03

three things. One, you need to

6:05

be memorable. Even an ad that someone

6:08

else might not like, someone might be like, oh,

6:10

that's the winner because it's memorable. If you

6:12

are an ad that no one remembers and

6:14

no one's talking about you, well, there's

6:16

no participation trophy. You lost. So

6:19

the second thing is you want it to be ownable. You

6:22

don't only want people to remember the ad,

6:24

but you want them to remember the brand

6:26

behind the ad. There are

6:28

a few ads that everyone is talking about

6:30

the ad, but no one is remembering the

6:32

brand. So what a waste

6:34

for that brand. So it's really important that

6:36

you're ownable. And then the third thing is

6:39

it's important to be relevant because

6:41

that relevancy allows you to not

6:43

only capture hearts and minds in

6:45

the moment, but it allows

6:47

you to leverage that moment to give your

6:49

brand momentum going into the rest of the

6:52

year. And so some brands did a really

6:54

nice job of that. All right.

6:56

So maybe you can give me an example of one

6:58

that you thought was particularly memorable. The

7:00

ad that I thought was memorable, ownable,

7:02

and relevant was the Dunkin' Donuts ad.

7:05

I thought they brought it home. You

7:07

know, seeing Ben Affleck

7:10

and his little boy band, I was like, this

7:12

is such a cool boy band. How do I become a groupie

7:14

for this boy band? And just seeing

7:16

them enjoy themselves. And talk about brand

7:18

placement, right? You could not miss that

7:21

that was a Dunkin' Donuts ad. Oh

7:24

yeah. They were wearing pink and orange all over the

7:26

place. They were wearing pink and orange everywhere, right? It

7:28

didn't have to be about coffee or donuts. But

7:31

you remember the brand. You remember the brand. It was

7:33

very ownable. And you know, you had

7:35

that kind of scene in the car before Ben

7:37

Affleck goes in where there's a Dunkin' Donut drink.

7:39

So you had that placement as well. And

7:42

then, you know, the line at the end

7:44

where JLo basically tells everyone else they could

7:46

go, but Tom Brady can say, I was on

7:48

the floor. I was literally dead on the floor.

7:51

It's so funny. It's so hilarious. And you know,

7:53

JLo used to be a judge on, I believe

7:55

it was American Idol. So it's also that funny

7:57

thing of, you know, Matt. Damon

8:00

and Ben Affleck kind of not getting an

8:02

invitation to stay but there was just so

8:04

many memes so many insider jokes

8:06

in there But also like just even if

8:09

you know nothing about Ben Affleck or JLo

8:11

or Dunkin Donuts you enjoyed that spot So

8:13

that was a really good spot and they've

8:15

continued to release cuts on

8:17

social media. Their social presence has

8:20

Exploded and so I really thought they did a

8:22

really nice job Yeah,

8:25

and they have some products. I guess they're gonna be selling

8:28

Like they thought it all the way through so it

8:30

keeps going exactly They really did a nice job of

8:32

threading that all the way through Another

8:34

ad that I thought did a good job was

8:37

the State Farm ad Right

8:39

with the like a good neighbor with

8:41

Arnold Schwarzenegger Look, they had

8:43

their clear value proposition like a good

8:45

neighbor State Farm is there they did

8:47

not deviate from that But what they did

8:49

was, you know, give a Red Bull

8:51

shot, right? They gave a shot of

8:54

adrenaline a shot of energy to that

8:56

tagline just kind of reenergizing it It

8:58

almost reminded me of that what's up

9:01

ad from like way back when right? So, you know

9:03

I can imagine you're gonna hear a lot of people

9:05

think like a good neighbor and like really

9:07

leaning into that and who doesn't love You

9:09

know a little Donny DeVito at the end there.

9:12

It was an interesting choice They made too

9:14

though not to like continue to play off

9:16

the Chiefs Cuz my homes and Andy Reid

9:18

have been in their ads back and Kelsey

9:20

over and over So they were like no,

9:23

we're not gonna go that way I thought

9:25

it was a smart choice because

9:27

you know There's already so much

9:29

energy around the Chiefs with Taylor Swift and

9:31

Travis and as a brand you don't want

9:33

to get lost Right. And so if

9:35

they leaned into that they probably would have gotten lost But

9:38

instead bringing Arnold Schwarzenegger and just kind

9:40

of going a completely different route I thought

9:42

that they were able to regain interest. They

9:44

did a nice job of not overplaying a

9:47

hand That's already worked instead. They dealt a

9:49

new hand and they won All

9:51

right. So I want to ask you about

9:53

are there ones that sort of were memorable

9:55

but didn't really connect the brand So

9:58

the team who adds I I thought they

10:00

were memorable, but maybe not for the

10:03

best reasons. In these high stakes

10:05

games, the ad has

10:07

to be enjoyable. I remember my kids were there

10:09

watching the game and they were loving the ads,

10:12

Mama, what do you think of this ad and that ad? And

10:14

of course they know Autodesk software used to make

10:16

a majority of these ads. They're like, Autodesk helped make

10:19

all these ads, Mama, what do you think? But I remember

10:21

when the Teamoo ad would come up, my son is

10:23

like, okay, I'm gonna go get another ice cream, I'm

10:25

gonna go get a piece of cake. And that was

10:27

a signal to me of, okay, these ads are just

10:29

not resonating. They ran it like three months. They ran

10:32

it like, what a missed opportunity I thought. So memorable,

10:34

but not for the good reason. It's like, if I

10:36

remember you as when I actually went to go take

10:38

a bathroom break or get some snacks, that's not exactly

10:41

why I want to remember it. The

10:43

ad that stuck in my head

10:45

as being the biggest groaner for

10:47

me was the Snapchat ad. Yeah.

10:50

That it was sort of about like, don't

10:52

do social media and then there's social media

10:54

site. I mean, I just like, who are

10:56

they talking to? They're trying

10:58

to make a distinction that I just

11:00

didn't feel like it landed for me. You

11:02

know, it's interesting, but I would say if

11:05

you hadn't mentioned it, I wouldn't even have

11:07

remembered it. So I don't think that ad was

11:09

memorable. But

11:13

also, I think to your point

11:15

of being relevant, right? We're just

11:17

we're sitting in the aftermath of

11:19

having had these social media CEOs

11:21

be summoned by Congress and question

11:24

about the impact of social media

11:26

on people's minds. And I thought,

11:28

here's an opportunity for you to

11:30

build trust. And instead, what I

11:32

would say is in some ways, it felt

11:34

like patronizing and like

11:37

it was not building trust, but instead taking

11:40

away from trust. Because it's like, you're not

11:42

taking me seriously and saying, how are you

11:44

going to make this safer? You're just telling

11:46

me that you're not social media, but you

11:48

are social media. And so that

11:50

felt like, you know, you're not

11:52

actually addressing the core concerns that people have.

11:54

So in some ways, it'll be interesting to

11:57

see if that did anything for them. But

11:59

I doubt that. would have. So

12:02

on the relevance front, most of the

12:04

ads were trying to be funny. You

12:07

know, there were a lot of

12:09

celebrities. Oh, gosh, there was not

12:11

a lot of effort to like

12:13

reach emotion other than humor. That

12:16

was a big observation that I had.

12:18

This is not the year about provoking

12:20

people. This is the year about playing

12:23

it safe. Right. And when

12:25

people want to play it safe, what

12:27

do they do? They lean into comedy,

12:29

safe comedy, or they lean into nostalgia.

12:31

And a lot of the ads were

12:33

all about nostalgia. If you even look

12:35

at the demographic of the celebrities that

12:37

were used, right, majority of the celebrities

12:39

that were used were, you know, not

12:41

the Gen Z-ers, right? It was, you

12:44

know, sort of millennial Gen X, even

12:46

boomers, right? It was a very different

12:48

demographic. So you saw people leaning into nostalgia,

12:50

you saw them leaning into humor. And I

12:52

think the Super Bowl always sets the tone

12:54

for the year. And it's interesting, right, because

12:56

we are in an election year here in

12:58

the United States. And I think what you're

13:01

hearing brand says we're staying out of it.

13:03

We are going to be playing it safe. We

13:06

are focusing on humor. We are focusing on

13:08

what unites us, not what divides us. We

13:10

want to stay out of anything

13:13

polarizing. Businesses are

13:15

not gonna say who they

13:17

are or deliver their personality in

13:19

a way that might set somebody

13:21

up. No, that you are hearing brands say loud

13:23

and clear, this is not the year. This is

13:25

the year to focus on what unites us. Bud

13:28

Light stayed very light. You

13:32

can say that again. They were so light. They

13:34

were so light. They were up in the air,

13:36

right? I mean, you throw in a, was it

13:38

a yellow lab? You throw in a dog in

13:40

there. I was like, okay, so they're clearly like

13:43

saying, hey, we don't want to be a part

13:45

of the conversation in that way. Like there was

13:47

very little risk taking, very little risk taking 60%

13:51

of the ads, you celebrities and 30% use

13:55

multiple celebrities. So there was very

13:57

much a, let's kind of coast off the wave

13:59

of celebrities. Let's play it safe. Let's

14:01

not take any crazy chances. I

14:04

will say some people got super creative

14:06

and interesting. And I really love the

14:08

Kawasaki ad because is there anything more

14:10

American than a mullet? I don't know

14:12

if there's anything more American than a

14:15

mullet. Driving by everything and turning

14:17

it into a mullet. Like who came up with

14:19

that idea? It was brilliant. And when you saw

14:21

that eagle get a mullet, my

14:23

kids were loving it. They were like, mommy, the eagle

14:25

is a mullet. I have to say

14:28

this. Those mullets were created using

14:30

our Autodesk Design and Make platform by

14:32

one of our amazing customers, The Mill.

14:36

So earlier you were talking about the reason that

14:38

you didn't want to buy an

14:40

ad, right? Which is that you couldn't own it.

14:42

You couldn't win. And I'm just

14:44

thinking about this parallel you're talking about, about you

14:46

want to be memorable, but at the

14:48

same time, it's not a time to take a

14:51

risk. Is that part of the reason

14:53

why you said like, I'm not going to

14:55

do this this year because in order to

14:57

be memorable, I have to take a risk, but it's not

14:59

a time to take a risk. If you're doing an

15:01

ad in the Super Bowl, you have to take a risk.

15:04

But I like to say you have to take what I

15:06

call a clear eyed risk. What is a clear

15:08

eyed risk? A clear eyed risk is where you

15:11

gather as much data as you can. You

15:13

strip away uncertainty and then you make a

15:15

decision with conviction. And

15:17

you know, going into this Super

15:20

Bowl, like knowing how brands were

15:22

going to play it safe, that

15:24

type of environment, you really have

15:26

to plus up your ad. Because

15:28

the worst thing in the world

15:30

is to spend that money and

15:32

not have a return. And

15:34

so as a CMO, right, I had

15:37

to kind of weigh all the things we have

15:39

to do with the money that we have. And

15:42

when I looked at what the return could be

15:44

versus other things, it just didn't make sense

15:46

for us this year. I'm not saying we'll

15:48

never do one because, you know, there might

15:50

be a year that it absolutely makes sense

15:52

for us, but you have to go in

15:55

with that calculus. And also you have to

15:57

think about the fact that you sometimes some of

15:59

these things. Foreign investment that may

16:01

not pay off Immediately accosted,

16:04

you know, sort of go

16:06

through time. Answer. You also

16:08

have to be thinking about where is

16:10

your business and it's life cycle a

16:12

what is needed there and then and

16:15

the right decision. Will vary your on.

16:17

Yeah right. Like I really loved

16:19

the Serov The Spot Michael Cera

16:21

you know I was like what

16:23

a brilliant spy It was so

16:25

funny and so smart and you

16:28

know was memorable. It was audible.

16:30

At it was relevant and right and so

16:32

I think that you had to go through

16:34

that rubric almost in a very scientific ways.

16:36

and if at the end of the day

16:38

you had a creative idea that sucked all

16:41

of those boxes or could deliver the are

16:43

white and go ahead. but. If you don't it

16:45

might be bigger that you say. You know this is

16:47

the year I'm going to be eating chips on the

16:49

couch and searing for other people. This is in the

16:51

year I'm gonna be in the arena as will step

16:54

in the arena. You better be ready to win. Last.

16:57

Year. I know you guys put money behind

16:59

some campaigns at the Oscars. yeah that were

17:01

very forgotten Realms. We? why our the We?

17:03

the lives That really? That that really works

17:06

for your tongue. Meserve the Hi I'm a

17:08

bit you think about to be our ally

17:10

and I'm curious. Like some brands get a

17:12

lot of pre work, there's a lot of

17:15

teaser activity sort of building up to the

17:17

Superbowl. Spend their some brands that are sort

17:19

of launching something baby that they're going to

17:21

do more of in the future. Like when

17:24

you think about these events what you did

17:26

it. The Oscars in which you see

17:28

others doing here like how do you

17:30

measure that are why Because the winning.

17:33

The. Day after isn't necessarily really winning for

17:35

your business, or is it is that all

17:37

it's about? You know, winning at the day

17:39

after the swap? I think you have to win for

17:41

your business and I think the. Way you win for

17:44

your business is you have to win. During

17:46

the Superbowl, you have the wind before the.

17:48

Suburbs are you need to win after. The Superbowl?

17:50

right? So I think the right winning

17:52

strategy looks at the pre, during, and

17:54

post. You. Need a three sixty

17:56

degrees integrated marketing strategy around, right?

17:58

Because one of the. The I

18:00

will my team and I love to

18:03

talk about his. We focus on brands

18:05

to demand to convert. I really believe

18:07

that brand desire fuels growth and so

18:09

the opportunity that the Superbowl gives you

18:11

his you are in front of over

18:13

a hundred and fifty million people tuning

18:15

in. I'm watching. And hundreds

18:17

of millions of people. Who are

18:20

going to participate in the conversation on

18:22

lights by the way from around the

18:24

world And so as a brand you

18:26

have to really think through what is

18:28

the strategy to kind of sure? Bram.

18:31

Desire. But then how do I make

18:33

sure that I can't take that desire

18:35

and use. It. To fuel growth, you want

18:37

to create desire and need for something that

18:39

you can actually fulfill. Not that somebody is

18:41

going to go somewhere else. Ever. Exactly the

18:43

way you describe the zeros like a zero

18:45

sum game. I'm not sure I buy that

18:48

all the way. and I think some of

18:50

these advertisers ten when even if you didn't

18:52

win Everything here is what I'll say, right?

18:54

I think looking at that rubric right, have

18:56

been memorable. Own a bull or our. This

18:59

is what mattered. Most see you was

19:01

being honorable and you are willing to give

19:03

away. You know some of the things around

19:05

be memorable been rather because that's all that

19:07

really mattered. A you know that that's what's

19:10

gonna make the most for your business. Good

19:12

for you right? I think at the end

19:14

of the day it's about really understanding who

19:16

your brand is, who your customers are on

19:19

what you're going to do. But I will

19:21

say at the end of the day they

19:23

are hard costs associated. Do this So if

19:25

you spend their money. Show. Me:

19:27

The role Me: Show me the Realm Me: So

19:30

mean a return on marketing investment. Show.

19:32

Me: The Role Me: Love that.

19:35

You. Need discipline alongside the magic

19:37

to make impact that matters coming

19:39

up after the break. Risk worth

19:41

taking beyond Seize Power Move and

19:44

the brands of San Francisco. Stay.

19:46

With us. Or. Is back in

19:48

a moment after a word from a premier

19:51

brand partner Capital One business. It

19:55

has something to do with the seven years

19:57

it's movie. Once. Every seven

19:59

years. Push myself to get

20:01

massively. Out of my comfort zone. We're.

20:04

Back with a partner Sarah of Capital One

20:06

Business. Seven. Years and her career.

20:08

She left India for the U. Seven.

20:11

Years later she changed employers. Now she was

20:13

getting that seven year itch again and she

20:15

wanted to broaden her skillset. So she pushed

20:17

herself into a field she had no experience

20:19

in. Marketing. I.

20:21

Was like okay, what to do something. That I'm never

20:24

done before. I. Knew that I

20:26

will be the least smartest person

20:28

in the room for a long,

20:30

long time. But. Apart a

20:32

new that of she approached her new position

20:35

with a beginner's mindset. She might be able

20:37

to get some much needed guidance so she

20:39

started asking questions. How

20:41

are different industries evolving in this

20:43

current world of marketing? One of

20:45

the challenges that marketers are facing

20:48

today. it's Were V today with.

20:50

An Argentinian. our business. Was.

20:53

A Customer expectations. And.

20:55

Finally what is needed to get there.

20:58

Have been asking the same questions again

21:00

and again and apologizing for sounding like

21:02

a broken record. Having a

21:04

beginner's mindset also means admitting that you don't

21:06

have all the answers. The.

21:08

Thrill is not just knowing the

21:10

right answer that thrill is and

21:13

finding ways to get. To the

21:15

right answer. This is being comfortable for to

21:17

with having skeptics in the room. That

21:19

was really important. And then second

21:21

was get down to work. For.

21:24

Would have harnessed team except her as a leader.

21:27

Will. Find out. Later in the show

21:29

saw part of Capital On Businesses Spotlight

21:31

on Business Leaders Following reads: Refocus played

21:33

it. Before

21:40

the break we heard Autodesk

21:42

cm a director at Now

21:44

She digs into risk worth

21:46

taking dissing about beyond say

21:48

be Nfl new soda brand

21:50

poppy and more plus conversations

21:52

worth leaning into and those

21:54

to avoid. Here we go.

21:57

So. if you're up a brand you're

21:59

a marketer You don't have money

22:01

for the Super Bowl. You don't

22:03

really have money for a slew

22:05

of celebrities, right? Like, the messages

22:07

you get from this event

22:09

kind of seem like, as you're talking about, it

22:11

sets the year, like, don't take too much risk.

22:14

But what do I do? How

22:16

do I get my message out there?

22:18

So first of all, I think the

22:20

message isn't don't take too much risk.

22:22

I think it's only take clarified risks,

22:25

right? Don't take risks you

22:27

don't need to take. And also be focused

22:29

on your value proposition. Customers and consumers, they're

22:31

not looking for their brands right now to

22:33

tell them who to be or how to

22:35

live. They're looking for their brands to tell

22:37

them how they're going to help them. And

22:40

then I think the third thing is don't forget

22:42

the magic, right? You see in the

22:44

Super Bowl, lots of people throwing lots of

22:47

things. And with the brands that, you

22:49

know, bubbled up to the top, the

22:51

brands that all of us are talking

22:53

about are those brands that had creativity.

22:55

But here's the thing, even if you're

22:57

not doing a Super Bowl ad, you can

22:59

lean into the conversation. So for example, for us

23:01

at Autodats, you know, the stadium that

23:04

the game took place in was actually

23:06

designed and made with our platform in

23:08

a record two and a half years

23:10

ahead of time and ahead of budget.

23:12

And so we went on social media

23:14

and celebrated our customers who had been

23:16

a part of that. So of course,

23:18

we didn't take up a spot in the Super Bowl,

23:21

but we were a part of the conversation. So I do

23:23

think that, you know, if your brand is in

23:25

any way connected, there's still a way to sort of lean

23:27

in. We were talking about things bubbling

23:29

to the top. And I was thinking

23:31

about the different ads about soft drink.

23:34

Yes. You know, that there were sort

23:36

of very humor oriented ones for Mountain

23:38

Dew and for Starry. But then there

23:40

was the Poppy ad, which was not

23:42

particularly, I don't know, surprising or funny,

23:44

but was very clear about what it

23:47

was about, right? There's a soda out

23:49

there that, you know, only has five

23:51

grams of sugar instead of 30. So

23:54

that's one that I think was ownable, but

23:56

maybe not as memorable and not as

23:59

relevant. Again, I come back

24:01

to this trifecta because I think they did

24:03

a really good job of the own ability.

24:05

Like you knew Poppy, right? It's like I

24:07

even had my kids be like, mommy, what

24:09

is Poppy? So like you knew what it was

24:11

about, but was it as memorable as it could

24:13

have been? Was it as relevant? I think they

24:15

could have worked on making it more memorable and

24:17

making it more relevant. The one that was most

24:20

emotionally effective for me, surprisingly, was

24:22

the NFL ad about the kid

24:25

in Africa. Yes, I couldn't agree

24:27

more. I really loved

24:29

the NFL ad, shutting Ghana with a

24:31

little boy. And I thought it was

24:34

really great. And the NFL is trying

24:36

to embrace more of a global audience.

24:38

Certainly the Africa WhatsApp chat groups,

24:41

which I'm part of a few, were popping

24:43

as a result of those ads. So I

24:45

do think that they did a nice job

24:47

of going to that target audience, reaching them,

24:50

and speaking to them in a way that

24:52

deeply resonated with them. You

24:54

also brought up earlier the point about

24:56

demographics and who you're trying to speak

24:58

to. Because some of the brands, I'm

25:01

looking at whatever, the Mountain Dew ad.

25:04

And I know they're not really targeting

25:06

me, right? Because I'm not their target

25:08

audience. But then I'm looking at the

25:10

BMW ad with Christopher Walken, and

25:12

I'm asking my kids, do you know

25:14

who Christopher Walken is? And

25:17

they're like, oh yeah, he was the guy in

25:19

Wedding Crashers, which is not the way I remember

25:21

him. But yes, he was in that movie, right?

25:24

Yeah, exactly. And that's why I said you have to

25:26

think about who's your target audience? And is this person

25:29

really going to resonate with that target

25:31

audience? That's also gonna play a factor

25:33

in who gets the return on investment.

25:35

Because if you click, but not with

25:37

the right people, then maybe that

25:39

expands your market, but maybe it doesn't. I

25:43

do have to say, as a Beyonce fan, I

25:46

absolutely love the Beyonce spot. Now,

25:48

I was watching with other members of

25:50

my family who are maybe not as

25:53

big Beyonce fans as myself, my husband.

25:56

And so I have to say, I

25:58

was watching him as I... watching myself and

26:00

I thought, I gotta be objective here. Look,

26:03

I think that the ad was actually excellent

26:05

for Beyonce because she just dropped new music.

26:07

It was a very mutually beneficial situation. In

26:09

fact, I had so many of my girlfriends

26:11

texting me. They were like, Dara, we are

26:13

country music fans now. She did a really

26:15

nice job of leaning into something that made

26:17

sense for her. And, you

26:19

know, I think Verizon also, right? The fact that

26:22

they got Beyonce in their ad is in itself

26:24

a statement because she is not the kind

26:26

of celebrity who appears in

26:28

a lot of ads, right? And so the fact

26:30

that you can land her in your ad in

26:33

itself is memorable. Well, I love

26:35

the way as a celebrity that she used

26:37

the ad for her own purposes. In the

26:39

same way that Taylor Swift, you know, winning

26:41

at the Grammys used it as an opportunity

26:43

for stuff. She's like, if I'm gonna fly

26:45

all the way from Asia for this, I'm

26:47

gonna let everybody know I got a new

26:49

album coming out. Exactly, exactly. It's like a

26:51

mutually beneficial situation. Two very smart, accomplished women,

26:53

you know? The year is off to a

26:55

great start. Are

26:58

you excited about the year ahead as a marketer

27:00

or with all of the political

27:03

backdrop? Are you like, I

27:06

just gotta watch where I step that

27:08

much more? I wish we could all

27:10

focus more on what unites us than

27:12

what divides us. You know, but the

27:14

reality is for any big business, you

27:16

are going to have customers, employees, and

27:18

partners on both sides of the aisle. And

27:21

so as a brand, you know, especially

27:23

as a marketer, you have to remember

27:25

that your personal views cannot be your

27:27

brand views. And I think

27:29

that is something that sometimes people struggle with.

27:32

But you have to be

27:34

able to be objective and you

27:37

have to make sure that you are truly

27:39

being inclusive. And truly being inclusive means

27:41

focusing on what unites us and embracing

27:43

all of your customers, right? Now, I'm

27:45

not saying as a brand, if there's

27:47

something that's deeply core to your value,

27:49

you're gonna shy away from that. For

27:51

example, for us at Autodesk, sustainability

27:54

is something that is a core part of

27:56

who we are, right? But there are other

27:59

myriad of topics. that don't make

28:01

sense for us. And so we're not gonna be

28:03

in those conversations. I'm curious, as

28:05

a leader these days, there's the imperative,

28:07

at least said all the time, bring

28:09

your full self to work, be more

28:11

transparent about who you are. But at

28:13

the same time, you

28:15

can't really bring everything because maybe some

28:17

of those things aren't the things that

28:19

the brand stands for, right? So like-

28:21

I agree. I have always said this, by the way.

28:24

I have been like, I do not bring my whole

28:26

self to work. There are parts of Dara that you

28:28

at work do not need to see. I'm gonna leave

28:30

them at home for my husband and my kids. The

28:33

part that I bring to work is

28:35

I do wanna bring my authentic self.

28:37

I wanna bring the best parts of

28:39

myself. I wanna be an

28:42

empathetic leader. But the reality is all

28:44

of us have personal views and

28:46

personal opinions because we are humans.

28:49

And it is really important that at

28:51

work we are objective and

28:53

that we are as much as

28:56

possible not using our own personal

28:58

agenda to determine what

29:00

drives us strategy in our business. Look, hey,

29:02

I think you need to bring a good

29:04

part of yourself to work, but there are

29:06

probably parts you need to keep at home.

29:09

And I think the smartest thing as a leader you

29:11

could do is figure out what those parts are that

29:13

need to be at home and keep at home. So

29:16

San Francisco lost the game. Devastating,

29:18

devastating. I know, I know. For

29:20

the brand of San Francisco versus

29:23

the brand of Kansas City, as cities

29:25

where just winning these games matter, how

29:27

does that play out? You know, I

29:29

really, really, really wanted San Francisco to

29:31

win, I can't even tell you. I

29:34

threw a Super Bowl party. I don't

29:36

usually throw Super Bowl parties. My whole

29:38

family, we were dressed to go to

29:40

San Francisco 49. And we had gone

29:42

to church earlier that day. And it

29:44

was so funny because everybody was dressed

29:46

in the San Francisco 49ers costume.

29:49

San Francisco has had such a

29:52

trying time, right? We've

29:54

gotten a little bit of a bad rap lately. And

29:57

I felt like this was our chance

29:59

to... sort of start

30:01

our comeback narrative. And

30:03

so that last 10 seconds of

30:06

overtime with the chief cleaning, my

30:08

son came, mommy, we lost. But

30:10

I think we needed it more than the chief. But

30:13

you know, I like Taylor Swift, you know,

30:15

I'm a fan of the whole thing. So,

30:17

you know, we cried a little

30:19

bit that we got ourselves together, we look at

30:22

Taylor and Travis happy on the field and we're

30:24

like, okay, all is well. Well,

30:27

Dara, this has been great. This has been great.

30:29

Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it.

30:31

Well, thank you so much for having me, Bob.

30:33

This was such a blast. There's nothing more fun

30:35

as a marketer than getting a chance to kind

30:37

of debrief. So thank you. I

30:40

always have fun talking to Dara, not

30:42

just because she speaks her mind, but

30:44

because she's such a disciplined thinker when

30:46

it comes to business. It's

30:49

so easy for all of us to

30:51

get caught up in emotion, to measure

30:53

ourselves against others to want to win

30:55

at all costs. But there's

30:57

a right time and a wrong

30:59

time to act. Business is a

31:01

long game and having a game

31:04

plan that adapts as conditions change

31:06

and improves when you hit overtime.

31:08

That's what ultimately succeeds. I'm

31:11

Bob Safian. Thanks for listening. And

31:14

now a final word from our brand

31:16

partner, Capital One Business. There's

31:21

a road from Tbilisi to western

31:23

Georgia lined with women that have

31:25

burns up and down their arms,

31:28

and they're all making a cinnamon

31:30

honey raisin bread. They're all competing and they're

31:33

holding a piece of the bread and waving

31:35

it at you in the hopes that you'll

31:37

stop at their hut. We're

31:40

back one more time with restaurant owner Rose

31:42

Preffitt, and those women who baked bread in

31:44

backyard ovens had given her an idea. I

31:47

really, really wanted to have a

31:50

fire outside, but

31:52

the health department shot me down hard. But

31:55

Rose had the fortitude to pursue her goal, and

31:58

that meant rethinking how she'd get the there. What

32:00

if she opened a second restaurant, one

32:03

that could accommodate an indoor fire? I

32:06

walked into this 140-year-old warehouse. I saw

32:08

super high ceilings and this steam shaft

32:10

that was very rusted, but I had

32:12

a feeling went through the roof. I

32:14

was like, I think I can put

32:16

the fire there. Midon's

32:18

charred eggplant and scorched flatbread have won

32:20

the restaurant its first Michelin star. Rose

32:23

has since added a third restaurant and a

32:25

wine importing business to her portfolio, and

32:28

she wouldn't have been able to do it without

32:30

grit, says Lauren Tresco of Capital One Business. Rose's

32:33

story is such an inspiring example of how

32:36

important it is to have tenacity when it

32:38

comes to building a business. So

32:40

many elements need to align in order

32:42

to scale your company, and navigating that

32:44

journey takes fortitude. Capital

32:47

One Business is proud to support entrepreneurs and

32:49

leaders working to scale their impact. From Fortune

32:51

500s to first-time business

32:53

owners. For more resources to

32:55

help drive your business forward,

32:58

visit capitalone.com/Business Hub. Again,

33:00

that's capitalone.com/Business Hub.

33:03

As with every ad on Masters of Scale,

33:05

the entrepreneurs you just heard from were real

33:07

and unscripted. Because Capital One is

33:09

a financial institution, it's important to them

33:11

to be transparent about their relationship with

33:13

the entrepreneurs we interview. Some of

33:15

these entrepreneurs are Capital One customers and some

33:17

are. Capital One did compensate all

33:20

of them for participating in this campaign. Thank

33:48

you. and

34:00

Timothy Lu Lee, mixing

34:02

and mastering by Aaron Bastinelli and

34:05

Brian Pugh. Our CEO

34:07

and Chairman of the Board is Jeff Furman.

34:10

Wait what was co-founded by June Cohen

34:12

and Darren Tripp. Special

34:15

thanks to Jodine Dorsay,

34:17

Alfonso Bravo, Tim Cronin,

34:20

Erica Flynn, Sarah Tartar,

34:22

Katie Glazing, Mary Elcaraca,

34:25

Chinemayo Zukwena, Colin Howard,

34:27

Brandon Klein, Sami Aputa,

34:30

Kelsey Saison, Luisa Velez,

34:33

Nikki Williams and Justin

34:35

Winslow. Visit Masters of

34:37

scale.com to find the transcript for

34:39

this episode and to subscribe to

34:41

our email newsletter. Chet

34:50

TPT, I produce a podcast called

34:52

Masters of Scale and

34:54

I'm looking for a way to get listeners

34:56

to leave us a five-star

34:58

review on Apple Podcasts.

35:01

Do you have any suggestions? Absolutely.

35:05

One effective way is to engage with

35:07

your listeners directly during your episodes. Explain

35:10

to them how much a five-star review can support

35:12

your show. What about

35:14

to try to convince listeners to

35:17

share one of their favorite episodes

35:19

with somebody in their life? Do

35:21

you have any suggestions for that? Certainly.

35:25

People love to share content that has

35:27

made an impact on them. So remind

35:29

your listeners how sharing an episode can

35:31

start meaningful conversations with friends or help

35:34

others discover insights they've benefited from. Would

35:37

it be okay if I use maybe our

35:39

conversation as a segment on the show? That

35:42

sounds like a creative approach. Using

35:45

a meta-conversation about engaging

35:47

your audience as a segment could

35:49

be...